Computer Hope
Hardware => Hardware => Topic started by: grapefruit on August 28, 2010, 12:31:13 PM
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I've recently started getting serious problems with my computer and everytime I find and fix a problem, more problems come up and it's only getting worse! I've been having this computer for 6 years by now and never had even a single freeze or bluescreen, ever.
A week ago, when I turned it off normally, I noticed several processes failing during Windows' shutdown. I didn't think anything of it at first: the thing is old and often runs low on memory, causing similar bugs. Anyway, the next day when, the thing wouldn't turn on at all. The power LED would light up, the CPU and power supply fans would start, but that's about it. Nothing on screen, nothing loading, and it would turn off on its own after a few minutes.
So I unplugged it, opened the casing, and cleaned it throughoutly, thinking that dust might be clogging the CPU fan (happened once a few years ago and that was the problem). Still wouldn't turn on though.
I started testing the hardware. Sometimes it would boot, but would eventually power off on its own after a short while. Turns out it was a faulty RAM stick. Works fine with only 1 stick, but slow as bloody *censored*, obviously.
I went and bought a new pair of RAM sticks to replace the old ones. The first time I turn it on after that, it boots fine, works perfectly, even lots faster than it originally was. It shows no sign of being defective whatsoever, so I decide to test the new RAM to check stability. At first, no issues, everything goes fine... then suddently, a whole bunch of new symptoms appear. First, the computer becomes incredibly laggy and unresponsive for no apparent reason then when I click around, it completely freezes and beeps continuously. I decide to put the ram sticks in other slots, just in case...
I push the power button again... the CPU's fan is doing a weird crackling sound but it is running... before Windows finishes loading, after logging on, another huge lag appears. The task bar won't show up when I hover the mouse on the bottom of the screen, no program will run, and I get error messages when trying to shut down.
Third attempt at powering on the system: This time nothing happens when I press the power button. But it ends up booting many seconds after pressing it a few repeated times. As soon as the Windows boot screen appears, everything completely freezes.
Any help would be incredibly appreciated!!!
Model: Medion M3 Composer 4100
CPU: Intel Pentium4 @ 2.8Ghz
RAM: 2x512Mb DDR @ 400mhz (originally 2x256Mb DDR @ 400mhz)
HD: Seagate 160Gb
Note: Before anyone says "Your pc is too old, buy a new one": I don't have the money for that.
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I have almost the same model, a 5100; found it in the trash with everything missing except the case, motherboard & CPU. After rebuilding it, it's now my primary computer.
Seeing as it's the original hard drive, I would test it first, it's more than 5 years old. Get the Seagate SeaTools for DOS, burn a CD and boot from it. If you think you can keep the computer running for a while, try SeaTools for Windows.
http://www.tacktech.com/display.cfm?ttid=287
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The hard drive does work properly, I'm using it right now with no issue at all.
Unfortunately I dont think I can keep the comp running long enough for that. I'll check if there is a way to check a secondary drive with these tools though, and connect the drive to my laptop to perform said tests.
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Update: I was able to perform a long generic test on the hard drive using seatools. The test was successful, no problems were detected.
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That's good! Lets see if something is overheating or voltages are out of spec or the fan is spinning too slowly.
Try this: http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html
Capture a screenshot & post it here (Under Additional Options, below Message, for upload)
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It would actually help if I was at least able to start the computer up and manage to get it to run long enough to run that... As it is now, I'm lucky if I even get to the user screen...
I do know CPU temperatures get high though, I've been monitoring them on a regular basis since the last few years, but they stabilize long before it becomes hazardous.
Gonna rebuild the comp now to initialize all hardware connections, and try to boot up/run the tool. I'll update later with the results, if it has worked.
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Update: Okay! I have both good and bad news.
The good news: I was able to start up the computer and run under safe mode for a good while without any problem. I was able to perform a full scan using MalwareBytes, and run both HWmonitor and Speedfan.
The bad news: Right after finishing the scan, the continuous beep came. However this time it did NOT freeze. It just became veeery slow, with several unresponsive programs, and that beep. Unfortunately, that was before I could save any screencap of HWmonitor and Speedfan. When trying to open MSPaint I'd get this error message:
"The application or DLL c:/WINDOWS/AppPatch/acGeneral.DLL is not a valid Windows image. Please check this against your installation diskette."
And when trying to bring the alt/ctrl/del Window, I'd get this error message:
"taskmgr.exe failed to initialize properly."
