Computer Hope
Microsoft => Microsoft Windows => Windows Vista and 7 => Topic started by: sjn2009 on January 20, 2012, 10:31:32 PM
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Hello all. This is a friends computer that he has asked me to take a look at. He purchased it at Walmart 13 months ago, and is no longer covered under warranty as I understand it. The problem started a few days after installing Pro Tools. When you started the computer it went through the emachines logo screen, to the windows is starting screen, and right after the first red dot appeared it would freeze. After waiting hours to see if it would move we decided to reformat the drive. That didn't solve anything and was a bad idea in retrospect. So I put the hard drive into my computer and re installed windows 7 using my disc. However, this has not solved the problem and it still occurs in the emachine. I've also tried refitting all the cables and air-dusted around the heatsink and mobo.
If you try to enter in safe mode, use a windows disc, or run Ubuntu off usb it all freezes eventually. So I'm wondering if it's a power issue or perhaps the CPU.
Computer Specs:
eMachines model #EL1850G-42W
Processor: Intel Celeron E3400 2.60GHz
Memory: 2GB DDR3 SDRAM
Hard Drive: 320GB 7200rpm SATA
OP Drive: DVD SuperMulti drive
Graphics: Integrated Intel GMA X4500HD
Power Supply: 220W
Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.
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Yes. formatting the hard drive was a bad idea. The version of Windows 7 on that machine was for just that machine.
... try to enter in safe mode, use a windows disc, or run Ubuntu off usb it all freezes eventually. So I'm wondering if it's a power issue or perhaps the CPU.
Please elaborate. Ubuntu can run from the CD or can be installed on the hard drive. Which did you do?
No, not likely the CPU or Power supply. It is the hard drive. A bad power supply would not even let you run Ubuntu. And a bad heat sink on the CPU would not let you get twenty minutes of use. A bad hard drive can lock the system at anytime. Most often in a few minutes. But to be sure, run some test on the drive in another machine. As a slave drive.
Western Digital and Se agate both have drive diagnostics on their respective sites.
http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/support/downloads/seatools/
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Well like I said, when I plug his hard drive, a hitachi, and replace it with mine it works just fine. I've also tried putting my WD HDD into his computer, but I ended up having the same freeze at windows starting screen. Except when my hard drive was in it, it went into a reboot loop.
Please elaborate. Ubuntu can run from the CD or can be installed on the hard drive. Which did you do?
To clarify, I have the latest ubuntu saved on a flash drive. I used the option to run ubuntu from the usb, not install. I was under the impression though that this only uses the RAM for short term storage. What froze in this method was after chosing "Run ubuntu" it goes to a screen with lines of code that freezes after scrolling a few lines down.
Took your advise and ran a diagnostic tool. I used Drive Fitness Test that I found on Hiatchi's website, and it came back with no errors (Disposition Code 0x00). In case it helps here's more information about the hard drive:
Device: ATA
Model: HD5721032CLA362
Serial: HE1DSTAT
Cache: 14112 KB
Capacity: 320.07 GB
Thanks
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A badly corrupted hard drive will freeze the system. Even with software that does not even depend of the hard drive.
Ubuntu will try to identify the drive. When the drive does not respond normally, it can make the system electrically unstable* .The drive must be replaced. Otherwise, rebuilt by a company that does that sort of thing. The cost is prohibitive for the average user. So you just buy a new drive.
*Electrically unstable. The electronics on the drive board makes the drive do something very abnormal. It ins a malfunction. Normal software does not anticipate this.Nor should it have to.
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we decided to reformat the drive. That didn't solve anything and was a bad idea in retrospect.
Why? What happened?
So I put the hard drive into my computer and re installed windows 7 using my disc
Why did you have to swap the hard drive into your computer to install? Does his not have a CD drive?
Did you get any errors during the install?
If you've wiped the recovery partition you can order a recovery disk from Emachines. http://us-store.emachines.com/rcd/
Try this:
Boot to the Ubuntu live USB and hold down the shift key as it's starting. This will bring up more boot options. Choose test memory. This will take a very long time to run. Report back if it finds any errors.
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So I'm wondering if it's a power issue or perhaps the CPU.
Computer Specs:
Power Supply: 220W
220W is definitely at the lower end of the power supply spectrum. Could possibly be an issue.
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Why did you have to swap the hard drive into your computer to install? Does his not have a CD drive?
Did you get any errors during the install?
