Computer Hope
Other => Other => Topic started by: billrich on March 17, 2009, 12:18:52 PM
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How many people use Dos Batch?
.1 of 1% of all computer users ever use Dos Batch?
Or is it less than .1 of 1 percent?
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That's like asking how many people use Dos. Judging by the number of active Dos dedicated forums Dos in its many forms seems to be still alive & kicking.
This excludes the Command Interpreter in Windows NT which isn't really Dos but a Windows program which looks, and in some ways acts, like Dos and which many users refer to as Dos.
To get a better response you could start a poll on the subject of Dos batch scripting. ;D
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Hed,
I use Windows XP and I guess the Dos lookalike that keeps expanding the for loop code and other code.
It is easy to get caught up in the DOS Batch coding but it is really a waste of time since so few people understand or use Batch. We can use our time better in other ways and let other people get lost in their own little world of "DOS Batch."
I will allow you to conduct the poll.
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We can use or time better in other ways
Such as?
(I mean Computer time too, so no answers like "going outside") ;D
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How many people use Dos Batch?
I use Windows XP and I guess the Dos lookalike that keeps expanding the for loop code and other code.
Now why did I imagine you'd be talking pure unadulterated Dos ???
.1 of 1% of all computer users ever use Dos Batch?
Or is it less than .1 of 1 percent?
Please substantiate the figures you quote and perhaps give a comparison with how many computer users ever use C++. I would think that the vaaaast majority of computer users never ever use any programming/scripting language and are quite happy to just use an e-mail system with a bit of web surfing thrown in.
It is easy to get caught up in the DOS Batch coding but it is really a waste of time since so few people understand or use Batch.
That's possibly why a truly reputable site such as Computer Hope has a forum dedicated to "MS-Dos and the Windows command prompt discussions and help". So try introducing a greenhorn to C++ or Assembler :'(
I will allow you to conduct the poll.
How very kind of you, thanks but no-thanks
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Bill wrote:
We can use our time better in other ways.
Bc asked:
"Such as?"
Bill explains:
1) Learn HTML code and create a web site: ( 100% of all users use web sites unlike the 1/10 of one percent who use "Dos Batch Code."
2) Take refesher courses in "C" and "C++"
3) Help the new computer users with their problems. ( If we could only avoid silly input from others who try to help by saying: "The brightness control on your monitor is bad. Throw you monitor away and buy a new monitor.")
4) Learn more about online video. ( More than 50% of all users are interested in video unlike the 1/10 of one percent who use "Dos Batch Code."
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Alot of people use Batch, its built-in to Windows without any extra software.
Which means easy Game making(simple games), Simple often Tasks(like clean cookies from your Temp)
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Its fun to mess around with
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Bill wrote:
We can use our time better in other ways.
Bc asked:
"Such as?"
Bill explains:
1) Learn HTML code and create a web site: ( 100% of all users use web sites unlike the 1/10 of one percent who use "Dos Batch Code."
2) Take refesher courses in "C" and "C++"
3) Help the new computer users with their problems. ( If we could only avoid silly input from others who try to help by saying: "The brightness control on your monitor is bad. Throw you monitor away and buy a new monitor.")
4) Learn more about online video. ( More than 50% of all users are interested in video unlike the 1/10 of one percent who use "Dos Batch Code."
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All very good alternatives!
The way I see it, for some users who don't even realize it, Batch programming will become a stepping stone to other, more robust programming environments.
Another, more important thing is to keep in mind there are a lot of niches for programming; there are still projects being developed for the original Nintendo, in 6502 Assembler; and in fact some clever folks have devised a version of BASIC that compiles into a NES ROM.
Now obviously a very slim number of people even know about this- even less take part in it. Those that do enjoy it, and like to learn about the architecture of the NES.
I'm somewhat on the fringe of the NES dev community myself- only really learning enough to write a emulator that successfully runs a few select non-mapper games, such as balloon fight and Mario Bros. (not Super Mario Bros., mind you).
Honestly however I think you are missing the entire point- Batch code has a purpose. Perform tasks on the command-line, and it can do that very well. web sites- PHP, ASP, CGI, and so forth have completely different use cases from command-line batch programming, and more importantly, batch programs can comprise CGI programs.
More than 50% of all users are interested in video
There is that word again- interested, as if we're trying to establish a target audience for a product. The problem is- we're not. How a person decides to use their time and what they like to do in their spare time should not be bore by the number of other people taking part.
Also, Like Hedonist, I am curious where your statistics come from.
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Of course, I didnt read all of the topic, but, I have to say one thing:
Batch is not a programming language.
Now, get out your "old-skool" chalkboard, and write this 100 more times... and, using the ledger line writer is cheating.
People use Batch all the time, usually without noticing or knowing, or being able to know it due to lack of knowledge as to what is going on.
Many program installations use Batch, its the perfect dynamic script, your in the middle of a sub program that was started in batch, and you need to add something to an installation step? No problem! Append the file, add more, it reads it from the top down.
EDIT:
Also, larger networks connected to a domain also use batch... usually to start up programs when a user logs in, or update something, start another program, or even to start an entirely different script.
A lot of system administrators use Batch to have network drives automatically mapped to a network share.
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Of course, I didnt read all of the topic, but, I have to say one thing:
Batch is not a programming language.
Now, get out your "old-skool" chalkboard, and write this 100 more times... and, using the ledger line writer is cheating.
