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Author Topic: Wireless Repeater at home.  (Read 4515 times)

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Geek-9pm

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Wireless Repeater at home.
« on: January 02, 2015, 10:18:28 PM »
My DSL service was so bad that I finally cancelled it. And by telephone line. In this part of town the phone company ant not going to repair or replace copper wires.

So, my next door neighbor has good Internet with the cable company. Comcast.c. I get a weak signal at about -74dbm with a simple dongle. On the Internet it checks out at about 20 Mbps. So I can watch Netflix with good quality.

What I want is to set up a wireless repeater at the read of my house. The signal is much better there.  The alternative would be to just run an Ethernet cable to the back o0f the house. But I was hoping a wireless repeater would be  a way to avoid running a fat CAT-5 through the house.

Here is what I have.
Used Linksys WRT54G V8 . It has been updated to DD-WRT V 24. It works as a router and AP, but to date I have not got it to work as a Wireless repeater.
In fact, I can not get it to work as a client.
So, I am at a standstill.   :'(
Any ideas?

DaveLembke



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Re: Wireless Repeater at home.
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2015, 06:20:21 AM »
 I have used a Wireless Bridge before to do this... however... does your neighbor know that your using his internet?    ;D

I had to do this setup once when my wife forgot to pay the cable bill and internet was shut off and since we have Vonage it also killed the phone to call in and pay over phone to get the connection back. It was also middle of winter during a snow storm and so I wasnt about to drive 13 miles to the nearest free wifi hot spot which was mc donalds, and so I walked around my home with my netbook looking to see if I could detect an open wireless connection. I found a very very weak connection from my bedroom which was stronger when netbook was pressed up against the window. I was able to get 1 bar and so i attempted to use the internet to pay the bill but was given a notice that if I paid over the internet it could take as long as 2 business days to process the payment, but that if I wanted it sooner I could call it in. So I configured a wireless bridge that I had to connect to this random person in neighborhoods wifi and duct taped the bridge to the window temporarily. I then connected the cat5 cable to my router which is tied into everything else and my phone was then able to work. I then was able to place phone call and pay by check over the phone and get them to light my broadband back up. I then disconnected this temporary wireless bridge connection and made sure that my wife paid the comcast bills on time.  ::)

Geek-9pm

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Re: Wireless Repeater at home.
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2015, 07:21:26 PM »
True Confessions...!   :D

But yes, I do have  permission.
What tools do you user? I mean software. I have not yet found how to scan using the waiter I have. So I can not see if I got the connection.

DaveLembke



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Re: Wireless Repeater at home.
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2015, 08:21:09 PM »
Tools I use are a built in directional app that my Toshiba Netbook NB205 has. Somehow the antenna seems directional and so it shows a series of rings around a central location which is you with the computer. There are circles on the rings and these represent wireless networks detected and the closer these are to you, the stronger the signal. The furthest away on the series of 5 rings the weaker the signal. It also gives you statistical info on the wireless connection detected and shows a locked or unlocked symbol and states whether its B or G etc. And depending on the location of the circle you know to walk in one direction to get closer to the source of the signal vs trying to guess which direction to get a stronger connection. So somehow the antenna is directional to display with this software where to walk with computer to get a better signal connection.

Testing for connection should be as simple as a persistent ping to google such as from a system that should have internet connection open up command shell and enter ping www.google.com -t and if your getting successful pings then your connected. Otherwise if your getting some successful and some loss you know that  its a wireless signal strength issue where its coming and going and not stable.  Or no response you know your not connected.

If the wireless is open without any security this should be pretty easy to set up. If there is security then you will need to enter the info in the config of the access point set to bridge mode etc so it can associate with this other wireless router etc.

Geek-9pm

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Re: Wireless Repeater at home.
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2015, 10:08:49 PM »
Thanks I will try again.

DaveLembke



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Re: Wireless Repeater at home.
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2015, 08:50:11 AM »
Also to mention in Bridge configuration the Router or Access point that is running in bridge mode needs to have DHCP turned off. The neighbors DHCP will issue you an address and gateway lease etc. If for some reason it allows you to configure it as a Bridge and allows for local DHCP, then there could be issues if the local DHCP isnt getting a lease from the DHCP from the neighbor.

