Welcome guest. Before posting on our computer help forum, you must register. Click here it's easy and free.

Author Topic: Allods - Russian MMORPG - Strangeness  (Read 6440 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

DaveLembke

    Topic Starter


    Sage
  • Thanked: 662
  • Certifications: List
  • Computer: Specs
  • Experience: Expert
  • OS: Windows 10
Allods - Russian MMORPG - Strangeness
« on: October 31, 2011, 08:02:35 PM »
So a friend of mine who jumped ship from the World of Warcraft MMORPG scene to Allods which is one of those games thru gPotato which is free to play, but you have to pay to have good gear and mounts etc. I decided to check it out to play with my long time online friend who is in Canada. One thing I am trying to figure out is has anyone noticed anything strange with the patching process of this game. They use bit-torrents for everyone to stay up to date by feeding off of each other for updates which runs active as part of teh game service.

What struck me as odd was that the initial download of about 1.6GB went quick until I go to about 1539.368MB of 1548.564MB in which point the download stopped. (*These numbers are not actual, but there was about a 8 MB difference of remaining download to go.) After 2 hours of not getting any further, I restarted the game download and it reloaded where it left off from the temp download file and went back to the same count and hung.

*Prior to this point my firewall popped up asking if I wanted to allow access, which I declined access. The access was to allow for my system to upload data from port 6968. Since all I wanted to do was download the game and play it vs become a bit-torrent seed for others, I declined this.

Still same results I decided to uninstall the progress so far and redownload from a mirror thinking maybe the installer/downloader had an issue from the original source. Got to same count and an hour of hang. Decided since this netbook wasnt a critical system with critical private data to open up port 6968 to uploading traffic and within a few seconds my system connected to some IP's for uploading data and then it continued to download the remaining 8MB and was ready to play.

Anyone know why this upload process is required? I have since shut off upload outbound port 6968 to decline being a seeder and the game runs fine, but I found this rather interesting that a downloader would get to like 99% and then hang without warning that the reason for it hanging is because they want you to give them uploaded data back prior to going to 100%.

Any and all feedback on this game or gPotato based games please feel free to post here to warn me about if any known issues. Thanks

BC_Programmer


    Mastermind
  • Typing is no substitute for thinking.
  • Thanked: 1140
    • Yes
    • Yes
    • BC-Programming.com
  • Certifications: List
  • Computer: Specs
  • Experience: Beginner
  • OS: Windows 11
Re: Allods - Russian MMORPG - Strangeness
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2011, 08:20:16 PM »
other clients saw you weren't uploading and so refused to upload to you.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

DaveLembke

    Topic Starter


    Sage
  • Thanked: 662
  • Certifications: List
  • Computer: Specs
  • Experience: Expert
  • OS: Windows 10
Re: Allods - Russian MMORPG - Strangeness
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2011, 02:10:19 PM »
Interesting that it still allowed 99% download from others, and then at the last minute it had an instruction that said... ok your not sharing so were are going to stop you just short of 100% download. But I suppose your correct in that this is probably what was happening.

Kind of dumb though that they dont warn you that if you dont allow your firewall to allow upload sharing prior to the pop up of your firewall requesting Approval/Denial, that you wont be able to install the game. To just leave you in a hung download with no messages stating WHY probably caused others less determined than myself to say I guess I dont need this game since it doesnt even download all the way to install. I wonder if they think all people click ALLOW every time the firewall pops up. But on another note, I suppose they may also think that all people (mostly kids) would allow the access, while they may not think about the small population like myself who doesnt allow all software and downloaders to run freely in my personal digital domain..lol

BC_Programmer


    Mastermind
  • Typing is no substitute for thinking.
  • Thanked: 1140
    • Yes
    • Yes
    • BC-Programming.com
  • Certifications: List
  • Computer: Specs
  • Experience: Beginner
  • OS: Windows 11
Re: Allods - Russian MMORPG - Strangeness
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2011, 02:47:32 PM »
Interesting that it still allowed 99% download from others, and then at the last minute it had an instruction that said... ok your not sharing so were are going to stop you just short of 100% download. But I suppose your correct in that this is probably what was happening.

Kind of dumb though that they dont warn you that if you dont allow your firewall to allow upload sharing prior to the pop up of your firewall requesting Approval/Denial, that you wont be able to install the game. To just leave you in a hung download with no messages stating WHY probably caused others less determined than myself to say I guess I dont need this game since it doesnt even download all the way to install. I wonder if they think all people click ALLOW every time the firewall pops up. But on another note, I suppose they may also think that all people (mostly kids) would allow the access, while they may not think about the small population like myself who doesnt allow all software and downloaders to run freely in my personal digital domain..lol
the 99% isn't contiguous. it just means that from the total you needed to download, you had 99% of it. Doesn't mean you didn't have the last portions, the clients refusing to upload were likely refusing to upload to you for the entire duration, but they also happened to be the only clients with certain portions of the download you needed.

