Computer Hope
Hardware => Hardware => Topic started by: washingmachine on July 03, 2011, 11:15:45 AM
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Hello everyone. I have a 500 gb hd i want to install in my pc but am unsure if I can just add it along woth the other 2 or if I have to get rid of one to add this one. If I do need to swap one out for the 500gb I am also not clean on how I save all the data or transfer the data. I am still a newb with pc's so thank you for the advice.
pc specs
Intel core 2 duo e6300, ddr2 2048 mbytes, GeForce 8400gs, not sure what else I need to add here so just let me know and I will try and find it.
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It depends on whether or no there is an open slot. Check to see if your system supports three hd's.
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pc specs
Intel core 2 duo e6300, ddr2 2048 mbytes, GeForce 8400gs, not sure what else I need to add here so just let me know and I will try and find it.
Not enough info. Provide make & model number of computer.
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pc specs
Intel core 2 duo e6300, ddr2 2048 mbytes, GeForce 8400gs, not sure what else I need to add here so just let me know and I will try and find it.
What motherboard?
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With Cupid cpu-z under mainboard info, Intel model DG965WH, Chipset p965/g965, southbridge is 82801HH, and Lpcio is NS PC8374L. Hard drive I want to add is a western digital 500 gb sata 300. Hope this is the right info. Thank you again for the help.
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The documentation I found for that board on Intel Support is HERE (http://downloadmirror.intel.com/15052/eng/DG965WH_ProductGuide03_English.pdf)
Enhanced IDE Interface
The desktop board’s IDE interface handles the exchange of information between the
processor and peripheral devices such as hard disk drives and CD-ROM drives. The
interface supports:
• Up to two IDE devices (such as hard drives)
• ATAPI-style devices (such as CD-ROM drives)
• Older PIO Mode devices
• Ultra DMA-33 and ATA-66/100 protocols
Serial ATA
The desktop board supports six Serial ATA channels (3.0 Gb/s) via ICH8, connecting
one device per channel.
From what I understand from this info, I see no reason why you cannot use 3 hard drives as long as one or more are SATA interface ( It shows support for 2 IDE devices only) I'm no expert. Just trying to help. I'd wait for one of the more experienced members to confirm this before making a HD purchased
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Coolness, thank you Lectrocrew. Sorry everyone for the long delays in responses, work has been kicking the crap outta me. I guess my next question is how do I add the hard drive. I believe I can physically install it to the cpu but what worries me is what do I do after that, program wise?
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There are many sites on the web that will assist you with your HDD installation. One of your 1st decisions will need to be as to whether you will install a SATA HDD or an IDE drive. Lectrocrew has pointed you in a direction of a clue towards that decision "( It shows support for 2 IDE devices only) ". Therefore if the "new" drive becomes an addition you will need to determine if you have any IDE cable connections remaining now (i doubt it). I am including a link to a site i looked at that seems to do a fairly good job of explaining the process for both SATA and IDE drives. If you run into trouble or confusion you need but ask here and we will help you. For your consideration an external USB connectable HDD may also serve your need. They are almost as cheap these days as an internal. They offer both advantages and some disadvantages over internal. In my opinion the advantages far outweigh any disadvantages. truenorth
http://www.waterwheel.com/Guides/how_to/magnetic_drives/magnetic_drives.htm
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I have a WD sata 500gb i want to install. If I cannot add a 3rd hd to my cpu how do i transfer the info to the new hd. Sorry about all the newbie questions, I get confussed easily with this stuff.
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I guess i would ask what is your fondest wish-- to install a 3rd HDD and have all the additional HDD capacity? Or to remove an existing HDD and "replace it" with your WD? Using the guide i sent you via my last post to help your with your choice (as it seems that you can install a 3rd). Open your case (ensuring ALL power is disconnected to the computer) and briefly touching the case to allow for electric discharge--see how many SATA connections on the motherboard are there and if any are still unoccupied. From there you will know what you can and cannot do. If your most fervent wish is to remove and replace an existing HDD (or that becomes your only option) then we can provide you with the things that you will need to do to transfer your data from the drive to be removed to the one to be installed. But let us hear from you 1st as to which way you are going to proceed based on your assessment of your ability to add a 3rd HDD (unless you are now desiring to remove that option).truenorth
P.S. You will undoubtedly have to purchase a SATA cable (very inexpensive) as usually the drives do not come with a cable.
