Computer Hope
Microsoft => Microsoft Windows => Windows Vista and 7 => Topic started by: Accessless on June 01, 2015, 10:09:13 AM
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The Windows 10 upgrade option has appeared on my task bar today but it sounds like a windows update style installation. My computer would be much better off with a fresh installation of Windows (it's a mess). I've been putting it off for a while now as I knew Windows 10 was only months away.
So does anyone know how this upgrade is supposed to work? I've done plenty of reading on the subject but most of the info seems to be wishful thinking and conjecture.
I made two good calls with the last two versions of Windows. Jumped onto 7 early and ignored 8 completely. But I'm not sure about 10. I would like some time to work with it and do some testing.
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Best way and cleanest method to do this would be install the build preview (latest) on a seperate HDD...and use your BIOS to determine which OS/HDD you want to boot to...
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Best way and cleanest method to do this would be install the build preview (latest) on a seperate HDD...and use your BIOS to determine which OS/HDD you want to boot to...
I've heard that the previews aren't very stable at the moment. To be honest Windows 10 is sounding a bit rushed. Just like an early access alpha game, not even ready for testing but they're going to ship it anyway.
I'm quite interested in Windows 10 but I'm thinking that it will be worth while to wait on this one.
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I've heard that the previews aren't very stable at the moment. To be honest Windows 10 is sounding a bit rushed. Just like an early access alpha game, not even ready for testing but they're going to ship it anyway.
They have put pretty good effort into testing Windows 10 via the Technical Preview/evaluation/alpha testing. Many people like myself have registered to download the ISO and play with the OS and report problems to the microsoft forum. While its a pretty solid OS, there is always chances for problems if for example you have a hardware or software combination working with Windows 10 that had not been tested to that point to work out bugs. So the more probable you are to running a system config hardware and software to others out there the more probable that your less likely to have issues. If you have a odd outdated hardware custom build such as running Windows 10 32-bit on a 2Ghz Pentium 4 with 1GB of RAM in a 13 year old eMachine motherboard of which driver support ended at XP, you are more prone to having issues as well, mostly with finding driver support but also with resource conflicts that might not happen with a newer system etc. The 2Ghz Pentium 4 is the slowest and oldest computer I have gotten Windows 10 to operate on. It was slow running on that old hardware, but it ran, and I found an interesting bug when running command shell and executing the edit command to edit a text file in which I was going to test out batch execution on 32-bit Windows 10 and found a problem quickly with that.
If you want to hold off on the upgrade thats the safest approach to this. I am going to hold off for a few months after release before upgrading some of my systems from 7 to 10, and my ASUS laptop that came with 8 and downgraded to 7, I am planning on upgrading it to 10 to base the license off of the original Windows 8 license that came with the laptop and free up my Windows 7 64 Home premium license.
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The bottom line for the moment is can I get a fresh installer or bodge one? I.e. Do a fresh Win7 install and then upgrade.
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I've heard that the previews aren't very stable at the moment.
I run it on my old desktop system and it has run just fine for me. The only negative thing I can think to say about it in it's current state is probably that there is no way that i can see to bring back >1px Window borders.
The bottom line for the moment is can I get a fresh installer or bodge one? I.e. Do a fresh Win7 install and then upgrade.
The previews are provided via an ISO that you can use to perform a fresh install. However if you're question is about when Windows 10 is actually made available, I don't know if that will be an option. If it is I can see it maybe working like the older Windows "Upgrade" products, where you could buy a Windows 98 "upgrade" which you could clean install but would prompt for a Windows 3.1 or Windows 95 Disk/Product key. That is in the case of Windows 10 I expect[/u] they will make an ISO available that will allow you to enter a Windows 7/8 Key or a Windows 10 Key to install clean. But of course I do not know that they will do it that way.
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The bottom line for the moment is can I get a fresh installer or bodge one? I.e. Do a fresh Win7 install and then upgrade.
