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Author Topic: Optimize? Older Non-TRIM Samsung SSD For Windows 7 Pro 64bit  (Read 3844 times)

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DartMan 68

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Optimize? Older Non-TRIM Samsung SSD For Windows 7 Pro 64bit
« on: April 02, 2016, 08:58:22 PM »
This is my first ssd and I wish to help it to last as long as possible. I have searched many sites and tutorials for optimization and maintenance tips. There is so much conflicting information that I don't know what to and what not to do. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

The ssd is a Samsung-made for HP 128GiB model MMCRE28G5MXP-0VBH1 with firmware VBM1AH1Q (TRIM not enabled) mfr-date 2010.03.21 and HP p/n 500586-001. It was used when I got it, salvaged from an i3 Panasonic ToughBook CF 52. I cloned my hdd to it and installed it in my laptop, an upgraded 2008 ThinkPad R500 M/T 2714CTO. Even 6-yrs old, it has made a major difference for the better. By upgraded, I mean from a C2D P8600 to C2D T9800 CPU, from 1GB DDR3 to 8GB DDR3, and from Vista Home Basic 32bit to 7 Professional 64bit.

I installed Intel's ToolBox and read the S.M.A.R.T. data. Seems OK. I ran winsat on both the hdd, a Samsung 80GB model HM080JI, and the ssd. Significantly better results from one to the other. I've attached 2 snips, one of the mechanical and one of the ssd, of the winsat results.

Suggestions included shrinking partition by 8-10%, setting static pagefile, disabling hibernate, system restore, vss/vsc, drive indexing, defrag, search, superfetch, prefetch, readyboot, file compression, write caching, hdd shutdown timeout, and others. I would like help to decide which suggestions to follow and which not to follow.

I plan to keep this drive for as long as possible, though I plan to upgrade eventually to s Samsung EVO 850 128GiB or 256GiB.

[attachment deleted by admin to conserve space]

Calum

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Re: Optimize? Older Non-TRIM Samsung SSD For Windows 7 Pro 64bit
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2016, 07:48:32 AM »
Firstly, congrats on the "new" SSD, as you've seen it's made a major difference so that's great.

I would say not to worry much about the lack of TRIM support, your drive almost certainly has a function called "garbage collection" built in which essentially is a much less aggressive form of TRIM which takes place whilst the drive is idle.  If you're worried about the performance degrading, just benchmark the drive every so often and see how it's holding up - maybe every 2-3 weeks, just to see if anything's changing.  It does vary from drive to drive depending how good the garbage collection routines are, but you should find that for normal use, performance won't degrade.  If it does, you have two options - either try to help the drive's garbage collection out by leaving the drive idle, e.g. by leaving the laptop in the BIOS for a few hours so that the drive isn't being accessed at all, or take an image backup, secure erase the SSD, then restore from the backup.  Obviously the latter is much more time consuming, it also shouldn't be necessary.

Windows 7 doesn't really need any special tweaks to "optimise" for SSDs, but let me just quickly run through the suggestions you've mentioned below.

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shrinking partition by 8-10%
If you wanted to "overprovision" a drive, this is how you'd do it - well, you'd want to secure erase the drive first, then during Windows setup, create a partition that's around 10% smaller than the total drive space.  This leaves that unused space free for the controller to use to allocate writes across, and can supposedly extend the lifetime of the drive.  Realistically, there's no way you'd "wear out" an SSD so the claims of extending lifespan aren't something the average user would see.  If you had a specific, write-intensive workload, then this may be of use, but you'd probably be better off with a modern enterprise-class SSD for that, or at the very least an SLC-based drive with much higher endurance.  In other words, this suggestion doesn't make sense for 99.9% of use cases, so I wouldn't recommend it.
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setting static pagefile
If you have a lot of RAM, the page file Windows creates can get pretty large, so you may want to set this to a specific size to free up some space, but that's the only benefit of this.  With 8GB of RAM and a 128GB drive, you shouldn't need to do this, I'd leave it alone.
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disabling hibernate
Again this is mainly for freeing up disk space, in your case it would save you 8GB (equal to the amount of RAM you have).  If you don't use hibernate, by all means disable it to get that disk space back.
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system restore
If you're desperate for space, maybe...again I don't see much point in this but if you absolutely, positively will never have to use a system restore point or restore a previous version of a file, go right ahead.  By default system restore won't take up more than a certain percentage of drive space so it's not like it's going to go totally out of control, you can always limit it further if you want to (any restore points that take the disk space used over this threshold will be deleted).
Quote
vss/vsc
Guessing this follows on from the above, same answer.
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drive indexing
Not sure why this is often recommended, I leave it enabled since searches take longer without files being indexed.
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defrag
Windows 7 will detect an SSD and won't defrag it automatically, no need to do anything with this.
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search
Guessing this is related to indexing?  Again I don't see why this would be disabled.
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superfetch
Windows manages this and "knows" what to do with it, no need to mess with this.
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prefetch
As above.
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readyboot
Readyboot or Readyboost?  If the latter, this is something you'd have to manually set up, it provides no benefit on the vast majority of systems so just don't set it up.
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file compression
I've seen this recommended working on the theory that as drives and CPUs have got so much faster, compression doesn't have a huge impact on performance and can save some disk space.  If you need the disk space by all means play around with this, but I've never found it to be too worthwhile.
Quote
write caching
If this is the setting in device manager to enable/disable write caching, this is normally enabled by default so there's usually no need to change this.  It's a quick and easy change to make and revert so feel free to experiment though.
Quote
hdd shutdown timeout
I always set this to 0 (disabled) for SSDs, without doing some Googling I don't know how extensively this has been tested but I know there have been some issues with certain models and power saving modes, considering how little power SSDs typically use anyway there's no great benefit to letting it shut down even if it can do.

