Computer Hope
Hardware => Hardware => Topic started by: jackal88k on December 26, 2010, 01:03:00 PM
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what is the best thermal compound out there to put on any CPU computers? ???
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Are you nu aware of then rules?
Religion is not allowed here. Just use what God told you.
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what is the best thermal compound out there to put on any CPU computers? ???
Anything with a metallic base; the ceramic compounds in my experience work a lot less efficiently then those with a metallic base. The t hermal compound that comes with a CPU, for example, works fine, but if you want to overclock it or truly want it to run as cool as possible, you'd be best to replace it with something else.
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Arctic Silver.
Hands down....
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Arctic Silver.
Hands down....
Aye, that's what I use.
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*** sigh ***
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sigh what ? ?
Do you have a product or recommendation that would be better ? ?
Or are you just screwin with me again ? ?
Inquiring minds want to know,,,
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That brings me to a point though- a lot of people say stuff like how arctic silver is "too expensive"... but I don't get it. I paid 19 dollars for a 12-gram tube about 3 years ago and it's still 80% full, even after applying it countless times.
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(http://www.dansdata.com/images/goop/unusual220.jpg)
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I don't know if that's a joke or not. Mostly because it shares something in common with all your jokes.
It's not funny.
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What is going on here?
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Congratulations Geek...i'm no longer going to be responding to you.
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I also like arctic silver, if you're still interested jakal88k.
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We had this discussion before.
Okay, I'm going to be quite serious.
We know that some materials are better than others for thermal conductibility. That is a given. We could make a list of different types of common materials and compounds and we would find that AIR is not a very good thermal conductor, unless it is in motion. When AIR is trapped in a pocket, the thermal conductivity is poor.
So what does this have to do with thermal compound? Simply this, both the aluminum heats ink and the metal surface of the CPU minor imperfections that will trap air and reduce the ability of the heat sink heat wave the CPU surface. This gives rise to the expression"thermal resistance", being that something between the heat sink and CPU surface is not allowing the heat to transfer as efficiently as it should. Ideally, the perfect thermal resistance would be resistance of zero. In practice, there are many compounds that have good thermal resistance. When spread out very thin the resistance is not very significant as compared to the dry air it misplaces.
To make a realistic valuation of different compounds the following procedure issues. We get identical motherboards and CPUs and cooling systems and use different compounds on the test boards and make sure the differential temperature. Of course, if we don't choose any heat sink compound there will be a very large differential to procure and there is danger is the CPU actually shutting down from overheating. Real laboratory tests have shown that almost any compound is more effective than just tried air trapped between the CPU and heat sink. For example, you could go to the drugstore and buy a compound that contains zinc oxide and try it as a heat sink compound. Surprise! You try and try and you would find that there is virtually no difference between just plain zinc oxide compound and almost any other kind of compounded to think of. The differential temperature is near the same. Withing 2 degrees Celsius.
You wonder why this is true? It just is. Not by theory, not a conjecture, but by actual in the laboratory testing. And in real science and technology, it's what works and really matters. So why pay more money for something that doesn't work much better? Well, when we go beyond science and technology and into something else, it is something else.
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I love arguments that basically say "science has proven you wrong" with no actual links to these "experiments" or "testing" that claim to do so.
Real laboratory tests have shown that almost any compound is more effective than just tried air trapped between the CPU and heat sink.
Yeah that is sort of a no brainer.
For example, you could go to the drugstore and buy a compound that contains zinc oxide and try it as a heat sink compound. Surprise! You try and try and you would find that there is virtually no difference between just plain zinc oxide compound and almost any other kind of compounded to think of.
Wrong. different compounds have different heat capacitance.
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Something nobody has mentioned so far is that thermal grease needs to retain temperature transference for a long time. If it turns to dust after six months, and loses half of it's heat transference, it is worthless. This is one of those things where you should spend a little more for a proven product.
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I love arguments that basically say "science has proven you wrong" with no actual links to these "experiments" or "testing" that claim to do so.
Yeah that is sort of a no brainer.
Wrong. different compounds have different heat capacitance.
Sorry, I thought we were talking about facts, no personal beliefs.
