How to boot XP from a SATA disk with an IDE adapter?

[giomach]

I have XP SP3 and my system disk was giving trouble, so I cloned it to a new disk (using Casper) and replaced the old disk with the new one.  The computer only has IDE, not SATA; but I didn't anticipate a problem when I bought a SATA disk with an IDE adapter as the new disk — it was advertised as just the thing for replacing a faulty IDE disk in an oldish machine.  But the machine won't boot from the new disk; with only that disk available, it won't boot at all.  When booted from another medium, the new disk is perfectly usable.  But I need to be able to boot from it.  Is there a way to do this?  Thanks for any ideas.  (I've always found clones made with Casper to be bootable; I've made clones to IDE disks before and booted from them.  The difference this time is that it's a SATA disk in an IDE adapter.)

[Geek-9pm]

Did they tell you the adapter was compatible at the BIOS level?
The batter way to resolve your problem is to get a real IDE drive, o0ne just like k the one you had. Very old machines   do not upgrade very well. There are a number of issues
Windows  XP,  ev en  old versions, can handle a small IDE derive very well.  They are still sold from stock on hand or else reconditioned. About $40. Try Amazon.

NOTE: I think the adapter is not compatible at y the BIOS level.

[patio]

It's not gonna boot to it until it has an OS installed...does it show up properly in the BIOS ? ?
If so boot to the CD of the OS you want on it and run Setup...

[Lisa_maree]

Hi

Some more information would help please,

What is the motherboard make and model?

The IDE to sata adapter make and model ?

The new Harddrive make and model  ?

What software you used to clone the drives. Some cloning software needs to have the new drive  set to active , bootable before it will boot.
Some motherboards are limited to 169gb hard drives so you would need a PCI sata adapter card instead of the ide to sata adapter.
 

[giomach]

Thanks to all for your replies.

Since my original IDE system disk became too small, about 18 months ago, I have been through two successive IDE replacements bought over the internet, so the idea of a brand new WD SATA disk was attractive, now that it seems difficult get get a reliable IDE disk anymore.  Buying another IDE disk may still be the plan of last resort, but I'd like to explore other possibilities first.

I don't understand what "BIOS-compatible" would mean.  My experience with the SATA to IDE adapter is that BIOS detects the disk in the adapter (as the IDE primary master), and so does Windows. I had no trouble cloning the previous system disk to it.  But Windows will not boot from it, when it is the only disk attached.  What actually happens is strange.  With only this new disk attached, Windows begins to load, but on reaching the point when you would expect the invite to login, no such invite appears but the process stops and the machine has to be switched off.

Even stranger: if I attach a bootable IDE clone in the secondary master, besides having the new disk attached, the machine boots.  If the first boot option is HDD0, the new (SATA) disk is D: (system !!), the IDE clone is C:, and the DVD (secondary slave) is E:.  If the first boot option is HDD1, we get the new disk as E:, the IDE clone as C: (system) and the DVD as D:.  In either case removing the IDE clone, as I want to do for safe-keeping, prevents booting.

My plan A is still to seek a way to make it boot.  In reading up, I'm ignoring (for the present) things like installing SATA drivers, since the adapter is supposed to be hiding the fact that it is SATA.  Likewise I think I shouldn't have to upgrade my BIOS, which makes no mention of SATA.  The BIOS is Phoenix Award BIOS v6.00PG and the motherboard is MSI KM4M MS-6734 VER:1, of 2003 vintage.

Plan B could be to fit a PCI SATA card and drivers, and dispense with the IDE adapter, but I might be no better off unless someone can assure me that a SATA disk fitted to such a card should be bootable.  I've seen reviews of particular cards which said they were not bootable, so I'm sceptical here.

Plan C could be to make a bootable DVD to keep the new disk company in the machine, if it would work the same way as the IDE clone is doing at present.  But I don't have installation media for XP, to make such a DVD, and besides it would take the DVD drive out of use, so it doesn't appeal very much.

The adapter comes from a reputable retailer (see http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/oem-500gb-sata-35-inch-hard-drive-with-ide-conversion-kit-a08ky ) but there is no brand name on the box and no instructions at all, not even how to connect it.  On the adapter itself there is JP IDE & SATA BRIDGE and JP103-20330-818-2, if that helps.  The hard drive is Western Digital WD5000AAKX.  My cloning software is Casper 6.0 ( http://www.fssdev.com/products/casper/ ), which has always made bootable clones before this; it has an option to "repair MBR", which tells me that mine is already valid.

Thanks again for your interest. I would really like to get this fixed!

