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Author Topic: 5Ghz a/n Randomly Drops Windows 10 PC  (Read 639 times)

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JimmyEarl

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    5Ghz a/n Randomly Drops Windows 10 PC
    « on: February 22, 2018, 01:55:36 PM »
    I don't know if this is the right forum or if you can help me.

    I have two cable modems - at my apartment and my mother-in-law's. Same cable company but different cities. I have a Netgear N450 at home and a Netgear C3700-100NAS at MiLs.

    The  C3700  has the ability to set up multiple SSID's. There is a 2.4 GHz B/G/N option, a 5 GHz A/N option, and a "Guest" (also 2.4).

    Her Blu-Ray player (my old Blu-Ray player, actually) is on the 2.4 BGN as is her printer. (Neither will connect to a 5Ghz AN connection.) Her iPhone, her iPad, my Android phone, and my Windows 10 PC all connect to the 5AN connection. (My Win 10 PC has all Windows updates and all drivers and firmware patches).

    So that's the setup. Here's the problem.

    My laptop frequently drops connectivity from the main network. The Blu-Ray, printer, phones, and iPads all maintain connectivity. The lights on the router all show all systems go.

    When I say "drops connectivity", I lose the ability to connect to anything. My wifi bars in the system tray show a full signal, but I get a little yellow exclamation point over them. When I hover over the system tray, it shows the network SSID and "No Internet Access". Clicking on it to bring up a list of networks shows the network there, but instead of reading "Connected, Secured" it reads "No Internet, Secured".

    This happens only to my laptop (not other devices) only at my mother-in-law's, not at home. This is a studio, clear line of sight to the router, and it doesn't seem to matter how close or how far the PC is from the router.

    This first started on a visit in August. It was fine on visits in November and December. This issue happened once on a January visit. I got here last night, and it started this morning. The router was installed in October 2016. I did not have the issue at all while at home between the August visit and last week.

    It appears to happen randomly. Sometimes I can have one Firefox tab open on an article, other times I have had multiple tabs with streaming video running , when it cuts out. Sometimes I'm saving something to the cloud, sometimes I'm just sitting here, when it cuts out. Sometimes I can go days with no problem, sometimes it's over and over. I have had issues in the daytime, nighttime, sunny days, rainy days, cold days, and warm days. Humidity seems to be a constant. (Hey, I'm grasping here!)

    When it cuts out, it remains out for a varying length of time. Sometimes less than a minute, sometimes ten or more minutes.

    When it happens, I can instantly switch to the Guest network and can connect to Internet (but the router prevents Guest connections from accessing the printer on the 2.4BGN). I have never had this issue on the Guest network. (And again, the Blu-Ray on the 2.4BGN network has never had this problem). Androids and iPads on the 5AN don't seem to be effected. So I presume it's how my particular laptop connects to this 5AN network.

    Sometimes rebooting helps.

    Here's what I have done, based on Google suggestions (not in order):
    • Confirmed my drivers are up-to-date
    • Uninstalled the drivers and let Windows reinstall on a reboot
    • Run the Troubleshooter
    • 'Forgotten' the networks, rebooted, and re-installed them
    • From an Administrator PowerShell window, run netsh winsock reset and netsh int ip reset and rebooted
    • Tried different channels for the 5AN network (options are 36, 40, 44, 48, 149, 153, 157, and 161. There is no "Auto" option. Originally was on 40; I have since tried 149, 157, and am now on 36. The 2.4 BGN is set for "Auto" but seems to always choose channel 6 or 11. The Guest network doesn't have the ability to see/adjust its channel.)
    • Changed the value for TxAMSDU from 1 to 0 at HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Services\mrvlpcie8897
    • Used Window's Network Reset command

    In Device Manager=>Network Card=>Advanced Properties:
    • Band is set to "Auto" (other options = "2.4GHz only", "5GHz only")
    • Packet Coalescing is set to "Enabled" (other option = "Disabled")
    • Wake on Pattern Match is set to "Enabled" (other option = "Disabled")
    • WMM-PS is set to "Optimized" (other option = "High Performance")
    Its driver is up-to-date. (There is one weird anomaly in Events - Under "Device Install Requested", the Information field reads: "Device PCI\VEN_11AB&DEV_2B38&SUBSYS_045E0003&REV_00\4&91a2562&0&00E8 requires further installation", BUT one minute later is a "Device Installed" message, so I presume that's OK.)

    I am on a Surface running Windows 10 Pro. Is there just something unstable about 5N and whatever is in my PC?

