Bios won't display; not power supply or video card problem

[jeremysalwen]

I have a desktop computer with a gigabyte GA-870a-UD3 motherboard, AMD Phenom X6 1100T CPU, xtremegear XG-P700 power supply, GTX460 graphics card.

Symptoms:
My problems started yesterday, when I tried to turn on my computer after not using it for a week.  It wouldn't boot, sometimes freezing at the BIOS splash screen, sometimes not loading the BIOS at all but the fans just whirring, sometimes taking a long time to load the BIOS, but eventually doing so and booting fine.  Once it froze at the windows login screen, and it also sometimes booted up normally.  However, after a couple hours of gaming, it froze.  I took off the case and laid my computer on its side, as it previously had issues overheating. This seemed to make it boot up easier, and when I put it upright and closed the case, it wouldn't boot.  at one point I put the computer upright while it was on, and this caused it to immediately crash.  While it was working, I did get I chance to monitor the temperature while I was gaming, and it did not seem excessively high (45C while idling, 60C while gaming.  my previous problems were due to crashes at exactly 62C, but I had since fixed a motherboard setting and it had operated at well above 62C without any problems).  Today, I have tried to get it to turn on several times, and the best I have gotten is freezing at the BIOS splash.  It still seemed to be sensitive to being upright vs on its side, but at this point it's deteriorated to the point that nothing I can do will make anything happen beyond turning on the fans.

What I have tried:
I have tried removing the CMOS battery and replacing it.
I have tried resetting the BIOS using the jumper pins according to the instructions in the motherboard manual.
I have tried reseating the RAM and GPU, as well as disconnecting and reconnecting all the internal connections.
I have tried disconnecting everything (including all power) from the motherboard except the keyboard (my keyboard has a light on it which turns on when the BIOS loads)
I've tried disconnecting everything except the GPU.
I have tried testing the power supply using the paperclip method: the power to the motherboard and GPU are all well within the tolerances.
I have looked inside the case and shaken it up for any spare parts causing shorts

throughout all of this, I have gotten exactly the same result: power on causes fans to spin, and the power button light to turn on, and absolutely nothing else.  The power button will work if you hold it for 5 seconds, and that is it.

What I think I have ruled out:
I don't think it could be a problem with any of my drives, as nothing works even when they are completely disconnected
I don't think it is my keyboard as the light on my keyboard was still turning on even when my computer froze at the BIOS splash screen, and it still doesn't load at all when I disconnect my keyboard.
I don't think it's my RAM, as it still wouldn't work when I removed all my RAM
I don't think it's my videocard, as my USB keyboard will not light up even when the GPU is removed.
I don't think it's my power supply as I checked all the voltages and they are correct.

At this point that leaves me thinking it's something wrong with my motherboard or CPU.   Any help at this point would be appreciated.

Also, one last thing, my computer does not beep at all when turning on.  One of my drives did when it was connected (even when the BIOS wouldn't load) but the stripped down system does not make any beeping noises (which I know can be error codes).

[patio]

Your paperclip test does not rule out a flakey PSU...borrow 1 of the same or greater wattage and swap it in there...

That being stated if it doesn't power up properly you need to remove the components from the case and do a proper bench-test adding 1 component at a time before you assume it's the MBoard or CPU...or both.
Post back with results.

P.S. Remove the vid card for this test as it may be a likely culprit...and use only 1 stik of RAM for your bench-test.

[jeremysalwen]

Thank you, I don't have access to another power supply at this point, but I will try a bench test roughly following these instructions: http://www.techsupportforum.com/forums/f255/how-to-bench-test-troubleshoot-your-system-171424.html

[patio]

Looks like you found a good guide to get started...bring us good news.

[jeremysalwen]

I set up a bench test, just the power supply, motherboard, 1 stick of RAM, and the graphics card.  the fans all run, but there is no output to the screen, and the keyboard light does not turn on.  I also tried without the graphics card, and the keyboard still did not light up.  There were no beeps.

[patio]

PS2 or USB keyboard ? ?
Try without the vid card as suggested above...this is a known good monitor...correct ?

[jeremysalwen]

I tried it without the video card.  Nothing happens except the fans spinning.  The monitor is known good (currently working with my laptop).

The keyboard is USB, not PS2

[Lisa_maree]

Do you have a speaker you could attach to the front panel connector on the motherboard.
This will beep in a pattern if the computer can't display.
There are tables to decode the beep sequence and point to where the problem could be.

 

[Computer_Commando]

...I took off the case and laid my computer on its side, as it previously had issues overheating. This seemed to make it boot up easier, and when I put it upright and closed the case, it wouldn't boot.  at one point I put the computer upright while it was on, and this caused it to immediately crash....

