Computer Hope
Other => Other => Topic started by: chriscool9 on February 21, 2007, 12:33:21 PM
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So basically what do you guys think?! Were the government in on it or was it an act of 'Terrorism'?! Maybe some of you guys have seen the Loose Change video? What do you guys think on that?!
Any feelings or beleifs you have on it?
Chris
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Very provocative topic you've chosen there.
Let's hope feelings don't run too high.
Anyway, my personal feelings on the matter are that it was an act of terrorism against the US.
I don't think the government were in on it, and if they were then the world has sunk far lower than I thought.
Never heard of the Loose Change video, can you direct me to it?
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Conspiracy theories abound. Its like math. Figures don't lie, but liars figure. No government involvement.
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Very provocative topic you've chosen there.
Let's hope feelings don't run too high.
Anyway, my personal feelings on the matter are that it was an act of terrorism against the US.
I don't think the government were in on it, and if they were then the world has sunk far lower than I thought.
Never heard of the Loose Change video, can you direct me to it?
Yea i did think that it was a bit of a touchy subject, that's why I sent a PM to the Admin. Anyway:
http://www.loosechange911.com/lc2e.htm
Chris
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Wow, that's one long video.
I'll take time to watch it (or at least some of it), just not now.
As 2k says, there are conspiracy theories about everything.
Heard the one about the flight number, type it in Wingdings font and you get two towers, a plane and an explosion?
Something like that anyway.
That's a complete fake, the flight number isn't the one used there.
Just another prank by people thinking it's cool to mislead people, you know?
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True, but Ive never seen any 'Conspiracies' be more backed up or believed then this one. It has been a massive hit and will soon be in a Cinemas in America. Personally ive never seen that before.
Chris
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Compare it global warming. Which set of "experts" and "scientists" do you choose to be persuaded by. Keep in mind that theory is what someone thinks is/will/did happen, its not proven fact.
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I don't really know what to think. I some what think the government had a part in it. About the Wingdings thing you mean >this< (http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/q33ny.html). The people that flew the planes into the towers were actually trained by the U.S.
I don't really think that this is just some mere coincidence. But, that's is just my beliefs
http://www.glennbeck.com/news/05172002.shtml
8-)fffreak
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Compare it global warming. Which set of "experts" and "scientists" do you choose to be persuaded by. Keep in mind that theory is what someone thinks is/will/did happen, its not proven fact.
In reverse I argue that it's a theory that there was no government involvement and it has not been proven.
You made a logically fallacy.
Is P true or false? P might be false. Therefore P is false. Nope.
Is P true or false? P might be true. Therefore P is true. The reverse.
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I personally think there are WAY to many 'coincidences' that happened on that day for the Government not to be involved.
Anyone else got any views on it?!
Chris
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Thanks for that link Chris, I am downloading it right now, it is 920MB :o. The dollar bills on that link (http://www.glennbeck.com/news/05172002.shtml) were out way before 9/11, so the government had to have known something.
8-)fffreak
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Ya its big. Ive got the first one they did, and to be honest i wasn't aware there was another one out until i started this topic. Ill try and have a look at it.
Also yea, bit of a coincidence about the money.
Chris
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In reverse I argue that it's a theory that there was no government involvement and it has not been proven.
You made a logically fallacy.
Is P true or false? P might be false. Therefore P is false. Nope.
Is P true or false? P might be true. Therefore P is true. The reverse.
Well.
If we're going to have battles of logic...
It is easier to defend an positive assertion than a negative assertion. Therefore it is expedient to allow the burden of proof to fall on the person asserting the positive. i.e. the person suggesting that there was government involvement must adduce evidence of this. There is no onus on anyone to adduce evidence of non-involvement (that's the logical fallacy) - they merely must rebut the evidence of involvement, if it has any shred of credibility.
;)
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It is easier to defend an positive assertion than a negative assertion. Therefore it is expedient to allow the burden of proof to fall on the person asserting the positive. i.e. the person suggesting that there was government involvement must adduce evidence of this. There is no onus on anyone to adduce evidence of non-involvement (that's the logical fallacy) - they merely must rebut the evidence of involvement, if it has any shred of credibility.
