Numismatics

[DaveLembke]

Been part of the group here for over 10 years now and never posted anything way off subject before, so I figured it would be an interesting chat maybe to chat about numismatics. I have been collecting and buying and selling US & World Coins since I was 8 years old.

Anyone else here collect and have any cool true stories? 

Myself, I have been in Numismatic News before when finding quite the find and reporting it to an editor that likes people to share their finds etc. At first I thought it would be cool to share this with others as for I have seen others share there neat treasure finds too. But I actually had a few months of people sharing negative comments on "Ethics" of being a numismatist.

Back about 12 years ago I bought a bunch of Morgan Silver Dollars for $7 to $9 each. I bought them in bulk from a pile of them that were on a plate in a coin dealers case. Silver was cheap and they seemed like a bargain, so I bought up almost all of them that were better grade of VF or better. I didnt look at the dates and mint marks. I figured I would buy them and look for VAM's and whatever is common is just common but still would be better vs just saving .999 silver bars that have no premium over bullion value. When looking through them on christmas eve of 2006, I saw that one of the Morgan silver dollars had a date of not 1883 which is common but instead 1893. I flipped the coin over to see the mint mark and it was "S" for San Francisco. I almost dropped the coin when I saw that mint mark as for its the rarest minted for circulation morgan dollar ever minted with only 100,000 struck. My Red Book price guide had a value of $2300 for VF and an asterisk that stated that counterfeits exist. So then my excitement calmed because I figured it must be a counterfeit and thats why it was in with the common morgans.

I went back to the dealer that I bought it from to have him examine it and see what he thought about it. I didnt tell him that I bought it through him as for I didnt want him freak out that he sold that as a common coin by accident etc. I showed it to him and he was examining it and he said he will give me $1500 for it right now. I told him I dont want to sell it as for my grandfather gave me some coins and this was loose in with the other coins. He looked at the mint mark with a stereo microscope to see if the S was added and he said it looks to be genuine. He told me that I should get it slabbed. I asked him what grade he thinks it is. He said VG-8, maybe VG-10 because of the dings to rim and the scratch on the obverse. I said it had VF details so I was thinking maybe F-12 or F-15.

So I sent it out to ANACS and they slabbed it as genuine and graded it as VF Details - F-15 Grade. This placed the coin in the $3500 range retail. I held onto it for about 6 months and then my wife had a car that was a death trap a 1999 Kia Sophia that the seat belts would disconnect by themselves when driving down the road and it was a piece of junk car. My daughter was almost 2 years old and so I saw a 2003 Mercury Sable Sedan for sale for $10,000 and ended up selling the 1893-S VF Details net F-15 ANACS slabbed silver dollar to a different dealer that I knew I negotiated with having lunch at his daughters restaurant. My daughter was with me in a stroller and we were talking coins and he originally said $1900. I said I am a knowledgeable collector and know that I can get $3150 for it through another dealer as for I did have another offer and I brought that with me to show that I was not bluffing and it was the truth. He saw that and said that he needed the 1893-S King Morgan to complete his set of morgans. And so he said how about $3100. I said... how about $3150 with a smile. He smiled back and said sure. He was a nice older man in his 70s and he was wealthy owning multiple local businesses in a rich town nearby. I knew that the extra $50 was like negotiating for an extra penny to be paid by him and that he would probably go for $3150. He enjoyed the interaction with my daughter to, and I told him thanks for buying the coin. He asked why i sold it after he bought it because its going to go up in value. I said that my wifes car is a death trap and i needed to get a safer vehicle for my daughter and her and so this will help on the down payment for a newer, larger, safer car. He stated your correct in family is more important than wealth. He said that he was going to pay for my lunch there and I said how about I pay for his. He smiled and said that this is his daughters restaurant. You made my day today and please enjoy the free lunch. I said thank you and ate and fed my daughter and he left after a firm handshake and a smile. The check was good, I knew it would be because of how wealthy this man is. Anyone else I would have demanded cash in hand.

So time to file my taxes and had to claim the $3142 profit. Uncle Sam loves short-term gains. OUCH $900 in taxes to be paid for the $3142 profit. 

