June monthly poll

For the month of June we thought it would be interesting to see if you think it'd be possible for computers at some point in the future to enslave human kind. Although this month's poll is abnormal I think it could generate some interesting comments and thoughts on the topic. Feel free to post why you believe this is or is not possible, or because of our dependence on computers and technology do you think we're already enslaved to computers?

All past monthly polls and results can also be found on the Computer Hope poll page.

IMHO...we'd have to give computers total control...and I really don't see this happening...not in my lifetime, anyway.

Myself enslaved? I'm not sure. Addicted? Yes I am. (40yrs+ in the environment).
Technology wise, see how far we got.
In the late 40's we got the transistor, then IBM Punch Cards. Also the TV.
Now look around, nice Laptops, Desktops and Network. On this site of the Globe,  mostlikely every business or institution has some form of computerized system. Imagine a Reservation system or Aviation without them boxes. Yes, I think we are already enslaved.

[Moderator]

I was debating something similar to this with a well known AI Programmer who programmed a bot named Mathetes.

My question was:
Can computers ever reach a point (AI Wise) where it would be immoral to turn them off or destroy their data on purpose?

Pistos (Mathetes' creator) returned that:
Since they have no soul [and will never have one], no. It cannot be consider immoral.

A computer could potentially be programmed to enslave a person, by commanding them and, say, shocking them on denial, but, essentially, a human would have to do that in the first place.

AI wise, I dont think you could possibly attach a shocking device to a computer, and teach it through means of AI to take command of a person. I just dont think AI will ever get to that point.
Sure, I have in fact seen some pretty impressive AI systems, but, they can only "learn" on their own to a certain point.

I think that AI programming will progressively get better, and that we will have new methods of allowing a computer to "learn" and even potentially program itself.


For some reason, this topic reminds me of the time that "other" website was copying our posts without permission, and we all started putting copyright notices in our signatures.

[Global Moderator]

Can computers ever reach a point (AI Wise) where it would be immoral to turn them off or destroy their data on purpose?

Computers are developing very fast and i'm sure a something will be developed soon with some sort of intelligence, or at least awareness. I'm not sure they could countermand their own programming though...

I believe it has already happened or happening because we as humans are allowing the co-dependence levels to grow.... and grow.... and grow....

 

My computer went belly up after an upgrade and then I had no electricity for 24 hours.  I was jonesin', man!  I needed my PC!

My computer went belly up after an upgrade and then I had no electricity for 24 hours.  I was jonesin', man!  I needed my PC!

That could be the July poll.

"How long could you go without use of a computer/games console/Mobile phone etc. for personal reasons"

I would say a week for myself.

after then i would start to deteriorate... rapidly!

Yeah good suggestion I'll do that. However, to make it more specific will probably do just computer, e.g: How long have you gone without getting on a computer?

[Moderator]

Yeah good suggestion I'll do that. However, to make it more specific will probably do just computer, e.g: How long have you gone without getting on a computer?

Umm... gosh...
Even when I was a kid, I was using the computer. Windows 3.11, you have failed me!

In the last month, I would have to say I havent gone more than four days without a computer (Memorial Day Weekend camping trip...) and and that was probably the longest I went since the start of this year. (Depressing, I know...)

hasnt it already happened?

I failed to see this poll . . .
I don't think computers will enslave humans.  We may become dependent on them, if we aren't already, but I don't think they will enslave us.
Remember:

A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. – Emo Philips

We are calling this era the Computer Age.

Computer is in everything we do today that has to do with result.
Computer is in control we make them does not mean we have control.

[Global Moderator]

We are calling this era the Computer Age.

Computer is in everything we do today that has to do with result.
Computer is in control we make them does not mean we have control.

Computers also keep people alive.

its enslaved me aready! i use it every chance i get!

I think the better question would be, What If someone,somehow, disabled our ability to use our computers, labtops and or the web. Can you Imagine all the functions this would stop. Just think how dependent we and our government are on computers!!

Addicted we might already be but enslaved?  Nah.   

We will fight them on the beaches, we will fight them in the hills.....we will never ever surrender!!!

Never give up! Never surrender!

[Global Moderator]

Never give up! Never surrender!

Galaxy Quest?