The facts are clear. It has already been done. There is litter or no difference the the end result. The advantage is not significant or even non measurable. The difference is close to the margin of error of the experiment. Please give a reference that shows actual real measurable results, not a lot of theoretical maybe this or maybe that.
Given, some compounds are better thermal conductors., True. That can be shown
Therefore we should use the better compounds. False,. That is a premise that there would be a significant difference in actual piratical test on real PC. Not so. No significant difference has been found by anybody who knows how to read a thermometer. I do not mean to insult you BC, but I have to conclude that you have never worked in any kind of research and development t with actual materials.
Sorry if I have blasphemed your worship of the thermal goo God. I did not want to get into religionor this forum. I want to talk only about scientific fact.
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Something nobody has mentioned so far is that thermal grease needs to retain temperature transference for a long time. If it turns to dust after six months, and loses half of it's heat transference, it is worthless. This is one of those things where you should spend a little more for a proven product.
Exactly! :)
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heat capacitance
Not a term I've ever heard of before, what units does it come in?
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Heat capacity = Cp ( j/k)
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Heat+capacity
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heat capacitance
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I want to talk only about scientific fact.
Okay. You say that this has been proven in a laboratory. What laboratory? What scientists? What journal were the results published in? And don't give a link to some crackpot on the internet. I could give you links to people claiming all sorts of ridiculous things. It doesn't make them true. An actual scientific journal, with a real paper written by a real scientist, will suffice.
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:)
heat physical quantity
capacitance electrical quantity
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heat physical quantity
capacitance electrical quantity
Degreewatts.... Watt? :D
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Arctic Silver.
Hands down....
what about tuniq tx-4 is that good too?.....can i use arctic silver on every computer if im not overclocking?
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what about tuniq tx-4 is that good too?.....can i use arctic silver on every computer if im not overclocking?
Basically:
Metal-Based is better then Ceramic Based is better then... whatever other stuff there is.
Missed geek's previous reply, but JJ3000 pretty much responded with the same thing I would have said.
Sorry, I thought we were talking about facts, no personal beliefs.
everybody but you is in fact dealing in fact. You truly think we should just believe you because you say "this is fact"? Not going to happen. provide LINKS TO THESE STUDIES. just saying that "research has been done and proven you wrong" isn't an argument in and of itself without actually showing that the research has been done. And again as JJ says don't link us to some crackpot who is actually presenting alternative theories (much like yourself, what with your clearly untested theory that toothpaste is as effective as any other thermal paste. By the same token I could say that I could just use water to lubricate heavy machinery.
The facts are clear. It has already been done. There is litter or no difference the the end result. The advantage is not significant or even non measurable. The difference is close to the margin of error of the experiment.
By who? the magical toothpaste fairy that only you can see?
Please give a reference that shows actual real measurable results, not a lot of theoretical maybe this or maybe that.
What the *censored* do you think YOU ARE BEING ASKED FOR? what are we supposed to just believe your utter bull crap about how toothpaste is just as effective at absorbing and diverting heat energy? have you ever actually heated toothpaste? do you know what happens? it dries out. It becomes an insulator at that point. So much for your theory about toothpaste.
Given, some compounds are better thermal conductors., True. That can be shown
Therefore we should use the better compounds. False,.
Despite your assertions to the contrary, that actually would logically follow. If some compounds conduct heat better then others then those compounds are going to work better in applications that require the conduction of heat. It's basic bloody logic.
That is a premise that there would be a significant difference in actual piratical test on real PC. Not so. No significant difference has been found by anybody who knows how to read a thermometer.
Speedfan disagree with you, as do all the various BIOS temp readings I've done after reapplying paste to GPU's and CPUs that were using the basic grease. Metal-based thermal compounds conduct heat better. therefore they work better. In most cases a difference of ten degrees can be seen.
I want to talk only about scientific fact.
Right. When do you plan to start doing this exactly?
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For example, you could go to the drugstore and buy a compound that contains zinc oxide and try it as a heat sink compound. Surprise! You try and try and you would find that there is virtually no difference between just plain zinc oxide compound and almost any other kind of compounded to think of.
Geek-9pm,
Are you saying that I could use strawberry jam, peanut butter, anti-biotic ointment, or just anything that I can spread thinly and get to stay in place and they would all work as good as actual thermal compounds that are made for this actual purpose?