Then my wife was driving home from work one night around 8pm. She was waiting to turn left at a red light onto the highway. A car approached her fast and slammed into the rear end of the 2003 Mercury Sable 4-door Sedan and it was a drunk driver! Police estimated the speed of the Toyota Corolla to be 55 mph when striking my wife who was sitting at the red light. Both cars were stuck together and they had to use 2 wreckers to tug of war to separate them. When I was called to the accident the 2003 Mercury Sable was nose to asphalt and rear end up in the air with the trunk of the car completely destroyed and rear axle shoved forward into the gas tank. The Toyota Corolla was trapped under the Mercury Sable as for it struck and went under the Mercury Sable after obliterating the trunk with the force of a 55 MPH Corolla into a parked Mercury Sable.

Fortunately my wife lived and just had to go to physical therapy for whiplash damage and the black and blues all over her shoulder and chest from the seat belt holding her in went away after a few weeks. The drivers seat broke on impact, so she took a hard hit even inside a mid-size car.

After this I thought..... what if I kept the 1893-S Morgan and didnt get her into a safer vehicle. If it was the 1999 Kia Sophia that took a hit like this, she probably would be dead. I knew I made the right choice.

So the "Ethics" issue in Numismatic News showed up quickly after I shared my find. People posting mostly negative responses about "Ethics" and how I should have gone back to the dealer and told him that I bought it through him. That I should never have gotten a coin worth that much for so little. That if the dealer knew what he was selling that he wouldnt have sold it at that price.

Then others responding about what about the poor old lady that likely came in to sell her husbands collection after he passed away and she may have gotten just $6 for that $8 silver dollar that was worth thousands.

There were a few people who praised it, but the negative responses were like none else I had ever seen in response to anyone elses treasure picking find shared there before. I was getting the Numismatic News by subscription and it got the the point that i would skip over the section because for 2 or 3 months it was complaints about ethics.

It would have been one thing if I was a dealer who ripped someone off knowingly, but the transaction was as unintentional as can be and still be a transaction. Buying blindly, knowing what your getting by seeing it, but not in any great detail to know that among that pile of silver dollars is the coin that serious collectors MUST HAVE to complete their collection and those who have a sweet tooth for KEYs want to add another duplicate of that specific Date/Mint coin to their collection.

In another Numismatic News, I shared the story about the good that became of selling this 1893-S Morgan for $3150. I shared pictures of the accident and how taking the money and getting her into a safer car likely saved her life. There were still some people really sore about the ethics of it all. Maybe they were dealers who while they didnt personally take the loss, felt bad for the dealer I dealt with who accidentally missed the rarest morgan silver dollar needle in a haystack.

Other coins I have found and also sold for the profit of selling them vs holding onto them was the following coins:

1983 Double Die Reverse AU condition... Sold this on ebay 14 years ago. I picked it out of my dads change jug that he dumps his pocket change into. I said hey can i have this penny and he said sure. I said its worth a few hundred dollars. He was still ok with me taking it and selling it.

1998 and 2000 Wide-AM ( proof reverse die on circulation strike mint mishap variety ) Found 2 of the 1998 and 4 of the 2000 pennies with Wide-AM sold them for a easy $20 each. Sadly no rare 1999 Wide-AM found yet.

Bought $120 face value in the Peace ( Handshake Nickels ) when they came out from local bank. Then someone found a double die variety. I dug through a few rolls and didnt find the double die and the unopened rolls of these nickels went through the roof in price. I decided that instead of searching through the remaining $112 in nickels for these double dies that might not exist, that I should sell these unopened rolls and make that guaranteed profit instead. I decided that the 4 rolls of nickels that I opened was a good sampler to the lot of them that they were Later Die State Struck Coins. They werent early strikes and so the quality of their strikes was not the best but they were still unopened rolls. So I put them onto ebay at a starting bid of $150 for $112 face value in unopened rolls of these nickels with free shipping. They ended up selling for $728 to a guy in Florida. Minus the $30 shipping through FedX who had the better shipping rate for a metal box wrapped in duct tape containing $112 face value in nickels within a cardboard box with lots of padding material, I ended up making a nice chunk of change to help pay the bills.

At a dealer in NJ called R & R Coins in Closter, NJ as a 10 year old I saw a buffalo nickel that was in a 2x2 holder as a 1928-S VF. I pointed out to this dealer who I was friends with that its a 1926-S. He had a deal worked out with me prior because I was an eagle eye as he called me that if I found any mistakes that I would either get the coin for free or a really good deal on it or a reward of some kind. Ray was a really nice guy and a great dealer. I went weekly and spent what little i had on coins. He was also good on his word as for he looked it over under microscope  and sure enough I was correct it was a rare 1926-S Nickel in VF details. He smiled and said how about I charge you the $1.25 that the 1928-S holder says on it. I said sure, it was worth much more than $1.25. Later sold that on ebay when back in college for a nice profit.