That just totally killed my thinker.
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LOL michael, Rob did make a good point though.
8-)fffreak
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I find it interesting that all the people that have spent 6 years asserting we had the "dumbest" President in a lifetime would have been brilliant enough to allegedly pull something like this off...
"Scuse me Ma'am...just step over that primer cord on your way to your cubicle this morning and don't mind those guys in black with the sunglasses...they're here for your safety...
Makes just as much sense as keeping 48,000 scientists and mathemeticians in the dark and faking a lunar landing...
Get a grip.
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this topic was brought up a while back in another forum that i frequent and quite a few interesting points were brought up.
One really funny point is the person who is meant to be Bin Laden confessing to the attacks looks nothing like him. It is a much larger man and is wearing a wedding ring which is against Bin Laden's religion.
When it was released hardly anybody really new what he actually looked like or much about him at all. Everyone knows what he looks like now.
You may also remember Bin Laden has denied involment in 911, this obviously did not get to much media time.
Ok lets look at it this way........
Moon Landing
1 the US government was looking at stopping the billions of $ being poured into NASA over the years as they were not getting any results
2 the only ppl who could say it was a lie were the russians, and their government had a big food crisis
3 at the same time the americans claimed to have landed on the moon, the russians were given millions of tons of grain
9/11
1Bush was not elected legally into government, he did not have the majority in his first term..... unfortuately the senate would not allow a recount
2Bush as ppl know has trouble stringing sentences together, was looking shaky as a president.. his father a former president was also a war mongerer
3september 11 was a great way to focus the american ppl on another subject, a subject that made them forget the president was a fool and the economy was buggered
Australia......... have you not noticed everytime since sept 11 that our gov comes under fire ie the wheat board scandal.... all of a suddn they release more intelligece info saying we are a likely target for terrorism, and the media focus on that and nothing else
Background info
1 the americans interferred with afghanistan, assisting the rebels (bin laden) to oust the russians. they trained bin laden and his followers and provided arms and $
2 the americans assisted Saddam hussein to take power cos they didnt like the former government, they also gave him $ and turned a blind eye to his murderous ways
3sept 11 was alledgedly reprisals by the afghanistan rebels for all the civilians the americans killed with their wayward missiles
Today
the poms and aussies have been conned into assisting america to clean up the ferkin mess the americans made in the first place.
NEVER take as gospel anything the media present you with.. you are only getting one side of the story....... so far sept 11 has assisted 3 so called democratic governments to impliment even more measures to spy on their own ppl. More measures to control you and the latest aussie access card is another example.
Howards reforms in the workplace take more of your rights away, take the unions out of the picture so they cant help you, give bosses the ability to fire you for no reason, give companies the ability to reduce your pay, making the average aussie family even worse off........ his government has sold off all the electricity/gas companies... he has sold most of telstra.... all these things were originally paid for by aussie workers taxes.
The result is now everything is more expensive, housing is now out of the reach of the average aussie worker........ and if you take time off to protest about this you can be fined $6000.............
also here are a few links with related informatin etc on this topic that i pulled from the other forum i use.
http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/pentagon.htm - a few facts and pics
http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm - if this doesnt make u question it nothing will.
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Thanks for that info, so it is a
conspiracy mere coincidence(I don't believe).
8-)fffreak
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What I have to say is this:
It seems that TV has taught us that 9/11 was caused by Sadamm Who-is-insane and by the country he was leading. We have absolutely no proof of this, it may have been a group of people from Poland, the the UK, or even the US!
Why assume that it was Afghanistan?
And what was all this about WMD's? We never found any... but now I am going into the war or terrorisms.
I am 99.9% positive someone is going to try and prove me wrong
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Here is what I think, I think the US govn't planned the attack, for population control. Then they pinned the blame on another country, Afghanistan, so that we could take their oil and I quote what Blink said,...
september 11 was a great way to focus the american ppl on another subject, a subject that made them forget the president was a fool and the economy was buggered
And that is a good one Zylstra, Suddam Who-is-insane LOL. 'twas true.
