Computer Hope
Hardware => Hardware => Topic started by: Leinfors on July 01, 2014, 02:50:56 PM
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I am not entirely sure this is in the correct location. I'll start with specs.
System specs
OS = Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit SP1
CPU = Intel Core 2 Quad Q9400
RAM = 8.00GB Dual-Channel DDR3
Motherboard = ASUSTeK Computer INC. P5P43TD
Graphics Card = 512MB NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GTX+
PSU Viotech ATX Switching Power Supply Vio70 700w
Any other specs I can provide upon request
Alright, so last week, my computer crashed in a way I have never seen before. Its about 4 years old, and its seen its fair share of issues, but not anything like this one. It abruptly shut off as if the power had been cut . . . I actually thought I had a power outage at first, until I realized my gf's computer was still on. The screen went black, the fans shut off and it was entirely silent, but the LED lights inside and outside the computer remained on. I was NOT able to restart my computer by pressing the power button, and I left it like that and went to bed. About 20 minutes later the computer spontaneously re-activated itself and all was fine.
Until this morning, this problem had not repeated itself. However, when I had used the computer for about a half hour today, it repeated this distinctive crash, along with the inability to reactivate it. Since that time it has done it an additional 3 times, 4 crashes in about 4 hours of usage (my use time has ranged from 15 minutes to about an hour before the crash occurs). The period of time before it either spontaneously reactivates or I'm able to turn it back on vary between 1 minute and a half hour.
I had some crashing issues a few months back (unrelated, and a good bit different) and I was using a temperature monitoring program to check the problem (that was caused by a CPU overheat due to a bad setting in a video game). The program (Piriform Speccy) is not showing any abnormal temperature spikes on any of the visible components. However, I noticed a while ago that the fan in my power supply no longer functions. The power supply was relatively hot the first time the computer crashed, but the later crashes today it was either only slightly warm to very warm, but never hot. Given the "power loss" behavior, I was concerned that it may be related to the power supply.
I'm considering replacing the power supply if it is the issue here, which I should probably do anyway due to the faulty fan (at least I assume its faulty . . . I don't know when it stopped working or if its possible to get it to work again). However, I'd like to find out what the cause of the issue is, I'd rather just buy a new computer rather than replace a part that won't help at all.
A friend as well as a few online reports seemed to suggest that this sort of problem can be a result of power surges. The go-to suggestion was usually to try a different outlet on the wall or surge protector. I tried this after the 3rd crash today, but it still crashed the fourth time so I am not sure if it helped (this is my fifth session online today and it is my longest lasting so far without a crash . . . around an hour).
So yeah . . . computer is turning off, stays off and will not power back on, don't know why, considering power supply as possible culprit. I'm not having any other abnormal issues with the computer. Anyone have any ideas or suggestions we could try to identify or, even better, alleviate the issue?
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I'd start with replacing the PSU as for they have a thermocouple in them that will kill them until they cool, as well as some have timers in them that the only way to reset is to unplug the power from the PSU and wait for it to drain and then plug it back in to be able to boot sooner than later.
Also as far as a video game setting overheating a CPU.... this is more of a problem then just a video game setting, as for video games should be able to bring all cores to 100% for a long period of time without the CPU overheating. So you have an issue with your CPU's cooling which could be caused by a couple of issues. ( Lack of adequate thermal compound, heatsink not rated for the CPU in use, heatsink & fan dirty with dust etc, overclocking a CPU without upgrading the heatsink, inadequate airflow within the computer case .. power supply fan is not venting the hot air etc... )
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Thanks, I'm going to look into replacing the PSU then. I DID use that "unplug and drain power" workaround to turn them back on, so that sounds like the issue.
As for the video game issue, the problem was that the game's auto-settings took one look at my system's specs and autoset the FPS to 250 with maximum settings in all other categories out of some sort of sheer overconfidence. This was causing overheating blue screens after 20-45 minutes, which I had never had before. Reducing it down to a more reasonable 60 easily negated the issue entirely. I haven't had that sort of overheating problems before or after, until now . . . and this one seems entirely unrelated, as I get the overheating even while doing mundane things like composing emails or internet browsing with a single window on low stress websites. There doesn't seem to be much correlation between system strain and shut-off.
Unfortunately, I'm not quite mechanically savvy enough to really do a lot of the simpler upgrades . . . I opened my computer for the first time this year, and have been using computers heavily for over 15 years (more than half my life). The idea of doing things like replacing thermal paste or upgrading parts is pretty beyond my confidence level . . . if I actually replace the PSU, it will easily be the most technical modification to my own system I've ever done. I'm still at that level where most "fixable" problems still require professional intervention or just buying a new computer. I'd like to change that relative inexperience, but there is only so much diving in head-first into unfamiliar territory one can do before you get in over your head.
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Power supply replacements are not that bad. I have seen some people write down where each cable came disconnected from, and this way when they install the new power supply they dont feel overwhelmed with the mess of plugs and trying to figure out where they all belong and missing a plug.
The motherboard will have 2 connections a small 4-pin and a larger 24-pin or 20+4 pin molex. You just need to be aware of the fact that you dont just yank on them, they have clips that need to be pressed to unlock them while you pull directly up at the connector. Try to avoid the rocking wiggle to disconnect as for you can damage the motherboard or connector on the motherboard. For power connections to drives its usually just a push in with no clip to worry about releasing. Just pay attention to what the plug looks like in shape and where it plugs in as for they only plug in one way and if you have to force it, its probably wrong. Lastly after everything is plugged in and the 4 screws are securing the power supply in the case so it wont fall into the case, its best to dress the cables with tie wraps or tape if need be to make everything inside neat and cables that are not at risk of getting caught in the fan blade of the CPU heatsink or the case fan.
The one most common connection that people forget about is the 4-pin molex connector which is crucial for a bootable system. Lastly if you have a high end video card that requires power connections you also need to plug those in as well. This is why making note of where plugs go and then using it as a check list with the new power supply makes this process so simple and very little risk for problems. ;)
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Thanks for the installation tips!
Is it likely that I will need to apply any thermal paste at all? If so, I'd need to buy some, but I can't see anything about needing to.
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No thermal paste needed for a PSU replacement.
Its just write down where plugs go and disconnect them 1 by 1, and then remove the 4 screws and then it slides out of the tray into the case or if trayless just comes right out the side. *Be sure the computer is laying on its side if a tower so that the PSU doesnt fall down onto motherboard.
Then install new PSU and connect the connections on your checklist and you should be good. You may end up with some extra connections in the end as for most PSU come with more than enough. Just tidy up the cables when done to make sure none will get into a fan blade and stop a cooling fan, and then all set.
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A good way to hone your hardware skills would be a $20.00 working PC to practice on...
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Alright, so I got my new power supply, and so far everything is fine. Since the initial post, I've occasionally managed to keep the computer running for up to 3 hours, so its going to take a while to see if the problem is resolved.
However, everything is currently ON, which means I installed it right . . . so that's a very good feeling. Piriform Speccy is showing that my CPU and motherboard are running a lot cooler now, ranging from mid 30s to mid 40s, while before they were getting up into the 60s, so the fixed fan really seems to be helping.
Aside from observing to see if the shut-off problem is gone, is there any short term maintenance I should be doing, or watching for, after a part change like this? Like, any signs maybe the plugs aren't fully in? Everything seems fine now, but I don't want anything to get out of hand because I got too lax too soon.
Thanks for the help on everything so far folks, its been very helpful!
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Good to hear you had success in this repair. :)