I swapped his hard drive into mine because if you put the Windows 7 Installation disc into his pc it freezes at the exact same spot as I've described before.
This even happened if you try any other type of booting for windows. It will always freeze, on his machine.
I did not get any errors during the installation, nor after while opening random processes trying to see if it would freeze/crash.
Try this:
Boot to the Ubuntu live USB and hold down the shift key as it's starting. This will bring up more boot options. Choose test memory. This will take a very long time to run. Report back if it finds any errors.
I believe i ran this test after Ubuntu failed, and I don't remember if any errors came up. So I am running it again now and I will come back with any problems.
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Just thought I'd post an update on the memory test. After running for 4 hours, it ran 7 tests and found no errors. I still have it running though and will continue to until I notice something.
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4 Hours is plenty...if zero hours then the RAM is fine...
You can turn it off now.
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Okay thank you. So I guess the problem is indeed the hard drive then, I'll have to consult with him and see if he's ready to buy a new one. I was hoping I could give him one of my old ones that still work fine, but they're all IDE.
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For your earlier post you indicate that the drive works in an other PC, but fails test. Therefore the replacement of the drive is need, even though the PSU is wimpy. A bigger power supply is not a cure for a defective drive. The drive should only take about 35 watts. Or less. Some hard drives will suck current went the go bad. Depends on the type of failure.
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The hard drive didn't fail any tests though. It just won't work in his computer, but works fine in mine. I hope that's what you were referring to, otherwise please explain.
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I think I misread your descriptions.
Took your advise and ran a diagnostic tool. I used Drive Fitness Test that I found on Hiatchi's website, and it came back with no errors (Disposition Code 0x00).
So this error was not in the alternative nPC? If the drive is clean in the alternative PC then I was giving you wrong advice.
If ,it is not a case of drive failure then a fair guess either Power Supply or Motherboard. You hope it is not the motherboard.
You van try another PSU. May cost you about $35 far a standard 450 watt unit. Hard to believe it was only 220 watts. Make sure it has the cables for your motherboard. But that should not be a problem.
Amway., a spare PSU is always handy thing to have.
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Ah that makes a little more sense. Well is there a way I can check the motherboard in the same way I've checked the HDD and RAM? I also dread if this will turn out to be a PSU issue, because the case size is as newegg puts it, "Small Form Factor".
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"Small Form Factor".
What? Why didn't you say that before? ::)
Now I would recommend a daily dose of Prosac.
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What? Why didn't you say that before? ::)
Now I would recommend a daily dose of Prosac.
What the heck is this supposed to mean ? ?
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What the heck is this supposed to mean ? ?
I was thinking getting a replacement power unit for a SFF can lead to severe mental depression. Depending on the brand. He might find none of as low as $20 at new egg. If so, my panic reaction was impulsive and out of order. Hope a new PSU is the cure for his problem.
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Fair enough...
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Don't waste your money.
Just find or borrow a PSU with same or higher W that will power up the computer and see if it will let you install the OS.
The last thing you want to find out the Motherboard was bad and having wasted your money and a wimpy PSU.
The problem is letting your friend buy a eMachine.
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Actually not a bad idea for testing purposes as the PSU can stay outside the PC just to see if thats going to solve his issue...
NOTE: The last thing you want to hear when your rig is down is sarcasm...even if it's eMachines so we try not to use that here.
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Thanks for the tips, I'll see if my spare power supply works and get it testing.
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I doubt it is the motherboard. If you get into BIOS, the motherboard is mostly good. Does it boot a floppy?
I will try to say something positive here. You can get very good service from a SFF machine if you understand that expansion is very limited. Don't let it overheat and it can outlast the warranty period. Kept it vertical and well ventilated.
When these units overheat, the PSU and hard drive takes the beating. But a bad motherboard can happen.
New egg and others with sell you a refurbished e Machines SFF for an attractive price, warranty tetra. If he likes the machine, he might consider buying another one and keeping the old old for spare parts, it ever needed. :)
Under $240 warranty extra.
Dual core Emachines Intel (or AMD)
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit
500 GB HDD
Keyboard & Mouse NVIDIA graphics
(http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/83-114-102-02.jpg)
Picture is from Newegg.
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Well I tried using my computers 500w psu, but alas the freezing still continues. Guess that means its the motherboard, so should I tell him to just find a new rig?
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Well I tried using my computers 500w psu, but alas the freezing still continues. Guess that means its the motherboard, so should I tell him to just find a new rig?
