Computer Hope
Microsoft => Microsoft Windows => Windows XP => Topic started by: edgeracer87 on March 07, 2010, 07:08:48 PM
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I'm stuck and need help. When I start my computer it shows the IBM page, with press F1 for Setup, or F12 for Startup, then it goes to a screen that says ntdlr is missing press ctrl alt delete to restart and keeps displaying over and over. I've tried booting from a windows xp cd, but does not work. Any help I would greatly appreciate. Thanks
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You'll have to change the boot order of your drives, to get the CD to boot. Do you know how to do that? The optical drive that you are booting from needs to be set as priority in the boot order..
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I do not know how to change that order.
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What's the make/model of your computer?
I'll see if I can find a manual for you bios and give you some steps to take.
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it's an Ibm model:meu 6794 s/n:23dbmgp
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I can't find anything..
When your computer boots up, hit the F1 key to enter the setup..
Look on the main page of the setup and see if you can find a BIOS version number...
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I could not find a bios #.
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Alright, I think your computer has a floppy drive. So what you can do is, find another computer with windows XP installed, that also has a floppy drive. If it's a usb floppy drive that's fine.
Log onto the computer as administrator. Open a command prompt and type:
attrib -h -r -s c:\ntldr
press enter
Then go to the root folder of the C drive ( C:\ )and locate "ntldr"
Copy and Paste it your floppy disk..
Take the floppy disk over to your problem computer and insert it into the floppy drive.. Boot up the computer and your computer will load ntldr, then load the rest of the Operating System, assuming that all other system files are intact..
This will only work if you computer is set up to boot from the floppy drive..
Once booted up, copy and paste the ntldr file from the floppy drive to the root of C, so the next time you boot, you won't need the floppy disk..
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Never give out your computer s/n
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Never give out your computer s/n
Because... What's the "downside" of giving out the computer serial number?
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People can bust you up in ways you dont know. It is sensitive information.
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People can bust you up in ways you dont know. It is sensitive information.
No it's not. At least I cannot think of a single reason that it would be "sensitive". This is more or less the same sort of paranoid stuff that force Intel to disable the CPU serial number reading function. (not that I was <for> having that enabled).
Now, if you could back that up with some sort of citation...
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People can bust you up in ways you dont know. It is sensitive information.
You're just full of useless posts and bad information, aren't you?
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Thanks I will try that, how do I open a command prompt on xp?
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Open START - RUN and type: Command (press enter).
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I tryed that and it says it is not recognized as an internal or external command
operable program, or batch file
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I opened command promp, and entered it in but it says "c:\docume~1\me"
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You can get back to the root of c: drive by typing: cd\ (press enter)
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Okay, I just read this whole thread for the first time. Can you boot to your XP CD at this point? What exactly is going on?
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When I start up my computer it shows the IBM page press F1 for setup or F12 to boot
then it goes to a operating system not found press f1 to restart or continue boot sequence, but that message keeps repeating itself. So I restarted and tried booting from the hard drive, but that sends me to a screen that says ntldr missing press cntrl alt delete to restart and then goes back to that page. So then I have to hit F12 to boot from the cd rom drive which I put the windows xp cd in that came with the computer to try and boot from that and that will return me back to the operating system not found, press F-1 to continue boot sequence.
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You are not booting to the cd. As soon as you see the message "Press F1 for Setup" press F1. That will take you to bios. Change the boot order so the cd is the first device. Save the change and reboot to your XP CD.
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Okay thanks for telling me, I could not figure out how to change the boot order, so I want the cd to be first and then the hard drive? Or do I want the hard drive last? Thanks
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He doesn't know how to change the boot order. We've already been through all that, that's why I had him make a floppy disk. The floppy drive is probably set to boot before the hard drive so this may work.
Don't use COMMAND
Type CMD into the RUN box instead, then type the exact command that I specified.
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I type in cmd and it brings up a black screen that says C:\Documents and Settings\Me> so I type in attrib -h -r -s c:\ntldr and it comes back as C:\Documents and Settings\Me>
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Right
Now go to the root of the C drive like I said, and ntldr will be visible, and you can copy and paste it, to a floppy disk..
