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Microsoft => Microsoft DOS => Topic started by: Geek-9pm on March 30, 2012, 11:53:55 AM

Title: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: Geek-9pm on March 30, 2012, 11:53:55 AM
Is it OK to download MS DOS 7 for my own use?
Yes, you can find it on a torrent, but that is not the question.
My question is will MS permit me to use a copy of it even if I never paid for it? Of course, yers ago I did really pasy for a copy of MS-DOS 6.22 when I bought Windows 3.11, but I would not imagine that give me the right to MS-DOS 7.10,; Or does it?
The CNET download.com site lists several MS institutes taht are free. It even has a download for DOS 6.22. So, does that mean MS does not care anymore?
http://www.cnet.com/topic/microsoft-ms-dos.html

A Google search for MS-DOS 7.1 will yield sites that say they have it.
And your tube, of course.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRdfG4D7Y4A
(His taste in music is questionable.)

So is it legal? Is it really from MS?
Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: Salmon Trout on March 30, 2012, 12:17:45 PM
Microsoft does care, and no version of MS-DOS has been made freeware. MS-DOS 7.x and 8.x were never released as a standalone operating system like (for example) version 6.22. They were was part of Windows 95, 98 and ME. As far as I am aware, ownership of a license for Windows 3.11 does not confer entitlement to use other later operating systems.

Version 6.22 (Retail) - Last standalone MS-DOS
Version 7.0 (Win95,95A) - Support for VFAT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VFAT)   long file names. New editor. JO.SYS is an alternative filename of the   IO.SYS kernel file and used as such for "special purposes". JO.SYS   allows booting from CD-ROM to hard disk.
Version 7.1 (Win95B-Win98SE) - Support for FAT32 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAT32) file system. Last general purpose DOS to load Windows
Version 8.0 (WinME) - Integrated drivers for faster Windows loading. Four different kernels (IO.SYS) observed.
Version 8.0 (WinXP) - DOS boot disks created by XP and later contain files from WinME. The internal command prompt still reports version 5.0

That link leads to a page which only has the 6.2 "stepup" files - this was a Microsoft package to upgrade 6.2 to 6.22.

You cannot legally download any version except through regular legal channels (MSDN, licensed volume user etc)

Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: TheShadow on March 31, 2012, 08:17:29 PM
Geek,
What part of DOS do you need?  (or want)
Just the DOS that would normally be on a formatted disk, or more than that?

Any disk formatted on a Windows ME machine will have a lot of Dos 8 on it.

I use a floppy disk, formatted on my own Windows ME PC, for my DOS Utilities disk.
That disk contains, FDISK, Format and Scandisk.  It's great for setting up new hard drives.

 8)
Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: Geek-9pm on March 31, 2012, 11:35:57 PM
Yes. Windows ME had MS-DOS 8 on it.
The question is it legal to use any recent version of MS-DOS if you did not pay for same.  Many users here never had a Windows ME computer.

There a re many ways to get a copy of either 7.10 or 8.0 with no payment made to Microsoft. But on this forum it is generally held that if you didn't pay for it, it is not legit.

A real NIB DOS 6.22 on eBay is about $20, therefore one wound think  you surely can't get DOS 7.10 for free. Don't make sense.

The MS-DOS 7.10 was in Windows 95 and supports FAT32.
What exactly IS this MS-DOS 7.1? (http://www.computing.net/answers/windows-31/what-exactly-is-this-msdos-71/10878.html)

You can still buy original windows 95 CDs on eBay with COA. They are not free.

BTW: If anybody want to sell a MS products on eBay without all the original material, it will be removed.

Back to the topic. There is a web site that offers a FREE copy of MS-DOS 7.1 for download. I will not name it here. I want to know how he gets away with it. If it is legit, it would be nice to know. But if you never owed a Windows 95 CD, it should not be lawful to use it.  Same for Windows ME **

Yes, I did have a 95 CD, legal, never sold it, but it got damaged. So I am still a legal owner. So I am sure I would be inside the law. But Maybe I  can not recommend northers to get a copy. That is why I posted the question.

** Off topic, MS should pay somebody n to steal all the copies of Windows ME.
Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: Salmon Trout on April 01, 2012, 01:02:13 AM
What exactly IS this MS-DOS 7.1? (http://www.computing.net/answers/windows-31/what-exactly-is-this-msdos-71/10878.html)

The versions went like this:

MS-DOS 6.22 (1994, last standalone version)
MS-DOS 7.0   (1995, Windows 95A)
MS-DOS 7.10 (1996, Windows 95 OSR 2, Windows 95 OSR 2.5, Windows 98, and Windows 98 SE)
MS-DOS 8.0   (2000, Windows Me)

You will see there is no "7.1" version in that list. There was never a 7.1 version of MS-DOS released by Microsoft. Not as a standalone OS, nor as part of a Windows version. There is an "MS-DOS 7.1" version mentioned on the Web which is an unofficial "distribution" created by two characters called Wengier and Roy. This was based on the Windows 98fe kernel and a mixture of Microsoft and open source utilities. All Microsoft licenses forbid extraction of files and their incorporation into other products, whether sold or given away. A number of websites hosting or linking to the "7.1" packages have been forced to stop, and many forums ban linking or discussion which would assist its use.