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Looking at the mother board and where my other 2 hard drives are connected, there seems to be 2 more sata slots parallel to the 2 that are connected. Does this sound right or are those 2 slots something else? I would like most to add a 3rd hd for just storage space. The Western Digital came with a blue sata cord that fit into one of the sata ports. Can I use this to connect the hd to motherboard? Then I only have to attach the cable from the power source? But when I look at my old hd's that are connected they both have the same power source passing through it and I don't see a third connection. Thank you and I apologize for all the newbie questions.
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Well you can now proceed with your 3rd HDD installation. The physical side will be the easiest. The data transfer will also be relatively easy (particularly since the new and the drive from which the data is to be transfered are in the same computer). There will probably be a need to activate the motherboard SATA port via the BIOS to enable it's recognition. I am including another web link for the installation (as if it were a 2nd) but the process is identical. Please read it and as you progress ask any questions that you need to complete your task. It is all very easy and quite straight forward.
http://www.pcmech.com/article/installing-a-hard-drive-step-by-step/
P.S this article covers both IDE and SATA so pay attention as there are some differences. You do seem to have the proper SATA cable. What is the situation re a power cable?
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Sweets, thanks truenorth. The info you posted was very helpful. I just want to make sure I have this right... I can buy a Power cable Y-splitter to connect to one of the open cables that are not being used out of the power supply and this will power the hd? This along with following the step-by-step instructions on how to install a third hd and I should be good to go. Thanks again, when work slows down I look forward to having space on the cpu again.
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(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ywwv9RLKL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31cuT0yQ2tL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
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You are very welcome ==glad to have been of help. When you get to the data transfer stage if you have questions come back and we will help if you feel you need it. truenorth
P.S Computer Commando has provided you with excellent pictures for your power supply needs. The one with the one white lead and two black connectors is to allow you to have 2 SATA power outlets available from the one white lead plugged into your existing power supply available (unused) connectors in the computer. The other is the same except it only provides one SATA power connector. Either will do the job for you. If you foresee that you might someday want to add another SATA device the one with the 2 will keep that available for you.
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Then I only have to attach the cable from the power source? But when I look at my old hd's that are connected they both have the same power source passing through it and I don't see a third connection.
What make/model power supply do you have?
Looking at the mother board and where my other 2 hard drives are connected, there seems to be 2 more sata slots parallel to the 2 that are connected.
This suggest that the 2 hard drives you have now are SATA rather than IDE. If so, do the power cables for these existing hard drives use SATA outputs from the PSU or do they use 4 pin molex-to-SATA adapter cables as shown in the picture Computer_Commando posted?
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power supply- Rosewill RP500-2
The sata power outlets come straight from the Rosewill PSU, not the 4 pin molex-to-SATA adapter cables as shown in the picture Computer_Commando posted. I was hoping I could get a 4 pin molex-to-sata adapter to power my 3rd hard drive?
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pc specs
Intel core 2 duo e6300, ddr2 2048 mbytes, GeForce 8400gs...
This + 3 hard drives might push you over the limit for this psu.
(http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/17-182-016-16.jpg)
http://educations.newegg.com/tool/psucalc/index.html
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power supply- Rosewill RP500-2
The sata power outlets come straight from the Rosewill PSU, not the 4 pin molex-to-SATA adapter cables as shown in the picture Computer_Commando posted. I was hoping I could get a 4 pin molex-to-sata adapter to power my 3rd hard drive?
I see your situation now. Your PSU only has 2 SATA power outputs. Some PSU's have several (my Corsair TX850 has 8 SATA).
So yes you will need the adapter to run another SATA drive.
But as Computer_Commando pointed out, 3 hard drives may be pushing the limits on your PSU - I don't know, but you can do some math with a chart like this (http://www.pcpower.com/technology/power_usage/) based on all the components on your machine.
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based on all the components on your machine.
IMO, A good tool to use to find out exactly what hardware you have is Everest Free Edition which you can download here (http://majorgeeks.com/download4181.html).