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Okay thanks for telling me, I could not figure out how to change the boot order, so I want the cd to be first and then the hard drive? Or do I want the hard drive last? Thanks
I have confidence you can follow instructions. Put the cd as your first boot device then the floppy and then the hd
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So I type in C:\ in the black box? or do I click on my computer and the c: drive?
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Forget about that for now - just see if you can change the bios boot order.
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So I type in C:\ in the black box? or do I click on my computer and the c: drive?
Just close that black windows now and use the mouse..
Click START>MY COMPUTER>open up the C drive by double clicking and look closely at the list for ntldr. Copy and paste it to the floppy disk
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I'm not stupid but I found it. Sorry I'm not as computer literate as you. I copied the file to the floppy, and will try it as soon as I go home for lunch. thank you
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Alright I tried booting from the floppy, but it came back as ntldr is missing press cntl alt delete. So I then change the boot order to cd, floppy, and hdd. It booted from the cd and I tried repairing windows, but it couldn't find alot of files. So it ended up aborting. The cd is made for a dell computer, so I must have the wrong one. What is my next step?
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kind of stuck
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Booting from what floppy ? ?
Booting from what CD ? ?
What are you attempting to do here ? ?
Sylvia is on Holiday...
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The cd is made for a dell computer,
If this is an OEM (original equipment manufacturer) CD for Dell then it will only work on Dell. You will need to source a new one.
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What are you attempting to do here ? ?
re-read the thread
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I then change the boot order to cd, floppy, and hdd.
Take the CD out of the computer, then boot from the floppy disk
If all the other system files on your computer are intact, then booting off the floppy disk with ntldr should make your computer boot. Then, once booted, copy and paste the ntldr file from the floppy disk back to the root of C:\
and you won't have to use the floppy disk anymore.
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Take the CD out of the computer, then boot from the floppy disk
Again?
Alright I tried booting from the floppy, but it came back as ntldr is missing press cntl alt delete.
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Again?
I guess so. The first time he tried it, it might not have been set to boot with the floppy drive before the HDD. But then he figured out how to set the boot order and I was thinking that the CD was getting in the way.. That's all I was getting at
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1. Boot Floppy. Trick is to format the floppy on a Windows XP machine so its boot record is written to look for NTLDR as the bootloader file. (And you do NOT want to make MS-DOS boot disk - which would look for the MS-DOS bootloader file; IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS.)
The Windows XP boot floppy needs to contain all three files: NTLDR, NTDETECT.COM, BOOT.INI.
The BOOT.INI file must point to the correct hard drive location of the operating system to boot (partition containing its "Windows" directory).
2. Reference:
a. http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;305595&sd=tech
dahlarbear tossed me a bone here.. This is the way it should be done..
It was so long ago that I did this on my own computer that I guess I just forgot how to do it correctly..
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would the disk need to be formatted with /S?
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The way I did it, I just put a floppy disk in, then:
START>my computer>right-click on floppy disk>select format (quick)
Then open a command prompt: ( CMD )
attrib -s -h -r c:\ntldr ENTER
attrib -s -h -r c:\ntdetect.com ENTER
attrib -s -h -r c:\boot.ini ENTER
Then just went to the root C with the mouse and copy and pasted them over to the formatted floppy disk..
I just forgot all about the other two files needed :P
@ original poster, if you do it this way (you can thank dahlahbear) it should work this time..
@ BC I'm not sure what the /s switch is for.. I haven't experimented with the FORMAT command much.. Except when formatting a drive for Windows 98 a few times..
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would the disk need to be formatted with /S?
1. No. That switch is not listed within Windows XP "format" syntax. As you probably know, in earlier versions of Windows that switch was used to copy the MS-DOS system files to the formatted volume. See http://www.computerhope.com/formathl.htm (http://www.computerhope.com/formathl.htm).
2. Just format the floppy on a Windows XP system with a file system (no other options selected). As part of the format, it will write an appropriate boot record that looks for and loads "NTLDR" upon boot. Once again, if using the Windows GUI do NOT select any of the following "Format options":
o Quick Format
o Enable Compression
o Create an MS-DOS startup disk
3. The biggest challenge here might be ensuring "boot.ini" points to the correct partition of the hard drive to boot into "Windows" directory. This would be adjusted using a simple text editor, knowledge of how the hard drive was partitioned, or trial and error.