This could indicated:
1.  Something is loose or not well connected, i.e. cpu fan, graphics card.
2.  Foreign object inside causing a short circuit.

[jeremysalwen]

I attached the motherboard to the front panel audio, (same setup as before, just a single memory stick, nothing attached to the motherboard except the keyboard) and it did not make any noise, with or without the graphics card installed.

I have double checked the connections and reseating everything multiple times has not helped.  I checked again for possible shorts but found nothing.

I have purchased a new power supply to test, and I will get back with the results.

[jeremysalwen]

I tried it with a brand new power supply, and it is behaving exactly the same.  No beep, no keyboard light, no video.  I've tried it with and without the GPU installed, and with or without the front audio jack connected.

One thing which I realize I should have mentioned before is that I have an Asetek 510LC cooler.  The fan on the heatsink runs fine, and it seems the pump also works based on the noise and vibrations (I remember the sound and feel from when it was working), but perhaps this is somehow causing the problem

[Computer_Commando]

Asetek LCLC Cooler


Seems likely, this is the problem.  Could been LOC (Loss of Coolant).
http://www.asetek.com/desktop/technology/how-liquid-cooling-works.aspx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=npJZH5u6plM



510LC
Factory Filled and Sealed, No Refilling Needed

Not going to be easy to test it, unless you can remove it & power it up with +12VDC.  Then you could heat up the cold plate with a heat gun & see if the radiator gets warm.

Put the standard cpu fan on first.  If it works return the Asetek.

[jeremysalwen]

How would I test this? I tried swapping the pump and radiator fans power connectors (the theory being that the motherboard detected the pump not working and thus refused to boot) but nothing changed.  No video, no beep, no light.  Why would a cooler failure cause this problem where the BIOS won't even load?  would it be through permanent damage to my CPU?

I can say that the radiator has been heating up when I leave the computer on, and rather quickly too.  If I leave the computer on for a few minutes in its current dead state, the radiator will become obviously warm to the touch

[Computer_Commando]

How would I test this? I tried swapping the pump and radiator fans power connectors (the theory being that the motherboard detected the pump not working and thus refused to boot) but nothing changed.  No video, no beep, no light.  Why would a cooler failure cause this problem where the BIOS won't even load?  would it be through permanent damage to my CPU?

I assume it uses the same 4-pin power connector that the standard cpu fan/heatsink uses?
+12V, +12V return (gnd), tachometer output, pwm input.
There's 2 power connectors?  pump & radiator fan?  The pump should be the 4-pin, radiator fan 3-pin.

I'm making an educated guess here, never seen one of these.

If mobo doesn't see tach output, it won't power up.  This is prior to BIOS.  These are the protective features at work so you don't damage the cpu.

AMD Phenom X6 1100T CPU has TDP of 125W.  How long can you keep your finger on a 100W lightbulb after you turn it on?  That's how quickly this heats up.

Coolant appears to be some kind of antifreeze, you would know if it leaks.
Datasheet doesn't show electrical connections.

http://www.asetek.com/media/645/510lc_data_sheet.pdf

Don't know what this means:  Pump power draw will increase when automatic or interactive fan control options are added.

Is it possible that the pump fan is not spinning freely?  Some kind of dust ball jamming it up?  Low tach output will cause the symptoms you see.
Radiator fan is not mentioned on website, because good case fan will cool the radiator.

Post some pics of your setup, so we can see the fans & connections.

Pump fan is inside this?


They only show the coldplate.

[jeremysalwen]

I tried looking up datasheet or manual information, but I wasn't able to find anything.   The manual for the motherboard doesn't mention how to install this type of cooler either. I didn't actually buy or install this cooler, but it was installed when I sent the computer in on warranty over overheating issues two years ago.  It has worked well since then, including circumstances where it was running at 100% CPU and GPU load for hours at a time.  I see no signs of coolant leak.

I just tested now and I can feel the tubes warm up within seconds of turning it on from a cold start.

The way it was originally set up, the 3-pin pump was plugged into the 4-pin "cpu_fan" slot, and the 4-pin radiator fan, was plugged into the 3-pin "pwr_fan" slot.  I don't really understand the choice.   As I said, I didn't originally install the cooler.  I have switched the connections, but that does not fix anything.

EDIT:

Yes, I am referring to the case fan as the "radiator fan", as it is directly connected to the radiator.  And yes, the pump is located inside of the module you linked an image of.  It's very well encased, so I doubt any external disturbance could clog it.  I will post pictures