No. It is not final yet. You mentioned at the onset the problem started after you installed a certain program. Please elaborate. Exactly what was the program and why was it installed? Is it a recommended program for Windows 7? It may be a coincidence, but before you throw in the towel check it out. There is a program with a name like that with a unstable history.
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It's called pro tools. I'm not sure how that can be causing the problem if I put a fresh install on the hard drive. I even tried using my hdd and psu in his motherboard and had the freezing problem. If its not the psu, hdd, cables, or memory what else could it be?
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the audio mixing app by Avid ? ?
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Yes by avid, its Pro Tools LE 8 to be specific
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Have you tried clearing CMOS?
http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000976.htm
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Yes by avid, its Pro Tools LE 8 to be specific
Must be a fluke. I think something has either reset your CMOS settings or else alter the MBR of the drive. Reset the BIOS defaults on the sick computer. Check the time and date also.
Did not mean to bad mouth Pro Tools LE 8. There is another program I was thinking about.
Best guess is the CMOS settings got lost. Coincidence. Should not happening to a machine less that two years old. But maybe the battery is dead.
EDIT: JJ 3000 Didn't see you post. Pardon me.
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It's called pro tools. I'm not sure how that can be causing the problem if I put a fresh install on the hard drive. I even tried using my hdd and psu in his motherboard and had the freezing problem. If its not the psu, hdd, cables, or memory what else could it be?
Well thats your issue right there...
He's running a Celeron...it calls for 4 6 or 8core CPU's
It will run on 2G but they recommend 4G
It's clear from what i read you are asking the PC to do something it's not even close to being capable of...
Hope you got a good deal on it because you will need some hardware upgrading.
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Have you tried clearing CMOS?
http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000976.htm
Yes I tried this already to no avail.
Well thats your issue right there...
He's running a Celeron...it calls for 4 6 or 8core CPU's
It will run on 2G but they recommend 4G
It's clear from what i read you are asking the PC to do something it's not even close to being capable of...
Hope you got a good deal on it because you will need some hardware upgrading.
So did him trying to install it somehow mess up the computer?
Also I doubt he will want to upgrade his existing PC. The case size is terrible and I personally wouldn't want to construct that for him. I'd much rather just start fresh, a lowball estimate of the computer you describe is $200-300. That's what he spent on this computer, so I'm sure he won't be happy, but that's what happens when you buy instantly outdated computers at walmart.
Edit:
I'm reading that the memory requirements are min 1 GB, and doesn't mention anything about the processor requirements.
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His system is inside specs.
If you want to run Windows 7 on your PC, here's what it takes:
1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor
1 gigabyte (GB) RAM (32-bit) or 2 GB RAM (64-bit)
16 GB available hard disk space (32-bit) or 20 GB (64-bit)
DirectX 9 graphics device with WDDM 1.0 or higher driver
From MS site.
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Geek you should visit the site and check the apps requirements to advise on a replacement unit...
This is From the Site... (http://avid.custkb.com/avid/app/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=377823)
The MBiard and CPU are probably 399 by themselves...
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I put the hard drive into my computer and re installed windows 7 using my disc. However, this has not solved the problem and it still occurs in the emachine.
That's usually not a good way to install an OS unless your computer is exactly the same model as his. Have you looked in Device Manager on his computer to verify all devices appear OK there?
When you reformatted the hard drive, which probably had a recovery partition on it which was probably drive D, are you sure you erased the entire hard drive or just drive/partition C?
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That's usually not a good way to install an OS unless your computer is exactly the same model as his. Have you looked in Device Manager on his computer to verify all devices appear OK there?
When you reformatted the hard drive, which probably had a recovery partition on it which was probably drive D, are you sure you erased the entire hard drive or just drive/partition C?
You can't get to device manager, because you can't get past starting screen.
And when I reformatted the drive I did remove all partitions.
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Patio, please remove my foot from my mouth. :-[
That program can run only on a few machines.
The owner should not have tried that program.
The OP erased the whole HDD. Iincluding recovery partition.
He may get Windows 7 back only with help from the maker of the computer.
Buying a new retail version of Windows 7 is not a good option.
I am out of suggestions and will now keep my mouth shut.
But the computer is not broken. Just messed up. Sorry I can't help.
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Well thanks for everyone's time, but this is beyond my abilities so I'm giving it back to him. He says he called pro tools support and that his computer was fine. So I'm not sure what will happen to it, and ill continue to check here in case something works.