The thing to bear in mind is that SSDs have been fairly mainstream for around 7 or 8 years now and they've changed massively since 2008/2009.  At that time, there were many suggestions floating around based on various theories, not all of which were right, added to the fact that some of the early "mainstream" SSD controllers just weren't that great, which means that there are a vast amount of tweaks, tuning guides, and so forth which are often just regurgitated across different websites from time to time.  That's not to say it should all be ignored, but nor should every guide be followed blindly - so, you're right to check before just ploughing ahead with it all.  Hopefully this has been of some help and hopefully it makes sense!  Others may have further info to add to this but feel free to post back with further questions or if you need further clarification on anything.

DaveLembke



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Re: Optimize? Older Non-TRIM Samsung SSD For Windows 7 Pro 64bit
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2016, 08:02:45 AM »
Write Cycle Reduction is what you want. So a fixed page file size is best. Given you have as much ram as you do in that system with 8GB, you can try running it with the page file set to the bare minimum allowed by windows which is like 4mb I think. Its been a while since I shut it just about off.

On systems that I have SSD's and are desktops I have a HDD installed along side SSD and I have the page file pointed to the HDD to avoid the write cycles to the SSD. I also short stroke my HDD, creating the very first partition on the drive to the size of the page space I am using so with 4GB RAM I create a 6GB partition and let windows self manage its page file size within the short stroked 6GB partition. The additional space outside of the 6GB short stroke is for large games that have lots of read/write cycles etc.

I have had 10 SSD's in the last 6 years and 1 of them died which was in a system that it was the only drive. It was an OCZ drive that had a 3 of 5 star record online with troubles/failures. Just all of a sudden one day the system that was running the SSD BSOD. Went to repair Windows 7 and it errored out. Deleted partition. Created partition with no problem. Went to format and it would never format. Went online looking for the utility to update the firmware. Ran that to bring it up to date. Tried again and still it wont format. The OCZ SSD was a light paper weight. Junk!  No warning just bam dead. Fortunately not too much data lost. It was in my wifes windows 7 system that ran just about non stop for 2.5 years. She played lots of games on it like world of warcraft that has lots of read/write cycles. Additionally her computer only had 3GB RAM, so it was doing lots of paging when gaming. I figured that it became overworked and just died.

I trust HDD's much more than SSD's for data recovery when things go bad, but also backup my important data to a 32GB thumb drive or external 2TB HDD. All data on the SSD is assumed that it could be gone at any time without any warning! I have generally been able to get data back from HDD's unless they fail to spin up. So I have a greater level of trust in HDD's vs SSD's.

BTW... your probably already aware of this, but there is no Short Stroking for SSD's, Short Stroking is a set up on a HDD in which you place data forced to an area of the hard drive that is more quickly accessed and the heads do not have to sweep wildly all over platters to gather the data back off the drive. More efficiently grouped and less mechanical sweeping/stroking.  http://lifehacker.com/how-to-short-stroke-your-hard-drive-for-optimal-speed-1598306074

Even faster data access is a Hard Drive Simulation allocating system RAM called a RAMDISK. This allows you to allocate a section of system RAM to act like a SSD, BUT its like 10x faster than a SSD because its direct from system RAM to CPU. *I use RAMDisks on occasion when processing something with lots of read/write cycles that is less than 2GB in size to run on a 4GB RAM system. I have always wanted to get a game into this RAMDISK but I would need a system with like 32GB RAM to even be able to try that out for the large games that I'd like to run.... Maybe someday!  ;D   

Drawback to RAMDISK is that when the system is shut off the data is gone from RAM, however the RAMDISK utility writes back from RAM to HDD or SSD, and on boot it reads from HDD or SSD back to the RAM to recreate the RAMDISK. *This makes shutdowns and start ups slower as its doing this because it writes and reads from the drive almost like hibernation of the RAMDISK, BUT once fully up, anything read/written in this space is lightning fast!  ;D   http://lifehacker.com/5969767/add-a-ram-disk-to-your-computer-for-faster-than-ssd-performance

patio

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Re: Optimize? Older Non-TRIM Samsung SSD For Windows 7 Pro 64bit
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2016, 08:44:52 AM »
Very concise reply Calum....well done.
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patio

