A CH Social Chatroom

[Mod & Malware Specialist]

I'm pretty much against chats.  I've always seen it as a bad atmosphere; they tend to bring out a certain attitude and flame wars are often in abundance.  And if we wanted the chat to follow as closely to the forum rules as possible, we would need moderators available at peaks times (everyone and their grandma knows how to get around bots), which isn't really ideal.  And if it's going to use the existing mods, you can count me out.  Heh.

The chat on Saviour PC has a great interface and I have had to use it a few times for certain discussions.  If you're going to have a chat feature, that's probably one of the best ones to use.  But I'm still quite anti-chat.

If you think it would benefit the forum, then go for it, but I really don't see the need for it.  Personally, I think it further promotes the idea of this being a social forum, which brings in a lot of useless members who don't contribute.  And even worse, some of these members try to contribute when they are completely incapable of doing so.  This sort of nonsense has increased significantly since the induction of the Off Topic forum and I think it would continue to increase with the addition of a chat.

[Moderator]

Chris, I think that you have a point about non-contributing members.
Do you think problems would occur with posts outside the Off Topic board? Or do you think it would just encourage more off topic activity?

I went to check out Steve's chatroom, he invited me to go see it, and he showed me some of the features.
I showed him a chat that handles IRC, which in some ways was similar to the Flash chat he had. There were some things I did not like about SaviourPC Chat Room:
* It is flash, and that can mean resources. Also, not all users use flash, some people choose to disable it.
* The interface was a little iffy... I clicked something and suddenly all the windows separated and started covering up half the chat, I did eventually get it back. The interface nearly went beyond my screen, and I cant imaging what it would be like on an 800x600 screen, but, then again, it might re-adjust itself too.
* I thought that figuring out how to enter and exit rooms, and private chats was difficult to some extent, but, after a while, I did get the hang of it.

Pros of his chat that I saw were:
* It had a very IRC like interface, in fact, I had to test it to see if maybe it was actually IRC (which it was not).
* For the most part, if you are just chatting in one place, its relatively easy to use.

I'd like it if everyone could visit this address:
http://chat.tufat.com/flashchat5/stateless/
Just enter a random username, no password, and click the Login button. Take a look around, try some things out.

After that, visit www.computerhope.com/zero/
Click the "Your name or alias" box, and enter something random, and press "Enter" (feel free to talk to Zer0, he's a public bot, but please don't abuse him or swear)
I personally like this chat interface, since its CGI so you dont need any extra "addons" or "ActiveX" programs, and it is very simple. Also, since its IRC, you can download any client you choose, and use it to connect to the chat.

Another great client that is web based is PJIRC.
See it here:
http://www.pjirc.com/demo.php
You can check out the different versions of PJIRC, on ComputerHope, it would be possible to have a selection of clients that you could use. Personally, I think that PJIRC is one of the best clients, its very easy to use, and supports right click on usernames, and is also a clean interface.


Mibbit is a more aestetically appealing web based IRC program, check it out here:
http://embed.mibbit.com/?server=irc.blitzed.org&channel=%23zero&noServerNotices=true&noServerMotd=true&forcePrompt=true


What do I mean by "You can install your own client"?
IRC is a protocol like HTML in a way. Its like how you can have more than one browser to use the Internet, which way do you like it? FireFox or Internet Explorer?
There just happens to be a FireFox IRC Chat addon called "ChatZilla" which is a great IRC client.

I feel like I am having an allergic reaction to something.

[Mod & Malware Specialist]

Hmm, I've never experienced any problems with the FlashChat, but I have also only used it a few times.  You have some valid concerns, so perhaps it's not the best for what you want.  I do still think it's quite handy, though.

Chris, I think that you have a point about non-contributing members.
Do you think problems would occur with posts outside the Off Topic board? Or do you think it would just encourage more off topic activity?

It would most definitely encourage more Off Topic activity, I have no doubt about that.  And that's just fine.  Although I do not really like the Off Topic section much, I understand why Nathan wants it available to us.  However, having these social outlets seems to promote off-topic conversation and maybe it's just me, but it seems like these conversations and obscure references leak out into the other sections more and more.

And it has become a spawning ground for certain members (I won't name anyone) who think that just because they've been accepted in the forum games, it gives them some sort of power on the forums.  One user in particular (still not naming anyone) has at least 2000 or so posts and has contributed nothing.  But because of his high post count, he seems to think he's capable of helping out users in need when he shows little or no knowledge in computers and can barely put a sentence together.  I have yet to read one post by this member that made any sense, and all he does is confuse the people who are coming here for help.

I'm seeing more and more members like this each week.  They have just as much right to be here as we do, but they have the wrong idea about this forum and how it works.  We're not all experts and it's understandable for someone to have a lot to learn.  But it's not understandable for them to continually try to help with issues when they still don't know anything about it!  I know very little about Apple and Linux, so I rarely try to help in those sections because I know it should be left to someone with actual experience.


Anyway...sorry, that's the end of my rant.  I got a little off-track there, but it is a strong concern of mine.  We were hoping that the Off Topic forum would greatly reduce the amount of off-topic conversation in the help forums, but I honestly don't feel that it worked out that way.  I feel like it has created a certain mentality among some users, and I worry that it may be worsened by a chat.  But hey, it could just be me.  I'm not going to boycott or go on a hunger strike (yeah right!) if a chat room is added, but I was asked about my concerns and this is what they are.  And yes, I know I'm just a crotchety prude.