A separate but linked issue is that of "downgrade rights". Some (not all) Microsoft OS licenses confer the right to use (some) (specified) prior editions. They must be installed through legitimate means, e.g. from legally obtained physical media.



 
Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: Salmon Trout on April 01, 2012, 01:04:52 AM
Yes, I did have a 95 CD, legal, never sold it, but it got damaged. So I am still a legal owner. So I am sure I would be inside the law.

You would have been inside the law to use that CD when it was undamaged, but I don't think that having once owned a disk confers any rights to later use pirated software.
Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: Salmon Trout on April 01, 2012, 02:19:04 AM
A clarification/correction. I see that I earlier wrote this:

Quote
Version 6.22 (Retail) - Last standalone MS-DOS
Version 7.0 (Win95,95A) - Support for VFAT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VFAT)     long file names. New editor. JO.SYS is an alternative filename of the     IO.SYS kernel file and used as such for "special purposes". JO.SYS     allows booting from CD-ROM to hard disk.
Version 7.1 (Win95B-Win98SE) - Support for FAT32 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAT32) file system. Last general purpose DOS to load Windows
Version 8.0 (WinME) - Integrated drivers for faster Windows loading. Four different kernels (IO.SYS) observed.
Version   8.0 (WinXP) - DOS boot disks created by XP and later contain files from   WinME. The internal command prompt still reports version 5.0

The reference to 7.1 quoted is incorrect/misleading (blame Wikipedia); see below as I later posted.

MS-DOS 7.0   (1995, Windows 95A)
MS-DOS 7.10 (1996, Windows 95 OSR 2, Windows 95 OSR 2.5, Windows 98, and Windows 98 SE)
MS-DOS 8.0   (2000, Windows Me)

To add to the confusion (or fun), as well as the fake "MS-DOS 7.1" collection, there are also IBM PC-DOS,  and DR-DOS/Novell DOS/OpenDos "seven dot something" versions. Very recently, (Jan 2012) FreeDOS 1.1 was released; this is completely open-source and free.
Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: Geek-9pm on April 01, 2012, 02:47:01 AM
Thank u Salmon Trout. This thread can be a useful reference tool.
I agree will all you said.  To b legal, one must have an original media copy of the product. And all of the MS-DOS version here mentioned are at least 12 years old. None of ll these versions read the NTFS format, so there is hardly any reason to use them.

From now on I am not going to recommend a user use a DOS boot disk to test his computer. The better free test programs out there do not use MS-DOS anyway. They use other software to independently start a diagnostic program.

There is a problem with Hiren's BootCD. Because of legal problems of some kind, it is not recommended. 

Windows 7 has built-in features to repair from the install DVD. Or, if your PC did not have a install DVD, you can make one for later use if ever needed.

So, I will stop telling people to use a Windows 98 boot floppy. Not vary many new users know what the was. 
Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: 0ffer on April 11, 2012, 12:50:52 PM
Quote
MS-DOS 7.x and 8.x were never released as a standalone operating system
It is not quite correct
New MSDOS7 Folder After Windows 2000 Upgrade (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/191860)
When you upgrade to Windows 2000 from Windows 98, an MS-DOS option is  created on the Windows NT Boot menu, and an MSDOS7 folder is created in the root  folder.
Windows 2000 setup ="MSDOS7 creator"
MS-DOS 8.0 -  Final version of MS-DOS - DOS boot disks created by XP and later (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-DOS)
Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: Salmon Trout on April 11, 2012, 12:56:15 PM
It is not quite correct

It is quite correct. Something accompanying Windows versions that lets you make a boot disk or creates a DOS boot option is not a standalone MS-DOS version, as MS-DOS 6.22 was.



Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: Geek-9pm on April 11, 2012, 02:21:02 PM
Search for 'DOS 7.1' gives links to 'DOS 7.10', which is to be expected. There is no DOS 7.1 - just 7.10 and why the zero is significant would just extend the life of this thread. Let's stop here.   ;D
Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: Salmon Trout on April 11, 2012, 02:42:40 PM
Search for 'DOS 7.1' gives links to 'DOS 7.10', which is to be expected. There is no DOS 7.1 - just 7.10 and why the zero is significant would just extend the life of this thread. Let's stop here.   ;D

I gave a pretty complete explanation of this 11 days ago in reply no. 4.
Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: TheShadow on April 11, 2012, 07:02:04 PM
Just how long do copyrights last?  Do you know?  I've heard it's only ten years.

MS no longer sells or supports it's DOS versions, so how long do we have to cow tow to them?

MS dos, IBM dos and Dr Dos is available all over the internet for FREE download to anyone who wants it.

End:
Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: BC_Programmer on April 11, 2012, 07:40:20 PM
Just how long do copyrights last?  Do you know?  I've heard it's only ten years.
It varies by country. Average is until 70 years after the death of the last surviving author.

