Computer Hope
Software => Computer software => Topic started by: Borderlord on June 07, 2017, 01:51:59 PM
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Hi all
First of all I have to say I'm working with a computer that's new to me, and also Win10, equally unfamiliar.
Whether that has any bearing on the issue, I'm not sure.
So, downloaded some software to program a gyro in a model helicopter. The download went fine, and as far as I can tell drivers are in too and running, but the pc won't talk to the gyro.
According to device manager the gyro is plugged into Com4. I have seven USB ports on my new machine but they seem to be numbered from 4 upwards.
The software has a provision for plugging into Com's 1 to 3, but not 4. Did try changing the com port number in device manager, but no success.
Does this ring a bell with anyone?
Thanks
Jeff
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Anything that uses a USB port can use any port.
Jeff, I think you are telling me the software requires COM port 4.
Any new consumer computer will not have a COM port 4 on it.
The kind of snuff is very retro. It was already dead 10 years ago.
Please provide some detail so somebody here and find specs on device and the software your are trying to use.
I am going to guess. You got a USB adapter to emulate a come pot. Often they never work at all and never work right. But is is a post from anohter forum about how hard this can be.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/53395-45-port
Notice ho the thread goes on and on and the answer is not complete.
: >I did a search in the Registry and found COM4 is associated to the
: >Bluetooth dongle I added - for some unknown reasons it added an
: >"invisible" COM4 along side COM5 (that I can see listed in Device
: >Manager).
Sorry, I can not help you. I have been through that stuff myself and never found a working solution. :-[
Maybe somebody here might help. :-\
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Hi Geek, thanks for the quick reply.
Perhaps I did not explain it too well. When I plug the dongle into the first USB port on my computer it comes up in device manager as Com4. Plug it into the next one and it's Com5 and so on.
The software itself has a drop down menu which lists Com 1 to 3 as options, but nothing above that.
Have to say this same unit has worked perfectly in my old computer on Win7 for a number of years. I had a Hard Drive failure which lost this program along with a number of others.
Took the opportunity to replace the computer with something more up to date and running Win10 but the program should still be usable.
Anyone interested, this is the link to the software I am trying to use.
Anything obvious sticks out?
http://fbl.net.nz/
Alpha version 1.23 towards the bottom of the page.
Thanks
Jeff
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The software has a provision for plugging into Com's 1 to 3, but not 4.
Is this an older serial controlled gyro?
Software supporting COM 1 thru 3 to me sounds like this might be an older device since if it was meant for USB, it would have USB discovery in the software.
Are you using a USB to to older serial adapter also? (* Knowing the gyro your connecting to this might answer this as for if its older and requires older serial connection, you mentioning that you connecting through USB would indicate that a USB to older Serial adapter is in use. )
*** Further note: I havent seen anything specifically require COM 1 thru 3 in years ... this sounds like a device from the late 1990s or older perhaps. :-\ Devices and drivers requiring specific COM ports of 1, 2, 3, or 4 with 1 & 3 on same interrupt and 2 & 4 on same interrupt phased out many years ago. Computers stopped being built with older COM 1 or COM 2 serial ports around 12 years ago and today only specific models or addon card required to have older serial connection such as internal card or USB to older Serial Adapter, and I have seen these converter adapters for USB to older Serial use COM numbers such as COM 7 etc. The biggest issue with flipping this adapter from COM say 7 to COM 1 is that I have seen issues where COM 1 while labelled as COM 1, the driver or software needs a legacy physical serial port. So you might find yourself tracking down an older computer that has a legacy 9 ping dsub serial port for true physical COM 1 vs virtual COM 1 and fix this issue this way.
My troubles that I had with these USB to older legacy Serial adapters gave me headaches when I use to work in IT as Systems Admin for a small food store chain. They got new point of sale computers and guess what.... NO LEGACY SERIAL PORTS ... ALL USB... The Scanner/Scales we had were from the mid 1990s and required a legacy serial connection at 9600 baud. I fought with trying to get it to work with the USB to Legacy Serial Adapters and it was hours of headache. The final solution was the point of sale computers had a PCI Slot that wasnt populated. I rush ordered 67 PCI Serial Cards which had COM 1 and COM 2 as 9-pin D-SUB to match up to the older fujitsu scanner/scales. Once these adapters were installed the drivers installed for the serial cards, and then they defaulted to COM 1 & COM 2 so no further configuration required, the fujitsu scanner scales now worked with the new point of sale systems. So that saved the day since we were told the new systems would work with our older scanner/scales and well they were wrong on a $115,000 project. $1340 in serial cards at $20 each and problem solved.