I would ideally like to have these Acronis image backups so I can have maximum flexibility:
1. My existing Windows 7 install
2. The same, upgraded to Windows 10
3. A clean install of Windows 7, off my OEM install disk, upgraded to Windows 10
I don't know if Microsoft will let me have 2 bites at the cherry like that, though?
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Since you are doing this on your own and if done properly it should work fine...
I see no issues with liscensing or restrictions that would violate their EULA...
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I see no issues with liscensing or restrictions that would violate their EULA...
If Windows 10's upgrade license is consistent with all previous versions of Windows, than doing so would violate the EULA. For example, this is the relevant part from a Windows 8 Upgrade EULA:
The software covered by this agreement is an upgrade to your existing operating system software, so the upgrade replaces the original software that you are upgrading. You do not retain any rights to the original software after you have upgraded and you may not continue to use it or transfer it in any way.
And the relevant part from Windows 7:
15. UPGRADES. To use upgrade software, you must first be licensed for the software that is eligible for the upgrade. Upon upgrade, this agreement takes the place of the agreement for the software you upgraded from. After you upgrade, you may no longer use the software you upgraded from.
(They have similar parts in the EULA going back to at least the Windows 95 Upgrade)
I see no reason not to think Microsoft will remain consistent in this going forward.
Of course whether it works and whether it violates the EULA are two different questions :P
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I agree with Patio on the EULA... As long as only 1 OS of the same system key is active at a time, it should be fine. I have plans to clone my one windows 7 systems drive with a stand alone drive duplicator prior to the 10 upgrade and use my removable drive bay to have the choice for 7 or 10 to boot. I could place both drives in there and make a dual boot system, but its best to have a level of isolation between both drives for example in case 1 gets hit with something bad, it cant spread to the other drive etc.
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Which is why i suggested a seperate HDD...
On top of that MS lost a suit stating that a User who has purchased a liscense for an existing OS does NOT lose legal rights to the proper use of that OS ...even if they agreed to an upgraded OS.
You won't find any of this in the media for obvious reasons.
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One could suppose that Microsoft used that language to make sure nobody will use the two OS on two different computers. But using the two OS on one computer should not be a violation.
I doubt MS would ever imprison a user for having a dual boot system. Can you imagine that? Sending somebody to jail for the dual boot infraction? :P
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I'm not worried about getting in legal trouble; only about Microsoft declaring I have an unlicensed OS and deactivating it. If I can't roll back the upgrade if I choose to, I think I won't bother.
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PM Salmon...
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On top of that MS lost a suit stating that a User who has purchased a liscense for an existing OS does NOT lose legal rights to the proper use of that OS ...even if they agreed to an upgraded OS.
No such suit has ever been filed that I can find evidence for. Assuming that somehow the court documents on the civil case were sealed (which isn't usually possible) how did you come to find out about it?
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About Microsoft cripples pirate software.
An article published d a few days ago indies that Microsoft was doing that and now they will let up. All to promote Windows 10.
Reference:
http://www.windowscentral.com/you-can-upgrade-windows-10-free-even-if-youre-using-pirated-version-windows
Title:
Windows 10 for free, even if you're running a pirated version [Updated]
Author: Harish Jonnalagadda
Date :Thursday, Mar 19, 2015
Original story In what may turn out to be an historic move in the battle against piracy, Microsoft's Terry Myerson has announced that the software vendor will allow all customers — whether they're running genuine Windows software or a pirated version — to upgrade to Windows 10 for free
[I am shaking my head,but I am not confused.] ???
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That article is published all around different news sites to get cheap views from the headline. It is somewhat misleading.
Yes, pirated copies will get the update to Windows 10. This however is not because Microsoft have suddenly decided that they want pirates to get it, it is simply because they cannot often detect if a copy is pirated - The update is delivered over Windows update so if a given pirate copy can receive Windows updates, it will receive the Windows 10 update.
However, what the articles fail to clearly explain is the update will not somehow give the user a magically genuine copy of Windows - It is still pirated.