In a 5 gallon bucket of foreign coins I bought from a dealer that was looking to get rid of the foreign junk as he called it, he said how about $20 for this bucket of foreign coins, I keep tripping over it. I asked if I could sample it first to see whats in it, he said sure. I reached in and grabbed a handful and looked at them coins all moving losely and saw some older coins that were of silver content mixed in with the mostly copper coins. Some nice large British Pennies from the teens and one with Victoria on it and I said sure $20 is a deal. I gave the dealer the $20 and lugged the what felt like 100 lbs of metal to my car. When i got home I was excited about this purchase and I sorted the coins quickly picking out my favorites from the mix the older British Coins, older Canadian Pennys from the late 1800s, some coins suspected of containing silver went into another pile, and then were some copper sliders. older coins worn so heavily that you had to get the light just right to see what they where. In the sliders I found a 1794 United States Large Cent that was barely recognizable as what it was. Liberty's Bust outline showed and the date showed when held at an angle. The edge of the penny had the lettering too which survived the test of time better than the surface of the coin. I ended up getting $200 for this penny, although i wish I kept it because they are costly to acquire. The edge was like this here: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-amCS-AaFaVU/Tpn5RI43I6I/AAAAAAAAAA4/e2N-62INWOc/s1600/1794+large+cent+edge+lettering.jpg ... So I made $180 and got a bunch of free foreign coins of which the older Canadian coins I sold some of them for even more money made in addition to the $180 that I was already in the plus on. The coins that I didnt care for, common and not worth much, I ended up donating to a Boy Scouts Coin Club that I heard about and paid the $20 shipping to send them to some kids to enjoy out in California.

My Favorites:

I like so many different American Coins. I started off with Wheat Pennies in the late 1970s when they were more abundant in change, the reverse of the coin caught my eye and I saved them, but also occasionally spent them because I wanted that  bubblegum at 1 to 3 cents a piece etc. It wasnt until i was 8 years old that I became more responsible to actually collect and not spend old coins to buy candy etc.

My grandfather had a large collection of Prussian, Poland, German, and Russian coins from 1700s to early 1900s when my great grandfather game over to the USA as well as a large amount of early pre 1965 USA silver coins with so many silver half dollars, indian head pennies, and more. I saw this collection briefly when I was 10 years old. My grandfather passed away in 1982 and my aunt grabbed the collection quickly after he passed away. My cousin who was also my age brought it all out to show me in 1985. All I have is memories of this collection as for I havent seen it since. When asking aunt about it she acts like it doesnt exist yet she pulled it away from us quickly when we were looking through it that summer of 1985, and it hasnt been sold. It should have been split 3 ways between my grandfathers 3 kids. Buy she has it hidden somewhere. I'd so love to go through it to identify all the coins there. I grabbed one coin from this collection to show my dad that it existed still. A Poland Prussian 1839 15 Kopeck 1 Zloty dual-denomination for use in Poland or Russian economy made of silver. I was stupid and sold this coin when I was in college and hard up for cash. The person i sold it to for $20 refuses to sell it back to me even when offering $40. Its only worth about $25, but its just that I shouldnt have sold it and it was the only coin I had from my grandfathers collection. 

I enjoy world coins and I have made connections with others in other countries to pay American Money for them to send me coins from their country or trade coins by mail etc, although I havent done that for quite a while since the Euro coming into Europe took out the fun with getting coins from countries that prior to the Euro had coins that I enjoyed to collect even if not worth much. The Euros are boring universal coinage and to plain looking. I like the foreign coins that are 1970s and older that were made with better metals for the most part, however some countries used Zinc and those coins are sometimes ugly as sin when they are corroded. Its fine when they are grey and almost black, but pitted with white oxide is a sad sad zinc coin. I had some wartime German coins that were Zinc that saw better says and looked as if someone dug them up out of the ground pitted and porous such as some 10 Pfennig 1917 and other teens coins of Zinc as well as World War II Zinc coins when copper was needed for shell casings etc.