The reason why I brought up Speedfan is because HWmonitor didn't show much data at all. Only one temperature to be exact (the hard drive one), nothing else, while speedfan showed many, as well as the speed of the fans. From what I have seen, the CPU temperature is a bit high, as expected, around 79 celcius. Other temps were either below 50 or just plain bogus (I had a -56....). The CPU fan was said to be over 4000 rpm. However, there were 2 other fan data at 0rpm. The only other fan in the computer is the power supply one. So either it is not working (either defective, or temps too low to need to work), either it's bogus data once again.
I have searched for BIOS beep codes to find the meaning of that one long neverending beep, to no avail. I use a Phoenix BIOS. They have a huge range of detailed beep codes, but nothing is said about a single continuous beep. For most other BIOS though, these mean a power supply problem.
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Find a power supply of equal or greater wattage. Swap it with yours and see if your problems persist.
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CPU: Intel Pentium4 @ 2.8Ghz
the CPU temperature is a bit high, as expected, around 79 celcius.
That is not "a bit high". That is very high indeed. If it is a true reading, you have a hardware failure situation. This may well explain the other symptoms.
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That is not "a bit high". That is very high indeed. If it is a true reading, you have a hardware failure situation. This may well explain the other symptoms.
I've been having this reading (and sometimes higher, during intensive use) for years and I've never had any problem. I still need to put some new thermal paste on though, to make sure the cooling is optimal. If it keeps crashing after that, I'll monitor temperatures until said crash to see if it could be in any way related.
I do suspect the power supply too though, since these problems began after replacing the RAM sticks with newer and greater ones. I'll try running the pc with the soundcard removed, in a attempt to compensate for a possible lack of wattage to feed all cards on the mother board. If it does work, well I guess there are good chances of having found the culprit.
I will update with results of these tests.
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I've been having this reading (and sometimes higher, during intensive use) for years and I've never had any problem.
I don't understand. That hardly means the temperature is fine. The Maximum operating temperature for that processor is 65 degrees. The fact that "you've been running that way for years without problems" is not a logical way of eliminating it as a possibility, if anything, you've pretty much confirmed this is the problem. Thermal Damage, to my understanding, is cumulative.
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Thermal Damage, to my understanding, is cumulative.
Cooked cpu and nearby motherboard components is my guess.
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...I have searched for BIOS beep codes to find the meaning of that one long neverending beep, to no avail. I use a Phoenix BIOS. They have a huge range of detailed beep codes, but nothing is said about a single continuous beep. For most other BIOS though, these mean a power supply problem.
It's not a BIOS beep code, but likely an Overtemp alarm.
My 5100's H/W Monitor is disabled in the BIOS; I assume the 4100 is the same. My BIOS is Phoenix-Award; yours is likely the same.
Since you said: "...the CPU's fan is doing a weird crackling sound but it is running...". I suspect the fan bearings are shot, get a new fan.
Remove CPU fan, clean off old thermal paste, reapply new thermal paste, install new CPU fan.
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So I applied new thermal paste a few minutes ago. Works fine so far, the temperature dropped greatly and the fan stopped running at full speed non-stop. The crackling in the fan stopped, I assume it was just set loose.
I am writing this from said faulty computer while monitoring the system, stable so far. Also, somehow this time HWmonitor shows more than one value, so I am posting a screencap of it now.
Screencap'd right after booting, before doing anything else. VTIN and SYSTIN values seem bogus, everything else seems accurate.
[recovering disk space - old attachment deleted by admin]
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So I applied new thermal paste a few minutes ago. Works fine so far, the temperature dropped greatly and the fan stopped running at full speed non-stop. The crackling in the fan stopped, I assume it was just set loose.
I am writing this from said faulty computer while monitoring the system, stable so far. Also, somehow this time HWmonitor shows more than one value, so I am posting a screencap of it now.
Screencap'd right after booting, before doing anything else. VTIN and SYSTIN values seem bogus, everything else seems accurate.
Loose fan will allow temps to get high. Run it for a while & see what happens, but I think you've solved it. 65C is a good number.
Every time he releases a new version, he messes up the code for the older sensors. I send him bug reports from time to time. Look at the +12V reading, we know it's wrong!
Winbond W83627THF is supported: http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor/supported-hardwares.html
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Replace the CPU fan...it's probably been pretty well beat if you've been running it overheated for this long...
I'll bet the temps go down another 3 4 C
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Unfortunately, I'm out of money for a new fan, so this one will have to do.
Anyway, I've managed to keep the computer running for several hours without any issue, the temp staying just below 60C most of the time, with highest reached of 70C and lowest of 54C. Made it run CPU-intensive programs while monitoring temps and fans. Would stay around 63-65C, no lag whatsoever, fan barely spinning once in a while when hitting 65C to cool down. Started doing my own business as usual, and again no problem detected, no over-heating, no lag, nothing.
