Computer Hope
Hardware => Hardware => Topic started by: terabyte on May 27, 2013, 11:55:17 AM
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Hi,
i just have bought a Minipro TL866CS and received the programmer yesterday
my purpose for buying the programmer is to reflash my eeprom on a HP elitebook
8760w.
i have updated my bios with a wrong one, and im trying to reflash with the right one this time cause my laptop wont start up the led do get on but all i get is black screen i do hear the Fan is running but no screen just a black screen well its kind of a black screen i do think i see a back light on the screen.
the chip on my laptop is a winbond 25Q64BV.
i have a ll the tools to re flash the chip. the only problem i have is i want to use the test clip to reflash the chip without desoldering the chip from the motherboard.
i also have the right adapter for the minipro TL866CS.
but every time i try to find the chip with the software its showing a error with
ic is in reverse or damage message in software.
i know the chip is still ok because i had desolder the chip before and had use it on a different programmer.
anyway hope someone could help me out how to attach all the test clip cables.
if someone could tell me step by step what to do that would be great.
i will put the links of the manual of the winbond chip and the programmer i have bought below the post.
the one thing i am concerned about are the colors of the test clip attached to the adapter and the winbond chip.
here is how i have i attached i dont know if this is right or wrong: I'm a newbie with this kind of work.
1-Red
2-Brown
3-Black
4-White
5-Orange
6-Yellow
7-Green
8-Blue
the programmer with the testclip and the adapter
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321085105494
the winbond 25Q64BV eeprom manual:
http://www.winbond-usa.com/NR/rdonlyres/591A37FF-007C-4E99-956C-F7EE4A6D9A8F/0/W25Q64BV.pdf
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i know the chip is still ok because i had desolder the chip before and had use it on a different programmer.
At most, you know it was OK before you soldered it back in the motherboard. Heat damages semiconductor devices.
the one thing i am concerned about are the colors of the test clip attached to the adapter and the winbond chip.
here is how i have i attached i dont know if this is right or wrong: I'm a newbie with this kind of work.
1-Red
2-Brown
3-Black
4-White
5-Orange
6-Yellow
7-Green
8-Blue
Did you have a special reason for using these? They differ from the EIA standard which is
1 - Brown
2 - Red
3 - Orange
4 - Yellow
5 - Green
6 - Blue
7 - Violet
8 - Grey ("Gray" in America)
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thanks for the fast reply
i have to say that the test clip has only the colors i did named in my earlier post
this is a picture i have taken to show you the test clip with colors.
i dont know if they have attachted the wrong colors tothe test clip or i am wrong.
please take a look ate the picture:
http://postimg.org/image/z10mzjzoz/
http://postimg.org/image/66hrmxx9d/
my question is can you maybe provide me some links and manuals how to use this clips the proper way.
i searched on google didint found anything about these test clip information how to use them.
im sorry about my first post about the colors of the test clip i have made a mistake with the yellow and orange .
1-Red
2-Brown
3-Black
4-White
5-Yellow
6-Orange
7-Green
8-Blue
but still the test clip isnt working with software after the changes with the colors yellow and orange.
after these changes my software is giving me a different error message with:
ID Error! Check the chip correctly? whether contact good pin?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Check ID Error!
Checked ID is : 0x FF FF FF
Wish to continue programming, please cancel[Check Device ID] option!
i hope there is a explanation for this error
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I'd order a new chip...
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i l ready have ordered 2 new chips they are on their way. but i really would like to work with this one it would be good learning experience for me.
so im open for all new solution or suggestions.
I hope there is someone that could tell me if the colors are attached correctly if not whats the right way of the colors.
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This is for reference. It is about related devices being sold on eBay from China.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLG03f_ua5g
Other videos give some more detail about these new economy programmers. Cheap enough for the hobbyist.
Some hare "in circuit serial mode" adapters. The in circuit mode lets you progam a device without removing the EPORM from the motherboard.
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In instances where there is no programming header, a SOIC Test clip can sometimes be used in conjunction with a suitable programmer to reprogram the BIOS ...
Do you have a link?
Here is all I cold find.
[Pyra] was looking for a way to reprogram some ATtiny13 microcontrollers in a SOIC package. He’s re-engineering some consumer electronics so adding an ISP header to the design isn’t an option. He had been soldering wires to the legs of every chip but this is quite tedious. What he needs is an adapter that can make physical contact with the legs just long enough to program new firmware. After looking around he discovered that a PCI socket can be used as a progamming clip (translated). It shares the same pitch as a standard SOIC package but is not wide enough for the chip. He cut out 4 rows of the socket and the section of motherboard it was soldered to. Then he made a cut down the middle of the plastic and bent the two sections apart. The image above illustrates this, but not shown are the eight wires that he later added to connect to the device.
We wonder if this can be adapted to program SOIC parts without removing them from a circuit board. That would be a handy tool for finishing up the LED lightbulb hack.
http://hackaday.com/2010/11/18/build-your-own-soic-progamming-clip/
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Is the OP still out there?
After doing some research, I never found a good link about how to don in circuit programming on a popular motherboard. All I found were things about automotive, TV sets and other consumer devices other than Desktop PCs.
Apparently for a Desktop PC you have to remove the device to program it.