In addition to coins I also collect old paper money from around the world. Most of it not worth much, but its almost like low cost art. Plus lots of history in old paper money when inflation goes through the roof and a 1923 100,000 Mark Note might make someone who didnt know any better think you were rich until they find out that it was before a monetary collapse and reform in Germany when inflation went nuts. http://c8.alamy.com/comp/BHE5WX/money-finance-banknotes-germany-100000-mark-reichsbank-berlin-121923-BHE5WX.jpg

Well enough said for now.. I could go on and on.... I also cherry pick coins from circulation although slim pickings. These days unless you buy say a $25.00 brick of pennies and get it when someone cleaned out their jug of old change, the wheat pennies dried up to about 5 found for every 2500 pennies searched. Wheat pennies from 1940-1958 are worth around 4 to 5 cents each if common and no errors etc. Those pre-1940 worth more and some of them bring sweet price tags when sold like 1914-D or 1909-S or 1909-S V.D.B, as well as almost every teen penny with a D or S in F or better you can make a few dollars or more on, but very unlikely to find these. I use to set specific dates off to the side and look a them for Double Dies and Proof Die on circulation cents, but its more time consuming than what you will ever make out of it. Sure you could find that ultra rare 1969-S Double Die Penny and have $40,000 or more, but all the 1969-S double die looking pennies i have found were machine doubling which is a sloppy coin press and no big premium. Occasionally I will check with banks to see if they have any half dollars. Sometimes I will get 40% and 90% silver half dollars or even proof "S" half dollars broken out of their sets and spent this way for 50 cents each. Then spend the common clad half dollars and hold onto the silver and lightly circulated proofs. 

Lately its been kind of whatever makes its way to me in change in transaction I might save that 1948-D Nickel for example thats heavily worn just because its a 1948-D however its so heavily worn its not really worth that much, but it doesnt cost hardly anything to keep it and maybe some day it will be sold in a roll of older jefferson nickels with mint marks that go at a small premium above that of Philadelphia which is more common. All the coin shops dried up out my way and those that continue to do business are now online where cost of running a business is cheaper and possibly safer from robbery. I miss the days of going into a shop and socializing with dealer and seeing what the deal of the day was and handling the coins and looking at them closely to make sure they are what they are and not cleaned, altered, or over graded etc.

Also I keep an eye to the Give-a-Penny, Take-a-Penny tray and if something in it catches my eye I will grab the 1898 Indian Head Penny that the clerk at the store thought was Canadian and put in a new shiny 2016 penny for it in trade 

[patio]

Very interesting stories...made me think of something used frequently..."Caveat Emptor"...

What's Latin for "seller beware" ? ?

[Salmon Trout]

Today the UK press has been running a story about a school which had been donated a piano which was made around 1900. They got around to having a tuner look at it. He thought the keys were a bit sluggish so he took them out and found some hand made and stitched bags underneath. They turned out to contain 903 gold sovereigns and half sovereigns dated between 1847 and 1915. They weighed more than 13 pounds. Nobody knows who put them there. Under British law a coroner's inquest was held to decide if it was "treasure", that is, hidden deliberately. The decision was that it was, and the piano tuner and the school will share the proceeds. Estimated value at auction around $400,000. This is nearly twice as much as the gold weight value, due to the interest by collectors in coins of this type, some stories say.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-39655769

[DaveLembke]

Heard about this find back on Monday. I love reading stories like this. Last I knew they were trying to figure out the owner of the coins. I guess they gave up on that and split it between finder who did the right thing and shared what he found vs sneaking off with it and the school. Its nice that the piano tuner got half of it.

Only drawback to this is that all sorts of so-called family members come out of nowhere wanting you to share with them your sudden wealth like lottery winners.

Back about 12 years ago there was a story about some guys that dug up a bush in their back yard and found tin cans full of old cash in them. They claimed they were digging up a bush when their shovel struck a can and then to their surprise all of this cash was there. But anyone who lives in New England, USA knows that the ground is so moist that tin cans might last 10 years tops under ground before pin holes start to form and these cans from the 1920s were in too good of shape to be unearthed from the ground. They brought the stacks of old money which is worth way more beyond that of the face value to a local dealer in Massachusetts and then the police catching wind of this find went to investigate and it was found that these guys were contractors doing some roof work on an old home or barn, and found these cans tucked in a hidden area of the upper wall or ceiling which was exposed when ripping out the old roof to put new wood down. They relocated the money found and then botched a story of how it was found in their back yard. The current owners of the property by which this was stolen from was unaware of any wealth stashed in the home or barn. FBI then got involved to try to figure out of the money was linked to any old bank robberies in the area as for it was an unusual amount of cash in all denominations from $1 bills to $100 bills silver and gold certificates. And it was worth something like $100,000 for around $5000 face value.