Quote
MS no longer sells or supports it's DOS versions, so how long do we have to cow tow to them?
MS dos, IBM dos and Dr Dos is available all over the internet for FREE download to anyone who wants it.
I'm not sure I follow your reasoning. MS-DOS and PC-DOS are commercial products; Are you saying that because they aren't sold new anymore, paired with the fact that its easy to pirate, that people should just grab it when they please?

The argument boils down to essentially saying that "It's easier to pirate, therefore it is right to do so."; and even if that isn't what you are suggesting, I don't thing anybody can argue that your post seems to endorse piracy.

And to deflate the argument made, you can quite easily buy it.  Ebay, Amazon, as well as other on-line stores, such as cdw.com, sell things like copies of MS-DOS. Most small to medium sized businesses often hold onto their older software, even after they have upgraded to new machines. Often they can be easily coaxed to part with them either for cheap or for very little cost. Sometimes you can even get a hold of an older PC if you want it.

Of course at that point, it's usually used software, so one could argue that the net effect to the Original Developer is no different than it would be if it had been pirated. On the other hand, you'll probably have the box and manuals; and oftentimes if you were to pirate it you would still have to write them to floppies, and often those floppies end up costing more than if you had bought a used copy. Not to mention the troubles involved if the media uses the DMF format.

Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: Geek-9pm on April 11, 2012, 07:56:20 PM

One more post. Some copyrights go for 17 years.  In that case, significant program release in 1996 would still be under copyright. But a copyright may be extended by making improvements to a work, including computer programs.

Making unauthorized copies of an old work violates the copyright if the older work is now incorporated into a newer work.

Example: the Elvis Presley song "Love Me Tender" was a new set of lyrics based on a very old melody.  Anybody using that song in a public performance could get some heat from the Presley people, even if they did not use the new lyrics.
Elvis Presley Love me tender Best Version Ever Amazing Performance  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBOtPvrluhU)
Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: TheShadow on April 11, 2012, 07:58:38 PM
You realize, that argument is totally BS.....right?
So if I share a copy with a friend it's piracy, in your mind, but If I sell it via Ebay it's OK????
That's totally incredulous!

Do you even realize how stupid that sounds to the real world?

You can call it whatever you want, but I call it doing a favor for a friend. 

Apparently, everything is piracy or just plain WRONG, unless it puts money in your pocket.  Right?

Just try to buy MS dos from Microsoft and see how far that gets you.  Rots O Ruck!

This thread has gone from stupid to just plain incredible.

I'm outta hear!

 8)

Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: Geek-9pm on April 11, 2012, 08:28:56 PM
Quote
Do you even realize how stupid that sounds to the real world?
Copyright Law is the real world.
Please let me close this thread. Here is something you might like.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8b/Copyleft.svg/100px-Copyleft.svg.png)
CopyLeft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyleft)
Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: TheShadow on April 11, 2012, 08:36:17 PM
Answer my question, if you can......

Quote
So if I share a copy with a friend it's piracy, in your mind, but If I sell it via Ebay it's OK????

You're getting more ridiculous by the minute and the people wanting or needing a copy of DOS are still in the dark.

So if you can, please tell them how to buy a copy from your obvious employer, Microsoft.
Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: Geek-9pm on April 11, 2012, 08:43:35 PM
Quote
So if you can, please tell them how to buy a copy from your obvious employer, Microsoft.
Wish I had been employed by them.  In that case I would be writing this on a beach in the Caribbean instead of a small house in a little know town in California.

Any Microsoft products sold on eBay have to meet strict requirements set by  Microsoft. The have to be original and complete. And the do enforce it. I know.
Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: TheShadow on April 11, 2012, 09:01:25 PM
With all due respect, and I do respect your right to your opinion, I just don't share it.  OK?
Scream, yell, stomp your feet and whatever, and I still won't agree with you.
NO.....I'm not selling DOS at any price, so don't get your panties in a wad.

If MS refuses to sell you an out of date product, which they don't even support, or sell, then you or I have a right to acquire it anywhere they/we like.

Let those Bas****s  prosecute me if they like, for my opinion.  I could well use the free room and board, free cloths, free medical care, free TV  and even free burial.  It's a win - win proposition. 

I've already set down with an FBI investigator and had a nice friendly chat about software piracy.  They won't even investigate a single person sharing a program with a friend.  Period.  End of case.

What they ARE interested in, is a person or group, packaging and selling copies of current software, like games, and selling them as if they are originals in original looking packaging.  That really gets them going.
I really enjoyed my little chat with the FBI agent.....it was very illuminating. ;D

Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: BC_Programmer on April 11, 2012, 09:20:27 PM
Why people steal software and how they justify doing so is based on their personal opinions regarding stealing and theft. What constitutes stealing? Sticking a gun in someone's side is undeniably stealing. Are "White collar" crimes, like embezzlement and fraud, stealing? Is cheating on your income tax, or padding your expense account an criminal offense? Is it stealing to 'borrow' a pen from work to use with non-company business? Is making personal phone calls on company time, taking an extra hour at lunch, spending work time daydreaming, or otherwise putting in less than a full days work stealing from your employer? Most people consider these things nothing more than normal and in general acceptable behaviour (within limits, obviously a person who constantly takes long lunches or sits around doing nothing is going to raise eyebrows from the higher-ups). Even though the law distinguishes between petty theft and grand larceny, what constitutes "stealing" for most of us is a matter of personal opinion.