    I have seen some posts on MSFT Community about negative "dbm" values (is that signal strength?) but don't understand the information, and don't know what to do with it.

    Thank you for your advice.

    Geek-9pm


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    Re: 5Ghz a/n Randomly Drops Windows 10 PC
    « Reply #1 on: February 22, 2018, 03:40:55 PM »
    Wow! That is very unusual.   :o

    One detail needs verification.
    Quote
    This happens only to my laptop (not other devices) only at my mother-in-law's, not at home. This is a studio, clear line of sight to the router, and it doesn't seem to matter how close or how far the PC is from the router.
    Are you sure? It is very hard to nail down a random thug that seems to happen in only one place. Have you  done this many times?

    Did you say it does no matter how close you are to the router?  How close? Within two meters?  Inside of two meters, with no obstacles, interference should be almost impossible. Unless something in the environment is very, very bad.

    What other kind of electronic or electrical devices are in the location? A microwave over? An X-Ray machine? A 3-D printer?  Florescent light fixtures?  Radio controlled model cars? An fish tank? ** Anything that uses electrical power.

    Yes, anything that uses electrical power can create severe interference to microwave devices. Some have thought that devices in the 5G  band are  not subject to radio interference. It has been documented.

    ** Not a joke. In one three very rare case a aquarium heater cause very high levels of radio interference at random. This was documented some time ago.


    JimmyEarl

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      Re: 5Ghz a/n Randomly Drops Windows 10 PC
      « Reply #2 on: February 22, 2018, 03:54:12 PM »
      Am I sure about which part?

      You can never be sure.

      I have never observed this behavior on any network other than my MIL's. When my PC - the only Windows device around - drops connectivity, all other available devices (Androids, iPads, Blu-Rays) maintain their connection. And, yes, see several paragraphs later about the "many times".

      Of course it's hard when it only appears in one place. If it was easy I wouldn't have to ask for help.

      I did indeed say it does not seem to matter how close I am to the router. I don't do meters, but like I siad it is a studio apartment with no clear obsrtuctions. And while my mother-in-law would no doubt love to X-Ray her 3D-printed radio-controlled cars, she has none of those toys. A Blu-Ray hooked up to a flatscreen. An iPod recharging station. A small briefcase of C4, but we both pretend it's not there (there are no batteries in the timer). A microwave (which, to my knowledge, has never been actively operating during or prior to an outage). No fish tank.

      Geek-9pm


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      Re: 5Ghz a/n Randomly Drops Windows 10 PC
      « Reply #3 on: February 22, 2018, 05:53:44 PM »
      JimmyEarl,
      OK, maybe this might beef some help. Somebody with Surface Pro hands-on experience might come in. What is needed dis more information about any kind of trouble people have had with Surface Pro wireless interface.
      Most likely you have already did a lot of Google search and did not get a solution.
      You already saw these... - Right?

      https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/30d6e7a4-837d-4b76-90d7-3260b0559ca9/marvel-adapter-driver-in-surface-pro-4-problems?forum=win10itprohardware

      https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/insider_wintp-insider_web-insiderplat_pc/wifi-problems-on-surface-pro-4-and-build-14376/8acf0aef-3566-4413-a8a9-7ec1239ed380

      This is about using an external monitor.
      https://dgit.com/microsoft-surface-pro-4-problems-fixes-35284/
      Do you have an external monitor? It just might mess with the wireless.
      There was an issue with the Surface Pro 3
      https://tomssl.com/2015/01/15/fix-the-wifi-on-your-surface-pro-3/
      Quote
      If you have a Surface Pro 3 or any other Windows 8.1 or Windows 10 device and are having WiFi issues when resuming from sleep/hibernate and often have to reset your wireless network adapter or reboot to reconnect to WiFi then this might help. Just download the fix from https://github.com/TomChantler/Restart-WiFi-Adapter and import it into your Task Scheduler by running install.bat and it should automatically reset your WiFi adapter each time you resume from sleep/hibernate. It's a one-click procedure which doesn't install any files.
      Come to think about it, the sleep and hibernate stuff can be a problem with any PC
      So you might consider turning off all stand-by and hibernate features altogether.

      rjbinney



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      Re: 5Ghz a/n Randomly Drops Windows 10 PC
      « Reply #4 on: February 22, 2018, 09:59:39 PM »
      I thought by it showing that it had bars, you should still be able to get into the router through your browser, or still be able to print, regardless of the yellow triangle.