[Global Moderator]

I haven't read all the other posts in this topic, only part of CBMatt's last post (i'm busy now, not at home) but I think maybe users with over like 300-600 should have access to chat, maybe one for 1000+ too, I don't know. Just an Idea.

[Mod & Malware Specialist]

Well, I don't think that will change anything in regards to my concerns, but it may be a good idea to have some sort of restriction like that.  I have no idea how easy/hard it is, but I do believe it can be done.

[Moderator]

Well, I don't think that will change anything in regards to my concerns, but it may be a good idea to have some sort of restriction like that.  I have no idea how easy/hard it is, but I do believe it can be done.

I would guess that if we went of a PJIRC client built into ComputerHope, it would be possible, but, anyone who had the link could join.

I dont think it would be a very good thing to just restrict people, we do have a lot of contributors who will ask a question, and then validly answer quite a few more questions to even it out. If its someone causing problems, it is possible to just switch, in your mind, to a "read only" mode on them.
But, I do see what you (Chris and Carbon) mean.

[Web moderator]

Zylstra: You asked to give you info on what I said about the IRC chatrooms being exposible to hacking and malware... Try these links:

http://software.silicon.com/security/0,39024655,39116592,00.htm
http://www.builderau.com.au/news/soa/Pillow-talking-bots....
http://www.hackinthebox.org/modules.php?op=modload....

You might find some info in there....

That public bot is very smart, by the way...

[Global Moderator]

Back at home now, but one thing I want to mention before reading this loooing topic, we should have a Mini-Bar, if you know what I mean 

[Global Moderator]

Ok. I've read it.

I don't think we need multiple chatrooms as Zylstra said, it's just general chat.

I said you might need multiple rooms, because if you have, say, 200 people chatting at the one time.... You won't be able to read what people are saying because it will be scrolling so fast...

Here is an idea, what about we have say thee chatrooms. If one chatroom starts to fill up to about 70%, the second chatroom opens and there will be a notification in the current chatroom saying it has been opened.
If the activity in the chatrooms fall below 30%, they could be merged into one chatroom.



As for my idea as restrictions, it will also help to prevent Spamming and abuse.
For example, someone could register into the forums and creating havoc on the system.

I like that thing someone brought up about a month ago with the new SMF Style or something, where Mods can mute a user.
I forgot the details.



About IRC's.....I know my Nintendo DS has a Homebrew app to get on IRC's.

For those of you concerned about hacking on IRC, that's not a problem.
If the IRC server you connect to is running Unreal (like mine does), then your hostname is cloaked, so instead of this:
66-191-101-87.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com
you see this:
rnd-B9B3226A.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com
The only way someone could possibly get ahold of your IP is if you accepted a DCC. And that's not a good idea unless you trust the person.
So don't worry about hacking.
And yes, i would most definitely use one if we had one!
Oh, and Zylstra wanted me to mention that I run an IRC network.

[Web moderator]

For those of you concerned about hacking on IRC, that's not a problem.

Are sure about this? I disagree. I found a website that shows you how to do it, but I'm not posting it.

For those of you concerned about hacking on IRC, that's not a problem.

Are sure about this? I disagree. I found a website that shows you how to do it, but I'm not posting it.

It's possible. but what are the odds of it happening? I've been using IRC for 3 years now, and I've never once run into anything like that.

[Moderator]

For some reason, I feel slightly overwhelmed all the sudden (not by this post, but from everything around me) So bare with me as I ramble on and on about things that dont make a lick of sense.

Being how IRC works, its easy to create another chatroom.
I really dont think that it would be necessary, but, it still could be done. Since we wont be accepting support in this chatroom, I doubt that we will have problems with overloads of users.

Well, we have 6 people that would say they would use it. If you know anyone on ComputerHope who has not seen this topic, go ahead and feel free to give them a link and ask them to vote.

What this website suggests:
http://www.builderau.com.au/news/soa/Pillow-talking-bots-latest-Russian-malware-threat/0,339028227,339284439,00.htm
Is that the bot convinced people to give out their information. Its like those stupid spam emails you get, with the hot guy there asking you for your home address, phone, and name.
Do you reply to those emails? Of course not! The same thing could happen via. PM on CH Forums. You just have to ignore it.

All methods of stealing information over IRC is capibile of happening via Email, other web chats, and messenger. Its always a matter of: "Do I really tell them? Or not?"

EXACTLY! Thank you, Zylstra.
Really, any hacking that could go on on IRC requires user intervention.
Or, using an older IRCd that doesn't cloak hostnames.

[Web moderator]

User intervention maybe, but they mightn't know it's going on....

Look at what some viruses can do:
http://www.threatexpert.com/report.aspx?uid=ecb1f877-d43c-4ee9-8c57-e8baacf1fafa
http://www.threatexpert.com/report.aspx?uid=ad2fcf72-2bf3-480b-afc0-9bfe1d9c9711
http://www.threatexpert.com/report.aspx?uid=57ba898d-e16c-49e6-8d89-476a2db8d863
http://www.threatexpert.com/report.aspx?uid=c65ee866-5b26-4a10-b5e2-d1469c96e565