You realize, that argument is totally BS.....right?
Well you've yet to properly counter it.
Quote
So if I share a copy with a friend it's piracy, in your mind, but If I sell it via Ebay it's OK????
Yes. Of course it's piracy.

Quote
Do you even realize how stupid that sounds to the real world?
Yes, I've spent some time there. You should give it a shot some day.

You can call it whatever you want, but I call it doing a favor for a friend. 

Quote
Apparently, everything is piracy or just plain WRONG, unless it puts money in your pocket.  Right?
Three things: I never said piracy was wrong. The fact is that making copies of copyright software is piracy. It's also against the law in all countries that are signatories to the Berne Convention. Whether it is morally wrong is another question altogether and fits in with the above regarding subjective viewpoints.
Second, if you don't want to pay for software, there are plenty of free alternatives.

Third: it's odd that you make the argument "unless it puts money in your pocket". First, I don't work for Microsoft, so it wouldn't put money in my pocket anyway. This has nothing to do with money and everything to do with what is and is not illegal, and therefore safe to endorse on the forum. And if it had to do with money, it would have to be your own refusal to part with it to get a piece of software, while making ad hoc justifications based on it being old, or some other nonsense.


Quote
Just try to buy MS dos from Microsoft and see how far that gets you.  Rots O Ruck!
asserting your original claim without addressing the argument I put against it is meaningless. As I said, there are alternative channels to get it. Most people don't buy their software directly from the company in question anyway, and sometimes it's not possible from the get-go, instead relying on a specific distribution platform run by another company.

People who don't write software are especially quick to dismiss software as intangible and that copying commercial software products is a victimless crime. However the same argument could be put forward for "borrowing" a neighbors cable using a Y splitter. Most importantly, for software, there actually is a monetary loss involved in piracy. Not really from "lost revenue" which is difficult to calculate anyway, but more so from providing support for pirated copies of the software, which often comprises an alarming percentage of fielded calls.

It's sort of a example of the Free Rider (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_rider_problem) problem. This is a growing trend, and has been growing over time both as Computers and digital information permeate more of our lives and people catch on to the fact that they can get away with obtaining something without contributing; over time more and more people go from being contributors(buying software) to "free riders" (who pirate it or get friends to copy it). This is normal human behaviour because contributing incurs costs of various kinds, and consumers inherently try to minimize their costs if at all possible.  For older software, the heavy cost is usually in time, just finding how to buy it proper can be difficult, and some people can't be bothered with the intellectual burden of such a task when they could either make a duplicate of one of their own disks or download a copy for free off the internet.

The free rider problem is not a static issue. It usually grows over time as people catch on to the fact that they can get away with obtaining something without contributing, and hence more and more people go from being contributors to free riders. This is normal human behaviour because contributing incurs costs of various kinds, and consumers inherently try to minimize their costs if at all possible.

Of course, that only applies when the software in question is being actively sold. What about abandonware? Where does that fit in?

Well, as I noted, you can buy it; and you can often get it for free- in boxes- from businesses that have been around long enough and happen to have old stock. However there is a distinct difference from purchasing a used copy of MS-DOS on ebay and copying your friends floppies; the former deprives the seller of the product and gives it to the buyer in exchange for a price. the latter- whether you call it "doing a favour for a friend" or not (would you use that same argument as the driver of a getaway van?) is still software piracy. It's a lot easier for people to find moral footing with it, but that doesn't change what it is, nor how it is regarded by the law and therefore by forum rules. Personally, I have no moral qualm with the very thing you mentioned, such as making a copy of the DOS install disks for a friend, for many of the same reasons you mention; the time-investment of getting a copy "properly" would often far exceed what I would be willing to pay (time wise and money-wise). However, I also don't fool myself into thinking it's legally above board or that it isn't piracy, because it is. More often I've been suggesting freeDOS, not because it's free and legally in the clear to endorse in settings such as this forum but also because it's functionality in many respects far surpasses what any standalone copy of MS-DOS can do.

I made no implications about the morality of piracy, or how I feel about it. I've only stated a few facts. To reiterate:

1. As per the Berne convention, making copies of copyright software is copyright infringement and therefore a criminal offense in all signatory countries, with varying ancillary rules depending on the country.
2. Piracy is the act of making copies of copyright software.
3. Therefore, making copies of copyright software- it doesn't matter what the purpose is, whether it's a torrent or you're using a DISKCOPY to create copies of the DOS 6 setup disks- is illegal. It doesn't matter how you feel about it- or how I feel about it (which I've not mentioned, so your suppositions thereof are nothing more than wild speculation) It's illegal and therefore it is against the forum rules to endorse it.

Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: BC_Programmer on April 11, 2012, 09:23:41 PM
I've already set down with an FBI investigator and had a nice friendly chat about software piracy.  They won't even investigate a single person sharing a program with a friend.  Period.  End of case.
That's an interesting moral compass. If you can get away with it, it must be morally good.

Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: TheShadow on April 11, 2012, 09:29:48 PM
Point one..... I wasn't talking to you.
Speak when you're spoken to.
And your opinion means less to me than last weeks weather report.
Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: BC_Programmer on April 11, 2012, 10:27:55 PM
An interesting debate strategy. Rather than actually take part in what could become a fruitful debate, instead just tell them to shut up. Speak when spoken to?  Are you serious? I'll speak to and respond to whoever I please and in whatever manner I choose, and if you don't like it, then you should have sent it as Private Message to the party you were "speaking to". The addition of "I don't care what you think" is an interesting one as well, because it basically attempts to build yourself a reassuring litany in which you can assert your own viewpoint as correct simply by virtue of discarding conflicting viewpoints.

Which makes it even more interesting, because the very thing I am stating is that whether copying a floppy, or CD or other media is, or is not, piracy is not a question of viewpoint- it's a fact. I showed this clearly through logical discourse. Whether piracy itself is bad, moral, etc is another question altogether, but it IS illegal and therefore endorsing it on this forum goes against the rules as I understand them. Your 'counterclaim' is basically 'you're stupid and I hate you', which says a lot more than I ever could.


Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: Geek-9pm on April 11, 2012, 10:30:52 PM
Were you talking to me?
For all you know Geek-9pm and BC_Programmer might be the same person. We often disagree. But sometimes we walk in step. Now this is one of those times where I am in step with BC_Programmer. Every thing he said might have come from me. But it didn't. But you don't really know that.

As he said, selling an overstock on eBay is a legal practice and contributes to the economic system. Putting copyright materiel of dons load on the internet without consent does not contribute to the advancement of computer since nor advances commercial development of better products.
As BC_Programmer said, letting a friend use old software has little impact on the overall morel issue. But we were never talking about letting a friend use a copy for a private project. The issue here is was wide speed downloading of copyright material.
I started this thread because there is a site run by an individual who gofers a version of MS-DOS  that he modified to nun off of a USB flash. As I stated, for the legal reasons of weightiness, not petty triviality,  I will not post anymore links to that site. Even though I sure like the idea. But that individual is moving his web site hit count up by using somebody's work. He can, indirectly, make a lot of money that way. A lot of money. I won't even guess, but a lot more that several  legal MS-DOS packages. Bug bucks. Bread. Greed. Avarice. Cupidity.
Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: Salmon Trout on April 11, 2012, 11:57:22 PM
Wow, what a stupid set of posts by The Shadow, that contributed nothing useful to the thread, and made him look very bad. he can't spell, either.
Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: BC_Programmer on April 12, 2012, 02:24:05 PM
I started this thread because there is a site run by an individual who gofers a version of MS-DOS  that he modified to nun off of a USB flash. As I stated, for the legal reasons of weightiness, not petty triviality,  I will not post anymore links to that site. Even though I sure like the idea. But that individual is moving his web site hit count up by using somebody's work. He can, indirectly, make a lot of money that way. A lot of money. I won't even guess, but a lot more that several  legal MS-DOS packages. Bug bucks. Bread. Greed. Avarice. Cupidity.

