Computer Hope
Microsoft => Microsoft Windows => Windows Vista and 7 => Topic started by: Hankster58 on May 20, 2011, 09:41:44 AM
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Wife came home, her computer screen was up as usual... but when she tried to open anything.... computer did nothing... just the little swirly going round. Tried to do a CTL ALT DEL to bring up task manager... nothing. Did a Hard Reboot.... and the screen says this.....
"Reboot and Select proper boot device or insert boot media in selected boot device and press a key....."
Was able to run a diagnostic on it, from a program on it, via F9 at initial boot up...and it say Processor ok, RAM ok... then NO Drives are listed!!
So it looks like, the Computer cannot "see" the drives now! What happened?? Is this a Motherboard screw up? Computer is a Year old HP desktop.. 8 g of Ram... has the latest Phenom processor etc at the time (Quad core).... What do we do now? She hasn't located the dicks that came with it yet...
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Ok, did more checking... HD and CD drives DO function.. HD spins up.. put disc in CD drive and it clicks away like normal, but the COMPUTER is oblivious to them..... so even tho it SAYS put in a boot disc... and press key, I stack "any" disc in it... pressed key.. and it didn't see or read it....
Of course, this is a Windows 7 unit!
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Some historical information would help.
The model number and the year you bought it.
You HP a year ago. Please give model. Out of warranty?
Was the OS installed by the OEM?
This is a laptop - Right?
Never dropped it?
Why does it have 8GB or RAM?
Have you ever had any problems that suggest overheating?
What AV program do you have?
Do you have a backup and a recovery method?
Best guess is that part of the Hard drive MBR, or something like that, got damaged.
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Pavillion p6320f.... Phenom2X4 quad core... Win 7 64 bit... hence 8 gigs ram.... 1 Terrabyte Western Digital HD..... OS by OEM.... Desktop tower.... Never dropped.... AV is Microsoft Security Essentials... with occasional scan via MB antimalware.. and Superantispyware.... about 18 m onths old.. no warranty now.... she's dusty inside, but hasn't missed a beat up until now....
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OK
You have another PC that works. So burn a diagnostics CD that will boot the machine. There are lots out there.
OR
If you have a Windows install CD or DVD or XP, Vista to Windows 7, try to boot it up and gent into the recovery console Or at least go far enough into the install where it tells you there is or is not any hard drives found.
Hunch. Try another Hard drive instead of the Western Digital. Ask me later why. If that makes a big difference, then that is a big clue. Even an old IDE drive, if the motherboard has an IDE channel.
If the BIOS finds any other hard drive, it puts the WD drive under suspension as the price culprit.
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Try loading the BIOS defaults.
http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000976.htm
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As a follow up.. sorry took so long to reply to you! Took it to local shop.. Motherboard failure...... tested all drives etc in other units, all ok... so they're putting a new board in..... but this shop seems way overworked, and these guys are SLOW on turnaround time!! AARRGH!!
Curious tho.... what's your comment on the WD hdd's???
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Curious tho.... what's your comment on the WD hdd's???
I was not going to say anything. Both Seagate and Western Digital have had some problems with very large drives. That is over now, but it is still possible that some vendors have old stock on the sleeves. Bit that does not apply to you. Whether WD had more issues is debatable. The mere fact that WD has given a bit more trouble does not count in the big picture.
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If it's not a Green WD HDD ther is no reason to generalise...
That was the only Series they had issues with and i install a ton of HDD's.
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Both Seagate and Western Digital have had some problems with very large drives.
Source?
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Fits of all, the OP wanted a response and I opened my mouth against my better judgment. :-[ I should never has said anything. I was thinking out load and the words just showed up. :-X The phone was riming. The dog was barking.
But here is a two in one link:
About a WD 2GB
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_vista-hardware/formating-issues-with-a-wd-2tb-drive-cant-format/17f887ee-7689-4dc3-9237-ee7f3af2dfbd
But has a link to Sweagate
http://seagate.custkb.com/seagate/crm/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=206391&NewLang=en&Hilite=
Pardon me for not making these links pretty. Does this suffice for a reference, albiet nweak?