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That article is published all around different news sites to get cheap views from the headline. It is somewhat misleading.
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However, what the articles fail to clearly explain is the update will not somehow give the user a magically genuine copy of Windows - It is still pirated.
Yes, it is not a 'get out of jail free card'. Anybody who is active in circulating pirated MS material may still be prosecuted by low. BTW: That might include anybody who installed a torrent agent on their PC to do a p2p copy of a bogus MS OS. Some users still don't get it. When you torrent, you consent. 8)
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I would think being prosecuted by low would be painful...
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I would think being prosecuted by low would be painful...
:rofl:
Low prosecution is becoming more common in some areas. :P
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My computer would be much better off with a fresh installation of Windows (it's a mess).
Just heard something relevant to this thread on one of the mailing lists- particularly relevant to Clean installs.
Basically, if you have Windows 7 or Windows 8/8.1 on July 29th, you will be eligible to upgrade to Windows 10 for free for up to a year.
Since it is like all previous upgrade installs, this means the license for the version you are upgrading get's upgraded, so you will no longer "have" a Windows 7/Windows 8 License. Windows 10 will likely include some form of downgrade rights, which in terms of the free license will likely give you downgrade rights to downgrade that free Win10 license back to the original version you had.
If you need to reinstall your Operating System, the license provided will allow you to clean install Windows 10 on the device.
If you need to reinstall your OS? The good news is that the license Microsoft is providing will allow you to clean install Windows 10 on the same device at any time.
According to this (http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2015/03/16/how-windows-10-achieves-its-compact-footprint/) post, Windows 10 will have a "Windows Reset" functionality which would effectively return the system to a "clean install" state. I imagine Windows 10 ISOs will be available that can be used with an upgraded license as well.
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From link given by BC_programmer above:
(http://az648995.vo.msecnd.net/win/2015/03/1a.png)
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If you need to reinstall your OS? The good news is that the license Microsoft is providing will allow you to clean install Windows 10 on the same device at any time.
I'm slightly concerned about the "same device" thing. Most of my copies of Windows 7 and 8(.1) are either retail or MSDN which can be moved between machines so I'd be worried if I were to update a machine to 10 from one of those copies and therefore tie the copy of 10 to that hardware and at the same time effectively nullify the licence I had that could be moved machine.
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I'm slightly concerned about the "same device" thing. Most of my copies of Windows 7 and 8(.1) are either retail or MSDN which can be moved between machines so I'd be worried if I were to update a machine to 10 from one of those copies and therefore tie the copy of 10 to that hardware and at the same time effectively nullify the licence I had that could be moved machine.
Dreamspark/MSDN/etc. licenses will likely be handled differently than Retail- At least, I would expect them to. It would be very odd for a Windows 7 Product Key tied to your MSDN account to "invalidate" itself when you perform the upgrade. (Of course- Windows 10 will be available via MSDN so you'd be able to clean install using an ISO provided there anyway)
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Yay! I've started an argument.
I think the problem here is that Microsoft haven't explained themselves well enough. Until they get their act together and present people with the facts, I don't think that they will be swaying the masses in favor of upgrading any time soon.
Shame, I was quite exited about this upcoming version.
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So if you have a Win7 install...and you decide to upgrade to 10...and decide you don't like it...does it mean you can't go back to 7 ? ?
Once again MS has muddied the waters with what can...and can't be done.
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So if you have a Win7 install...and you decide to upgrade to 10...and decide you don't like it...does it mean you can't go back to 7 ? ?
Upgrade versions have been available since Windows 95. Windows 10's upgrade version being offered for free is unlikely to be inconsistent with their former upgrade versions.
"Upgrade" Licenses include as part of their terms that you already have a license for an applicable previous version, and as part of the terms of the new version, that old one is invalidated.