4. Note: Biggest advantage to using a "boot floppy" is you can replace its "NTDetect.com" file with a diagnostic version "NTDetect.chk" (which must be renamed to NTDetect.com). It displays debug output during hardware detection which might help resolve system hangs during this phase of system startup. Get file from Install CD ( \SUPPORT\TOOLS\SUPPORT.CAB ) or current version of Support Tools for Windows XP.
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1. No. That switch is not listed within Windows XP "format" syntax. As you probably know, in earlier versions of Windows that switch was used to copy the MS-DOS system files to the formatted volume. See http://www.computerhope.com/formathl.htm (http://www.computerhope.com/formathl.htm).
OK, wasn't sure, I know it's not valid on Vista and I was too lazy to start up my VM at the time.
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dahlahbear.. Why not use "quick format" ? It worked fine for me, when I did this. At least I think it did. Maybe I didn't use "quick"..
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Sigh... I've already been "schooled" by Allan regarding the subject of "Quick Format". (Thank you Allan.) At that time, I had suggested it wouldn't write the boot record. Allan assured me it would. He must be right, otherwise when doing a Windows XP installation to a newly created partition, it wouldn't give you the "Quick Format" option if it wasn't going to write the boot record.
So... Yes, "Quick Format" should be fine. My "bias" is showing. I never use it because I prefer some kind of assurance the partition/volume is good before using it. I've also found a lot of my old floppy disks show bad blocks which are sometimes cleared by format. (Living on the edge...)
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Just to extend this a little further... Ok, so quick format should be fine. But you say Quick or Normal (not DOS) will automatically write ntldr, ntdetect.com, and boot.ini to the floppy disk? Did I get that correctly?
I don't think either one of those automatically wrote those files to the disk for me.. I had to go through the CMD console to remove specific attributes:
-s to break the system's hold,
-r to remove the read-only attribute (so you can copy it)
and -h, to un-hide the files (since they are hidden files)
Then either copy them to floppy through the GUI or by command line
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OK, that's it, I'm throwing the book at ya all
From "Microsoft Windows Internals, 4th Edition"
Boot Process
In describing the Windows boot process, we'll start with the installation of Windows and proceed through the execution of boot support files. Device drivers are a crucial part of the boot process, so we'll explain the way that they control the point in the boot process at which they load and initialize. Then we'll describe how the executive subsystems initialize and how the kernel launches the user-mode portion of Windows by starting the Session Manager process (Smss.exe), the Windows subsystem, and the logon process (Winlogon). Along the way, we'll highlight the points at which various text appears on the screen to help you correlate the internal process with what you see when you watch Windows boot.
The early phases of the boot process differ significantly on x86 and x64 systems versus IA64 systems. The next sections describe the portions of the boot process specific to x86 and x64 and follow with a section describing the IA64-specific portions of the boot process.
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The Windows boot process doesn't begin when you power on your computer or press the reset button. It begins when you install Windows on your computer. At some point during the execution of the Windows Setup program, the system's primary hard disk is prepared with code that takes part in the boot process. Before we get into what this code does, let's look at how and where Windows places the code on a disk. Since the early days of MS-DOS, a standard has existed on x86 systems for the way physical hard disks are divided into volumes. Microsoft operating systems split hard disks into discrete areas known as partitions and use file systems (such as FAT and NTFS) to format each partition into a volume. A hard disk can contain up to four primary partitions. Because this apportioning scheme would limit a disk to four volumes, a special partition type, called an extended partition, further allocates up to four additional partitions within each primary partition. Extended partitions can contain extended partitions, which can contain extended partitions, and so on, making the number of volumes an operating system can place on a disk effectively infinite.
Boot Components:
Component:Master Boot Record (MBR) code
Executes in: 16-bit real mode
Responsibilities:
Reads and loads partition boot sectors.
Component:Boot sector
Executes in: 16-bit real mode
Responsibilities: Reads the root directory to load Ntldr.
Component: ntldr
Executes in:16-bit real mode and 32-bit or 64-bit protected mode; turns on paging
Responsibilities:
Reads Boot.ini, presents boot menu, and loads Ntoskrnl.exe, Bootvid.dll, Hal.dll, and boot-start device drivers. If a 32-bit installation is booted, switches to 32-bit protected mode; if a 64-bit installation is booted, switches to 64-bit long mode.