This issue is now dead, but at one time in was a serious issue with both companies, even tho their engineering was, one would think, fully independent. How would they both make the same mistake? The introduction oof 2GB eternal storage was a black eye for both companies. They fixed it. Each in their own way. Nobody came out the winner.
Does this issue need to be regurgitated again?
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Pardon me for not making these links pretty. Does this suffice for a reference, albiet nweak?
No. I wanted references for how Seagate and WD drives have problems when they are very large. Both of those links discuss issues resulting from outdated NVidia chipset (SATA controller) drivers, and the same problems would be seen regardless of the brand of drive. To reiterate: the problem in both instances was a motherboard chipset driver, not the drive itself. The fact that updating said driver fixes this problem with "the drive" makes it pretty clear that the problem wasn't with the drives at all.
but at one time in was a serious issue with both companies, even tho their engineering was, one would think, fully independent. How would they both make the same mistake?
They didn't. The problem was in Nvidia's end, with their chipset drivers. Both the Microsoft Answers thread and the Seagate KB make this rather clear. Again, the proof that it wasn't related to the drives is pretty obvious since updating the chipset driver resolves the issue.
The introduction oof 2GB eternal storage was a black eye for both companies.
2GB? I assume you mean 2TB, of course. Either way, the problem wasn't specific to those companies. Any other drive of the same size would have the same problems, and it was Driver level and had nothing to do with the hardware.
They fixed it. Each in their own way.
"Update your NVidia drivers" is the "fix" for both.
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Sorry for the typo.
There are and were a lot of companies that made and still make eternal USB drives with 2 TB of storage. The reports I have seen wee with regard to just Western Digital and Seagate. The problem was fixed by the companies themselves.
Users continue to report problems with the external 2TB drives. Many appear to be user ignorance. Still, one would ask, Why market such a device i retail stores like WlaMart and Staples if the drives could only be used with special utilities provided by the manufactures?
BC_programmer, you have some experience with system level programming. Is it really hard to build an eternal interface that will give the user help with a device? Such as as an alert saying the utility they are trying to use is not suitable for the device? You better answer yes. Something like that has already been done and you know it. It appears that the said companies made little effort to see if their stuff was compatible with what the industry was already doing. And it the users would follow the instructions. Of course, the instructions are in the bottom of the box with a warning "Read this before opening the box."
What more links? Here are a few. Pick them apart.
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Read the whoole thread.
http://forums.seagate.com/t5/Other-External-products/Seagate-Expansion-2TB-Avoid-Unless-this-Problems-is-Fixed/td-p/41304
Not answered, 5 months ago.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110102043905AAl48e6
No answer
http://www.techsupportforum.com/forums/f16/problem-w-external-2tb-fantom-green-drive-542530.html
A signature collusion?
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/14582-63-cannt-connect-external-hard-drives-once
Apple user has 'stupid software' from WD?
http://www.hackint0sh.org/f291/109483.htm
Another Apple User
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1160717
Posted this year.
http://forums.techguy.org/hardware/992257-wd-2tb-external-hard-drive.html
Many of these,if not all, are because the user does not check the documentation and stick to what the manufacture says. Still, why is it so hard for the manufacture to tell people do not use any other utilities.
Only one low end external by Seagate.
Now mention was made about drives that did not get over three stars. Or the ones that would not work at all.
http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/collection/1650/top_10_external_hard_drives.html
But ZDNet has a very long list.
If it is not on the list, pass it by.
http://www.zdnet.com/reviews/filter/external-hard-drives?categoryId=3190&filter=100021_10197437&tag=mantle_skin;content
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These are more or less user forums. Should I dip into the industry forms and newsletters?
