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Author Topic: MS to offer browser options in Europe.  (Read 38819 times)

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Dusty

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rthompson80819



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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2010, 03:53:39 PM »
It really bothers me how many millions of dollars, pounds, euros, etc. have been wasted on this non-issue.  MS is being forced to offer a choice of five browsers in Europe.

I've already got all five browsers, and it had nothing to do with government intervention.

I would be willing to bet that a high percentage of people on this forum also have all five.

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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2010, 05:11:12 PM »
It really bothers me how many millions of dollars, pounds, euros, etc. have been wasted on this non-issue.  MS is being forced to offer a choice of five browsers in Europe.

I've already got all five browsers, and it had nothing to do with government intervention.

I would be willing to bet that a high percentage of people on this forum also have all five.

It would have been better if MS just removed IE. there. done.

of course, then users would need to get a browser installed before they can- download a browser, but, hey, if europe doesn't want Internet Explorer, too bad. They should have to workaround the lack of a built in browser themselves, not litigate MS to include all the browsers in the OS install. If a country feels that MS shouldn't include notepad, for whatever reason, why should MS do anything but simply create a version for that country without notepad? In this case the EU managed to bully MS into including all major browsers in the OS, as well as the choice of which one to use during installation. This is equivalent to asking MS to remove notepad, and then telling them they need to provide a set of choices during installation of which other popular text editor to use. It's a giant load of crap, basically. Honestly IE is my last choice for browser ATM but it still serves the all-important purpose of allowing one to actually download the alternate browser. If MS is supposed to remove IE to distribute windows in the EU- that's fine. but it should be the EU's problem, not Microsofts, to distribute these "alternative browsers" to users.
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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2010, 05:13:37 PM »
Well on the news today, the british pm was called one of the world's biggest bullies. (Not exact wording, I really didn't watch much)
Where's MagicSpeed?
Quote from: 'matt'
He's playing a game called IRL. Great graphics, *censored* gameplay.

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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2010, 07:41:43 AM »
What does this have to do with IE ? ?
" Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2010, 11:18:14 AM »
Well on the news today, the british pm was called one of the world's biggest bullies. (Not exact wording, I really didn't watch much)
Pah. Thats most likely pathetic lies spread by the opposition and Labour back benchers who want Brown out. We're coming up to an election , and Gordon Brown has just managed to cling on to his position. Also, I think this was necessary, as most computer users in the UK don't know there are other browsers. And IE is hardly the safest browser, as even Microsoft admit it leaves your PC vulnerable to hackers.

I may be 12, but that doesn't mean I don't have an opinion on these things...



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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2010, 12:26:25 PM »
Drum Roll....

http://www.browserchoice.eu/BrowserChoice/browserchoice_en.htm

Quote
BrowserChoice.eu is a new website from Microsoft designed in accordance with a competition law decision issued by the European Commission.

Source...

soybean



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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2010, 12:30:49 PM »
Pah. Thats most likely pathetic lies spread by the opposition and Labour back benchers who want Brown out. We're coming up to an election , and Gordon Brown has just managed to cling on to his position.
Do you consider yourself a typical 12-year old?  ;)

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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2010, 01:48:35 PM »
Do you consider yourself a typical 12-year old?  ;)
Absolutely not. ;)
And yes, I'd prefer not be a Facebok Slut.



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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2010, 02:14:03 PM »
Absolutely not. ;)
And yes, I'd prefer not be a Facebok Slut.
FaceBok: the shoes for your face.  :P

Anyway, back on topic (somewhat) I find it interesting how all numbers of people can state that "IE is insecure" and yet they cannot name a single security bug that can be exploited. Instead they post links to Anti-MS sites that provide charts and so forth about bug ratios, which is even more interesting since the actual Bug counts and bug reports that MS receives are only announced when they are patched. Some of the other Browsers issue "advisories" about such bugs before they are fixed I mean, sure, now everybody knows about the bug, but then again, now everybody knows about the bug- that means people can exploit it before it is patched.

People say that the MS policy of only announcing the security bugs in detail after they are patched is "bad" but they forget that announcing such bugs before they are fixed means that anybody can exploit them before they are patched.

Another "statistic" that people like to throw up is the bug-fixing ratio between the browsers- often IE is touted as having the most problems based on the fact that they fix the most bugs, which seems a tad skewed, on account of the fact that the metric is measuring the number of bugs that were fixed. essentially, that means that netscape is the most secure browser, since it hasn't had a single bug-fix in years! The fact is that the number of bugs fixed does not correspond to the number of bugs present, and even those charts that compare the number of fixed bugs don't weigh the importance of those bugs, and really provide no data on what the bugs were. Does the PNG rendering bug in IE6 get counted? Why? It has nothing to do with security! So the real problem is people trusting their sources to not do such things, while at the same time using Anti-MS and Anti-IE sites as a source, under the mistaken belief that such sources might not skew the numbers to be even more against IE, or, in some cases, IE actually can come out on top, so they choose some other metric.

