Computer Hope
Hardware => Hardware => Topic started by: Geek-9pm on August 20, 2013, 06:28:18 PM
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No, not from me. Nor do I represent them in anyway. More business people are finding they can not run legacy software on their new 64 bit Windows 7 and Windows8 computers. Simple solution is to buy a new computer that comes with an OS the is compatible with older DOS-based applications. These can be desktop towers of 4U rack mount units. Such new legacy computers can communicate with other compeers via a Ethernet NIC. (But might not be able to join a network due to security limitations.)
Google 'new computer with legacy OS' - without the quotes. I found at least one company that sells units about $350 with no monitor. For some that would be a good investment.
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They're not new PCs, they're ancient, at least if I'm looking in the same place as you. $330+ for a Celeron or P4 CPU and an old OS, no thanks.
Not sure about over there, but here if you look away from places advertising that they specialise in legacy OSes, you can pick up a refurb machine with similar specs and an OS, plus support (so, no difference to that place) for about £40-50 at most.
Those prices are just sky high, it's a nice enough idea but they're way out of line on pricing - especially when running a virtual machine with the legacy OS on a new PC would be much cheaper and potentially better.
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Just... wow! That is just insane! You could find one a machine with that spec for like £20 on eBay or even for free at the dump, anyone spending that on ancient hardware really needs to look at what they are doing!
I mean, for pretty much all legacy software, you can use a virtual machine and even if this software requires fancy hardware so won't work in a VM - Pick up a cheap second hand/refurb PC and use that! Sure you won't get a warranty on a second hand machine, but if the machine cost $35 you could afford it to fail and need replaced 10 times before you paid the same as one of those new ones!
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Right!
As I said, I don not endorse the company. I put it here for the business man who just can not see himself ever using something old. Yet he wants to use old proven software. Some equipment made twenty years ago is still a valid solution to some piratical problems. But new is desirable, when available.
Here is one of the sources I found.
http://www.nixsys.com/products/legacy-operating-system-workstation-and-servers.html
2U 3U and 4U rackmount chassis, other formats are available upon request. Many people resist investing in older operating system computer for their companies because they think that the system are not available and the ones that are available are too expensive. But here at NIXSYS we build brand new industry standard components to custom-built Legacy O/SComputer at very low price.
Anything in a rackmount chassis under $500 is a fair deal.
IMHO, a business that depends on a legacy program as a large part of its operation should buy a computer that runs the older hardware and software directly without a VM or emulator. It is a modest investment.
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That's what I found, but certainly a complete rip-off!
On eBay right now you can pick up a P4 based desktop running XP for under £20!
Anything in a rackmount chassis under $500 is a fair deal.
Not really, we just bought a pair of servers at work for £300 each (Refurb) and they have a pair of Quad Core CPUs and 24gb RAM each! There are rackmount P4 servers on eBay for £45!
Sure a business who relies on legacy stuff could get a legacy system if needed (Some stuff will only work on the bare hardware and not in VMs) but buying one of those "new" ones for $350 is ludicrous when there are ones the same spec for under 1/10th of that!
In fact, when you actually go to the basic machine on that page, it's $505.00 for: Celeron 2.4GHz, 256mb RAM, 80gb HDD, DVD-RW, Floppy. AND it doesn't even include an OS!
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You made your point. Hope the people that need this see this. If I said it, it does not have much weight,. I an not active in IT anymore. So thank you for coming back with an argument. Thee are out business managers an need to know this.
BTW: Anybody that wants a little work could make a business reselling refurbish PCs on a contract. He would make a legal contract to deliver a standard of quality and reliability to legacy computers owners with a 24 hour tech support. For a modest fee.
Think about that, years ago I did something like that. Some local governments can not spend a dime on new equipment, but they can lease equipment.
Again, thanks for our input.
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How are you gonna sell aPC on a contract basis that's net worth is 40 bucks and make any money ? ?
Not trying to discourage you but the whole concept is absurd.
BTW i have clients that need to run legacy apps...what they do is not buy ancient equipment to do so ...rather they pay people like myself to setup whatever PC's they have to enable them to run Legacy apps...
Just sayin.
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How are you gonna sell aPC on a contract basis that's net worth is 40 bucks and make any money ? ?
Not trying to discourage you but the whole concept is absurd.