It was never my intention to hijack this thread with a dead issue. Yet users are still complaining about external 2 TB drives. Must be a lot of NVidia chip sets out there.
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Wow...
You do believe everything you read...
Utter drivel.
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The reports I have seen wee with regard to just Western Digital and Seagate.
You KEEP mentioning "reports" but all you provide links to are forum threads. Is a forum thread your idea of a report?
The problem was fixed by the companies themselves.
Not in either of the threads you have linked so far. Both the previous "sources" were caused by outdated drivers for the SATA Controller on NForce motherboards.
Users continue to report problems with the external 2TB drives.
users continue to report problems with their computers as well. That's hardly evidence that all computer manufacturers are "having problems". Additionally, as I said, if anything the problem is related to the size of the drive.
Still, one would ask, Why market such a device i retail stores like WlaMart and Staples if the drives could only be used with special utilities provided by the manufactures?
What special utilities? What are you talking about?
BC_programmer, you have some experience with system level programming.
Drivers? somewhat.
Is it really hard to build an eternal interface that will give the user help with a device?
WHAT DOES THIS EVEN HAVE TO DO WITH SEAGATE AND WD DRIVES?
Such as as an alert saying the utility they are trying to use is not suitable for the device?
Ok, I'll humour you than. WHAT utility and WHAT device?
You better answer yes.
I don't even know what you are asking, and more to the point, why you are asking it. What does driver-level programming knowledge have to do with WD and seagate drives having problems? I wanted citations and sources for this drivel you call facts that makes you think that Seagate and WD drives have a number of extra issues that are statistically significant on top of those experienced by hard drives as a whole.
Something like that has already been done and you know it.
if you say so...
It appears that the said companies made little effort to see if their stuff was compatible with what the industry was already doing.
Again, what the *censored* does this have to do with seagate and WD drives? What incompatibilities? See you keep stating these things and it's the SOURCE of these alleged facts I want to know, I don't want to hear more so-called facts and reiterations of what I have specifically asked for sources for.
What more links? Here are a few. Pick them apart.
I just want, reputable sources for this drivel you keep spewing. Forum posts do NOT constitute a reputable source in any case.
http://forums.seagate.com/t5/Other-External-products/Seagate-Expansion-2TB-Avoid-Unless-this-Problems-is-Fixed/td-p/41304
OK seriously, I'm not seeing the relevance. The OP's hard drive is an INTERNAL WD hard drive, presumably SATA; that thread talks about problems with a 2TB External, USB Seagate drive. You may see that there is a rather inordinate lack of any sort of correspondence between the two; different brands, different sizes, different interfaces, and different use-cases. For one thing, that thread discusses a problem that occurs when the PC using the drive is brought out of sleep mode. Considering that involves a problem dealing with the signals sent by USB it's almost certainly a problem with the USB to SATA bridge that is inside the external drive. Perhaps it's not sending those power events to the drive as IDE commands, or perhaps it deals with them incorrectly. Is it a problem? well, of course. Is it at all related to the drive itself? No. Is it related to internal drives like the OPs? No, not at all.
Not answered, 5 months ago.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110102043905AAl48e6
It has two answers. the First sentence sums it up nicely. "Any Drive can fail at any time for any reason". It has nothing to do- at least in this case- with brand names, particularly since almost all hard drives are made in the same factories anyway. Just because you can find a few forum thread and questions talking about how some poor saps WD external drive failed doesn't mean that the failure rate, or problem rate, of WD and seagate hard drives is higher than other brands. After all, I'm sure I could find just as many forum threads and questions that say the same thing about every other brand of any other device.
No answer
http://www.techsupportforum.com/forums/f16/problem-w-external-2tb-fantom-green-drive-542530.html
Again... not sure what this proves. It just proves that one person has had issues with their hard drive of that brand. Additionally, we cannot "know" that this isn't file system level, the work of malware, or god knows what else. Assuming that "oh, you have a WD hard drive, well that is the problem" based on this nonsense as evidence is simply ridiculous.