I voted on 'will never happen'

[Global Moderator]

I actually haven't voted yet...   

Old man you need to add a new character to that comics of yours.

[Global Moderator]

I will defiantly make new comics next two week. Lemmie finish my science and maths tests first.

 

You have to have a female character in that, ok?

[Global Moderator]

Good idea...

Computers made our life a little easier. Made our world smaller. But I dont think they can enslave us...

HELLO

[Global Moderator]

HELLO

Hello, Pawan. 

HELLO WORLD

'Course you can program puny little lines like "a machine may never harm a human" or whatever, but someday an AI will be smart (or dumb) enough to judge his own goal above that rule.
I guess military droids will be the first to mess things up, probably friendly fire someday. But eventually it's perfectly possible for some future "intelligent" battlebot to decide something that's not good for our health.

Don't think humans are wise enough to never make an AI capable of such decisions.
And don't think humans are smart enough to keep such an AI away from a potentally harmfull machine.

Anyway, by the time humanity is extinct, we won't have the environment to worry about 

Never gonna happen. Not unless the computers could take away our will to be free or our ability to resist through fighting or inaction.

Totally true, but i think it's perfectly possible that even when the allready legendary human vs droid war WOULD start and we fight back, droids could outman, outgun and outsmart us.
Nothing is sure though much is possible. Especially as long as the opposite isn't proved ..

Totally true, but i think it's perfectly possible that even when the allready legendary human vs droid war WOULD start and we fight back, droids could outman, outgun and outsmart us.
Nothing is sure though much is possible. Especially as long as the opposite isn't proved ..

That's ok, just generate an EMP large enough and wipe them all out

[Global Moderator]

Totally true, but i think it's perfectly possible that even when the allready legendary human vs droid war WOULD start and we fight back, droids could outman, outgun and outsmart us.
Nothing is sure though much is possible. Especially as long as the opposite isn't proved ..

That's ok, just generate an EMP large enough and wipe them all out

Time to get my short-ranged Nuke   

Just generate an EMP large enough and wipe them all out

You are a genius! I will someday tell my grandchildren to keep an über EMP device ready at all times 

NUKE THE WHOLE PLANET!

Sure, we'll probably end up killing ourselves and every other living thing on the planet except the cockroaches, but they'll get mutated into super intelligent roaches who will take over our newly created wasteland.

[Global Moderator]

Woah Ugly!

I've seen that hing on Discovery channel, it's a roach with it's back glued in place. It's foeet on a "trackball" that controls the cart that the whole rig is on. Pretty cool project

really nothing to worry about tho 

It's true! I'm already a slave to mine!

[recovering disk space -- attachment deleted by admin]

I don't know, I just did a search on Google for cockroach pictures and that one came up, so I threw it in. 

LOL really if you look at the world it already has been taken over by computers. look and the gaming industries it is not just PS3, XBOX360, and the Wii. it is also the computers and the companies are doing this because they know sooo many people have computers and not nearly as many have gaming consoles.

I agree with computeruler! I'm also a slave to my boss

Spider
 

I believe the US army will create man controlled battle droids.
These will be controlled by pro gamers.
But it will only take the enemy to hack the wifi link and return fire on friendlys.
Could turn out quite bad.
there are already devices which are not effected by emps.
So it will be a battle of hacking the battle droids to eliminate the opposition.
This would make a great game.

Dear users,
 
                    Once Lord Kelvin and Dr.Albert Einstein were both skeptical about the birth and advent of quantum mechanics...but see fnrdzz what happened...dats , months, years went by...and quantum mechanics became a part of our lives.....in the same way...AI, it's birth, it's advent, it's progress can't be underestimated for god's sake at least......we will see in the coming years we will be having a time machine, a usual phenomenon of teleportation, and of course computers taking control of ourselves......


PPL SAYING THAT COMPUTERS MAY NOT BECOME THEIR MASTERS....YOU SEE ALFRED NOBEL WAS SURE PPL WON'T USE GRANITE CAUSE IT'S DESTRUCTIBLE...THEY WOULD FEAR THEM BUT THEY WERE USED TO THE EXTENT OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS....that's y AI is something for which computer scientists are gettignmad today because they like challenges....