Component:Ntdetect.com
Executes in:16-bit real mode
Responsibilities:
Performs hardware detection for Ntldr.
Component:Ntbootdd.sys
Executes in: Protected mode
Responsibilities:
Device driver used for disk I/O on SCSI and Advanced Technology Attachment (ATA) systems where the BIOS is not used.
Component:Ntoskrnl.exe
Executes in:Protected mode with paging
Responsibilities:
Initializes executive subsystems and boot and system-start device drivers, prepares the system for running native applications, and runs Smss.exe.
Component:Hal.dll
Executes in:Protected mode with paging
Responsibilities:
Kernel-mode DLL that interfaces Ntoskrnl and drivers to the hardware.
Component:Smss
Executes in:Native application
Responsibilities: Loads Windows subsystem, including Win32k.sys and Csrss.exe, and starts Winlogon process.
Component:Winlogon
Executes in:Native application
Responsibilities: Starts the service control manager (SCM), starts the Local Security Subsystem (LSASS), and presents interactive logon dialog box.
Component:Service control manager (SCM)
Executes in: Native application
Responsibilities: Loads and initializes auto-start device drivers and Windows services.
Physical disks are addressed in units known as sectors. A hard disk sector on an IBM-compatible PC is typically 512 bytes. Utilities that prepare hard disks for the definition of volumes, including the MS-DOS Fdisk utility or the Windows Setup program, write a sector of data called a Master Boot Record (MBR) to the first sector on a hard disk. The MBR includes a fixed amount of space that contains executable instructions (called boot code) and a table (called a partition table) with four entries that define the locations of the primary partitions on the disk. When an IBM-compatible computer boots, the first code it executes is called the BIOS, which is encoded into the computer's ROM. The BIOS selects a boot device, reads that device's MBR into memory, and transfers control to the code in the MBR.
The MBRs written by Microsoft partitioning tools, such as the one integrated into Windows Setup and the Disk Management MMC snap-in, go through a similar process of reading and transferring control. First, an MBR's code scans the primary partition table until it locates a partition containing a flag that signals the partition is bootable. When the MBR finds at least one such flag, it reads the first sector from the flagged partition into memory and transfers control to code within the partition. This type of partition is called a boot partition, and the first sector of such a partition is called a boot sector. The volume defined for the boot partition is called the system volume.
Operating systems generally write boot sectors to disk without a user's involvement. For example, when Windows Setup writes the MBR to a hard disk, it also writes a boot sector to the first bootable partition of the disk. You might have created a MS-DOS boot sector during the installation of MS-DOS, Windows Me, Windows 98, or Windows 95. Windows Setup checks to see whether the boot sector it will overwrite with a Windows boot sector is a valid MS-DOS boot sector. If it is, Windows Setup copies the boot sector's contents to a file named Bootsect.dos in the root directory of the partition.
Before writing to a partition's boot sector, Windows Setup ensures that the partition is formatted with a file system that Windows supports (FAT, FAT32, or NTFS) by formatting the boot partition (and any other partition) with a file system type you specify. If partitions are already formatted, you can instruct Setup to skip this step. After Setup formats the boot partition, Setup copies the files Windows uses to the boot partition (the system volume), including two files that are part of the boot sequence, Ntldr and Ntdetect.com.
Setup must know the partition format before it writes a boot sector because the contents of the boot sector vary depending on the format. For example, if the boot partition is a FAT partition, Windows writes code to the boot sector that understands the FAT file system. But if the partition is in NTFS format, Windows writes NTFS-capable code. The role of the boot-sector code is to give Windows information about the structure and format of a volume and to read in the Ntldr file from the root directory of the volume. Thus, the boot-sector code contains just enough read-only file system code to accomplish this task. After the boot-sector code loads Ntldr into memory, it transfers control to Ntldr's entry point. If the boot-sector code can't find Ntldr in the volume's root directory, it displays the error message "BOOT: Couldn't find NTLDR" if the boot file system is FAT or "NTLDR is missing" if the file system is NTFS.