A signature collusion?
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/14582-63-cannt-connect-external-hard-drives-once
Windows issue when mounting drives. Usually only occurs after cloning drives but can happen in other instances (like say when somebody buys two identical drives).
Apple user has 'stupid software' from WD?
http://www.hackint0sh.org/f291/109483.htm
No, Apple user is using 'stupid software' from Apple that doesn't let them choose a volume. How is this even relevant to your claims that WD and Seagate drives have "more problems" than other drives, particularly since you seem to be focusing on external drives, are usually minor setbacks, and half the time the problem is clearly with something other than the drive. Like say, crappy Apple software that doesn't let you choose a volume and instead makes assumptions about what it should look at. yeah, because that is TOTALLY WD's fault. How dare they have the sheer gall to release a composite USB device that exposes two device nodes to the poor Apple product! Why it didn't know what to do, so it did what it did best- it just did something random.
Another Apple User
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1160717
OK first off, that's not a WD or a seagate drive, it's a LaCIE, second, they dropped it and it simultaneously got disconnected during use. You seriously want to say this is somehow the hard drive manufacturer's screw-up?
Posted this year.
http://forums.techguy.org/hardware/992257-wd-2tb-external-hard-drive.html
And the stream of irrelevance continues!
You know what that person wants? They want a way to format their 2TB drive to use FAT32. I fail to see how any of what is presented in that thread somehow constitutes a failure on the part of WD. Are they supposed to magically make windows allow FAT32 to be used on the 2TB drive? Not to mention they did indeed find a piece of software to do that.
But seriously, What does that have to do with ANYTHING that you've stated. How does that back up your facts of irrelevance, telling people they should "try another brand" of hard drive because you somehow think that changing the hard drive will fix the problem where the machine refuses to boot from the HD, or the CD, is something you ought to back up with real information, not some unrelated forum thread about filesystem conversion.
Many of these,if not all, are because the user does not check the documentation and stick to what the manufacture says. Still, why is it so hard for the manufacture to tell people do not use any other utilities.
I repeat again
WHAT UTILITIES? What manufacturer provided utility should that user have used to magically make their 2TB drive format to FAT32? What manufacturer utility makes the Apple software actually LOOK AT THE FREAKING DEVICE to see how many devnodes it has rather then just going with the first one and pretending it's right? More to the point, how are these problems, which are both inherent in other software - Windows refuses to format a drive/partition larger than a given size as FAT32 and the Apple software refuses to acknowledge the existence of devices with multiple device nodes, something that has been supported since USB 1.1 - somehow the hard drive manufacturer's responsibility to absolve? Tire manufacturers aren't going to make sure you know that the tire has to be filled with air and not kerosene.
Only one low end external by Seagate.
Now mention was made about drives that did not get over three stars. Or the ones that would not work at all.
http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/collection/1650/top_10_external_hard_drives.html
What are you even talking about.
http://www.zdnet.com/reviews/filter/external-hard-drives?categoryId=3190&filter=100021_10197437&tag=mantle_skin;content
Ok, so you've proven that... well, you can buy external hard drives. Good work. I wasn't arguing against that but it's good of you to build that straw man, although I think that was entirely unintentional.
These are more or less user forums.
As opposed, to you know, something statistically significant, which you imply this whole WD/Seagate "problem" to be. If it was the case, why can you find no statistically significant information on it?
Should I dip into the industry forms and newsletters?
Not if you are going to make the same arguments to irrelevance and redundant points you tried to make with the user forum links, no.
Yet users are still complaining about external 2 TB drives.
The OP's drive is internal, and it's 1TB. and almost all of those "complaints" were software issues unrelated to the drive itself.
Must be a lot of NVidia chip sets out there.