For example, if you had Windows 95 Installed and bought a Windows 98 upgrade, that Windows 98 Upgrade's License, as part of it's terms, requires that you effectively yield a license for an applicable piece of software. In the case of Windows 98 Upgrade, it requires Windows 3.1 or Windows 95 to be yielded. However, this is only in effect as long as the Windows 98 Upgrade is installed. If you uninstall it, than the license is no longer in use and you can freely use the licenses that you had yielded while it was in use. Note that if you get a Full copy of Windows 98 and upgrade Windows 95, that Windows 95 License is still completely valid- it is only Upgrade Editions of Windows 95,98, ME, XP, Vista, etc. that require you to yield an applicable product's license in order to make use of the new one- upgrading with a full retail copy using the "Upgrade" option does "free up" the license for the older version- if you use a retail copy of Windows XP to upgrade Windows 98, for example, than that Windows 98 License is "free" to be used again.
The WIndows 10 "upgrade" is an "upgrade" version, however- and I find it doubtful that they will change the rules regarding upgrade versions significantly for Windows 10. Therefore, in your scenario, it would be exactly like it would have played out with any previous version of Windows and an applicable upgrade.
If you have Windows 7, and upgrade to Windows 10, part of the upgrade requires you to have an applicable product, as well as yield the license for the product.
If you uninstall Windows 10, that "yielded" license can be used again. What you cannot do (if you want to adhere to the EULA, anyway) is upgrade Win7 to Windows 10, and then use that Windows 7 license to install to another computer, because the Win10 upgrade "yields" that license of Win7.
Effectively the Free WIndows 10 upgrade is offering a free Windows 10 upgrade version to everybody for a year that has Windows 7 or 8. Once you "have" the upgrade, it will effectively be like having an "upgrade edition" that you can use at any time, as long as you yield an applicable software license while doing so.
With Windows 98 there was an upgrade option. You would upgrade Windows 95 to Windows 98 with a Windows 98 Upgrade CD.
The license of the Windows 98 upgrade version had as part of it's terms that you had a eligible copy of Windows 95, and that, further, the windows 98 Upgrade "replaced" it in terms of the license applicability. This meant that you couldn't upgrade a Windows 95 computer and then install that copy of Windows 95 on another computer- that license no longer "exists" because it is part of the Windows 98 install. (Of course, nothing stopped you from doing this)
You could uninstall Windows 98 and reinstall Windows 95, however. The Windows 98 License was tied to the Windows 95 License, but uninstalling Windows 98 freed that license.
Since this is how it has been done with upgrade versions since windows 95, I don't see why it would work any different with Windows 10. The only difference is the upgrade edition is being offered for free.
it is not unreasonable to conclude based on that, If you upgrade a Windows 7 system to Windows 10, you cannot reuse that Windows 7 license on another system unless you also uninstall Windows 10- same as the Win98 Upgrade- it is tied to the license of an applicable product in that part of the terms of the upgrade version include the invalidation of the license of the upgraded version for the duration of your use of the version being upgraded to. But once you uninstall Windows 10, that upgraded Windows 7 license is no longer invalidated because the Windows 10 EULA no longer applies, since it only invalidates the previous versions license when it is installed.
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Also a worrying aspect of this "upgrade" is that it is apparently set to be automatic. I.e. Windows update will automatically install Windows 10 as an important update.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/05/12/free-windows-10-has-high-cost/
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Also a worrying aspect of this "upgrade" is that it is apparently set to be automatic. I.e. Windows update will automatically install Windows 10 as an important update.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/05/12/free-windows-10-has-high-cost/
The article uses very poor reasoning.
Their reasoning is that since the notification update is set as an Important update, that the Windows 10 update itself will be an important update.
There is no basis for this. It is wild conjecture.
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So does anyone know how this upgrade is supposed to work? I've done plenty of reading on the subject but most of the info seems to be wishful thinking and conjecture.
Hence why this thread is pointless until Microsoft comes up with some answers.
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Hence why this thread is pointless until Microsoft comes up with some answers.
Well... I found it interesting to read. ;D