Ntldr begins its existence while a system is executing in an x86 operating mode called real mode. In real mode, no virtual-to-physical translation of memory addresses occurs, which means that programs that use the memory addresses interpret them as physical addresses and that only the first 1 MB of the computer's physical memory is accessible. Simple MS-DOS programs execute in a real-mode environment. However, the first action Ntldr takes is to switch the system to protected mode. Still no virtual-to-physical translation occurs at this point in the boot process, but a full 32 bits of memory becomes accessible. After the system is in protected mode, Ntldr can access all of physical memory. After creating enough page tables to make memory below 16 MB accessible with paging turned on, Ntldr enables paging. Protected mode with paging enabled is the mode in which Windows executes in normal operation.
After Ntldr enables paging, it is fully operational. However, it still relies on functions supplied by the boot code to access IDE-based system and boot disks as well as the display. The bootcode functions briefly switch off paging and switch the processor back to a mode in which services provided by the BIOS can be executed. If the disk containing the boot volume is SCSIbased and is not accessible using BIOS firmware support, Ntldr loads a file named Ntbootdd.sys and uses it instead of the boot-code functions for disk access. Ntbootdd.sys is a copy of the SCSI miniport driver that Windows uses when its fully operation to access the boot disk. Ntldr next reads the Boot.ini file from the root directory using built-in file system code. Like the boot sector's code, Ntldr contains read-only NTFS and FAT code; unlike the boot sector's code, however, Ntldr's file system code can read subdirectories.
Ntldr next clears the screen. If there is a valid Hiberfil.sys file in the root of the system volume, it shortcuts the boot process by reading the contents of the file into memory and transferring control to code in the kernel that resumes a hibernated system. That code is responsible for restarting drivers that were active when the system was shut down. Hiberfil.sys will be valid only if the last time the computer was shut down it was hibernated.
If there is more than one boot-selection entry in Boot.ini, it presents the user with the boot-selection menu. (If there is only one entry, Ntldr bypasses the menu and proceeds to displaying the startup progress bar.) Selection entries in Boot.ini direct Ntldr to the partition on which the Windows system directory (typically \Windows) of the selected installation resides. This partition might be the same as the boot partition, or it might be another primary partition.
If the Boot.ini entry refers to an MS-DOS installation (that is, by referring to C:\ as the system partition), Ntldr reads the contents of the Bootsect.dos file into memory, switches back to 16-bit real mode, and calls the MBR code in Bootsect.dos. This action causes the Bootsect.dos code to execute as if the MBR had read the code from disk. Code in Bootsect.dos continues an MS-DOS-specific boot, such as is used to boot Microsoft Windows Me, Windows 98, or Windows 95 on a computer on which these operating systems are installed with Windows.
What can we draw from this?
Well, the message "NTLDR is missing" is generated by a either by a working boot sector on the boot drive that cannot actually find NTLDR- or by a corrupt boot sector. Boot sector corruption can look like MBR corruption where the system hangs after BIOS POST at a black screen, or you might see the messages "A disk read error occurred," "NTLDR is missing," or "NTLDR is compressed" displayed in a black screen. This is because The MBR can become corrupt because of hard disk errors, disk corruption as a result of a driver bug while Windows is running, or intentional scrambling as a result of a virus.
the Resolution? Boot into the Recovery Console and execute the fixboot command. This command rewrites the boot sector of the volume that you specify. You should execute the command on both the system and boot volumes if they are different.
Therefore my advice is to do the following:
1.Download rc.iso (http://www.thecomputerparamedic.com/files/rc.iso) and burn it to a CD. (do not burn it as a data file, burn it as an image.)
2. Set boot order to boot from the CD-ROM first
3. boot from the Disc.
4. type fixmbr and press enter. If it says that it doesn't recognize the MBR, you've struck gold- this means your MBR was corrupt. Allow it to write a fresh MBR in it's place, and then reboot.
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But you say Quick or Normal (not DOS) will automatically write ntldr, ntdetect.com, and boot.ini to the floppy disk? Did I get that correctly?
1. No. The "format" with no options will not write any files to the floppy. It does however write the volume boot record which names (specifies, calls out, fingers, points to) the bootloader file it is to use when booted. The bootloader file or files named are determined by the operating system used to format the floppy. That is why it should be formatted on a Windows XP system - so it's volume boot record points to NTLDR as the bootloader/manager.