8-)fffreak
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Oh, brother. ::)
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I'm surprised nobody has pointed out this link. It's longer than Loose Change, because it goes through a point-by-point rebuttal, usually with sources:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3214024953129565561&q=screw+loose+change
It's a 3-hour download, but I recommend watching it if you've seen LC. Several points are addressed that were made in this very thread, including Usama Bin Laden's gold. It's got info on American laws, Rumsfeld's speech, the way the WTC came down and a heck of a lot more. And it was made by a Canadian. :P
However, I can think of one good reason that Loose Change is complete and utter bull:
[size=20]The fact that this "man" is still alive...
(http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/dylan_avery_big.jpg)
...proves that he's full of *censored*.[/size]
Why? That's Dylan Avery, the creator of Loose Change. Now, let's pretend for a moment that the Government had no qualms about, for whatever reason, killing nearly 3,000 innocent civilians. Let's further pretend that everything Avery says is in fact, truth.
Now that we've accepted this horrible fact (at least for the sake of argument), ask yourself this: What is stopping them from killing Avery and his friends to ensure the safety of this conspiracy? Nothing. And yet, Dylan Avery is still breathing, and, as far as I know, healthy.
Finally, if I could borrow content from the self-proclaimed Best Page in the Universe:
(http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/conspiracy_tot1.gif)
(http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/conspiracy_tot2.gif)
(http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/conspiracy_tot3.gif)
(http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/conspiracy_tot4.gif)
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Well if they killed him that would make the whole situation MORE suspicious..
Of course there was a moon landing. They placed mirrors on the moon that observatories shoot lasers at the measure the distance. Just because one conspiracy theory isn't true doesn't mean the rest are.
Saddam and Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
I don't know whether it's a conpsiracy, I just say blindly believing the goverment is white and pure can be as bad as seeing a conspiracy in everything.
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Here is what I think, I think the US govn't planned the attack, for population control. Then they pinned the blame on another country, Afghanistan, so that we could take their oil and I quote what Blink said,...
september 11 was a great way to focus the american ppl on another subject, a subject that made them forget the president was a fool and the economy was buggered
And that is a good one Zylstra, Suddam Who-is-insane LOL. 'twas true.
8-)fffreak
'twas till saddams head popped off :-X
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Well if they killed him that would make the whole situation MORE suspicious..
Of course there was a moon landing. They placed mirrors on the moon that observatories shoot lasers at the measure the distance. Just because one conspiracy theory isn't true doesn't mean the rest are.
Saddam and Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
I don't know whether it's a conpsiracy, I just say blindly believing the goverment is white and pure can be as bad as seeing a conspiracy in everything.
either way.. we should've atleast laid seige to the oil wells instead of wasting our time else where..
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Well if they killed him that would make the whole situation MORE suspicious..
Ah, but a "mysterious serial killer" can kill them before the video has a chance to become popular. It's not that hard to think of ways to hide it.
Of course there was a moon landing. They placed mirrors on the moon that observatories shoot lasers at the measure the distance. Just because one conspiracy theory isn't true doesn't mean the rest are.
Totally agree.
Saddam and Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
In retrospect, no. However, we thought they did, because we had intelligence that Saddam was creating WMD's. As it happens, he was, by today's definition: Chemical weapons, like nerve agents, are now classified under the same heading as Nuclear Warheads. Doesn't inspire great faith in my government's competence, but it is true. Technically, he was making WMD's thanks to the extremely loose definition of a WMD. Now, did Saddam have anything to do with 9/11? No. However, he wasn't exactly protesting the idea that 20 Arabs fly planes into a few buildings and kill a few thousand "infidels".
I don't know whether it's a conpsiracy, I just say blindly believing the goverment is white and pure can be as bad as seeing a conspiracy in everything.
You're right. Of course, distrust of the government, no matter what it says (don't have to think it's a conspiracy to fall into this category), is equally dangerous.
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Now Blink: ;D 9/11
1Bush was not elected legally into government, he did not have the majority in his first term..... unfortuately the senate would not allow a recount
2Bush as ppl know has trouble stringing sentences together, was looking shaky as a president.. his father a former president was also a war mongerer
3september 11 was a great way to focus the american ppl on another subject, a subject that made them forget the president was a fool and the economy was buggered
_______________________________________ _________
If Al Gore had not been the fool counting chads,Etc.....