[Global Moderator]

I guess the idea is that anything can happen.

I believe the US army will create man controlled battle droids.
These will be controlled by pro gamers.

Nice Idea 

Anyone seen Terminator? The matrix? Played Earthsiege? In each case humans created super AI that took over. Not sure if it would happen in our life time but humans are dumb enough to do it. Someone will come up with the bright idea of makeing AI in contol of the Nukes.

never seen that movie but some will probably be stupid enough to do that

[Global Moderator]

never seen that movie but some will probably be stupid enough to do that

You've never seen Terminator or Matrix??   

nope cant say as a i have

THE ALIENS PC, IBM, APPLE, MICROSOFT, DELL, ON AND ON....has cloned us!  i have seen a progession of look at me in the "monitor".  i  encounter being told, you can sign up on line, directed by phone to apply on line.   colleges, utilities, government, banks, consumer chains, either demand you apply, sign-up, or pay by, or seek answers, locations, and such by computer.   the new slogan is: ' look me in the "monitor" ' . next generation of home addresses is going to be (your steet name and IP) the new virus. the "spy-where" the mal.gov.where,  is in the little black box.  we can order pizza, e-mail the pres. get a tax refund, even escorts, sell our home, buy any product, soon well be chatting, with the pres (we can the first lady). and the police, boarder patrol, IRS, our e-mail addresses are standard "home residence".  it's almost reality, cameras going up everywhere, so WE can see, report, and monitor the streets, the boarder, our neighbour without leaving home.  the boarder patrol can slack off patrolling, wait for an unpaid, uninsured, no retirement plan, joy spycam junky to see an object , or a caravan moving across the lens and give them a hint to poke around.  police can see you run a red light from their office, patrol car, girlfriends, and write you a ticket.  we are fighting wars in the middle east with computers soldiers are in foxholes, tanks, desert, mountains "attatched to a unit" the computer.  i could go on and on ......yes we ARE inslaved to computers, guess what's next. ......yes, first they have to finish posting spyware they already have the monitors in place.  sad to say the government has millions of free computers writing to them everyday! one day the pres may say "hey" and i can finally say "byte me"
HERES LOOKING AT YOU
RUBY

It is more probable that we might become enslaved to a group or institution or government through the use of computers. 

As far as artificial intelligence (AI) itself, it's possible it could happen, someday.  (I know -- that's really going out on a limb! )

There's a lot of "if's," of course.  Does AI require sentience (self awareness)?  How is AI achieved -- by a specific type of programming, or another method?  (It has been suggested that if you give a system enough information, and enough ways to 'cross-reference' that information, you'll reach a "critical mass" kind of stage where the computer will then be intelligent.  (I don't necessarily agree, but it's been suggested.

Most of the fiction I've read/seen suggests the danger isn't so much in the system itself, as in the inability to turn off such a system, or at least the problem of turning off such a system.  "2001:  A Space Odyssey"'s HAL9000 computer, self-aware, and with its own agenda, is a good example.  "Dave, my mind is going..."  Martin Caidin's "The God Machine" pits the hero against a defense computer with control over the defense, and the access, to its own nuclear power supply.

Well, I guess they already won me all over... cause I can't live without them (and sincerely I don't know if I would like to anyway)

I believe we are beginning to be enslaved. I only say this, because everything we do is on computers now a days. Taxes, car shopping, music buying, talking, picture editing...Etc. You name it, its probably done on computers or could be done on computers. And even ipods, zunes, televisions, other electronics-- Are all sorts of computers. We depend on them for information and entertainment. Its both a good and bad thing. Its a convenience , but if they become to reliable, what's gonna happen if the whole inter web crashes? Life will be hectic. Unless we begin to back things up with paper documents, are world will be at a loss.

i would die without my computer die of bordum that is

I think everybody is confusing enslavement with dependence. If that was the case then we are all slaves to air,water, and food, since we need all three. But since they don't emit any sort of conscious thought they couldn't possibly exercise any control over us, on account of being lifeless.