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Geek-9pm,
Are you saying that I could use strawberry jam, peanut butter, anti-biotic ointment, or just anything that I can spread thinly and get to stay in place and they would all work as good as actual thermal compounds that are made for this actual purpose?
No, that would be in bad taste. ::)
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Well, I did consider coming back with whole bunch of links to this and that over here and over there and all that kind of stuff. And after thinking it over, the olOP deserves a decent answer.
It started when I made a remark and then the dynamic duel came back with their answers that they knew would do irk me. And then I made a***sigh***and patio put me on his black list. Or maybe it was a silver list, I'm not sure.
Anyway, my objection was that people would make a recommendation for a very specific product without giving any reason why other than it is allegedly the best of its kind.
For my rebuttal I would recommend that anybody considering using arctic silver and five should go to the Arctic Silver website and read up on the instructions for installing any of their products. The material on the website is quite conservative and very accurate. Anybody who was not done the Heatsik Hula at least once needs to read the material over. And even people of the industry still should read the article over and learn what the company itself says of the products.
I would have no problem with the OP deciding to use any of the Arctic Silver products. I recommend he reads over information is found on the website, especially with regard to using the Arctic Silver five.
As for the other issues, we can carry this on and on, I have about 3000 different sources and I'm still wading through. But I don't think it would be productive to post even a fraction of them here. Just too much information
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I also like arctic silver, if you're still interested jakal88k.
can i use arctic silver on every computer if I'm not overclocking?
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Months ago I found a comparative test that an Australian guy did. He tests CPU coolers and other hardware and publishes the results on his hardware and gadget review site. He used the same rig that he uses to test coolers - a electrically heated block which delivers a measured amount of power in Watts, containing a temperature probe, and another thermometer to measure the ambient air temperature. The difference between the two temperatures (the "delta-T") divided by the heat in Watts gives the thermal transference of the setup in °C/W
http://www.dansdata.com/goop.htm
He tried Arctic Silver 3 two ways, first in "More Is Better" style, putting on a half-millimetre layer of the stuff. "Lots of people over-apply thermal grease, and I wanted to see what difference it might make." Then he scraped most of it off and redid the test.
Vegemite is a kind of savoury (British & Commonwealth spelling) spread made from yeast. UK people can use Marmite instead.
Results (lower is better)
No compound at all 0.66°C/W.
White zinc oxide thermal compound 0.50°C/W.
Arctic Silver 3 thick layer 0.50°C/W.
Arctic Silver 3 thin layer 0.48°C/W
Arctic Alumina 0.50°C/W.
Cooler Master PTK-001 0.48°C/W
Cooler Master HTK-001 0.50°C/W
Nanotherm Blue after application 0.56°C/W.
Nanotherm Blue left overnight 0.51°C/W.
Toothpaste 0.47°C/W.
Vegemite 0.48°C/W
Plain water 0.41°C/W
So any compound at all is better than none, and the difference between expensive and cheap compounds is insignificant. He only used the joke items, Vegemite, toothpaste and water, to illustrate that almost anything between the cpu and cooler is going to aid heat transfer. Of course these substances are going to dry out pretty quickly and become useless or worse than useless.
He did note that if you are doing lots of cpu & heatsink tests and you are going to take the cooler off again in a few hours, you may as well use toothpaste to save money.
He also notes that if you think that choice of heatsink compound is going to make the difference between overheating and not overheating you must be running a pretty *censored* marginal system.
I was involved in electronic manufacturing for 20 years and his methods and results look good to me. I think that the market in heatsink compound is one of those "toys for guys" things, and also there is a good amount of superstition involved, similar to carrying a rabbits foot or 4-leaf clover to prevent bad luck.
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Right...
My Arctic Silver recommendation is based on toys for boys and superstition.....
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Right...
My Arctic Silver recommendation is based on toys for boys and superstition.....
Not necessarily. However it is no better (or worse) at transferring heat than plain white zinc oxide thermal compound. (the 0.02 °C/W difference in the table can be ignored) The cool pack and logo won't cool a cpu any better. Each pack contains about 30 US cents worth of silver.