The NForce issue obviously only applies to internal drives. See, I made this silly mistake of assuming that what you were advising the OP to do was somehow based on your analysis of his situation- whereby he uses internal, SATA, 1TB WD drives. However I now see it was just pulled out of thin air and had absolutely nothing to do with the OP's actual situation and everything to do with your inability to allow somebody to mention using a WD or Seagate drive without advising that they try a different brand as if their problem was caused by it. even those clearly unrelated to the drive at all, as in this case, where neither the HD nor the CD worked- and he returned and advised that the cause was in fact motherboard failure. So unless you want to weave some hair-breadth conspiracy theory where WD drives are now causing motherboard failures, it was clearly completely redundant.
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At this point, BC, the original issue of the OP was..err..I forgot now. What was the original issue?
I have already apologized for making a statement the was vague and not specific.
The problem the OP had will continue to be a problem till the issue is clearly understood. Did he find a solution?
1 Terrabyte Western Digital
OK. It was a WD 1TB internal and is the boot drive. Using Windows 7 64 bit.
Unless the moderator stops this, I will start this with one authoritative statement which is really PR damage control. Bear with me. It is from Seagate. Western Digital later.
Seagate has isolated a potential firmware issue in limited number of Barracuda 7200.11 hard drives and related SATA drives based on this product platform, manufactured through December 2008. In some unique circumstances, the data on the hard drives may become inaccessible to the user when the host system is powered on.
While we believe that the vast majority of customers will not experience any disruption related to this issue, as part of our commitment to customer satisfaction, Seagate is offering a free firmware upgrade to proactively address those with potentially affected products. This new firmware upgrade corrects compatibility issues that occurred with the firmware download provided on our support website on Jan. 16. We regret any inconvenience that the firmware issues have caused our customers.
To determine whether your product is affected, please visit the Seagate Support web site at http://seagate.custkb.com/seagate/crm/selfservice/news.jsp?DocId=207931
In the unlikely event your drive is affected and you cannot access your data, the data still resides on the drive and there is no data loss associated with this issue. Seagate is working with customers to expedite a remedy.
This was not an isolated case, as the PR damage control above would have you believe.
These are now past issues and do not represent the current sate of any of the hard drive OEMs. The problem was not foreseen by either Seagate or Western Digital. The firmware issue was not a mere error is the code, it was a fundamental design flaw. The products were not suitable for the mass market. In fact the firmware problem of Seagate and the firmware of WD were very different at the code level. It was how the users would use the drives, whether as external, internal USB or SATA. Blaming it on a chip maker was a straw man .
Computer world is regarded as a pro-industry rag, which I read. Still about the Seagate thing, it went much further.
News
Complaints flood Seagate over hard drive problems
Seagate offers free firmware upgrade
By Lucas Mearian
Computerworld - Seagate Technology LLC's online support forum has been riddled this week with complaints from owners of the high-capacity Barracuda 7200.11 hard drive, which in recent months had already drawn some complaints that the drive has been freezing up during data transfers or failing all together.
The Barracuda 7200.11 is the eleventh generation of Seagate's flagship drive for desktop PCs and comes in capacities ranging from 160GB to 1.5TB. Complaints have not been limited to Seagate's online support site. They have also weighed in on other forums. The complaints involve drives running Linux, Mac OS X and Windows Vista.
The company said in a statement Friday that indeed a problem has caused some drives to fail and, it said it isolated the issue to a firmware bug affecting not only the 7200.11 but several other models manufactured through December 2008. Those include the DiamondMax 22, the Barracuda ES.2 SATA and the SV35.
Seagate is offering a firmware upgrade that it says will fix the issue.
...
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9126280/Complaints_flood_Seagate_over_hard_drive_problems
Western Digital also released a firmware fix for drives in its 'Green' line. When you understand that it was not a failing chip and not a bug in the software, you grasp the big picture. They do not really test they products on Personal computers.
Yes, the problem was with the 'Green' drives. And not the same problem as Seagate. Let me repeat, it was no a mechanical thing, not in the start. In both the case of Seagate and Western Digital they underestimated what trousers do with the drives. Whether internal or external.