However after a few hours of this, while playing a MIDI file, the freeze and the long continuous beep sound came, while CPU at 58C. Upon restarting, became laggy and unresponsive before Windows finished loading. I was able to bring up the task manager to check on processes. I noticed System Idle Process having a value of 00, implying some other processes would be eating up all ressources. However, all other processes also had a value of 00.
UPDATE: I just found a new defective hardware that could be partly or wholly causing the problem. My graphic card has 4 blown-up capacitors, 2 of which are leaking...
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I'd still get a new CPU fan...
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...UPDATE: I just found a new defective hardware that could be partly or wholly causing the problem. My graphic card has 4 blown-up capacitors, 2 of which are leaking...
You can get a better graphics card than what came with it for $50.
EVGA 01G-P3-N959-TR GeForce 9500 GT (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130395&cm_re=graphics_card_pci_express-_-14-130-395-_-Product)
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...Also, somehow this time HWmonitor shows more than one value, so I am posting a screencap of it now.
...VTIN and SYSTIN values seem bogus, everything else seems accurate.
Mine reads just like yours (same sensor).
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You can get a better graphics card than what came with it for $50.
EVGA 01G-P3-N959-TR GeForce 9500 GT (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130395&cm_re=graphics_card_pci_express-_-14-130-395-_-Product)
Ouch... Even though it's pretty cheap for a graphic card, it's still hardcore on my wallet.
I was thinking of trying to replace the dead capacitors first, which would be a cheaper option, and if it fails, then consider a new card.
Just to make sure, could a defective graphic card be the cause of the recurring freeze/lag and beeping?
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1. Ouch... Even though it's pretty cheap for a graphic card, it's still hardcore on my wallet.
2. I was thinking of trying to replace the dead capacitors first, which would be a cheaper option, and if it fails, then consider a new card.
3. Just to make sure, could a defective graphic card be the cause of the recurring freeze/lag and beeping?
1. OK.
2. Only if you have the expertise & the equipment & can actually read the values on the caps.
3. Yes.
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Ouch... Even though it's pretty cheap for a graphic card, it's still hardcore on my wallet...
$25 after rebate of $30, free shipping
EVGA 015-P3-N969-LR GeForce 9600 GSO (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130543&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL083110&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL083110-_-EMC-083110-Index-_-DesktopGraphicsVideoCards-_-14130543-L05B)
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Sorry for taking this long to answer. Anyway I got the money to buy a new graphic card and got myself a Radeon HD5450.
I must say most problems are gone now. No more random lag, all programs run as expected, computer starts up and shuts down normally without crashing (and the power button finally started working again for manual shut down), no more beeping,... well every major bug seems to have been taken care of.
However.
It's now very unstable. It will freeze completely randomly after a certain time (from a few minutes, to several hours or more), without any other symptoms whatsoever. It just locks up for no apparent reason, without any previous lag, without any beeping, or anything else. I noticed it tends to happen more often when the system is idle for a certain while, though it did also crash during a virus scan.
I've scanned and removed any malware using MalwareBytes, updated all drivers, ran Memtest for a good long while, and ran chkdsk for a second time. No problems detected there.
Btw, I want to thank everyone who spent time to help me on here, it's very much appreciated =)
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Sorry for taking this long to answer. Anyway I got the money to buy a new graphic card and got myself a Radeon HD5450.
I must say most problems are gone now. No more random lag, all programs run as expected, computer starts up and shuts down normally without crashing (and the power button finally started working again for manual shut down), no more beeping,... well every major bug seems to have been taken care of.
However.
It's now very unstable. It will freeze completely randomly after a certain time (from a few minutes, to several hours or more), without any other symptoms whatsoever. It just locks up for no apparent reason, without any previous lag, without any beeping, or anything else. I noticed it tends to happen more often when the system is idle for a certain while, though it did also crash during a virus scan.
I've scanned and removed any malware using MalwareBytes, updated all drivers, ran Memtest for a good long while, and ran chkdsk for a second time. No problems detected there.
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I'd still get a new CPU fan...
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Forget about the unstable-ness, I found out what was causing it (some corrupted Windows system files). However now my computer stopped detecting my soundcard all of a sudden. The soundcard is almost brand new so I doubt it has given up.