      After all, just because there's no internet connection, you're still connected to and still bouncing around inside my internal network, yes?.
      Dan: You're gonna need to get someone to fix my computer.                     Kim: What's wrong with it?                     Dan: It's in several pieces on my floor.

      camerongray



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      Re: 5Ghz a/n Randomly Drops Windows 10 PC
      « Reply #5 on: February 23, 2018, 08:04:06 AM »
      Does this have any relation to distance from the router, e.g. do you still get drops when you are right next to it?  The 5GHz frequency is more easily blocked by obstacles so even though there is less interference in that band, the signals will often not travel as far as 2.4GHz ones.

      JimmyEarl

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        Re: 5Ghz a/n Randomly Drops Windows 10 PC
        « Reply #6 on: February 23, 2018, 03:54:19 PM »
        Does this have any relation to distance from the router, e.g. do you still get drops when you are right next to it?  The 5GHz frequency is more easily blocked by obstacles so even though there is less interference in that band, the signals will often not travel as far as 2.4GHz ones.

        This happens only to my laptop (not other devices) only at my mother-in-law's, not at home. This is a studio, clear line of sight to the router, and it doesn't seem to matter how close or how far the PC is from the router.

        Geek-9pm


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        Re: 5Ghz a/n Randomly Drops Windows 10 PC
        « Reply #7 on: February 23, 2018, 04:16:37 PM »
        The remarks I gave were not about signal strength or lack of same. Rather, there just might be a unknown device causing random interference with the Wireless.

        Another question. The first post might seem to suggest that the problem does not appear on the lower band, 2.4 GHz. Is that true? If so, why try to solve the  5GHz issue? Is more bandwidth needed? The bandwidth on 2.4 GHz is enough for HD video streaming. Does the  and the 5 GHz  otherwise work better?

        Devices that have nothing to do with computers and networks can, in a rare case, generate  bad interference with wireless.

        JimmyEarl

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          Re: 5Ghz a/n Randomly Drops Windows 10 PC
          « Reply #8 on: February 26, 2018, 11:01:52 AM »
          I'd say I'm pretty clear I only notice this behavior on the 5 A/N not the 2.4 B/G.

          And why do I care? Because it doesn't work, I believe it should, and I would like to resolve it. Clearly I have adaptive actions I can take; I would like the corrective.

          Geek-9pm


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          Re: 5Ghz a/n Randomly Drops Windows 10 PC
          « Reply #9 on: February 27, 2018, 09:55:27 PM »
          OK. You say 2.4 is good and 5 fails and you need to know why
          I had an answer and my browser ruined my work.
          The browser ate my work.  >:(

          Anyway, here is a list of free software to help anyone study a Wi-Fi network

          https://www.networkworld.com/article/2925081/wi-fi/8-free-wi-fi-stumbling-and-surveying-tools.html

          https://www.netspotapp.com/best-wifi-analyzer-windows-apps.html

          These are free tools. You might think about getting  an external  Wi-Fi adapter just to see if it would make a difference.
          https://www.lifewire.com/top-wi-fi-usb-adapters-2377825
          But check to see which  are dual  band.
          BTW, in some some areas can use another band for Wi-Fi.
          This blurb from Cisco / Linksys  has some information about tri-band devices.
          https://www.linksys.com/us/r/resource-center/basics/multiple-wifi-bands-difference/
          Quote
          Tri-Band Pros
              More connected devices are less likely to negatively affect Wi-Fi speeds
              Three separate Wi-Fi bands means three times the bandwidth
              You can dedicate each band to devices in the home or office
              More bands equals less interference
              High CPU speeds make faster file transfers and smoother handling of multiple Wi-Fi-connected devices

          Tri-Band Cons
              Significantly higher cost than dual-band models
              If you don't have a lot of 5 GHz-compatible Wi-Fi devices, the upgrade might not be too noticeable
          Take note of that last bit—if you're in a studio apartment rocking a laptop, a smartphone, and a gaming console, sticking with your dual-band router is probably a safe bet. But if you plan on Netflix-ing 4K movies downstairs while your spouse streams recipe videos from a tablet in the kitchen, your kid's Pandora station never stops, and your guest harbors a World of Warcraft addiction, it might just be time to add that third traffic lane to your home's Wi-Fi freeway.
          Hope this might help.  :)
          EDIT: Note that in the USA many bans are available .
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels
          Wireless local area network channels using IEEE 802.11 protocols are sold mostly under the trademark WiFi. The 802.11 workgroup has documented use in five distinct frequency ranges: 2.4 GHz, 3.6 GHz, 4.9 GHz, 5 GHz, and 5.9 GHz bands
          « Last Edit: February 27, 2018, 10:29:50 PM by Geek-9pm »