[Geek-9pm]

One of the possible issues is the 48 bit LBA thing. This is old stuff, but if you have a very old motherboard, it might be an issue.
SATA  devices do not have the problem. But  an older BIOS  does. t happens when the drive is over 137 GB (Or just above  127 GB.)
But I do not think your mother board is that bold, so ignore that.
It would seem the clone software did not work right.

Let me repeat something I inferred earlier. Using a SATA to IDE adapter is. IMHO, a bad choice. It must only be for an emergency.It is a complex device, not a simple adapter.

Pardon me for trampling. But punting SATA into an old machine is like putting new wine into an old wine bottle.  The bottle  might break.
What I mean is that a new mother board would be a better long term investment and give better results tarn trying to upgrade and older board.

Just saying.

[kyle_engineer]

What actually happens is strange.  With only this new disk attached, Windows begins to load, but on reaching the point when you would expect the invite to login, no such invite appears but the process stops and the machine has to be switched off.

Based on the fact that the OS loads, but does not fully initialize, I'd say that it did not properly "ghost" the original disk.

Since your computer will begin the boot sequence from that HDD, then it doesn't seem like an issue with detecting the drive (though there could be some issue like that since it is an older machine), but rather that the OS is broken.

Personally I've never used Casper for ghosting, just Paragon. However there are some good tools included for free in Hiren's BCD which you could try. Try ghosting the original disk using another software such as the above listed.

You could also try running a repair via the XP disk, but that also may not solve the problem...

OH! And did you try booting to safe-mode?

There's my $0.02!

- kyle_engineer

[giomach]

This is just an interim update.

Those of you who suspected that the cloning wasn't 100% successful may be proved right.  The people at Casper are looking into it at present anyway.

On a couple of other points raised:
• my old IDE system disk was 250GB, so it's not the "LBA thing"
• trying to boot in safe mode hangs in the same way
• the vendor of the IDE adapter suggested the XP repair disk too, but I can't verify this as I never had such a disk, or an XP CD either
• a new motherboard would be too complicated for me, plus it wouldn't outlive the machine

Thanks again, all responses are appreciated.

[giomach]

Well, I repeated the cloning operation, and this time it worked!  That is, the target disk is bootable.  There were differences in the circumstances, however.

In the first attempt to clone, when the target disk was left unbootable, the target disk had been completely unused prior to the cloning operation.  This would be a common enough circumstance.  In the second attempt, the target disk was already formatted and contained data, as a result of the first attempt.

Also, in the first attempt, the source disk was primary master, and the target disk, via the SATA-to-IDE adapter, was in the secondary IDE slot.  In the second attempt, the source disk was secondary master, and the target disk, via the SATA-to-IDE adapter, was in the primary IDE slot.  Both times, of course, the source disk was functioning as system disk.  I don't feel this difference was significant.

Both attempts had in common that the target disk was attached via the SATA-to-IDE adapter.  In this, they differed from all my previous uses of Casper, which used IDE disks as both source and target.

Casper actually gave a warning, during the first attempt, that it "could not write to backup boot record" on the target disk, but this message was hidden in the (HTML) report of the operation, and only visible on examining the source of the report.

The Casper people also pointed out to me a number of errors in the machine's system log, but I am unconvinced that these had any bearing on the failure of the program to write the boot record first time.

Since the same combination of circumstances is unlikely to arise again, I suppose we will never know for sure whether the problem would recur, or whether it was a one-off.  At all events, everything is working now, and it has been proven that using a disk through a SATA-to-IDE adapter does not prevent that disk from functioning as the system disk.

[Geek-9pm]

giomach, thank your for sharing this. 
Glad to hear that you got it to work.
So, one might reason, the solution is 'Try, try again.'


The Casper the OP referees to is a product of  Future Systems Solutions.

They coffer a free version of the disk clone software.
http://www.fssdev.com/products/casper/trial/

PS. It is not uncommon for a drive clone  to fail the first time.

[patio]

It was never the adapter...it was the cloning app and restore process...
Very common with any imaging app unfortunately.

[Geek-9pm]

It was never the adapter...it was the cloning app and restore process...
Very common with any imaging app unfortunately.

You are right, Patio   
It might be said this could happen with other clone software.

[patio]

It does...with all of them.

[artbuc]

It was never the adapter...it was the cloning app and restore process...
Very common with any imaging app unfortunately.

Even Macrium Reflect?

[Geek-9pm]

Even Macrium Reflect?

It has more to do with the HDD condition.
The OP said it worked the second time.
Some place it has been documented that the HDD firmware can "cure" a HDD problem with  another write operation is performed. The  OS has no control over this. The algorithm is proprietary. It extend the life a the HDD by a large factor. It often is never noticed.