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Re: Optimize? Older Non-TRIM Samsung SSD For Windows 7 Pro 64bit
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2016, 11:20:19 AM »
Is that you moreparts ? ?.... 8)
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DartMan 68

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Re: Optimize? Older Non-TRIM Samsung SSD For Windows 7 Pro 64bit
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2016, 04:05:52 PM »
Yes, patio. It's me.

patio

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Re: Optimize? Older Non-TRIM Samsung SSD For Windows 7 Pro 64bit
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2016, 04:37:20 PM »
 :P :P
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DartMan 68

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Re: Optimize? Older Non-TRIM Samsung SSD For Windows 7 Pro 64bit
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2016, 04:39:28 PM »
Hahaha patio  :P  ;D  8)

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Re: Optimize? Older Non-TRIM Samsung SSD For Windows 7 Pro 64bit
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2016, 04:41:28 PM »
Good to seeya...
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DartMan 68

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Re: Optimize? Older Non-TRIM Samsung SSD For Windows 7 Pro 64bit
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2016, 04:50:28 PM »
Thank you, Calum. That is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you for explaining your answers. I have followed your suggestions. I will give it a few days and see how it goes. I will do as you suggest and leave the laptop in BIOS for a few hours once a week so as to give ITGC time to work. What program would you suggest for benchmarking? I'm not a very demanding user. Generally all I do is browse the Internet, chat, email, watch and download videos, do general tech searches and downloads related to the work I do, and watch DVD movies. I will not yet mark this as solved because I want to see what others have to say, if that's OK.

DartMan 68

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Re: Optimize? Older Non-TRIM Samsung SSD For Windows 7 Pro 64bit
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2016, 05:21:41 PM »
Thank you, Dave. I'm planning to order an UltraBay hdd adapter to add a second, mechanical, hdd to my ThinkPad since I rarely use the DVD drive. I have a ThinkPad external DVD drive I can use when I need to. Once I get it, I plan to do the short-stroking. Thanks for the LifeHacker links. Very informative. I may try the RAMDISK. On a side note, a friend of mine has a 2010 Apple MacBook 13 with good spec, but she says it seems slow. Would the RAMDISK help in her case?

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Re: Optimize? Older Non-TRIM Samsung SSD For Windows 7 Pro 64bit
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2016, 02:57:07 AM »
What program would you suggest for benchmarking?

Take a look at the benchmarking tools FAQ I wrote, you may find some useful tools there :)
http://www.computerhope.com/forum/index.php/topic,152837.0.html

Although saying that, I'd probably recommend either CrystalDiskMark, or AS-SSD, just because they're both simple to run and the results are simple to interpret.  With CrystalDiskMark, just change the default settings to run 1 x 500MB, instead of 5 x 1GB - this will put less writes onto the drive, if you're running it fairly often there's no point writing a huge amount of data just to benchmark the drive.
You'll mainly be looking at the write speeds to spot any degradation, bear in mind 10% or so variance between runs is not uncommon but if you see speeds dropping by maybe 50%, that would be a clue that ITGC isn't working as well as you might hope and that you may need to give it a helping hand as described above.  Hope this helps.

Also, personally I don't see the benefit of putting the paging file on a HDD.  Microsoft recommend that the page file is ideally suited to an SSD, as there are usually vastly more reads from as opposed to write to the page file.  For further information, take a look at this Technet article - it's a little old as it's from 2009 and thus addresses some limitations of SSDs which we either don't see these days or have been largely negated, but it's a good read nonetheless.  I'm mainly talking about passages such as "we see the worst of the SSDs producing very long IO times as well, as much as one half to one full second to complete individual random write and flush requests. This is abysmal for many workloads and can make the entire system feel choppy, unresponsive and sluggish." - this was typical of some of the cheaper SSDs of 2008/2009, your SSD isn't one of these, so when this sort of thing is mentioned, just remember it doesn't apply to you.
https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/e7/2009/05/05/support-and-qa-for-solid-state-drives/

DartMan 68

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Re: Optimize? Older Non-TRIM Samsung SSD For Windows 7 Pro 64bit
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2016, 04:34:34 PM »
Calum. Thanks. I've decided to use AS-SSD. The SSD is my main drive now. I have the mechanical I cloned from in an external USB case and am saving it for backup when the SSD fails. All I have to do then is to swap drives and be back up and running. Thanks for the link. It was informative.

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Re: Optimize? Older Non-TRIM Samsung SSD For Windows 7 Pro 64bit
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2016, 04:44:01 PM »
No problem, glad you found it useful :)