The Pcgameshardware web site is pro-hardware and would bad mouth a company only if it did something bad.
Hard drives: Western Digital also got problems
There is a new firmware for Western Digital's Green Power hard drives that is supposed to solve problems related to the combination of energy saving mode and certain programs.
A new firmware is available for three Western Digital hard drives.
A new firmware is available for three Western Digital hard drives. [Source: view picture gallery]
Western Digital's hard drives of the Green Power series have a feature similar to hard drives of notebooks. The Read/Write heads are run on energy saving mode if there hasn't been an activity for about eight seconds.
But certain applications like Speedfan or several Linux distributions access the hard drive in regular patterns - sometimes in a 10 seconds rhythm - and thus unnecessarily use the hard drive. A possible option to work around the problem would be not to use such software, but this definitely ins't practical.
Therefore Western Digital developed a new firmware for the models WD1000FYPS-01ZKB0, WD7500AYPS-01ZKB0 and WD7501AYPS-01ZKB0 that extends the timeframe from eight seconds up to five minutes. Alternatively the saving feature can be deactivated. Western Digital provides the required tool. As Silentpcreview reports the affected hard drives can be recognized by a high "load/unload cycle” via SMART. Some Green Power hard drives are supposed to have exceeded their specified 300,000 cycles in less than a year.
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http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,674613/Hard-drives-Western-Digital-also-got-problems/News/
Similar articles can be found in other forums. Here is one that is short and sarcastic.
Western Digital frmware fix
WD and Seagate take steps to fix terabyte drives
Submitted by Devon Cooke on Thu, 2009-01-22 15:13.
Reaching the terabyte mark was an important symbolic step for hard drive makers — a way of saying, "Our drives are so big, we need a new word to describe how big they are!" But that was two years ago, and, as the drives have aged, some problems have come to light. Both Seagate and Western Digital are in the midst of dealing with unexpected problems in their terabyte drives. And both have now commented publicly on the problems. And, happily, both have offered fixes for their respective problems.
http://www.silentpcreview.com/Terabyte_Drive_Fix
Wait, did I forget the Tom's Hardware post? Oh, it really was a firmware failure. But it did not help their PR any.
In the wake of freezing issues with Seagate's 1.5TB drives comes yet another problem with the Barracuda 7200.11 series. Failure rates of the 1TB drives in particular are abnormally high, but Seagate has not acknowledged the problem.
Now 11 pages long, the "official" problem discussion thread on the Seagate support forums is full of users reporting problems with the ST31000340AS, the 1TB Barracuda 7200.11 drive.
One user built a 6TB RAID array three months ago. In two months, one of the drives failed. A second drive failed about a month later, and a third eight days after that. Another user had four out of five of their drives fail within 12 days of purchase. Reports of failures can also be found on other forums as well. Some data recovery and RMA centers have reported failure rates of approximately 30 to 40 percent, but Seagate has not released any official information.
The issue lies with faulty microcode in firmware version SD15, found on drives manufactured in Thailand. Generally, the drive will operate normally until the time of failure and at some point will lock up and prevent detection by the BIOS, rendering it completely unusable.
While Seagate has not publicly acknowledged the problem as of yet, they have reportedly updated the firmware on all newly manufactured drives, however the firmware cannot be update on drives that have already failed because the BIOS does not even detect them. This means that owners of affected drives require data recovery services to save their critical data.
No recall on unsold drives with the affected firmware has been issued.
Update: Seagate has acknowledged the problem and is providing firmware updates through customer support. Additionally, if your hard drive has already failed, Seagate will provide free data recovery services, since the data is not actually affected.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/seagate-7200.11-failing,6844.html
Here is another user gripe about WD and the firmware update.
