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DaveLembke

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Minecraft questions
« on: July 24, 2012, 11:04:23 AM »
Interested in trying out Minecraft after seeing some cool game footage on youtube. What is best version to play as for it seems as though there are many variants out there? Also to play i am guessing there is a server/database involved or is it stand alone?

I'd google it, but cant from corporate network "filters" so figured I'd ask here since I remember seeing someone here refer to minecraft at some point in the past.

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Re: Minecraft questions
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2012, 01:21:27 PM »
Interested in trying out Minecraft after seeing some cool game footage on youtube. What is best version to play as for it seems as though there are many variants out there? Also to play i am guessing there is a server/database involved or is it stand alone?

I'd google it, but cant from corporate network "filters" so figured I'd ask here since I remember seeing someone here refer to minecraft at some point in the past.

There is only one variant of Minecraft. It's called... Minecraft. However, there are typically two versions.

1.The free version, which used to be called "creative" before the paid-version added creative mode in version 1.8; now it's called classic. This version is technically a VERY early version of minecraft. Some distinguishing features include a limited map size, no resource collection, blocks break instantly, there are no mobs, and there is very little interaction with the game world; no redstone, for example, no mechanics, etcetera. This is on-line only.

2.The paid-for version. This is about a million times better IMO. This version has survival mode, where you collect resources, build houses, structures, storage locations, and use things like redstone, levers, pistons, etcetera to create neat automated contraptions. It also features "mobs" both hostile and friendly;you can kill pigs, cows, and chicken for pork, beef, and chicken as well as leather and feathers; Sheep can be used for wool which you can dye; These animals can also be bred so you can have a nice little farm going, too. It also has hostile mobs; these include skeletons, Zombies, Endermen, and creepers. These hostile monsters spawn in dark locations; this means that caves are usually populated with them, and they also appear above-ground after nightfall, which makes it important to have a safe, well lit location.
I like the game because it's cool to transform natural locations into your own creations. As an example, the level/world I usually play on my single player has varied terrain; I have bases all over the place; I have one in a swamp, one in a jungle, one in a desert, and one in another swamp where I found a stronghold (A fortified underground complex with treasure and a portal to the end boss dimension). I have built elevated railways going to many of these places; so I just hop in a minecart, press a button, and wait 5 minutes as I speed over the terrain. This is particularly satisfying because before I built it I would have to trek across uneven terrain, swim across rivers, etcetera to get to my different bases.

Add to this the existence of the other dimensions- particularly the nether, which is supposed to be a "*censored*" dimension, filled with ghasts, fire and brimstone, oceans of lava, and all that. It has a few unique resources- blaze, a unique mob in this area, are the only source of blaze rods which are needed to craft potion brewing stands, which you can use to create potions; blaze rods can be craft on their own into blaze powder, which you can craft with a slimeball to create magma cream, which you can use in a potion to create a potion making you invulnerable to fire (which is invaluable in the nether, due to the aforementioned seas of fire); it has glowstone, which is useful for a few purposes, as well as nether fortresses which are made from a unique netherbrick material that can be collected, and also have "nether wart" farms. Nether wart being a critical ingredient for many potions, too. One powerful thing for the nether is as a form of travel. A "nether portal" can be built in either the nether or in the overworld, and is the way to first get there; it is created by creating a frame of obsidian, and lighting it on fire with a flint & steel. However, when in the nether, building another nether portal some distance away will take you to a location in the overworld 8 times that distance, making it very useful for fast travel. My snow-bound base is located over 3 kilometers from the original portal in the overworld, which would probably take maybe 45 minutes of real time to walk to, but only takes about a minute each way from the nether.

I also like being able to hoard materials, like iron, gold, diamonds, redstone, lapis-lazuli, etc. stone/iron/diamond are used for tools, diamond being the best; because if my excess diamond I only use diamond now; I usually also "enchant" the tools I create, because I have a enchanting table in each of my bases. Enchantments give special abilities to tools; some might make it so you can pick up blocks directly; for example, normally, when you break a grass block, you get a dirt block; an enchantment of "silk touch" allows you to pick up the grass block itself. Others exist for getting more from certain blocks (fortune) having enemies drop more items (looting) and various other enchantments.

Single player is like starting in a world and then making it your own.

Multiplayer extends this concept to, well, many people. THIS is where you are seeing variations, because servers can run various plugins and capabilities; single player has "mods", too, but these have myriad problems. Most people see variation in the server sense, since servers run all sorts of different plugins. Typically plugins make it possible to trade items, add "money" for purchasing and selling items, and so forth; as well as things to protect from griefing, which is when somebody just goes around breaking things, destroying things, or building giant phallusses around the server.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

DaveLembke

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Re: Minecraft questions
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2012, 03:34:02 PM »
Thanks for all the useful info BC. That minecart sounds so cool to get around quickly. On youtube I saw some people talking about private minecraft servers that their friends game thru their servers so I thought it was like open source etc where anyone can serve it up. Im going to give the pay-to-play version a try since its loaded with features that sound cool, and look cool on youtube videos. And lmao on the last sentence about what some people were building in the world. Not sure if there is a way to have a server look for structures in this shape or not to instantly destroy or if a GM has to manually destroy them. Definately would not want to be gaming and see the original cover of Little Mermaid with hidden adult structures in minecrafts background.