BTW i have clients that need to run legacy apps...what they do is not buy ancient equipment to do so ...rather they pay people like myself to setup whatever PC's they have to enable them to run Legacy apps...
Just sayin.
Right. And they give you a bottle of Chivas Regal Royal Salute? If so, ou are ..ahh.. doing OK. Twenty minutes of talk and get a $100 Scotch.
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Right. And they give you a bottle of Chivas Regal Royal Salute? If so, ou are ..ahh.. doing OK. Twenty minutes of talk and get a $100 Scotch.
HuH ? ?
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OK, Patio. I was making a joke.
In effect, you are making yourself a job my helping clients with older computers they buy. Others would go a step further and locate the computers for them and take some of the risk for a fee.
Of cause, telling somebody a PC is new when it is not is a very bad practice.
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Please re-read my Post...that is NOT what i stated...
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How are you gonna sell aPC on a contract basis that's net worth is 40 bucks and make any money ? ?
Not trying to discourage you but the whole concept is absurd.
That are people who will make contracts that seem absurd. And make it work for them.
BTW i have clients that need to run legacy apps...what they do is not buy ancient equipment to do so ...rather they pay people like myself to setup whatever PC's they have to enable them to run Legacy apps...
Just sayin.
OK. That's good.
The web site I used as reference says the make legacy computers. They did not say the sold rebuilt computers. In some places new has to mean new.
I understood it to mean they really design and fabricate new components for legacy software. That is not the same as recycling old parts. Nothing wring with recycling, but some companies have a policy that only new hardware can be used. So then, there is a need, maybe small, for new PCs that run old software.
The premise is this: Hardware wears out, Software does not. So if new equipment is available, the software will go on into the net century. Hypothetically speaking of course. And there will be jobs for those who understand it.
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And here's what i meant:
I have Clients that have new PC's but need to run legacy software...therefore i develop solutions for them...
I do NOT sell used PC's advertised as new nor do i sell anyone a bill of goods as you implied...and i was a bit ticked at that inference...
I think you need to read the original article over...then re-visit what i stated and stop throwing unsubstiantated references around like they were candy to children...
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Please accept my apologies. I was careless. :-[
Helping people with legacy problems is a good thing. You are doing a valuable service to others, which is commendable.
Let me ask you this: Have you been able to use Microsoft Thin Windows for any legacy problem? Have you tried it? Just curious.
This was two years ago. Have not hared much about it.
Windows Thin PC Extends Value of Legacy Hardware
(http://www.pcworld.com/article/227105/windows_thin_pc_extends_value_of_legacy_hardware.html)
:)
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The web site I used as reference says the make legacy computers. They did not say the sold rebuilt computers. In some places new has to mean new.
How can they be new when the CPUs they use went out of production almost a decade ago? DDR RAM also hasn't been produced for a long time and nor have the chipsets on those boards. They're refurbished at best, they can call it what they like but there is no possible way the PCs are new unless they hoarded a store of those parts when they wee brand new only to sell them at a loss much later on, which makes absolutely no sense.
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How can they be new when the CPUs they use went out of production almost a decade ago? DDR RAM also hasn't been produced for a long time and nor have the chipsets on those boards. They're refurbished at best, they can call it what they like but there is no possible way the PCs are new unless they hoarded a store of those parts when they wee brand new only to sell them at a loss much later on, which makes absolutely no sense.
It is just amazing what is lying around. The phrase is "New Old Stock" (NOS). Ebay has plenty of NOS Pentium 4s and DDR2 RAM; CPUs run from $4.99 up; DDR2 modules and kits for not much (e.g. 2GB DDR2 PC4200 533MHz PC2-4200 DESKTOP 2X 1GB DUAL KIT $14.91). Motherboards likewise. There are companies who specialise in hard to find and rare stuff. As well as people who want them to build systems there are people who collect "new old" CPUs for their rarity value, as if they were stamps or paintings.
One of my hobbies is audio and hi-fi; I am gratified as a European to see that these days American builders of vacuum tube amplifiers are as familiar as I am with the European tube type naming system, and many prefer NOS British and Dutch made EL34 tubes over equivalent RETMA (US) tubes with the 6CA7 designation.
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I stand corrected in that case. I've seen some items advertised as NOS, but didn't realise there were enough, say NOS Pentium 4s out there to build a business on.