As to what happened with the cash after these guys were all sent to prison is unknown. My guess is that the current owners of the property that was being serviced by these contractors would be given it all back. No taxes would have to be paid on it unless sold i would think.

These guys drew way too much attention to themselves and there were pictures with them with cash stuffed in their jackets etc. They should have done the right thing and tried for a 50/50 deal with the owner of the residence and property found.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-04-29-nh-treasure-scam_x.htm

http://archive.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2005/04/30/police_call_methuen_treasure_story_a_tall_tale/

My grandfather before he passed away told me about stories of finding money when he was doing work around peoples homes in New Jersey in the 1950s thru the 1970s before he retired. The 2 stories he shared was that he struck a glass jar full of change under a bush that the current resident wanted to have removed with a shovel. Not a lot of money just silver dimes and quarters that someone back during the depression buried back when banks were not trusted, paper money was about as trusted as toilet paper, and everyone wanted silver and gold coins to protect their money instead of paper. Then Gold was illegal to hold and you had to turn in gold coins or else face jail and $10,000 fine with the Gold Confiscation Act of 1933 so some people hid gold coins, but most turned them in for fear of jail and the heavy penalty. More info here on that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

The 2nd story was similar to the first, but he found a glass jar in a compartment in the cement steps of this other home that he was busting up with a sledge hammer and to replace it with new mason work. The filler that was used for the steps had a glass jar in it towards the side, so that the knowingly original owner of the money would know later when wanting to retrieve it to beat out a certain area of the steps and the jar would then be accessed to get the money. It was all silver coins in a large pickle type of jar. The original owner of the coins likely pulled their money out of the bank in the form of silver and didnt trust it to be loose in their home which could be stolen and so they made their own bank by sealing their wealth in cement work of the steps. But the current owner was not the original owner, but that my grandfather was given a reward from that owner for finding it, but I wasnt told how much money or if he did say how much money, I forgot that detail. Maybe he got 50% of the coins for himself. 

In Chicago about 8 years ago there was money found hidden in the form of cash from between 1935 and 1957 behind a mirror in the bathroom of a home. It was found when the current owner was updating the long out of date bathroom appearance.

I bought a cheap metal detector 10 years ago and went looking for coins. Found some common change from the 1950s to date, tons of pull tabs, nails, screws, a horse shoe, cap gun from 1950s or 60s about 2 feet down and a cast iron plate to a fireplace dated patented 1857 with the building to the foundation i was searching long gone in the woods. I ended up giving away this metal detector because it only gives a tone but doesnt tell you what metal type. Some day I might get a good one that will tell metal type and depth to avoid tons of wasteful digging for junk. I gave it to a friend who cuts firewood to test long sections of trees for nails and spikes before he takes his chain saw to them. He had a nasty accident happen before when a chain saw struck a nail in a tree and kicked back on him.

Lastly the Saddle Ridge Hoard was in the news not too long ago too... more info here on gold coins found in a tin can in California: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddle_Ridge_Hoard



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[patio]

Salmon i read that story as well...what i was struck by was the loose confines of what the Government uses to determine something "treasure"...which basically makes it State property...

Supposedly they interviewed 50 or so people and dismissed their claims pretty quickly...just sayin.

[Salmon Trout]

Salmon i read that story as well...what i was struck by was the loose confines of what the Government uses to determine something "treasure"...which basically makes it State property...

Not State property. In England and Wales, the law obliges finders of objects which are treasure to report their find to their local coroner within 14 days. (In Britain, a "coroner" is a judge). An inquest led by the coroner then determines whether the find constitutes treasure or not. If it is declared to be treasure then the finder must offer the item for sale to a museum at a price set by an independent board of antiquities experts known as the Treasure Valuation Committee. Only if a museum expresses no interest in the item, or is unable to purchase it, can the finder retain it. So the finder gets the value, if not always the actual item.

'Treasure' is defined as being:

All coins from the same hoard. A hoard is defined as two or more coins, as long as they are at least 300 years old when found. If they contain less than 10% gold or silver there must be at least 10 in the hoard for it to qualify.

Two or more prehistoric base metal objects in association with one another

Any individual (non-coin) find that is at least 300 years old and contains at least 10% gold or silver.

Associated finds: any object of any material found in the same place as (or which had previously been together with) another object which is deemed treasure.