Same with the computer. A computer can only do what it was programmed to do. In order to enslave humans, there would have to be a code branch:

If (humans <= computers) Or (Year(Now))>=2100 then
    TakeControlOfTheworldSomehowandenslavea race(RACE_HUMAN)
End if

that is, the programmer would need to conciously add either the codepath or decision data whereby the computer would enslave the human race. not gonna happen. Sure, it makes a great theme for movies, but the fact is that regardless of all fiction depicting it, computers will never exhibit conscious thought, and if they do, not at a level high enough to decide to overthrow us as the dominant er... beings? on the planet.

Basically- everything a computer does is programmed at some point, you can't just flip a switch, or put a few transistors here and there to give them conscious thought. The fact that a human (or Microsoft Wizard...) would need to create the source means that either the code will have a lot of //:TODO comments (in the case of the wizard), or will simply be a subset of human conciousness, or any conciousness, for that matter. a Single (or, really any number) or programmers would not be able to create a accurate representation of a human brain to allow for consciousness, let alone the ability to make decisions that aren't simply a large Case statement (at it's core).

[Global Moderator]

Unless a computer is programmed to learn.

Quite a lot of people have indeed successfully created robots/machines/computers than can learn (especially robots).

ahh, they can be programmed to learn, but can they be programmed to have reason? The fact that it is so prevalent in movies essentially dismisses it.

Ah, but teachers are finding the inability to produce either effect in the classroom! Yet, I predict their charges will one day take over the world. 

The one big mistake people make is to think that consciousness or intelligence is needed in order to enslave humanity. It is not. (see above about teachers)
An adaptive AI could try to wipe or control humanity based on unconscious and unintelligent programming that states a certain goal should be achieved. Though it is more likely to happen with an AI that can "learn". It may someday just learn itself that it's goal has higher priority than human life
Question is will a robot have the capability to do something serious? A PC, even when left on, is harmless as soon as the internet is unplugged. Unless it blows itself up and you get some small cuts from CPU shrapnel 
If some doofus would be dumb enough to implement AI into weapon systems it gets more serious... Guess what, that already happened, now just make them adaptive and it gets lethal.
How far it possibly escalates depends on how for example weapons are linked to computers and internet in the future. If every gun and missile in the US gets linked to the internet we're in complete danger. If some guns and missiles in the US get linked to the internet we're in some danger. etc..

Not exactly but a remote example is that some "smart" adaptive protection system in a nuclear power plant denies humans access to the facility since they can cause human errors. Examples like this are likely to get more and more radical since AI and robots are used more and more, and get more sophisticated.

(Yay! The spell check could only come up with doofus to correct;D)

I think computers are now slowly by slowly enslaving the humanbeings i always get difficulties as a student to do my daily job without it.

Ok,  I would like to see this nuclear plant that denies humans access to it.  Last time I checked Humans maintain and update and manage things in a nuclear plant.  Yes,  there are certain calculations that are unalterable for fear of human error,  but there are always precautions like that in major systems.  However,  in a station that is almost fully automated,  It can still be shut down,  Like to add a new reactor or fix the current reactor for example.  And this is the key.  No matter how automated and self aware machines get,  There is always the idiot proof answer,  unplug it. (i mean that figuratively)

besides I think we've got a while before a computer can become self aware.  I've heard that even the most advanced computers in the world are still only equivalent of one human brain cell.  If this is the case,  It will be a while before a computer can ponder it's own existence.  I'm not going to hold my breath

A compelling topic though

If we get far enough into quantum computing, optical storage and AI we will surely be enslaved ! Robots will be able to save and access more information that us. At some point we will be inferior to them and we'd be a reason for a good riddance...

Just a matter of time ;-) If not in 100 years then in 200 years.

Ok,  I would like to see this nuclear plant that denies humans access to it.

My example was fictional, but in the fiction, once the computer complex was built, control of the reactor, and complex security, was handed over to the computer, with the thought that the computer would not be subject to human failings.  Once activated, no guards, no one to override the systems, which were designed to protect from outside attack.  No one counted on the computer misinterpreting its instructions to insure its own survival at all costs, by killing friend and foe alike.

It has already happened, you can send your personal thanks to Tom of Myspace for that.

weres the july monthly pole

[Global Moderator]

weres the july monthly pole

The poll is a new stickey

http://www.computerhope.com/forum/index.php/topic,60432.0.html

o there it is thanks

[Global Moderator]