If you are interested in booting to a DOS environment with a Flash Drive, I've found FreeDOS to be quite good. I've tried the ones you note, that call themselves "DOS 7.1 standalone" and are, according to the setup program "GNU software" (yeah, right...). They don't work even as well as FreeDOS seems to, in my experience. They seem to pack in a lot of software that they refer to as "GPL'd" when it isn't; Norton Disk tools, for example, aren't GNU software; neither are most of the other things included. The DOS 7 and higher "standalone" versions found on the net are essentially collections of pirated and unofficial software.
Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: Geek-9pm on April 12, 2012, 03:13:07 PM
Good. FreeDOS and its children are all GPL.
From now on I will tell anyone  to use  FreeDOS (http://www.freedos.org/), which has active volunteer support and no legal issues.   :)
Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: 0ffer on April 13, 2012, 04:40:00 AM
No comment
Quote
The DOS 7 and higher "standalone" versions found on the net are essentially collections of pirated and unofficial software.
The following files are located in the MSDOS7 folder: (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/191860)
Code: [Select]
   ANSI     SYS         9,719  05-11-98  8:01p ANSI.SYS
   ATTRIB   EXE        15,252  05-11-98  8:01p ATTRIB.EXE
   CHKDSK   EXE        28,096  05-11-98  8:01p CHKDSK.EXE
   CHOICE   COM         5,239  05-11-98  8:01p CHOICE.COM
   COMMAND  COM        93,880  05-11-98  8:01p COMMAND.COM
   COUNTRY  SYS        30,742  05-11-98  8:01p COUNTRY.SYS
   DEBUG    EXE        20,554  05-11-98  8:01p DEBUG.EXE
   DEFRAG   EX~       253,952  05-11-98  8:01p DEFRAG.EX~
   DELTREE  EXE        19,083  05-11-98  8:01p DELTREE.EXE
   DISKCOPY COM        21,975  05-11-98  8:01p DISKCOPY.COM
   DISPLAY  SYS        17,175  05-11-98  8:01p DISPLAY.SYS
   DOSKEY   COM        15,495  05-11-98  8:01p DOSKEY.COM
   EDIT     COM        69,902  05-11-98  8:01p EDIT.COM
   EDIT     HLP        10,790  05-11-98  8:01p EDIT.HLP
   EGA      CPI        58,870  05-11-98  8:01p EGA.CPI
   EMM386   EXE       125,495  05-11-98  8:01p EMM386.EXE
   EXTRACT  EXE        93,242  05-11-98  8:01p EXTRACT.EXE
   FC       EXE        20,574  05-11-98  8:01p FC.EXE
   FDISK    EXE        63,900  05-11-98  8:01p FDISK.EXE
   FIND     EXE         6,658  05-11-98  8:01p FIND.EXE
   FORMAT   COM        49,575  05-11-98  8:01p FORMAT.COM
   HIMEM    SYS        33,191  05-11-98  8:01p HIMEM.SYS
   IFSHLP   SYS         3,708  05-11-98  8:01p IFSHLP.SYS
   KEYB     COM        19,927  05-11-98  8:01p KEYB.COM
   KEYBOARD SYS        34,566  05-11-98  8:01p KEYBOARD.SYS
   KEYBRD2  SYS        31,942  05-11-98  8:01p KEYBRD2.SYS
   LABEL    EXE         9,324  05-11-98  8:01p LABEL.EXE
   MEM      EXE        32,146  05-11-98  8:01p MEM.EXE
   MODE     COM        29,271  05-11-98  8:01p MODE.COM
   MORE     COM        10,471  05-11-98  8:01p MORE.COM
   MOVE     EXE        27,299  05-11-98  8:01p MOVE.EXE
   MSCDEX   EXE        25,473  05-11-98  8:01p MSCDEX.EXE
   NLSFUNC  EXE         6,940  05-11-98  8:01p NLSFUNC.EXE
   SCANDISK EXE       143,818  05-11-98  8:01p SCANDISK.EXE
   SCANDISK INI         7,329  05-11-98  8:01p SCANDISK.INI
   SMARTDRV EXE        45,379  05-11-98  8:01p SMARTDRV.EXE
   SORT     EXE        25,882  05-11-98  8:01p SORT.EXE
   START    EXE        28,672  05-11-98  8:01p START.EXE
   SUBST    EXE        17,904  05-11-98  8:01p SUBST.EXE
   SYS      COM        18,967  05-11-98  8:01p SYS.COM
   XCOPY    EXE         3,878  05-11-98  8:01p XCOPY.EXE
   XCOPY32  MOD        41,472  05-11-98  8:01p XCOPY32.MOD
   TEMP           <DIR>        08-15-98  5:53p TEMP
   SCANDISK EX~       143,818  05-11-98  1:01p SCANDISK.EX~
   DBLSPACE BAT           397  05-11-98  8:01p DBLSPACE.BAT
   DEFRAG   BAT           333  05-11-98  8:01p DEFRAG.BAT
   DRVSPACE BAT           323  05-11-98  8:01p DRVSPACE.BAT
   SCANDISK BAT           149  05-11-98  8:01p SCANDISK.BAT
Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107 (http://uscode.house.gov./download/pls/17C1.txt)
Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use.
Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: Salmon Trout on April 13, 2012, 10:07:05 AM
Offer's post proves nothing.
Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: Geek-9pm on April 13, 2012, 11:27:37 AM
Offer's post proves nothing.
Right. The document has references to Computer Software. It includes the idea of Computer Rental and copyright issues.

It would make this thread more meaningful if specific issue were addressed. Specifically, can a person make a profit by offering downloads of software his does not own. Yes, people do it, but is it legal.

Example:
Quote
How long does a copyright last?
The term of copyright for a particular work depends on several factors, including whether it has been published, and, if so, the date of first publication. As a general rule, for works created after January 1, 1978, copyright protection lasts for the life of the author plus an additional 70 years. For an anonymous work, a pseudonymous work, or a work made for hire, the copyright endures for a term of 95 years from the year of its first publication or a term of 120 years from the year of its creation, whichever expires first. For works first published prior to 1978, the term will vary depending on several factors. To determine the length of copyright protection for a particular work, consult chapter 3 of the Copyright Act (title 17 of the United States Code). More information on the term of copyright can be found in Circular 15a, Duration of Copyright, and Circular 1, Copyright Basics.
http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-duration.html#duration
The above shows that presently the 7, 10  or 17 years rules are not the current law in the USA. (Others countries also)
The question "Can I do something illegal if it does not directly involve money" is so juvenile that it is not worth considering.
Now to the crux of the matter.
"Can anybody offer re-copied of old software that was abandoned."
Make a guess, but read this:
Quote
Abandonware are discontinued products for which no product support is available, or whose copyright ownership may be unclear for various reasons. Abandonware may be computer software or physical devices which are usually computerised in some fashion, such as personal computer games, productivity applications, utility software, or mobile phones.  ...
Abandonware. From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandonware)
Of course, Wikipedia is not a legal authority. But does  provide a framework and a list of references.