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Re: Minecraft questions
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2012, 04:35:01 PM »
Not sure if there is a way to have a server look for structures in this shape or not to instantly destroy or if a GM has to manually destroy them.
griefing comes in two forms: people going around breaking stuff, people building stupid pointless stuff- the former is far more frequent, since it's a lot easier. Often a "greifer" will pour lava or set fire to things.

Normally, on a "vanilla" minecraft server, fixing it can be expensive both in time as well as resources. Plugins for servers (such as bukkit, which is the most popular plugin-based server; the bukkit team are actually part of Mojang now (the company that makes Minecraft). Plugins perform several useful functions for operators and administrators of a server.

1. Find out who REALLY broke something or griefed. griefers will sometimes point fingers at other players, so it becomes he-said she said unless there were witnesses. Many servers use a plugin called "logblock" which keeps a record of who put what block where. In the case of Minecraft, this is very helpful because it also serves as proof that somebody is a griefer. This is also useful on servers that frown on stealing, since you can see and prove that somebody took things.

2. in addition to the above, changes can be rolled back. So if a griefer sets fire to a house, or pours lava on a persons farm, or what-have-you, a operator just has to enter a command to revert all changes made by the griefer, and everything is fixed.

Other plugins are available which make gameplay changes, or add a leveling system (mcMMO) which means that you gain levels at various tasks which gives you a few abilities and enhancements over time. As an example, a high "mining" level allows you to break blocks slightly faster and sometimes get double from a block; but it also gives you the ability  to use "Super Breaker" which let's you break any block instantly for a limited time, which is incredibly useful on obsidian, which typically takes a very long time to mine. Higher levels means better "perks" and they last longer or have more effect.

Overall I have to say it's the game I play the most out of all the games I have, so for me that 15 dollars has really gone far. I also got to watch it go from Alpha, to Beta, and finally to release, and it is still getting very cool updates. Even the tiniest change can garner huge possibilities, especially when dealing with redstone mechanics for controlling mechanisms. Some cool stuff I've built:

-An "automatic" cactus farm. Cactus grow on sand and will grow up to three blocks high. Cactus can be cooked to make a green dye for wool, so I have a cactus farm near my 'dye workshop' where I've organized all my flowers, dyes, and so forth, which can be useful for building pixel art.

Normally, you would harvest cactus just by breaking it yourself; the problem with this is it can take a while, and if piece breaks and hits another cactus block it will be destroyed. My solution was to make some riggings underneath the floor. The cactus grows on the sand, but underneath each block of sand is a piston. I have all the pistons connected to a single switch, so by turning it on, I lift the sand up one block. blocks like cactus, wheat, pumpkins, melons, etc. that grow will "break" when you move them, so the cactus all breaks, and I just walk and pick it all up and replant it :D. I did something similar for my melon and pumpkin farm, I basically just walk down a corridor which causes me to walk over buttons that control a set of pistons. I'd take some screenshots for you but I don't have my desktop computer at the moment.

One of my favourite creations is my "grass" farm.

"Grass" or wild grass was added in Beta 1.5, and grows on... well, grass. You can grow it yourself with bone-meal, which you get from bones which you get from skeletons. using bone meal on grass grows grass and flowers in a given radius.

However, another interesting thing is that if grass, or flowers are on a block with a light level that is too low, they will "pop" out of the ground and become pickups the next time the block is updated (which happens when something nearby changes).

So, I made a grass machine, which is a box with a grass floor that has a small winding pathway that prevents any light from getting inside. It has lights inside so the grass (on the blocks themselves) stays around when I'm not using it. However, when I press a switch, it activates a clock mechanism underneath that continuously toggles a bunch of redstone wire underneath the floor, and shuts the lights off. So, when I go inside and place bone meal, because the redstone is immediately beneath it is constantly updating and instantly I get the seeds and flowers from the placed grass.

Oh I also made a "skeleton cannon" which is probably the most amusing thing I made.

sometimes you can encounter "dungeons" underground, which are just small cubes with a monster spawner inside- a spawner is a special block that, well, spawns a given monster. I found a skeleton dungeon close to the surface, and built a contraption around it. the skeletons spawn inside, but immediately fall into a water stream that takes them to a passageway; they are then guided up a tube with a blocked off exit. I wait near the spawner until there are literally hundreds of skeletons, and then press another button and open the blocked doorway, and the skeletons go FLYING out of it. I made changes so they got sent into a hole where they fell and took enough damage that I could punch them without an item and be able to finish them off.