Has anybody here ever programmed a SOIC flash with a in circuit clip?
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Thanks for the replies geek-9pm
I have to say your roght about the lack of information on how to prpgram a pc chop woth only a test clip.
Im still open any solution or help that i can get with this. If there was only a how to step by step page how to this my problems would be solved. But because there is no information in stuck right now.
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Did you ever ask HP how much it would cost to repair the HP Elitebook 8760w?
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Computer_Commando,
I respect your experience. That fact that you have not said anything unto now wooed suggest the repair shops do not of thing on common motherboards.. Is that right?
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i have contacted hp and i have to say its one of the terrible services out there.
they did give me a solution that was sending the unit back to them which will cost me like 500 - 600 dollars im out of warranty so i have to pay the shipping cost to. I already paid like 2k for this laptop which im overall happy with beside the name HP and their service.
so HP is no solution for me i rather search weeks or months for a cheaper solution.
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terabyte: just wanted to clear that up. HP was good to me when I need warranty work on my ProBook. Your Elitebook is a premium model, hence the premium price for service. If you paid $2k for it, it's probably worth $500 to fix it. How did you flash the wrong BIOS? I've flashed mine 5-6 times with updates.
http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/14000_div/14000_div.pdf
Geek: shops will perform minor surgery on a motherboard, i.e. power connector, but de-soldering & resoldering a SOIC surface mount chip is usually beyond their capability.
I would suspect that the BIOS is in-circuit programmable since most flash devices have been so for many years. That's actually what you are doing when you flash the BIOS on a working machine.
Your programming kit needs something like this: http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4310
No de-soldering or re-soldering necessary.
More info on in-cricuit programming of the Winbond 25Q64BV
http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=4157
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Thanks. Now it stats to make sense.
...There are many factors affect the ISP programming. The main issue is the poor signal quality since many circuit is not designed for the in-circuit-programming originally. The poor signal quality will cause the in-circuit-programming unstable and fail. The adapter is deigned for enhancing the signal quality when doing in-circuit-programming. It has a signal driver chip to make in-circuit-programming signal in better quality and programming stable. So that to increase the programming success rate. ...
from second link..
So that means you haven to have the exact proven adapter to do it right.
The last link is about somebody who also also had trouble doing ISP.
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Personally if replacing a BIOS Flash ROM from the original, I would have added a socket in place of where the original chip was replaced with the new chip if it wasnt already socketed. This way if something goes bad with the flash, the chip can be popped out in less than 2 seconds and a new chip pressed into a tight fit in the socket as well as if you have a poor solder joint it can be easily reflowed by removing the chip and touching up the exposed socket leg. In addition to this there are no troubles with overheating the chip since no heat is needed to lock it into the socket.
Removal of the original BIOS Flash Chip if its a J-lead as most are, can be difficult without the proper tools. The proper tool is a suction cup tool designed for surface mount IC placement/removal and a hot air gun that is designed for surface mount soldering, and a tube of solder paste which is small lead particles mixed with flux. Higher end production facilities have tools that are more advanced than these basic tools and are far better for adding and removing surface mount IC's without damaging the PCB in this case the motherboard.
The pads that the J-leads connect to on surface mount chips are very fragile as well. If you apply too much heat or heat them for too long they will seperate /delaminate with the PCB surface and its called a lifted pad. Sometimes you get lucky and the pad that lifted is an unused pin, however if its needed and no longer connected then you will not have a happy PCB come time to turn it on or get it to boot in this case, unless you know its intended path and add a new connection/trace via 30 ga wire to the affected leg etc.
I have seen some people attempt to remove the surface mount IC's to replace with new chips without the proper tools and they trash the circuits of the PCB or cook neighboring thru hole components which are normally added later in the manufacturing process and can be located very close to the location of surface mount components causing problems with removing 1 part and not damaging others due to no way to control the hot air that is used to get the solder to flow.
But of all, the most common problem I have seen in the 25 years of working actively on electronics is components installed wrong, that is the chip is in backwards or 90, 180, or 270 degrees off from its proper placement to of pin1 that causes issues.
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After thinking this over and musing about the negative reports I found, trying to program the chip yourself with an external programmer is not a good idea. The motherboard makers recommend you use software only, not hardware, to program motherboard chips outside of the factory. In the factory they have their own designs and methods for programming the BIOS during production.
I did find one site where somebody it, but is was very specific to just none motherboard. There may not be a generic external hardware tool that can program any motherboard.
As a comparison, it is easier to find a replacement remote control for your old Emerson TV set.
I once built a real simple FDD controller that required the IC to be programed with complements instead of straight byte code. I did not document it, there was no reason to ever change the code. But it made some of my co-workers very annoyed. So I could imagine the motherboard maker might have done something very odd with a custom hardware programmer that was not obvious to everybody.
Example: The chip may not work unless it is first programmed the first time by out of board hardware. After that it can be programmed by software while in the motherboard.
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Example: The chip may not work unless it is first programmed the first time by out of board hardware. After that it can be programmed by software while in the motherboard.
Yes... This is true. The low level instructions to allow it to accept the software flash through Floppy, USB, or Operating System already live Flashing, are part of the initial hardware ROM flash. This is the reason why boards with a singular BIOS without a redundant ROM can become a brick when they receive a wrong or corrupt flash.