Quote
Even if the copyright is not defended, copying of such software is still unlawful in most jurisdictions when a copyright is still in effect. Abandonware changes hands on the assumption that the resources required to enforce copyrights outweigh benefits a copyright holder might realize from selling software licenses.

Quote
References
    ^ a b "The Abandonware Ring FAQ". The Official Abandonware Ring. 2006. Archived from the original on 28 March 2007. Retrieved March 8, 2007
http://www.abandonwarering.com/?Page=FAQ
Is that enough?
Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: Salmon Trout on April 13, 2012, 11:33:49 AM
The question "Can I do something illegal if it does not directly involve money" is so juvenile that it is not worth considering.

Indeed. Indecent assault, genocide, and breaking the speed limit are all illegal in civilised countries, and don't directly involve money.

Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: patio on April 13, 2012, 03:11:55 PM
4 - 3 - 2 - 1....
Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: TheShadow on May 03, 2012, 03:27:38 PM
Patio, it doesn't look as though you closed this thread, so can I ask a really dumb question?

Thank you,

Isn't  DOS included in every version of Windows?
If you format a floppy disk, for instance and ask for it to be made bootable, have you not just taken some of DOS off of the PC?
At least a small part of it is and will go wherever that disk goes. 
Just curious......

So I'm just wondering how much DOS a person really needs that they couldn't get from their own PC. 
I wouldn't even think of asking someone else for DOS.  I told you this was a Dumb question?

 8)
Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: Salmon Trout on May 03, 2012, 03:45:35 PM
Isn't  DOS included in every version of Windows?
If you format a floppy disk, for instance and ask for it to be made bootable, have you not just taken some of DOS off of the PC?

Some (not all) versions of Windows have the capability of creating a bootable floppy disk that contains a (very) small subset of files from MS-DOS, the standalone single-user text based operating system whose last standalone version (6.22) was released in 1994. That small subset is just enough to boot the computer and if necessary access a CD-ROM drive. It is not the complete MS-DOS operating system, and I don't think the license for the Windows install that it came from allows the user to sell it or distribute it freely.
Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: TheShadow on May 03, 2012, 03:56:37 PM
Was selling or distributing a part of the OP's quest?  For Shame, if it was, but I didn't read it that way.

I have several PC's with Windows ME on them.  A floppy disk formatted on ME is great for a DOS utilities disk.  It's just full of all sorts of neat stuff.   And more DOS files from within ME can be added to the disk for added functions.

Oh well, those of us that know how, DO and those that don't, ASK.  Eh?

Y'all have a great day now, Y'hear?

 8)

Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: BC_Programmer on May 03, 2012, 03:56:59 PM
Isn't  DOS included in every version of Windows?
No. Non x86 versions of windows cannot seem to format a system disk from a floppy. (at least from the prompt, the /s switch for the format command now enables or disables short file name generation). I don't have a floppy disk to test, though. Actually looking back it seems like none of the NT lineage provides either a /S switch or a sys command for creating a system disk from the prompt.
Quote
If you format a floppy disk, for instance and ask for it to be made bootable, have you not just taken some of DOS off of the PC?
At least a small part of it is and will go wherever that disk goes. 
Yes. But what is your point? The EULA for most software states you can install the program on a computer and has provisions for a portable, non-permanent installation of it. testing via a XP vm, format.com, at least since XP, does not support the /s switch, and there is no sys command to copy to said floppy either, making the floppy created from the SHFormatDrive() function nothing more than a portable boot disk. it cannot, however, be permanently installed to another machine using the facilities provided either by copying files from the original system or provided on the disk (which only has three files, iirc)

The DOS Setup floppies, on the other hand, are designed specifically for installing it onto the hard drive of a machine.


Quote
So I'm just wondering how much DOS a person really needs that they couldn't get from their own PC. 
Well, since XP (probably any NT windows system) and later only allow you to create a bootable floppy which can not then be installed to another hard drive, if all a person wants to do is use internal commands on FAT disks, without installing from that floppy, than it's all there. Of course, the DOS package consists of more than msdos.sys, io.sys, and command.com, but also external utilities like find, more, sort, edit, qbasic, scandisk/chkdsk, format, sys, deltree, mscdex, diskcopy, comp, fc, diskcomp, etc.

Of course for 9x it's a bit difference since you could create a working DOS environment on another machine by copying files from the C:\Windows\command folder and using sys on that other drive.
 