I also tried to do the same thing with a two cave spider spawners (cave spiders, nasty things, their spawners appear in abandoned mineshafts). They are supposed to be forced through a spiralling glass tube that eventually merge together and sends them down a chute where they land on a fencepost, leaving them with 1 health where I could stand and punch them to finish them off (so I can get the experience points for enchanting). It doesn't seem to work properly and I haven't been back there for quite some time.

I think I looked at those two structures in this video, but I'm not sure. Most of it is me wandering about a cave mining and killing the monsters I encounter.

Other interesting things that can be built include "mob grinders" which is where you build a giant box that is pitch-dark inside allowing monsters to spawn, and then force them into a water stream where they meet some sort of grisly fate. and you can collect their drops. One particularly interesting one I saw was one that was engineered so spiders wouldn't spawn because it didn't have any 2x2 area, which spiders need; the system would guide the monsters (skeletons, zombies, and creepers) down a chute and water stream, and was actually able to separate them by taking advantage of their unique behaviours.

Zombies, for example, will try to attack any villagers they see, so the system had a opening where zombies would see a villager, leave the normal stream, and then be forced down a different stream for only zombies. Creepers are afraid of ocelots, so by putting an ocelot near said villager and a route on the opposite side, the creepers will run down that chute and can be forced down another path, and then all that is left in the original chute are the skeletons. I thought it was a very clever use of the behaviours of the monsters. I didn't even know creepers ran away from ocelots, for one thing. It's seeing the everyday stuff being used as core mechanics for unconventional "machines" that I think is pretty cool, too.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

Allan

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Re: Minecraft questions
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2012, 04:37:58 PM »
BC _Programmer is BACK ;D

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Re: Minecraft questions
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2012, 04:38:42 PM »
BC _Programmer is BACK ;D

I never left! I just like Minecraft :P
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

DaveLembke

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Re: Minecraft questions
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2012, 04:53:14 PM »
Went to try the free online play and all the servers are reporting this error message with certificate, so I am going to run this on my beater laptop in which security isn't important. I build and blow away the drive on this laptop frequently vs my highly configured gaming system I am on now. Core2 Duo and GeForce 7300 should be plenty of power on my old Toshiba laptop to play this.

Thanks for all the extra details about the game, sounds really cool!!!!




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Re: Minecraft questions
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2012, 05:01:42 PM »
FWIW: For the "classic" free to play version, I almost dismissed the game entirely when I tried that.

I played it for a bit, went "people actually <like> this, and was about to not give it another thought. Then people were talking about skeletons, creepers, zombies, pigs, redstone, and I was trying to figure out what the heck they were talking about; that stuff is only in the "actual" game. So I figured it was only 15 dollars, and bought it. Definitely glad I did!

PS: the game requires an older version of LWJGL, so it's likely the certificate is for the latest version. Though I don't know. I never play the 'classic' f2p version.
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DaveLembke

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Re: Minecraft questions
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2012, 08:42:03 PM »
Gonna take your suggestion to just buy it. I've seen lots of cool stuff on youtube in regards to minecraft and want to interact with it and be creative. Mind if I send you questions once I get playing if I have any, via the mail system here?

Thanks  8)

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Re: Minecraft questions
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2012, 08:48:11 PM »
Gonna take your suggestion to just buy it. I've seen lots of cool stuff on youtube in regards to minecraft and want to interact with it and be creative.
Sounds good. Like I said I was sorta on the fence myself. I bought it and wasn't sure if I'd like it. after playing it nearly 36 hours straight without even realizing how much time was passing I came to the conclusion that I liked it :P
Quote
Mind if I send you questions once I get playing if I have any, via the mail system here?
No problem! or make another thread, you never know what other people searching the web might find helpful :P
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

DaveLembke

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Re: Minecraft questions
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2012, 08:12:40 AM »
Quote
after playing it nearly 36 hours straight without even realizing how much time was passing I came to the conclusion that I liked it

LOL ... been there, but never went past the 28 hr mark myself. When I got in on World of Warcraft Beta way way back I hit 28 hrs and decided to call it a day when it finally gave me a headache. Prior to that only Super Mario Brothers 3 ever had me gaming  beyond the 8 hr mark in which I spent 16 hrs playing Super Mario 3 on release day for NES.

I average about 3 or 4 hrs a day gaming these days at 36 yrs old, but it use to be way more time gaming when I had lesser life responsibilities..LOL

The one day I used the /played feature of WoW and added up all my toons that still exist for time, came out to be over 9 months of gaming over almost 7 years, and that doesnt account for many toons I got to level 20 thru 40 that I deleted and have unaccounted play time for. Couldnt believe that I amassed over 9 months of continuous play time over those 7 years in just WoW and during that time I also played many many other games as well.

We all have our addictions, and Video Games have been mine since the late 1970's on Intelevison and Sears Telesys/Atari2600.  ;D