Occasional Contributor
twostime
Posts: 6
Registered: 12-08-2009
0
Caviar Green 1.5TB drives - problem with new firmware
12-08-2009 03:39 PM - last edited on 12-08-2009 03:43 PM
Synology support the WD15EADS FW rev 00R6B0. They do not support the same drive with rev 00P8B0. Sadly the only FW version available in the UK at present. What is the likelihood of a FW update to fix the issue? Just bought two that I thought were supported drives (I checked) but since they arrived they have been spurned by Synology and exhibit the very problems they describe. . .
That, of course, does not count. Even if 1,000 users complain, but the OEM says almost nothing, the OEM is always right! Besides, that user is in the UK. They always complain.
Can I go to now? It is 9:50 PM here I I want to watch 'House' on the telly. It comes on a 10. CUL.
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At this point, BC, the original issue of the OP was..err..I forgot now. What was the original issue?
The original issue was unrelated to the hard drive.
The problem the OP had will continue to be a problem till the issue is clearly understood. Did he find a solution?
The problem was the motherboard.
Unless the moderator stops this, I will start this with one authoritative statement which is really PR damage control. Bear with me. It is from Seagate. Western Digital later.
That addresses a problem in a upgrade version of firmware that was released on the site. That is, drives didn't come with that firmware, you had to manually upgrade to it. Additionally, they don't mention any specifics as to the problem.
This was not an isolated case, as the PR damage control above would have you believe.
What makes you think this? A few forum posts?
These are now past issues and do not represent the current sate of any of the hard drive OEMs.
So why bring it up? What was the point of that exercise?
The problem was not foreseen by either Seagate or Western Digital.
The quote refers to Seagate, you have yet to provide anything about WD.
The firmware issue was not a mere error is the code, it was a fundamental design flaw.
How do you know this? Did you fix it yourself, or are you making assumptions? That link doesn't even provide any specifics as to the possible symptoms.
The products were not suitable for the mass market.
The firmware wasn't- firmware which was only available by downloading from their site. At least, if I'm supposed to read the quote. Even if, for the sake of argument we say it was in the drives that came from the factory, there are a few things:
-It's a seagate drive. Again, not sure how this extends to WD, nor how it reaches 2 and a half years into the future with unrelated models.
-The effect? the drive would brick itself during hardware detection. A problem? Of course it was. However, you seem to take this a step further. Instead of thinking "well, golly, I see you have a 7200.11 barracuda drive, and it doesn't appear at boot up, I suspect it might be this firmware issue I read about" you go
OMG... chkdsk takes 2 seconds longer when the hour hand is between numbers! It's a massive conspiracy! WHAT? your partitions keep messing up? MUST BE FIRMWARE ISSUES! You can't copy data to a write-protected floppy... oh... and you're using a seagate drive, there is your problem! Or in this case, "I see you are having issues seeing any devices at boot... OMG... you have a WD drive, there is your problem" as if that is a legitimate means of diagnosis.
In fact the firmware problem of Seagate and the firmware of WD were very different at the code level.
YOU BLEW MY MIND.
different manufacturers use different firmware? So is this your citation for WD? "they use different code than seagate but they still have the same problem?" Because that's pretty weak.
Blaming it on a chip maker was a straw man .
And being able to update the chipset driver and resolve the problem-
welll that was simply black magic!
Computer world is regarded as a pro-industry rag, which I read. Still about the Seagate thing, it went much further.
And you proceed to quote a PCWorld article, which basically redescribes the same thing. They claim it was part of the firmware on the drives as they came, but I think that may be journalistic imbellishment, as you are wont to find in a PC Magazine. Either way, they are rather specific that the drives were all "models manufactured through December 2008", Looking at the calendar, I see the date is May 2011. I suppose I can quote things about the FDIV bug and say Intel is unreliable too?
Western Digital also released a firmware fix for drives in its 'Green' line.