But, just because a Operating System gives you the first step in such a process (creating a boot disk) doesn't mean that it is condoning the extension of that allowance to "permission" to supplant those files to a completely different system.

Quote
I wouldn't even think of asking someone else for DOS.  I told you this was a Dumb question?
With the exception that, unless you have rather old, 9x systems, that copy of DOS is going to stay on the floppy since it doesn't provide the capability to make other disks system disks via format /s or the sys command- the DOS version of the boot disk is Windows ME iirc but Windows no longer has a C:\Windows\Command directory from which you could copy files; If somebody has Win9x then it's possible to transplant the underlying DOS system from that system to another, but that applies to Windows itself, too, which could meticulously be copied and reconstructed on another system. However to my understanding there is no provision that being able to move software using a floppy disk made it public domain.
Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: BC_Programmer on May 03, 2012, 04:07:58 PM
Was selling or distributing a part of the OP's quest?
The assumption is that they want to download MS-DOS 7 so that they can distribute it to one or more machines. And since we don't know the goal, the fact is that anybody would be able to view any information given on the forum, so even if they just wanted it for some slipshod museum, somebody else could easily stumble upon this thread and follow the helpful directions to get a free copy of DOS, which would be distribution. At that point the forum becomes an accessory to a crime. Now one can debate the morality of the law behind that crime and argue against it until one is blue in the face, but that isn't going to make that law go away. If somebody feels strongly about copyright law and feel it is mismanaged, they should lobby their own government, not members on a forum.

Quote
I have several PC's with Windows ME on them.  A floppy disk formatted on ME is great for a DOS utilities disk.  It's just full of all sorts of neat stuff.   And more DOS files from within ME can be added to the disk for added functions.
From C:\Windows\command :)

of course, that basically constitutes a portable installation. You break the EULA if you then install that DOS (by copying format.com or sys and using format /s or sys) to another hard disk for the purpose of giving it a DOS installation. the FBI/CIA/whoever is not going to smash down your door, or anything like that, but it is against the license agreement, for which a breech of contract constitutes copyright infringement. Since that is illegal, it is thus outside the realm of advice that should be given or encouraged in the context of this forum.

Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: TheShadow on May 03, 2012, 04:40:41 PM
Oh the slippery slope! ::)

I just formatted a floppy disk under XP-Pro-SP3 and it came up as version "Windows Millennium 4.90.3000"

Then I formatted another floppy under Windows 8/CP/64 and it still came up "Windows Millennium 4.90.3000"
That was somewhat surprising.  Eh?

Where does DOS 7 come into play?

I can't say that I've ever seen it.

The last DOS that I actually 'Bought' was DOS 6.22

But that's now Ancient History.

 8)

PS:  I just checked my DOS Utilities disk that was formatted on my Windows ME PC, , , guess what,,,,,"Windows Millennium 4.90.3000"
Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: Geek-9pm on May 08, 2012, 06:04:50 PM
Quote
Where does DOS 7 come into play?
I can't say that I've ever seen it.
There are things you have not seen
Google Boot to DOS 7
And see what they mean.
Title: Re: MS DOS 7 download?
Post by: BC_Programmer on May 08, 2012, 07:30:34 PM
I just formatted a floppy disk under XP-Pro-SP3 and it came up as version "Windows Millennium 4.90.3000"
The version of the DOS subsystem used by Windows ME is DOS 8.0.
Quote
Then I formatted another floppy under Windows 8/CP/64 and it still came up "Windows Millennium 4.90.3000"

Quote
That was somewhat surprising.  Eh?
Not really, no. XP and later do not use DOS, but they include the basic components of the version supplied with windows ME, which itself uses the basic layout of the Windows 98 Emergency Boot Disk.

The version numbers come from the version numbers given by that installation of DOS via the "get DOS Version" interrupt. Also, if you run MSD on a boot disk formatted in this manner, it will indicate version 7.0 for Windows 95, 7.1 for a 98 boot disk, and 8.0 for ME. the ver command is set to return the Windows version, not the MS-DOS version.

I cannot check Windows 8 or any x64-version of windows to see if they allow it, but I have no reason to think otherwise now. Anyway, the boot disks are all the same, because they are merely image files that are found within DISKCOPY.DLL. Windows XP(and presumably later) takes the additional step of adding in empty autoexec.bat and config.sys files. The Image used is based on the Windows ME Emergency Boot disk. This can be confirmed because Undelete and Norton unerase can see and recover several files from the disk after you create a boot disk with XP and later. MSDOS.SYS on the disk contains ;W98EBD because the ME boot disk was in fact based on the Windows 98SE boot disk itself.

Quote
Where does DOS 7 come into play?
The original post. The very thing being talked about is a distribution of MS-DOS where MS-DOS 7 was teased apart from it's parent Windows environment (in this case Windows 95OSRB), and distributed separately.

Quote
PS:  I just checked my DOS Utilities disk that was formatted on my Windows ME PC, , , guess what,,,,,"Windows Millennium 4.90.3000"
the Get DOS Version interrupt returns 8.0 for the Windows ME DOS subsystem.