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Thank you everyone for the information. I now see that I can connect the adapter power supply for the hd but it could be too much wattage for the rosewill to handle. So this leads me to 2 more questions before I put the 3rd hd in. 1) Can I disconnect the dvd/cd drive since I don't use it anymore? 2) If I decide to connect the 3rd hd because I am confident that my total wattage output will still be able to support my 3rd hd if I am wrong will it crash the whole system or will I need to just buy a larger power supply? (I feel it might be wiser to disconnect the dvd/cd player since I never use it.) I appreciate all the help and wise advise everyone.
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Can I disconnect the dvd/cd drive since I don't use it anymore?
Yes, although it would not draw any current until a dvd/cd is inserted into it anyway.
2) if I am wrong will it crash the whole system or will I need to just buy a larger power supply?
It will not crash but it may not boot.
I googled what system hardware I do know you have and I beleive you'll be ok running the 3 hd's and keep the dvd/cd also.
One thing I'd suggest is to make sure the PSU fan and cooling grid is cleaned well with compressed-air-in-a-can available at most electronics stores or Walmart.
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I would proceed with your installation to determine if there is a PSU problem before expending any additional money to upgrade the PSU. Then should you find that the required additional power is required i would suggest this as an alternative to a greater capacity PSU.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4143852&csid=_21
It will be far less costly and will allow you to continue using your current otherwise functioning PSU. It will also provide great versatility to your HDD options for using your current drive you want to use as well as others. It has it's own power supply unit. truenorth
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I would proceed with your installation to determine if there is a PSU problem before expending any additional money to upgrade the PSU. Then should you find that the required additional power is required i would suggest this as an alternative to a greater capacity PSU.
Agreed!
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4143852&csid=_21
Thanks Truenorth! I like that hardware, especially considering I bought this USB HD enclosure (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817145053)
last February for $29.99, and it has no card reader nor USB hub. I may get one of those Ultra ULT40326 Hard Drive Dock's for myself real soon. ;)
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Cool, thanks truenorth, it looks like an external internal hd. I'm putting the hd in now but if it doesn't work because of PSU sortage issues I will definitely look into the gizmo you posted.
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Sweets, all systems go. Thank you again everyone for your knowledge and help. (now its time to start filling up that hd)
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washingmachine, Well done,congrats,truenorth
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Sweets, all systems go.
Excellent! Glad you got it going washingmachine. :)
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http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4143852&csid=_21
I noticed that TigerDirect says this item is only available in stores. I presume they mean CompUSA stores, which now only exist a few cities in the U.S. So, how did you get it? Do you live near one of those stores?
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soybean, It was a recommendation NOT based on personal ownership. I became aware of this type of devise not long ago (posted a reference at the time on another CH forum) and did more research to view similar products and the one i posted in this thread came up and i thought it would suit the O/P in this instance if inadequate power was available for his HDD installation. I have shopped at a bricks and mortar Tiger Direct near Atalanta GA (but it is 1200 miles away--so certainly not close). Apparently there is one in Toronto Ontario Canada --but that one is still about 450 miles away. I would be very surprised that it is NOT available as an online purchase. Can you phone them to see? If not PM me and I'll do it for you (plus any other questions you may have about it).truenorth
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truenorth, thanks for the offer. However, I see that I can get it from Amazon.com if I decide to get it. It has a nice feature set and I'm quite tempted. Anyway, for everyone's info, this device can be purchased at http://www.amazon.com/USB-Esata-Dock-with-Reader/dp/B0021VBB18/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1310908281&sr=1-1
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Review Here... (http://www.amazon.com/USB-Esata-Dock-with-Reader/product-reviews/B0021VBB18/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1)
1 customer claims it's not actually eSATA...which means it wouldn't be hot swappable...and slower transfer speeds...
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Review Here... (http://www.amazon.com/USB-Esata-Dock-with-Reader/product-reviews/B0021VBB18/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1)
1 customer claims it's not actually eSATA...which means it wouldn't be hot swappable...and slower transfer speeds...
Hi patio. Yes, I noticed that erroneous labeling on amazon.com as being eSATA and I had read that review prior to my last post. So, yes, it connects to the computer via USB, so is slower than eSATA. However, it would still be hot swappable since it's USB, wouldn't it?
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I don't believe so...you would need to use "safely remove hardware"...
Only eSATA is hot swappable...