So if this is the case where you have an older gyro, you might find it easier to go with a true legacy serial port connection vs USB to Legacy Serial translation. :-\
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just posted and saw that you added info ... checked out your link and saw some info at this page for configuration.
http://fbl.net.nz/info/adapter
Be sure its configured to their suggested settings per OS
Pretty pathetic that they require you to shuffle Serial Ports around vs make a driver that will discover the device. ::) Looks like this device may have been created around 2007 which is when legacy serial was starting to phase out in place of USB standard. Internal electronics are older legacy serial it appears. :-\
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DaveLembke,
You are right on.
If you don't want to re-write the legacy POS software, you have to get the legacy hardware.
Serial to USB adapters are categorically failures.
They emulate, but do not replace.
The OP might consider getting an older used PC that has real serial ports.
Or one of these:
(https://webobjects2.cdw.com/is/image/CDW/4176589?$product-main$)
(Image of dual serial port PCI card. Under $25.)
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Hi Dave and Geek
Many thanks for your replies, especially Dave for his very detailed post.
Can't understand all of it, but here's what I have.
Seems to me the issue is Win10, would this be right? I have been using Win7 for years and it does all that I want it to, but the guy who sold me the computer said I could try 10 for a month, and if I didn't like it he would re-install 7.
Seems ironic that Win10 is seen as an improvement, but it grounds half my heli fleet.
Anyway, couple of avenues to follow.
Switching back to Win7 is one of them.
Seems this issue has been found before, and someone has posted a workaround for it. Trouble is, can't get that to work either.
That one's still on the back burner.
The other one is this.
There are two versions of the software available. The one I am trying to use is a third party publication, but there is also software issued by the manufacturer of the unit.
This one I have tried, but that won't work because of a lack of a AppFaceDLL file.
This I posted about before under the heading 'Running software downloaded from the internet'.
Wonder if either of you could look at that post and suggest a way round this. Maybe the OEM software will work where the third party one won't.
Either would be suitable for my purposes.
Many Thanks
Jeff
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Seems to me the issue is Win10, would this be right?
The issue is the control software in question is poorly written. It sounds like it was designed a long time ago for interfacing with normal Serial (RS232) Ports, and they didn't really add support for USB, they just sort of hacked it in and utilized undocumented aspects of how devices are managed.
It just happens that their cowboy programming worked on Windows 7, but it no longer works on Windows 10. Of course going back to Win7 is an option. the software alternative might work too.
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I concur with BC Programmer. Older software used hardware caked 'RS-232'
Below is photo of an older PC made a few years ago. Notice there is one RS 232 port. There are five USB ports.
The term 'COM port' means a RS232 thing.
Here is what has me confused. Are you using a real RS232 port? Does the gyro have a USB port? Each kind of port on the back of the PC in the photo is different in every say. The pins are different. The protocol is different. The software is different.
Does the helicopter plug into any of these ports tiredly without any spacial adapters?
Somehow I got the idea you are using a rs232 to USB spatter. They don't work. Unless you bought some special s software.
Please clarify. If you device really is a USB device, it does not matter which port you use of the USB ports on your PC.
[attachment deleted by admin to conserve space]
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Hi Geek
Thanks for the picture, that is almost identical to my old computer. However, it also has 3 USB ports on the front which is what I use.
This is the USB adaptor, variously described as a Program Adaptor, or dongle.
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/hobbyking-zyx-3-axis-flybarless-system-usb-program-adapter.html
I suppose this could be described as a RS232 to USB 'Spatter'. Have to say it certainly does work, certainly on Win7, not so sure on Win10.
BC_Programmer
Yes, going back to Win7 would be one solution. Another would be to replace all the units with another type which is more modern and for which I already have the software installed.
Not sure whether either represents progress, more a backward step to my mind.
In your post you mentioned that alternative software might work.
I have tried to download software published by the manufacturer of the unit, but that won't work because of lack of AppFaceDLL file.
Did a google search and found loads of sites where I could download this file, but also a warning that some of these might not be genuine.
What's your thoughts?
Have to say I know things move fast in the computer world, but the workaround I found involves installing drivers published in 2008.
Hardly 'Stone Age'.
Really need some thoughts on the missing file, so I can try the alternative software.
Really do appreciate the time and help you're giving me on this.
Jeff
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Really need some thoughts on the missing file, so I can try the alternative software.
It sounds like it isn't installing properly. AppFace.dll is not a component of Windows so if a program requires it, it should be installing it.