Yes, the GREEN line. a fact you never ask Original Posters about. you see WD and your eyes set fire and you go "OMG I KNOW THE PROBLEM! IT IS THE DRIVE!" regardless of whether the user is actually having issues with their hard drive or is just trying to download some attachments. It's never a WD Green drive, Just as when they say it's seagate you don't care if they have a Baracuda 7200.11 that was manufacturered before December 2008.
When you understand that it was not a failing chip and not a bug in the software, you grasp the big picture.
The big picture is: Companies and people are fallible. Well hot *censored* that is a huge revelation there, professor! Any other nuggets of wisdom you care to share with us? Perhaps that dogs and cats have four legs, flies have compound eyes, or computer memory comes in a stick format? Secondly, it WAS a bug in the software, because firmware is software, but I suppose that would be splitting hairs. Either way, these are problems, as you have said yourself that have passed. Do you somehow think that because those two companies have had some firmware issues in the past they are somehow more likely to have more in the future then other HD manufacturers? Do you also firmly believe that because Intel had the FDIV microcode issue in their Original Pentiums that any excel spreadsheets created on Intel processors should be double-checked by a mathematician?
They do not really test they products on Personal computers.
If the issues are sporadic and rare, there is a possibility that the problem can slip through the cracks. You can't read that there was a firmware issue on a few drives three years ago and suddenly conclude that any and all products made by that manufacturer aren't tested on the very PCs that they are designed for. That's a ludicrous and overbearing assumption.
Yes, the problem was with the 'Green' drives.
I pointed this out. Again, and I repeat, this is how people threads often go if they make the "mistake" of mentioning their drive is Seagate or WD.
OP: Hi, I'm having a problem, I can't seem to see any of my drives when I boot up"
Mr.Conspiracy: Are you using a WD hard-drive"
OP: yes
Mr. Conspiracy: Even though the problem to which I refer was something prevalent three years ago and with a sub-type of the brand you use that I can't be bothered to confirm you have, and even though the symptoms where you don't see the Optical drive either are wholly unrelated to the issue to which I refer, I think you should use another brand and see if that fixes the issue.
In both the case of Seagate and Western Digital they underestimated what trousers do with the drives. Whether internal or external.
So wait... they didn't expect users to boot up? It is a rare issue that occurs when the drive is first powered on. I see that as an oversight, but hardly underestimating what people do with drives, particularly since power up the drives is almost certainly something they would expect users to do at some point.
The Pcgameshardware web site is pro-hardware and would bad mouth a company only if it did something bad.
And you know this... How? Seriously, Magazines are full of nonsense. Anything that sells another copy can be put in there. They aren't sources of information, either.
Similar articles can be found in other forums.
And I'm sure there can be posts found about people who think that their Intel chips are posessed by a dark wizard named agememnon who eats goats and makes macaroni pictures, that hardly means it has a factual basis, it just means those people are delusional.
Let me sum this up. I really don't give a flying crap what you believe. Really I don't. I already know you believe all sorts of conspirational nonsense that would make a 9/11 "truther" blush. My "problem" is that you are using these 3 year old citations as somehow proof that Seagate and WD drives have a rate of failure that is statistically higher than other brands. That's what I was asking for, so I assume that is what you are providing. Knowing you though I wouldn't have been surprised if your evidence consisted of a souffle recipe and a laundry list. In any case, All this confirms is that you base that entirely on two instances where there were firmware issues with said drive. This is the equivalent of the following:
OP: Hi, for some reason all my excel formulas are wrong, any help?
Poster: can you post the formulas you are using?
Conspirational crazy person: Are you using an Intel chip? Did you know that over 20 years ago there was a problem with one of their chips microcode that caused it to do math wrong? It was called the FDIV bug! Somehow this bug from 20 years ago translates into the cause of the problem on your i5 system! Apparently whenever a company has an issue with a single line of their products we must generalize that problem and make assumptions whenever that brand is mentioned!
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I give up. I plead guilty as charged.
To finish this thread with some redeeming value, here is a 2007 report, which many have already read.
http://labs.google.com/papers/disk_failures.pdf