The Bridge that I used was specifically a Bridge only intended to be a bridge. It was one of these: http://www.amazon.com/Cisco-Linksys-WET54G-Wireless-G-Ethernet-Bridge/dp/B00008WMBT/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1420386581&sr=8-9&keywords=wireless+bridge+linksys

Geek-9pm

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Re: Wireless Repeater at home.
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2015, 11:17:35 PM »
Thanks. Here is an update. I got the DD-WRT device to work as a client and it does that very well. I do not want a full bridge, I only want to get the Internet connection. The part I had missed was how to scan for the MAC address of the main wireless  router and get my router to be a client  to that AP.  After that, it works. But the security is turned off. Later, I will try to improve security.

The main l router, my neighbor, has a guest feature that allows some use with low security. It requires a password, but is not very secure. Still, better than  no security.

DHCP. Yeah, it is a real PITA. Hard to get it right. I found a configuration where I did not need to disable it in one place, but in another. You have top pay attention to which sub net your use.

I am learning. One day at a time.  :)

DaveLembke



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Re: Wireless Repeater at home.
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2015, 01:07:47 PM »
Good to hear its working.... and depending on where you live the lesser security of the guest feature might not be that much of a problem such as if you lived in a rural area where wardrivers are less likely to be driving around for a signal to connect to etc and they would instead favor an area with more houses per mile traveled to try against as well as not stand out like a sore thumb if parked on side of road with a laptop etc.

But even though i am in a not very populated area, i still like to have maximum security to the point that i drilled holes and ran Cat5e for most of the network stuff I have in my new home on 100 meg switch connected to router to broadband modem and the wireless is only used on the rare occasion for a laptop but mostly for my wife and daughters kindle fires.

I have a project this spring to either run fiber to the barn from my home or for the fact that the barn gets its power from the main breaker in my home, add an outlet in the basement on one of the legs and use one of those network bridges that communicates over the hot leg to use the wiring as a means to get like a 20 meg or better connection between my office I built in the loft of the barn and the home. I could go with a wireless point to point, but I dont see a need to emit extra RF radiation especially since it would have to be located in my daughters room window closest to the barn that is 75 feet away. They say RF isnt that bad from wireless devices, but I chose to keep exposure to it to a minimum just in case in addition to the better security of wire or fiber.  ;)

Geek-9pm

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Re: Wireless Repeater at home.
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2015, 06:04:52 PM »
As to your concern about RF levels. Wireless signals in the 2.5 GHz band are typically below - 20 dbm at a distance of two meters.  That is a very low level of RF energy.  A wireless device is dangerous if you place it within g a few centimeters of your eyeball.

Quote
WHO established the International EMF Project in 1996 to assess the scientific evidence of possible health effects of EMF in the frequency range from 0 to 300 GHz. They have stated that although extensive research has been conducted into possible health effects of exposure to many parts of the frequency spectrum, all reviews conducted   ...
...exposures do not produce any known adverse health effect.
From wikipedia.org
The big source of EMF in the general environment is out sum. It is know to both heal and harm our bodies. We need some exposure to it, too much can cause melanoma.

BC_Programmer


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Re: Wireless Repeater at home.
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2015, 07:19:11 PM »
The big source of EMF in the general environment is out sum. It is know to both heal and harm our bodies. We need some exposure to it, too much can cause melanoma.

EMF = Electromagnetic Field. The Sun's magnetic field doesn't affect us much since the Solar Wind coming from the sun is deflected by the Earth's Magnetic Field. The Earth's magnetic field is likely the biggest natural EMF that we are exposed to. What you are thinking of is Electromagnetic Radiation, I think.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

Geek-9pm

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Re: Wireless Repeater at home.
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2015, 07:36:17 PM »
EMF = Electromagnetic Field. The Sun's magnetic field doesn't affect us much since the Solar Wind coming from the sun is deflected by the Earth's Magnetic Field. The Earth's magnetic field is likely the biggest natural EMF that we are exposed to. What you are thinking of is Electromagnetic Radiation, I think.
Right. I meant radiation.
Back to topic.
What woks for me is a client wireless router connected to a AP. Trying to get the one router to do double duty as client and AP just does not wok. Some detail is lacking in the documentation. It seems the tern 'Wireless Repeater' is used loosely. So I will just use two devices. The extra device is not needed anywhere else in my home, so I will just use it for my convince. But it makes me wonder about the devices they now sell as 'Wi-Fi' boosters. Do they really work?