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I stand corrected in that case. I've seen some items advertised as NOS, but didn't realise there were enough, say NOS Pentium 4s out there to build a business on.
I don't think there are millions of them out there, but there is evidently a considerable amount of unsold inventory. Also I wouldn't totally rule out used items. As far as I know CPUs don't wear out, although the amount of time the silicon has spent over a certain temperature can shorten its life. I saw a 52 pound weight box of Pentium 4 CPUs on sale for $500.
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I wouldn't rule out used items either, probably 90% of the PC gear I buy is used.
I was just surprised that there were enough NOS components to sell those PCs as new, it would be a lot more believable if theyw ere refurbished due to the amount of RAM, motherboards, HDDs, DVD drives etc needed.
As for CPUs wearing out, I've never seen one wear olut in normal usage to be honest - I've only ever seen them degrade and fail from out of spec voltage or temperature, or die as a result of the PSU or board giving up in some way.
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This is not a endorsement. Here is a link to pictures of 486 motherboards for sale. There must be a bunch out there. Just look around.
http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale/wholesale-486-motherboard.html
I think the big issue is the presence of a older PCI bus and the serial ports and at least one parallel printer port. Before the widespread use of USB and plug and play, those ports where the interface to printers, plotters, label makers and even bar code readers. And other things. Like a burglar alarms.
Contrary to what you might think, , the USB standard does not fully replace these old hardware things. Personally, I have spent hours doing research on USB adopters and cam to a stone wall.
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One more time. ;D
This thread is so old almost forgot but I placed it here years ago. But just for the record, I continue to buy and use refurbished PCs. The best source I have found is eBay. Yes, you can get ripped off on eBay. But that is true elsewhere. You have to be knowledgeable and pay attention all the details in an advertisement you see on eBay or anyplace else. Building a brand-new PC to legacy standards is not easy. Some parts are no longer available. Still, legacy PC is the way to go for some intense software applications that require the support of an older operating system. The older operating systems that are person might choose could be: Windows 98 SE, Windows 2000 and Windows XP professional. Some other versions of XP may be suitable for your application, so don't refuse Windows XP home edition just because it lacks some of the features found in the professional edition. However, many would discourage the use of Windows XP media Center version.
Now about legacy PCs. Some users want and need portable computers that are reliable and can be used with older software. I think my favorite would be the Compaq ct Armada series. They had very good audio, reasonable battery life and a very nice display. And of course, a nice keyboard. These old laptops could be used with a serial port which make them rather unusual. Also it had a docking port that could be used for external connections. It had a standard serial port which is useful with some older point of sale software systems where a serial port is needed to control a cash register.
Of course, one can run Windows XP as a virtual machine inside of Windows 8. But that requires the use of a fast computer that will work well as a virtual machine. But in some cases programs that have direct access to the hardware have some difficulty in a virtual machine. So in that case it's back to using legacy hardware with legacy software system.
The cost of building a legacy system from brand-new components is very, very expensive. The components are either not available or very overpriced.
In my opinion anybody who wants to make a business using legacy hardware should be prepared to make a significant investment in computers that are found at to yard sales or in pawnshops or wherever people try to get rid of stuff they no longer need. But there is a big problem. The less you have the expertise, getting an old computer to work again maybe Mort time-consuming than what you may have thought. That is why I would recommend buying a certified refurbished computer from someone who sells on eBay rather than trying to do-it-yourself. I've done it both ways on a small scale. I have taken older computers people had and got it working again and I have bots computers off of eBay that were not working condition. At the end of the day, my point of view is that it is better to let somebody else do the recertification and installation of the legacy software and offer you a warranty or guarantee. There are some companies that specialize in legacy hardware and will offer you a one-year warranty. Now think about that. In some cases even new equipment is not guaranteed for one year. Check it out.
I'm not trying to pump this post, but I don't like it when someone makes a broad statement about eBay without offering a credible alternative. EBay offers a large body of vendors you can choose from. Trying to locate a reliable vendor on your own is a lot of work. So my advice is choose your vendors off of eBay rather than otherwise. On eBay they have to meet up to a set of standards that are set out by eBay and are these people lose their reputation the lose their place on eBay. With vendors that have their own website, it is hard to know what the true history is of their company. They could post anything they want on their own website.
This is the end of my rant. I still think that you want legacy hardware you should shop eBay first.