If it worked on Windows 7, you might try setting the installer to Windows 7 compatibility mode and then installing the program
Have to say I know things move fast in the computer world, but the workaround I found involves installing drivers published in 2008.
Hardly 'Stone Age'.
One might think so, but 2008 was, after all, 9 years ago; That is nearly the same amount of time between the creation of the NSFNet, a forerunner of the Internet, and Google's founding. Two almost entirely different worlds in terms of the computing landscape!
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Thanks for the link. That shows that it was not, as I wrongly thought, an older RS232 device. It is a specific USB device made just for the hobby helicopter control box yum have. It is used to fine turn the parameters of the helicopter control unit. The USB device is specific to the application. I wrongly thought you were using some kind of generic serial to USB adapter.
As BC said, the issue is the software installation on Windows 10. It should be possible to use Windows 10 is some form of compatibility mode. I am going to stop here and let BC carry on. The real issue is how to make this work of Windows. 10.
Your last resort might be to have an old spare PC with Windows 7 for the few times your want to adjust your control box. :D
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Hi Geek
Many thanks for your help anyway.
As far as I can tell, the issue is not with Win10, but the fact that it requires 2008 drivers to make it work. These are no longer available, so even if I had a spare computer, chances are I could not work the software on it anyway.
Only a couple of ideas still remain.
I did find a workaround on a helicopter website. Works fine up until the point of installing the drivers, where they don't give you an install button.
Wonder if you or your colleagues could have a look through this and suggest some way of installing the earlier drivers without needing the install button.
http://leftbraintinkering.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/usb-to-serial-prolific-2303-device.html?m=1
Other than that I still have the alternative software to download, but this requires I find or download an AppFace.dll file.
Not sure where would be a safe place to get this one, or what I do with it afterwards, but seems my only hope.
Cheers
Jeff
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Jeff, please look at this image. Read what it says.
(http://www.geek9pm.club/CH/ZXT_USB.gif)
This says, in effect, the program, the driver and the firmware may be all needed to get your thing to work.
You need to have both the program and the driver in place.
The firmware might be needed just one time to update the USB adapter. Be careful, the firmware can destroy the adapter if it is not perfect and the right version.
Apparently, the USB driver is specific to the program you want to run. You need to find more documentation about the whole things. Is is a very specific application and general coverage of drivers, adapters as such may not help. In fact, you can be lead in the wrong direction. Try and find the exact document that tells how to install the software and the adapter.
Hope this helps... :)
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Hi All
Miracle of miracles, now seems to be working.
Thanks go to Geek, who pointed me in the right direction, although not quite sure it was intentional.
Anyway, Geek.
Not sure the downloads you pointed me to were for the dongle or the unit software. Also, did you try looking at the Installation Driver file.
Doubt you did because you would have found it was in French!!!
Thank god for translation software. Here's the text:
'For win 8 it is necessary to uninstall all trace of other driver Prolific PL2303 because the chipset used here is old and no longer maintained for the win 8 version.
It is necessary to install the old driver Vista or seven, version 1.5
After installation you plug your dongle, it will be recognized but will not work a small yellow triangle appears on it in the device manager.
You can right click on the "Prolific USB-to-Serial Comm Port" device and do "Update driver" and choose "Choose a driver on my computer" then "choose from a list of drivers on my computer" and there in The list you select Prolific USB-to-Serial Comm Port: 3.4.25.218 [07/10/2011]
There you do next and it's won; o))'.
Doesn't make sense as you will find out.
I have a number of dongles, so I didn't mind bricking one in the cause of science.
So, uninstalled current PL2303 drivers. Followed the instructions to the letter. When I got to the stage 'choose from a list of drivers' quite surprised to find I had a choice of three, considering I had uninstalled them. Not quite such a surprise to find that none of them matched the file quoted in the instructions.
I had 2009,2010 and 2017.
On the basis I was working with old chips, chose the 2009 one. Not sure whether I have updated the drivers for the software or the dongle, or maybe neither. To be honest, don't much care.
However, something else came up during this which might have a bearing.
Started off by opening the software first, and the drop down menu on there gave me a choice of Com1 or com2.
Needless to say pc wouldn't talk to the unit. What I did find was that if I plug the dongle into the pc first then fire up the software, it automatically gives me Com3 and will then connect.
So, conclusions.
Could it be so simple that I just need to plug the dongle in first? If so, should be kicking myself. Anyway, no matter. All I need is to check it's still working when I need it for real.
Might have found the answer by accident, but still owe you all a big thankyou for your contributions. Great bunch.
Cheers
Jeff
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Jeff, there is a method to out madness.
Just be glad is was not Japanese.