"Metric" is the problem here. you cannot measure anything by a simple metric, or by even a combination of metrics. it's like trying to judge a persons character simply by their favourite TV show or the number of addition questions they can answer in an hour. They are just numbers and they are only meaningful if they are relevant. In this case those two values have absolutely nothing to do with a persons character, just as the various metrics used to measure browsers are completely irrelevant to measuring the browsers against each other.

This brings up another important point, which is why people have this innate need to measure things. I mean, instead of looking at various measurements and benchmarks for browser programs, just try out the *censored* things, as was stated before they don't take up enough space to be relevant and first-hand experience always outweighs even the most weighted measurements. You don't see people doing things like comparing the performance of, say, Fallout 3 versus Call of Duty. Sure, they use the games to measure Video performance (which in some cases is far more relevant a measurement) but you don't have people saying "well, fallout 3 is a little faster I think I'll buy that" basically, you dont choose a game based on performance considerations aside from "can I run it" just as you shouldn't choose a browser based on some weighted, biased chart, but rather on how much YOU like the browser. For example, it wouldn't matter if, say, Firefox was faster then chrome if people liked the "feel" of chrome- and it wouldn't matter if chromes javascript engine was 30 times faster the that of Firefoxes if people liked the feel of firefox. It's yet another meaningless metric that geek wannabe's like to pore over but is simply a redundant value when it comes to real-world use.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2010, 02:29:21 PM »
FaceBok: the shoes for your face.  :P
Right...

Anyway, back on topic (somewhat) I find it interesting how all numbers of people can state that "IE is insecure" and yet they cannot name a single security bug that can be exploited.
I suppose. I've never looked into it though. However, the mention of insecurity is enough to scare me off. I suppose the reason I'm so against IE is because I spend my entire life arguing with people who barely know how to switch their computers on about the reasons I use Firefox.
Do you consider yourself a typical 12-year old?  ;)
*censored*. Why don't they let me vote!?!

Meh. Spainish homework ftl.



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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2010, 02:32:42 PM »
What does this have to do with IE ? ?
Everything. Netscape was about to destroy MS. Or at least destroy the MS dream of total control of you web experience.

This is an old issue. If somebody robbed you, you would not want the money back after ten years. Right?

Now look at this face. Is this the face of a rascal?

http://geek9pm.com/pix/Bill-Gates.jpg

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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2010, 02:37:56 PM »
Geek you are taking my statement out of context...

Well on the news today, the british pm was called one of the world's biggest bullies. (Not exact wording, I really didn't watch much)
This was Helpmeh's Post....to which i replied:

Quote
What does this have to do with IE ? ?
" Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2010, 02:44:33 PM »

http://geek9pm.com/pix/Bill-Gates.jpg

Honestly I find it hard to believe that anyone found guilty of monopolizing actually feels bad about it. I sure wouldn't. Quite the opposite actually. :P

If it were a hacker they would be an underground hero. Or a Linux guru an Internet sensation.

You know over 90% of Linux programmers are not only paid but WELL paid? They tend to leave that out of open source arguments when going after MS... http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Skill=Linux/Salary

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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2010, 03:08:45 PM »
Geek you are taking my statement out of context...
This was Helpmeh's Post....to which i replied:
Hey. Leave off our Prime Minister  >:(



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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2010, 03:26:30 PM »
What are you talking about ? ?
" Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2010, 03:34:28 PM »
OK. I got it now.
 The British are bullies and that has nothing to do with IE.
They would be bullies even if IE did not exist. Is that right?  :P

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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2010, 03:40:15 PM »
Everything. Netscape was about to destroy MS.

Umm... no, they weren't.

First off, how would people  get it without a built in browser? Oh yes, it was paid at the time, just like IE.

Web browsing was becoming one of the basic tasks people performed. It only made sense to include it in the OS.

Also, you neglect to mention that Netscape was losing even before IE was built into the OS; probably because IE was a completely free download starting with Version 2 in mid-1995. It wasn't until over 3 years AFTER that netscape made any of their products free. (January 1998). maybe the fact that they were charging for something that was coming free with the OS and was at least as capable was what caused them problems? Also, it only became free on the same month they started the Mozilla project, so they essentially made it free and gave up at about that point in time, being swallowed by AOL about a year later.

Yes, they were "poised" to dominate. sure, they were losing already when MS integrated IE into a later version of Windows 95 as well as part of the shell update pack, but they could have easily bounced back from the fact that their browser was chock full of bugs and couldn't even animate GIFs properly for god's sake. I think it's probably because the browser sucked *censored* and was full of bugs, not to mention it remained a paid product long after IE was released for free (and Netscape's browser was far from their only product, so they could have afforded to make it free long before they did), that it fell into disuse, not because IE was integrated.

I mean, IE is still integrated in most installations, but nearly everybody I know uses another browser. If anything this proves that the reason netscape failed was simply because they couldn't compete with the new business model, the best they could come up with was adding a few useless tags like <blink> and <marquee> and releasing it as a new version.