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Re: Wireless Repeater at home.
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2015, 12:09:49 AM »
More update...   :)
Some grammar errors are from dictation.
Here's some additional information. I have been studying information about three different brands of routers. They are:
DD-WRT
Linksys,
Netfear,
and
Tenda.
The most extensive documentation is, of course, from DD – WRT. The commercial router companies also claim to have repeaters  and wireless repeaters in their product line, including many of the most popular models presently on the market.
However, I have found a lot of inconsistency or at least the difficulty in the documentation. Here's the basic concept, you have to grasp. The new wireless routers consist of some three or four principal components. Some include a modem, and additionally must have a wireless transceiver and an Ethernet switch . All in the same package. Of course, a external power supply is  required and in some cases, makes a significant difference in the performance of the router. Wrong power supply, poor performance.
Now here comes the confusion. The Ethernet section can allow all devices to communicate with each other. If that is what you want to do. The wireless transceiver will interface to the Ethernet switch and allow wireless devices to also connect to the Internet and the local network. Most of the time, you will not have any trouble using the Ethernet, the rules are rather straightforward and don't require a lot of preparation on the part of the user.
But setting up the wireless is not quite as transparent. The wireless requires some type of security, unless you're willing to take the risk. The security standards have shifted somewhat in recent times, and there is some question as to whether not all routers can comply with all forms of security out there. This is the area where you will probably have the most trouble. So much so that in some documents, it says you have to forget about security and run your wireless completely open. If you want the most versatile and flexible operation. That is very unfortunate.
Both  Ethernet and wireless have rules about the subnet. The subnet is, in simple terms, a range of addresses of all devices that should communicate with each other through your router. Nevertheless, there are setups where you can have different devices on different subnets and somehow get this thing to work. I have never seen a clear, concise explanation of how that works. But I have got up to work both ways. To a limited extent.
When you have all devices in the same subnet, you should ensure that only one router is doing the DHCP. That statement is generally true. But presently I have one of the routers doing DHCP here in my office and ignoring the main router. My computers in my office can see each other, but cannot see the computers next-door. But all my computers can get to the Internet. And also my android tablet and my iPhone can see the Internet through another AP that I set up locally.
Even though what I am using is successful for my purpose, it still is very oddball, and not like what is claimed in some documents I have seen. It seems as some routers just cannot get along with each other. While others do. I have tried so many, variations  of DHCP, subnet and local IP address, but I've lost track of how many different things  I've tried.

Now here's the real kicker. There are some devices being sold out there that claim they will work as a wireless repeater and are very easy to set up. Well, I have not found any evidence that that is true. Reading through the documentation indicates that you cannot simply make a wireless repeater using only the security, MAC address and SS ID. Digging into the documentation you have to get into your main router, the one that is connected to the Internet, and make an allowance for another device to be a remote repeater. So that means you have to get permission from your neighbor to go into his router and set up a list of remote clients that are allowed to function as repeaters. In the advertising I have seen, that point is never highlighted explicitly. It is not enough to have the password, Mac and SS ID. You actually have to go into the control panel of the main router and allow it to accept a remote repeater by specifying the MAC address of any remote repeaters you want to have in the system.
So far I have not got to that point. But I do have a working system by using  my router with DD–WRT as a client only and making connection to the guest account of the main router. The guest account does not have any security enabled, but only a simple password login.
If anybody knows more about this, please chime in and tell me what's going on here. So far all I have found is you have to use minimum-security and for ideal performance you have to fiddle with the main router as well as your local repeater that you're trying to set up. You have to have permission from the main router to set up her repeater.
Please tell me if that is wrong.
Because I'm a poor typist. I had to do this by dictation instead of trying to type it in. If you are using Windows 7 or Windows 8, you already have, speech recognition software on your computer. Give it a try. Sure beats typing.
End of dictation. :D
 

End of message.

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Re: Wireless Repeater at home.
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2015, 02:11:15 PM »
Dear diary,
Today I again tried the Tenda AP in repeater mode. Does not work.But I got this warning:
Quote
AP MAC Address    
Note: SSID and channel will automatically set to match your selected AP. Note that the AP you select MUST also support WDS. WEP is recommended for the connection for better compatibility with your selected AP.
But it did not connect to the other device, which was also a Tenda.Nor did it change the SSID of the repeater. Back to reading more documentation.