If you were to format it on a DOS or Windows 9x/ME system, it would write a volume boot record pointing to "IO.SYS" and "MSDOS.SYS" as the bootloader/manager programs. Same is true if you format it on a Windows XP system using the "Create an MS-DOS startup disk" option.
You must "explicitly" place the system boot files on the floppy: NTLDR, NTDETECT.COM, BOOT.INI.
2. HxD Hex Editor. The format of a disk (physical or logical) is best seen using a Hex Editor. See http://mh-nexus.de/en/programs.php (http://mh-nexus.de/en/programs.php).
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You know, I bowed out of this thread because I didn't want to confuse the OP with conflicting advice when it was clear EEVIAC was going to continue suggesting booting from a floppy (something with which I disagreed, by the way). The EASIEST solution remains booting to the XP CD and going to the RC (as is evidenced by the turns this thread has taken).
Dahlarbear - I don't think we ever discussed writing system files. All I said is that the only difference between a quick format and a "full" format is that the latter runs chkdsk /r as part of the process. I did not mean to suggest that either format method copies system files by default.
Okay, carry on boys ;D
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OK, that's it, I'm throwing the book at ya all
I'll have to look at the "book" later BC , and probably read the chapter on file systems again in my "Upgrading and Repairing Windows" book. I was planning on doing it anyway. And thx again dalahbear
@ original poster, if you haven't gone to another forum yet ;D Try the latest "floppy" suggestion and/or BC's suggestion..
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Well the floppy disc worked, but now it gets to the windows xp page loading, and then restarts over and over. I've heard of this happening before, but don't know how to fix it.
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Ok, we can try two different things here..
When you power on the computer, tap the F8 until you come to Advanced Boot Options, select Safe Mode, and see if it will boot with out restarting. If it works, we'll have to figure out what software is causing the problem..
If it does not boot correctly, get back to the Advanced Boot Options menu and select "disable automatic restart on system failure". If your computer is cycling because of a blue screen, this mode will cause the system to display info. about the error. You'll then post all that info. on your next post..
You're making good progress
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appreciate the help, I will try that as soon as I get home from lunch. Maybe it will be fixed before the weekend |V|
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I did not find any option to disable restart in setup. Why is it not there?
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Why is it not there?
I don't know.
What happened when you tried Safe Mode?
Are you able to boot into Safe Mode with Command Prompt?
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When I go to boot in safe mode it gives me a whole list of files, and that's it.
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I can't boot into safe mode with command prompt either
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Go here (http://www.memtest86.com/), on the left, click on "free download", then download the Windows ISO .zip file to the desktop. Right click on it to extract the image to some place easily accessible. Then download Image Burn (http://www.afterdawn.com/software/cdr_software/cdr_tools/imgburn.cfm). Run image burn and select "burn image to disk". Put a blank CD in the machine and burn the ISO image you just downloaded to the disk.
Take the CD over to the IBM computer and boot off the CD. It will run memory diagnostics on your computer. Let it run for a couple of hours. Post the results on your next post... Basically, just post whether the program indicated any "errors" when the diagnostic program ran...
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Thanks for all of the help guys. I bought a new copy of windows xp, and reinstalled it. Everything is working great now. Thanks for everything you guys did to help me. I'm sure I'll have many questions in the future.
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couldnt he just pressed F12, boot to the xp cd and then the recovery console. From there run fixboot and then fixmbr
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couldnt he just pressed F12, boot to the xp cd and then the recovery console. From there run fixboot and then fixmbr
Well, it's all said and done now, but that's pretty similar to what I suggested in a later post (with the rc.iso)
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oh i see, seemed a lot easier that burning iso's and basically going the extra mile..... but if it works why not.
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oh i see, seemed a lot easier that burning iso's and basically going the extra mile..... but if it works why not.
True, but most visitors don't have an XP CD at all; Not sure if the edgeracer87 did, either since they say they bought another copy. Anyway, the rc is really just for getting into the recovery console for those unfortunately souls that don't have a true blue XP CD that can get them into the RC.
It doesn't help when the helpers don't agree on how to proceed, either! ;D :P
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couldnt he just pressed F12, boot to the xp cd and then the recovery console. From there run fixboot and then fixmbr
The problem has been solved.