Quote
Kind of dumb though that they dont warn you that if you dont allow your firewall to allow upload sharing prior to the pop up of your firewall requesting Approval/Denial, that you wont be able to install the game. To just leave you in a hung download with no messages stating WHY probably caused others less determined than myself to say I guess I dont need this game since it doesnt even download all the way to install. I wonder if they think all people click ALLOW every time the firewall pops up. But on another note, I suppose they may also think that all people (mostly kids) would allow the access, while they may not think about the small population like myself who doesnt allow all software and downloaders to run freely in my personal digital domain..lol
They probably assume that people understand the difference between being altruism and being a cheat. refusing upload means you are taking something, and not contributing anything to the network and system that is allowing you to download in the first place. It's freeloading, plain and simple. If you don't contribute to the upstream, there is no reason to expect that you are entitled to acquire the entire product, since any other client could be set to simply refuse to contribute to you because you aren't contributing to anybody. My firewall never pops up, because I think software firewalls are a complete waste of time and computer resources.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

DaveLembke

    Topic Starter


    Sage
  • Thanked: 662
  • Certifications: List
  • Computer: Specs
  • Experience: Expert
  • OS: Windows 10
Re: Allods - Russian MMORPG - Strangeness
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2011, 07:25:17 PM »
Quote
My firewall never pops up, because I think software firewalls are a complete waste of time and computer resources.

This statement surprised me! I am guessing your well protected behind a high end (example . Cisco) firewall or something of the likes and not just a $40 router with built in firewall, and the computer never moves to other networks, to only have a single layer of defense outside of the PC itself?

I use a $40 router as my primary line of defense and the built in MS Firewall as 2nd line of defense. MS Firewall isnt the best, but it isnt a resource hog and its bundled with OS, so I use it. The MS Firewall was what popped up asking to allow access or not for upload port 6968. MS Firewall isnt the best firewall option out there, but its good enough and better than nothing when it comes to my portable computers where they would be sitting targets for port probing if I had nothing to protect them.

I agree that lots of security and protection software out there do eat up resources badly like Norton and McAfee. I guess we all have our preferences as to how well or less protected we chose to be and the risks associated with lesser lines of defense.

BC_Programmer


    Mastermind
  • Typing is no substitute for thinking.
  • Thanked: 1140
    • Yes
    • Yes
    • BC-Programming.com
  • Certifications: List
  • Computer: Specs
  • Experience: Beginner
  • OS: Windows 11
Re: Allods - Russian MMORPG - Strangeness
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2011, 09:17:27 PM »
This statement surprised me! I am guessing your well protected behind a high end (example . Cisco) firewall or something of the likes and not just a $40 router with built in firewall, and the computer never moves to other networks, to only have a single layer of defense outside of the PC itself?
it's a D-Link DIR-655. was ~$100 when I purchased it. this computer never moves to other networks. my laptop does, but it doesn't have a firewall either. It is usually booted into linux but I make no distinction.

Quote
I agree that lots of security and protection software out there do eat up resources badly like Norton and McAfee.
It's not IMO a matter of eating them up badly, it's that I don't see the point in having them installed to waste CPU cycles and whatnot.

Quote
I guess we all have our preferences as to how well or less protected we chose to be and the risks associated with lesser lines of defense.
If you ask me, there are more risks associated with being "secure". The fact is that for the most part anti-malware/spyware programs can only detect known malicious software and it's variants. It's either that, or you get flagged with false positives about everything. For a time, Mcafee flagged any program that contained the string "Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run" as malware. I know because one of my tools was flagged by the product. And yet, I just had to reverse that string in the code and use A function to reverse it and there was no flag. If circumventing the protection is that simple for virus authors, what is the point?

The big issue I have is that a lot of users tend to "let their guard down" or aren't as suspicious of somewhat strange activity, under the guise that "well I have a AV program/firewall whatever, so I am invincible". Or even better, people will have anti-malware and firewall programs installed, and when they try to run a program will actually listen to the "instructions" for that program that "oh I guarantee this isn't a virus, just allow everything". Which defeats the purpose; my point is, it doesn't matter what security solution a person is using, the weak spot is the user.

Consider the typical scenario for malware installation- a trojan horse.

First, the person will have to download the program.

In order to be infected, either they download it from an untrusted source, or a trusted source is compromised. The latter is very unlikely. The former is the situation most often encountered. How to combat? Don't download from untrusted sources.

Second, the person will have to execute the program. At this point, an AV will "alert" the user if it suspects it to be malware. But, if you ask me, the user had already made the fatal mistake of downloading it in the first place. Anti-virus and anti-malware is not preventative, it is only employed when things are already going downhill. And what if that trojan horse isn't detected? new malware is created all the time, often infecting hundreds of thousands machines before even a single AV vendor catches wind of it. Because the AV doesn't flip out, the user will take this as a "certificate of authenticity" the virus scan says it's clean, so it must not have evil intentions, or be infected.

the term "infected" is another interesting barrier. A skilled person can easily see the difference between an infected PC and one that isn't infected; but how do you detect this through software? How do you know what is bad and what is good? It's all through hueristics and blacklists, if the program deals with these specific locations and whatnot. But the thing is that plenty of totally legitimate software follows those same rules. One person's Anti-virus, for example, flagged BCSearch, my search program, as malicious. after doing some digging, the only reason it did that was because I used a specific API function in a certain way. I didn't use it wrong. I didn't use it badly. For whatever reason, the AV decided that any program that uses API function X in this specific pattern is evil. But the thing is, not only does legitimate, uninfected software use it that way, but surely there are plenty of malicious applications that don't, so what good is the detection logic there?