Objects substantially made from gold or silver but are less than 300 years old, that have been deliberately hidden with the intention of recovery and whose owners or heirs are unknown.

If the finder is not the owner of the land where the treasure was found, he or she must share the find, or its sale price, with the landowner, and/or the current tenant occupying the land.

In Scotland, the process is very similar, except that the state is under no legal compulsion to reward the finder, although it usually does. A reward may be withheld or reduced if the finder has inappropriately handled an object, for instance, damaged it by cleaning it or applying waxes and varnishes to it. Finders may elect to waive their rewards. Rewards are not paid for finds occurring during organized fieldwork.

Supposedly they interviewed 50 or so people and dismissed their claims pretty quickly...just sayin.

The Coroner's Court (which is independent of the state) would have assessed their claims.

[patio]

Thank you for the well written clarification....
The BBC news page i read over here devoted 2 sentences to the procedure.

So in essence it has to be offered up to Museums once declared a "treasure"...correct ?

And what % does the State get and the finder get from the museum proceeds ? ?

[Salmon Trout]

So in essence it has to be offered up to Museums once declared a "treasure"...correct ?

Yes, and the museum must pay market price.

And what % does the State get and the finder get from the museum proceeds ? ?

All of the reward goes to the entitled parties (finder, and maybe the landowner). The State (that is, the Government) takes tax, 18% on anything over £10,100).

[patio]

Once again...Thanx.

patio.

[DaveLembke]

Very Cool info shared... never knew of those legalities and very interesting that museums are given first dibs at pretty much anything they want, however they need to pay a fair price for it determined by market... curious how they estimate a value for something that is 1 of a kind and archeological or if archeological isnt under treasure legalities and is protected under an even stronger legality to where it can be seized from private ownership due to its historical or scientific importance etc.

[Salmon Trout]

Very Cool info shared... never knew of those legalities and very interesting that museums are given first dibs at pretty much anything they want, however they need to pay a fair price for it determined by market... curious how they estimate a value for something that is 1 of a kind and archeological or if archeological isnt under treasure legalities and is protected under an even stronger legality to where it can be seized from private ownership due to its historical or scientific importance etc.

The governing principles seem to be that the whole business must be (and must be seen to be) open, fair, and above board, safeguarding the interests of the finders/landowners, and the guardians of Britain's historical heritage. So no shady deals or undervaluation or hidden profits.

The Treasure Valuation Committee (TVC), comprising of independent antiques or coin experts and a representative of the hobby of metal-detecting, establishes the likely market value of each treasure find. A reward of this value can then be made to the finders of treasure and to the owners of find sites unless there are grounds for no reward or a reduced award to be made.

Recent appointments to the TVC

Professor Roger Bland OBE

Roger Bland was Keeper of the Department of Britain, Europe and Prehistory at the British Museum, until July 2015, with responsibility for Portable Antiquities & Treasure. He is President of the British Numismatic Society and Vice-President of the Royal Numismatic Society. He is involved in writing and teaching, and is currently a Visiting Professor at the School of Archaeology and Ancient History, University of Leicester, and churchwarden of St Margaret’s church, Cley-next-Sea in Norfolk.

Christopher Martin

Christopher Martin is the proprietor and Managing Director of CJ Martin Coins and Ancient Art Ltd, and St James’s Ancient Art. He is also Chairman of the British Numismatic Trade Association, and of the Antiquities Dealers Association. He has extensive experience of independent valuation of antiquities, gained over some 40 years of trading.

Dr Tim Pestell

Dr Pestell is Senior Curator of Archaeology at Norfolk Museums Service, responsible for the post-Roman collections. Prior to that he was a self-employed archaeologist, carrying out post-excavation work, small finds reports and small archaeological evaluations. Between 1998-2002, he also lectured at the University of East Anglia, teaching Landscape Archaeology and History.

These roles are unpaid. All three new Committee members hold no other public appointments, and have each declared no political activity in the United Kingdom in the past 5 years.

Estimates of the value of the recent coin find would be informed by history of prices at recent auctions, and as you can see, the committe has members who are very knowledgeable about that kind of thing.

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/treasure-valuation-committee

https://finds.org.uk/

One reason for a reduced reward to a finder might be if they did not not seek the landowner's permission before searching for buried items, however even then weight would be given to the fact that the find was properly reported.

[patio]

So digging in a piano would constitute lack of permission ? ?

Just kiddin...

[DaveLembke]

Cool thanks for the additional info