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Well, USB is hot-swappable (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_swapping). That's one of it's advantages over older technology. The "safely remove hardware" is not necessarily synonymous with "hot swappable". Or, in other words, having to use the "safely remove hardware" procedure does not mean a device is not hot swappable. Safely Remove Hardware is merely a way to preventing lost or damaged data due to removing a device while it's still in use; it's a way of assuring the user that the system is no longer using the device and, therefore, removal is safe. Absence of hot swapping capability means the computer needs to be shutdown when connecting or dis-connecting a device.
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I politely disagree...how many Posts over the years have we seen a USB external HDD being reported as RAW ? ?
This is from disconnecting it when it is still in a read/write stage...
That being said is why i don't buy into a USB HDD as being hot swappable.
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Hot-Swapable means that an item can be plugged into a system that is powered on. So any USB item is hot swappable.. the "safely remove items" feature does not mean that its not hot-swapable it only ensures that the item ie external HD is properly disconnected from your computer so it does not get corrutped during disconnection.. due to writing/reading if a HD is in the process of writing and you take power from it there is a chance the HD will get corrupted which is why you should always "safely remove"
EDIT: also the safely remove feature does not remove power from the item it just makes it so the item stops what its doing ie writing/reading...
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Hot-Swapable means that an item can be plugged into a system that is powered on. So any USB item is hot swappable.. the "safely remove items" feature does not mean that its not hot-swapable it only ensures that the item ie external HD is properly disconnected from your computer so it does not get corrutped during disconnection.. due to writing/reading if a HD is in the process of writing and you take power from it there is a chance the HD will get corrupted which is why you should always "safely remove"
EDIT: also the safely remove feature does not remove power from the item it just makes it so the item stops what its doing ie writing/reading...
Exactly.
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I politely disagree...how many Posts over the years have we seen a USB external HDD being reported as RAW ? ?
This is from disconnecting it when it is still in a read/write stage...
That being said is why i don't buy into a USB HDD as being hot swappable.
Other than my completly 100% true statement about the hot-swapable feature, remember people are flawed and forget that they have a $100 plus HD connected and maybe writing while they descide to disconnect it. Remember people if its connected to your computer from the outside "SAFELY REMOVE" no matter what it is.. good practice is worth the 10 seconds to safely disconnect something rather than $100+ to replace it.
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Hot swappable means it can be both plugged in with power and removed in the same state...
I'm not gonna get into an argument over this...look it up.
EDIT: also the safely remove feature does not remove power from the item it just makes it so the item stops what its doing ie writing/reading...
i Never stated anything to the contrary...
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not argueing at all i was just stateing a fact and yes your right.. but External HD's are hotswappable, this does not mean however that you can unplug them without ensuring that they are not writing when you do
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this does not mean however that you can unplug them without ensuring that they are not writing when you do
Then their not hot swappable.....see where i'm goin with this ? ?
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lol not really, they are hotswappable.. you just have to ensure they arnt writing at the time you disconnect them. "safely remove items" doesnt remove power from the item it just ensure that the items in a read/write state anymore so that it can be removed without being corrupted.
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Then their not hot swappable.....see where i'm goin with this ? ?
eSATA also requires you to use "safely remove hardware", in order to unplug it whenever you want. (well, not requires, but for good sense. sort of like running smartdrv /c to clear the write-cache on an old DOS machine before powering down)
USB is hot swappable in the very same way. The only reason mass storage devices require that stupid "safely remove" nonsense is because of write-caching, which, for removable drives, it utterly retarded. Once the light stops blinking on the device to indicate it isn't being dealt with, it should be in a bloody consistent state As far as I'm concerned, the way it is done now is broken. The fact that drives end up being corrupted is because of brain-dead driver implementations, in the name of speed, not because the protocol is not inherently hot-swappable. Additionally- the same problems will occur with a eSATA Drive; it is, in that regard, no more hot-swappable than USB is.
More importantly: the definition of hot-swappable just means the computer will "know" about the change without a reboot. Thus the term "hot". For example: PS/2 keyboards are not hot-swappable. But USB keyboards are. Same with Mice. IDE drives aren't "hot swappable"; you need to power down the computer. Same with add-on cards- you can't "hot swap" them.
USB however, you don't need to power down to swap devices around.
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id like to qote a wikipedia.. just to clerify what everyone is talking about here..