He would have been elected in 2004.
Go back to the case of Kennedy and Nixon 1960. Things were questionable then but, Nixon bowed out and was elected in
1968.
Besides who is fool enough as Al Gore to run for president when
you can't win Tennesee.Your own home state. ;D
What Us president was elected and he lost his own state ?
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4 Presidents Off to See the Wizard (G) More Stuff!
Jokeindex Home
Clinton
Parody
Politics
We're off to see the wizard....
The last four U.S. Presidents are caught in a tornado, and off they spin to OZ. After threatening trials and tribulations, they finally make it to the Emerald City and come before the Great Wizard.
"WHAT BRINGS YOU BEFORE THE GREAT AND POWERFUL WIZARD OF OZ? WHAT DO YOU WANT?"
Jimmy Carter steps forward timidly: "I had a terrible time with Iran, so I've come for some courage."
"NO PROBLEM!" says the Wizard, "WHO IS NEXT?"
Ronald Reagan steps forward, "Well..,Well.., Well.., I ... think I need a brain".
"DONE" says the Wizard. "WHO COMES NEXT BEFORE THE GREAT AND POWERFUL OZ?"
Up steps George Bush sadly, "I'm told by the American people that I need a heart."
"I'VE HEARD ITS TRUE." says the Wizard. "CONSIDER IT DONE."
Then there is a great silence in the hall. Bill Clinton is just standing there, looking around, but doesn't say a word.
Irritated, the Wizard finally asks, "WHAT BRINGS YOU TO THE EMERALD CITY?"
"Is Dorothy around?"
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Honestly, some of the stuff people are coming out with here is making me wonder if they're due for their annual cat scans...
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Honestly, some of the stuff people are coming out with here is making me wonder if they're due for their annual cat scans...
rofl. agree'd. but, this coming from a disembodied head?
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Don't mess with me. I'll drip cerebral fluid on you.
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1Bush was not elected legally into government, he did not have the majority in his first term..... unfortuately the senate would not allow a recount
Oddly, he lost the Popular vote, but won the Electoral. Technically, he did win, but it was extremely close.
2Bush as ppl know has trouble stringing sentences together, was looking shaky as a president..
As it happens, I too have a speech impediment: I will think of two synonyms for a word and say them both. Leads me to saying things like "creat" ("cool" and "great"). Yet, I have done my best to help thousands of people with computer trouble, and actually helped them considerably.
My point is simply this: You don't have to speak as well as a lawyer to be intelligent, and picking on G. W. Bush for his speech problems is silly, at best. (Heck, even he makes fun of his speech issues. Which makes your point... shaky, at best.)
his father a former president was also a war mongerer
No, he wasn't. The Gulf War occurred as a result of Iraq invading Kuwait. Wikipedia actually has a decent summary of the Gulf War:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War
Hardly war mongering when you honor a treaty, is it?
3september 11 was a great way to focus the american ppl on another subject, a subject that made them forget the president was a fool and the economy was buggered
I have my doubts that, as Bush stood on the wreckage of the Twin Towers, politics were on his mind when he said:
"I can hear you. And the rest of the nation can hear you. And the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon!
That doesn't sound like a politician. Frankly, he sounds/sounded pissed off. I was too young at the time to know exactly what all the implications were about what 9/11 meant, but had it happened today, I'd be more than a little pissed off myself.
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Honestly, some of the stuff people are coming out with here is making me wonder if they're due for their annual cat scans...
That was a ROTFLMAO moment.Thanks Rob!
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He was referring to you, street1... ::)
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You don't have to speak as well as a lawyer to be intelligent
Oh, but you do.
;D
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He was referring to you, street1... ::)
Yes,I know. That is why I was ROTFLMAO.
I enjoy laughing at me too when someone does
an LOL.
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You don't have to speak as well as a lawyer to be intelligent
Oh, but you do.
;D
My mothers a lawyer and I understand her more then what you said earlier about defending positive and negative assertions.... (What ever they are) ;D
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Don't mess with me. I'll drip cerebral fluid on you.
err.. i might want to fix that.. anyone got duct tape?