Before this turns into it I'll just reference the already done discussion about this:
http://www.computerhope.com/forum/index.php?topic=76425.0;all
to summarize my view I wouldn't really consider Pure DOS batch a programming language- but the NT command interpreter adds control flow and execution contexts so it would be a bit difficult to say it isn't a programming language, even if it has blacker fur then the rest of them.
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Bc and Hed,
The numbers I used in post number one were not stated as facts but as questions? The questions posed were to suggest an all consuming preoccupation with "Dos Batch" was with a small insignificant number of people.
Post #1 was:
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How many people use Dos Batch?
.1 of 1% of all computer users ever use Dos Batch?
Or is it less than .1 of 1 percent?
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Batch programming will become a stepping stone to other, more robust programming environments.
in what ways is batch programming a stepping stone to more robust programming environments? maybe you can give examples.
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I like computers :)
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More than 1% of users will use Batch.
Lets see... Windows holds, what, 90% of the market share?
All Mac users have, at one point, used Windows.
Technically, 99% of all computer users have used it. While knowing it? Thats impossible to know.
Really, there is no way to calculate this. If this is homework or a question someone asked you that needs this specific answer, stick it in their face.
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I'm pretty sure I know exactly where the question came from, it's a vain attempt to try to prove some form of Inadequacy on the part of Dias De Verano by making an unsubstantiated claim that he's wasting his time working with Batch, the sad thing is it actual proves quite the reverse when somebody is willing to go out of their way and essentially waste their own time trying to substantiate false claims with invented facts to nuture an innate need to at least seem important, but I'm not a psychologist.
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But think of it this way. Batch is a programming language when you compile it into a EXE.
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But think of it this way. Batch is a programming language when you compile it into a EXE.
huh?
you cannot compile batch.
programs that claim to do so merely wrap saving a batch file to a temporary folder and executing it.
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But think of it this way. Batch is a programming language when you compile it into a EXE.
i think you have misunderstood what a programming language is.
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i think you have misunderstood what a programming language is.
that too ;D
being able to "compile" is merely the difference between an interpreted programming language and a compiled one. If that was the only definition of a programming language then VBScript wouldn't be one, and neither would perl or any number of other programming languages.
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it's a vain attempt to try to prove some form of Inadequacy on the part of Dias De Verano
:)
Thanks for that "vain".
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well Batch is just a Scripting language like JavaScript, the final file is the same as the source code.
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well Batch is just a Scripting language like JavaScript, the final file is the same as the source code.
It doesn't make sense to call a batch script "source code", really, I reckon, because there isn't any "object code"...
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True...but its a Scripting language period, not an actual Programming language.
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True...but its a Scripting language period, not an actual Programming language.
Why are you trolling like Billrich? That's bollocks, I'm afraid. A scripting language is a kind of programming language. There are many kinds of programming languages, and scripting languages are a sub category. Unless you can show differently? (I don't think you can.)
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True...but its a Scripting language period, not an actual Programming language.
lol
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Some peoples reasoning process seems to run thus:
1. A programming language is what I decide is a programming language.
2. Scripting is not programming (because I say so)
3. Therefore batch scripting is not programming
However...
Scripting languages are programming languages designed to make programming tasks easier.
-Jeremy Sanders (Cambridge University)
http://www-xray.ast.cam.ac.uk/~jss/lecture/computing/notes/out/programming/
The Scriptometer tries to measure whether a programming language can be easily used for SOP (Script-Oriented Programming).
C# scores 9; sh scores 151, VBScript is 86
http://merd.sourceforge.net/pixel/language-study/scripting-language/
The Hecl Programming Language is a high-level, open source scripting language implemented in Java.
http://www.hecl.org/
scripting language
A high-level programming language that is interpreted (translated on the fly) rather than compiled ahead of time. A scripting language may be a general-purpose programming language or it may be limited to specific functions used to augment the running of an application or system program. For example, JavaScript is widely used on Web pages for calculations as well as for displaying messages, drop-down menus and other user interface elements. Perl, Tcl and Python are very comprehensive programming languages that are often called scripting languages.
http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/scripting+language
scripting languages definitely have a useful role to fill in most programmer's toolchests
http://www.mactech.com/articles/mactech/Vol.15/15.09/ScriptingLanguages/index.html
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Scripting is not programming (because I say so)
Have my proof :D
But heck...i really dont care whether Batch isn't this or that...lets just appreciate it's usefullness ;)
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Have my proof
So far it hasn't showed up.... ::)
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i know.
but Batch is a language by your choice of whether it is or isnt
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i know.
but Batch is a language by your choice of whether it is or isnt
Whatever that means.
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It's kind of like the difference between the truth and a lie, you can believe the truth, or just believe the lie.
Either way your only lying to yourself.
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So if I want to believe a VW Golf is a plane, that's OK is it? Does that mean that if I drive really fast and and shout "v1! .... v2! .... ROTATE!" and yank on the steering wheel a bit, the thing will actually fly? Do tell, Mr MacDad!
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No...im not trying to be a mister "know it all"
Im just saying that you can say Batch is a programming language or not by your opinion.
So In my opinion i say that Batch is a language. JUST in my opinion.
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The trouble is, computer science is a subject taught in schools and colleges and if they all say that batch and script languages are programming languages and somebody says it's their right to have the opposite opinion, they end up looking like a "prat" as we say in the UK.
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True.
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My point is that it's perfectly all right to say that Windows batch language is an ugly language, or a crude language, or a limited language - these are matters of opinion. To say that it is not a programming language is to make an error of fact.
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This isn't really a matter of opinion. It either is a programming language or it isn't.