Hot swapping and hot plugging are terms used to describe the functions of replacing computer system components without shutting down the system. More specifically, hot swapping describes replacing components without significant interruption to the system, while hot plugging describes the addition of components that would expand the system without significant interruption to the operation of the system.[1] Once the appropriate software is installed on the computer, a user can plug and unplug the component without rebooting. A well-known example of this functionality is the Universal Serial Bus (USB) that allows users to add or remove peripheral components such as a mouse, keyboard, or printer.
Reasons for hot-swappingHot swapping is used whenever it is desirable to change the configuration or repair a working system without interrupting its operation. It may simply be for convenience, to avoid the delay and nuisance of shutting down and then restarting complex equipment, or because it is essential that the equipment be permanently available.
Hot swapping may be used to add or remove peripherals or components, to allow a device to synchronize data with a computer, and to replace faulty modules without interrupting equipment operation.
Equipment may be designed with redundancy so that in the event of the failure of a component, other parts of the system carry out its functions while the faulty component is removed and a replacement connected. For example, computer RAID disk arrays allow a faulty disk to be hot-swapped for a new one; the new one is configured to become part of the array automatically or by user command. A machine may have dual power supplies, each adequate to power the machine; a faulty one may be hot-swapped.
Hot swapping can also be used as a means for circumventing security measures preventing the execution of unsigned code, a common example of this is hot swapping the Microsoft Xbox Console hard drive.
for more details please see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_swapping
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and goes on to say this.. which is the major debate about hot swapping HD's..
System/Operational designThere are two slightly differing meanings of the term hot swapping. It may refer only to the ability to add or remove hardware without powering down the system, while the system software may have to be notified by the user of the event in order to cope with it. Examples include RS-232 and lower-end SCSI devices. This is sometimes called cold plugging. However, if the system can detect and respond to addition or removal of hardware, it is referred to as true hot plugging. Examples include USB, FireWire and higher-end SCSI devices.
Some implementations require a component shutdown procedure prior to removal. This simplifies the design, but such devices are not robust in the case of component failure. If a component is removed while it is being used, the operations to that device fail and the user is responsible for retrying if necessary, although this is not usually considered to be a problem.
More complex implementations may recommend but do not require that the component be shut down, with sufficient redundancy in the system to allow operation to continue if a component is removed without being shut down. In these systems hot swap is normally used for regular maintenance to the computer, or to replace a broken component.
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I'll stick by my statements...
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The term hot swapable goes back several years and was originally designed for severs used in RAID configurations with both the drive and chassis specifically designed so that a drive could be changed with no loss of data. These are commercial units with commercial prices.
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Finally some semblance of reason...
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Somebody ought to correct the article than, for some reason they have this silly idea that USB was designed for hot swapping. Somebody ought to correct the USB specifications which make several references to that intended functionality.
Or we can all put the blinders on and pretend that it's not hot-swappable to make Patio feel better.
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Well let him keep powering down his system to plug in a Hard drive, mouse, keyboard, phone, camera, etc,etc,etc,etc, not my problem... how ever i stick to my statement: hotspawable simply in all lamens terms means that you can plug and unplug an item into a system that is powered on.
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The term hot swapable goes back several years and was originally designed for severs used in RAID configurations with both the drive and chassis specifically designed so that a drive could be changed with no loss of data. These are commercial units with commercial prices.
Terms aren't "designed" and how a term was originally used has absolutely no bearing on what it means now. Also, the term in the context of RAID meant you could replace the drive while the system was on, and the array was in use. Warm swap meant you had to stop the computer from using the drive (by dismounting the RAID array) Cold swap meant you could power down, replace, power up, and the RAID array would work just fine with the new drive.
Going by that terminology, a USB drive would be a Warm swappable device. So would a eSATA drive, which has the exact same issues with requiring the "safely remove" option, the only difference is that all eSATA drives are going to be recognized as fixed disks, and so they won't have any write-caching by default, but this is also the case for removable fixed Hard disks that connect via USB, so whatever term applies to one applies to the other.
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The term hot swapable goes back several years and was originally designed for severs used in RAID configurations with both the drive and chassis specifically designed so that a drive could be changed with no loss of data. These are commercial units with commercial prices.
Telcon switches in particular have had hot swappable CPU boards, etc for many years as do many commercial servers. They now call them "blade servers" when used for internet applications. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blade_server