The fact is, that trying to detect and properly eliminate viruses is practically in the realm of face recognition and other "fuzzy logic" problems. Face recognition has come along, but it still requires the guiding hand of a person who can recognize faces. The difference is that all people are innately born with the "built-in" ability to recognize faces. Not all people can properly "guide" a malware program when it balls up, and the fact is that such mistakes are inevitable purely as a result of the way they work.

For the most part, the same applies for firewalls. Firewalls don't so much detect bad actions as they simply detect outgoing connections. This makes sense, but if something is making a outgoing connection that isn't supposed to, you've already lost. the program is already on the computer, and if the author knows what they are doing they have full access to the machine to simply disable that software firewall or insert the appropriate configuration information to let it through, meaning no alert and to the user, no problems. Incoming is no longer an issue as even the cheapest router these days has a good firewall. And outgoing is a non-issue because by the time it get's to the point where a software firewall would detect it, there is a good chance the malicious program has simply added itself and gave it access to the external network anyway, so a software firewalls functionality depends solely on the diligence of the malware author. Not a metric I trust.

Additionally: What would port probing do?

Instead of installing a firewall, you should be making sure that you don't have listening connections. Unless you happen to be running a server of some kind, you should have any at all; and if you do, you should make sure that incoming connections are properly authenticated. Using a software firewall as a protection against that is just covering the true problem, which is that you have unsecured, unauthenticated ports listening for incoming connections and responding to them.

For example: let's say somebody has a SSH server. the port will be listening. Clients connect, and give authentication details before they are allowed further access.

The only way a "port probing" by a experienced hacker would get into the system would be if the SSH server is outdated (and they use a known exploit or vulnerability) or there is another misconfiguration. Both of those are the responsibility of the person running the server, and keeping them updated to prevent exploitation of the system is practically their job.

The typical malware application either tries to connect to another machine on the internet to communicate and get information on what other trojans to download, or it wants to open a listening port so that it's "master" can tell it what to do. In either case, if you ask me, the game is "over" since you have the trojan in the first place; and as I noted, the way hueristics work means that you cannot 100% rely on an AV program, but it gives a lot of people the feeling that they are "invincible" so people are more likely to run programs that they would find questionable under the assumption that "if it's bad, my AV will know" and then take the AV not flagging it as malicious as a sign that it is perfectly safe. The fact that AV programs mark files as "clean" or "infected" when neither can be determined with absolute certainty via software may seem like a nitpick but it doesn't help peoples assumptions about the infallibility of AV software.

Anyway, anecdotally, the only time I've had an AV installed is years ago when I first connected to the internet (2005 or therabouts I think it was, and with windows 98 no less) and more recently after I was infected with virut, in order to prevent my old files from reinfecting me. "ah ha!" you say, so you got infected because you weren't using a AV!" Well, no- you see, it wasn't until  after I was infected that the virus even registered with most AVs. Afterwards I got a new PC that ran Vista and now 7 which pretty much made most Malware obsolete, in that I still get prompted for administrator access. No malware that can do anything dangerous can function without admin access, so I only dole that out when I trust the program, or am prepared to do a check with process explorer to make sure it's not doing anything that can be construed as malicious. The only problem I've had so far has been as a result of doing the former but not doing the latter. And it was one instance that was quickly rectified when I discovered it.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

DaveLembke

    Topic Starter


    Sage
  • Thanked: 662
  • Certifications: List
  • Computer: Specs
  • Experience: Expert
  • OS: Windows 10
Re: Allods - Russian MMORPG - Strangeness
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2011, 01:35:05 AM »
BC I enjoy your knowledgeable posts  8)  Had a good laugh at the ah-ha statement. I too have been bitten by a virus that was too new many years ago even running the latest corporate edition of NAV. But more recently a few years ago bitten by BlackVNC exploit of VNC 4.1 on a server I had with web presence. Since that day catching the hacker in my server controlling the system remotely, and me quickly pulling the network cable from the back of the system after seeing the hackers activities on my 2nd display in the corner late one night, I have been sort of on hightened security and awareness as to what is running and why, as well as not just allowing everything to run.  I regularly use netstat -b and netstat -ano and monitor my systems, as well as use wireshark to take a peek at traffic. I also use a free tool called Secunia PSI to scan my system of programs that have known vulnerabilities if at end of life cycle etc or patches that need to be applied. The secunia PSI has been pretty good in pointing out potential trouble spots vs having to research each and every program etc that I have to see if there are any exploits etc to have to correct. So with MS Updates taking care of the OS, Browser, etc, and Secunia PSI taking care of programs and other software out of date issues, I am not 100% protected, but better than just running and waiting for the next Black VNC type attack..lol