How it happened:
Was listening to music when I decided to plug the headphones into the speakers' headphones plug. Noticed sound coming only from the left channel. Upon checking the 3 surround audio cables connected to the soundcard, I noticed one of them was pulled out, so I plugged it back in, which caused a loud pulsating noise in the subwoofer. I unplugged the cable, turned off the speakers, then plugged it back. Noticed the comp had frozen for unknown reasons. However the sound was coming out nicely. (I tested by playing on my synth, which is connected to the stereo input of said card)
Upon rebooting though, it did not detect the card anymore. While trying to reinstall/update drivers, I kept getting a "Setup did not find any product related to this driver, please make sure the product is connected"
I tried booting without the card (which worked fine) then booting again with card in (which did not work fine). Not only was the card still not being detected, but I didn't get anything on screen after the windows loading boot screen (though the computer seemed to be working fine. Keyboard was responsive, and I did log in to my session and open some programs blindly, and each time I'd hear the computer respond accordingly (hard drive working fans starting or stopping as they usually would)). This black screen problem persisted even after rebooting without the soundcard afterward. I have no idea of what's going on this time...
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My Medion has onboard sound (CMedia); is yours onboard (integrated) or a separate card, or both?
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My Medion has onboard sound (CMedia); is yours onboard (integrated) or a separate card, or both?
There is a CMedia one on-board, but the one causing the said troubles now is a separate one I bought about a year and a half ago to improve sound quality (an Audigy4). So yeah, both for now, onboard (deactivated) and separate.
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Could be a problem with the Audigy card. Remove it, go to BIOS, enable onboard sound and see if all problems disappear. If you previously installed the CMedia drivers, they are still there. You do know that the Medion "Composer" was designed to produce high quality sound? I think it came with software for music composition. With good speakers/sub-woofer, it's really quite good.
Every time you remove and reinstall the Audigy, BIOS may or may not autodetect, and may or may not enable or disable onboard. You have to check it every time you make a hardware change.
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Could be a problem with the Audigy card. Remove it, go to BIOS, enable onboard sound and see if all problems disappear. If you previously installed the CMedia drivers, they are still there. You do know that the Medion "Composer" was designed to produce high quality sound? I think it came with software for music composition. With good speakers/sub-woofer, it's really quite good.
Every time you remove and reinstall the Audigy, BIOS may or may not autodetect, and may or may not enable or disable onboard. You have to check it every time you make a hardware change.
The on-board soundcard was only deactivated under windows, so in the bios, it is indeed still active. I checked just now. I still have the black-screen problem. And no, the on-board sound card does not produce a sound of a quality good enough for proffessionnal music recording/composing. As with all other on-board soundcards, it gives off a very unclean sound, and the stereo input is too sensitive and does not pick up lower notes correctly. I've heard a HUGE improvement in sound quality just by changing for a simple audigy card.
Though I dont mind having to use the on-board card now if that's the only way I can get everything to work properly, even if that gets to screw up music making. For now I just want the screen to display correctly...
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Update: Nevermind, I found what was causing the problem. :)
It was a driver conflict between the new graphic card and the external soundcard. Booting into safe mode and removing all ATI drivers of the graphic card solved the problem. The external sound card still isn't reconised, but that's no big deal. I'm using the on-board one now, although it greatly cut off on sound quality. But it's okay, it's not like that computer can really support music-making software anymore anyway.
Still, again, a huge "thank you" to everyone who helped. I don't think I'd have had the patience to go through repairing this computer without your support. In the end, it cost me much more time and headache than money, so I guess it was worth it ;)
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Update: Nevermind, I found what was causing the problem. :)
It was a driver conflict between the new graphic card and the external soundcard.
...The external sound card still isn't reconised, but that's no big deal. I'm using the on-board one now...
Try the sound card in a different slot. It sometimes resolves the conflicts.
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Try the sound card in a different slot. It sometimes resolves the conflicts.
Yeah I tried, but without success. I'll eventually do a huge clean up of old software and drivers then work my way from there to make both the graphic card and soundcard work together.
Also, I still do have some booting issues from time to time, but that seems to be caused by connections to the pci-e port. When that happens, just removing and reinserting the card solves all issues. Other than that, it works like brand new. No slowing down, no locking up, no glitch, no beeping alarm, no overheating. It is as stable as before, and a lot faster than it used to be (for example, just logging onto windows would require a good 15-20 minutes to load, now it barely takes 2 minutes at most.)
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The locking up problem along with the long beep came back today...
Lowered CPU temp to 50-55C at most.
Power supply tested and supplying enough power.
Ram went through a few hours of memtest without any problem.
Graphic card brand new and installed properly.
Soundcard removed.
Hard drive tested, file system checked and fixed using chkdsk /f
What's been left untouched:
Motherboard
CPU
External network card (never been used)
I have no clue of what's going on this time. Could very well be related with the hardware issues described in the earlier post (which oddly reminds me of the old NES and SNES with the game cartridges that gotta be removed, cleaned, and reinserted a few times before it actually works...), but I don't know what I can do about it.