OK. I got it now.
 The British are bullies and that has nothing to do with IE.
They would be bullies even if IE did not exist. Is that right?  :P

WHAT are you going on about now? what the heck does Helpmeh's quote have to do with IE? Nothing. It doesn't matter if you can find some obtuse reference that makes it relevant when you look through smoked glass, it's still completely off-topic, since AFAIK while Britain has been part of the EU since the mid-70's it still retains most of it's independence from the rest of the union (such as not using the euro). In fact, most things that you see on the news regarding the EU don't involve Britain at all.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2010, 10:11:44 PM »
You know over 90% of Linux programmers are not only paid but WELL paid? They tend to leave that out of open source arguments when going after MS... http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Skill=Linux/Salary
Hmm, who pays them?  Where does the money to pay them come from?  It isn't coming from all those Linux users who are using a free Linux distro, so where is it coming from? 

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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2010, 10:18:26 PM »
Hmm, who pays them?  Where does the money to pay them come from?  It isn't coming from all those Linux users who are using a free Linux distro, so where is it coming from? 

I should have Googled first. It's 75%, not 90.

Quote
The most striking aspect of the analysis, however, was where those lines of code originated from. 18% of contributions to the kernel were made without a specific corporate affiliation, suggesting true volunteer efforts. An additional 7% weren't classified. The remainder were from people working for specific companies in roles where developing that code was a major requirement. "75% of the code comes from people paid to do it," Corbet said.

The mere fact that Linux averages in getting more than 7,000 lines of code each day speaks volumes on the users’ devotion to the OS, but it doesn’t change the fact that they haven’t been doing it for free and/or because they like to. Our (Red) hat is off to those who indeed do it for free, whereas the rest will simply have to rethink the open-source community praise routines and face the bitter "no pay no play" truth.

Full article: 75% of Linux code now written by paid developers

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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2010, 11:33:26 PM »
Umm... no, they weren't.
First off, how would people  get it without a built in browser? Oh yes, it was paid at the time, just like IE.
Web browsing was becoming one of the basic tasks people performed. It only made sense to include it in the OS.
....
BC, where were you in 1992? CompuServe was a world wide professional network before the WWW became a household word!

A browser to download? No way, People  downloaded stuff over dial-up from somewhere back in the 1980's. Circa 1984  I was mailing Public Domain software for people that wanted to do BBS using CP/M on an Apple ][ **or a Kaypro. People could download back then without a Browser. Before people knew what PC-DOS would be.
MS wants you to believe they invented the PC and the Internet. Stop drinking that Kool Aid!
And yes, it was important to MS to destroy Netscape. You may not think so, but MS sure wanted to do just that and they did. Read your history!

** Footnote. MS made a great little Z80 card that would slip into an Apple ][ and let you boot CP/M. Greatest thing MS ever done. At that time.

Back to topic. The courts found MS guilty. Ms refused to fully comply with the orders. Time went by. The thing became a dead issue. Or so it seemed. The European court just wants MS to do what the should have done.

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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2010, 09:28:40 AM »
Quote
The European court just wants MS to do what the should have done.

The EU makes their living doing stuff like this. They don't care what MS or the people do as long as they are doing something they can get involved in.

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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2010, 09:33:10 AM »
They are now suing Google because of a YouTube vid posted about a person suffering from Down's syndrome...

I agree with EF .
Least their smart enough to know where the big money is...

Full Story...
" Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2010, 09:41:48 AM »
They have had their sights set on Google for a while now.

This is the big one which has recently become news.

Quote
Google under investigation for alleged breach of EU competition rules

The European Commission has launched an anti-trust investigation against Google after three online companies alleged that the internet giant’s search functions were penalising their businesses.

Low page rank? Call the lawyers... Ridiculous.

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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2010, 10:03:24 AM »
BC, where were you in 1992? CompuServe was a world wide professional network before the WWW became a household word!

A browser to download? No way, People  downloaded stuff over dial-up from somewhere back in the 1980's. Circa 1984  I was mailing Public Domain software for people that wanted to do BBS using CP/M on an Apple ][ **or a Kaypro. People could download back then without a Browser. Before people knew what PC-DOS would be.



For god's sake? BBS's don't download through HTTP, they download through other protocols, like XMODEM and KERMIT and whatnot.

Quote
Back to topic. The courts found MS guilty. Ms refused to fully comply with the orders. Time went by. The thing became a dead issue. Or so it seemed. The European court just wants MS to do what the should have done.

Quote
the EU reached a preliminary decision in the case in 2003 and ordered the company to offer both a version of Windows without Windows Media Player and the information necessary for competing networking software to interact fully with Windows desktops and servers.
They made a version without Windows Media Player. For the EU. they documented their network interfaces (how the *censored* else did SAMBA come about? Sure, they only really partially went through with it and simply released the Source code to windows Server 2003 to members of it's Work Group Server Protocol Program.

It's kind of funny. Linux Zealots sometimes say that "the source code can be used in a manual" but suddenly source code is no longer good enough to keep MS from getting fined 2 Million dollars a day.

personally, If I was Mr Gates, I would have just fingered the lot of them and withdrew from that market entirely.

And yes, there were some awkward claims made by Microsoft's lawyers (this is an important point, lawyers are not exactly the most trustworthy people in any situation).

Basically, the original thing the EU was screwing MS for was the "network interop" features. their already WERE windows networking compatible components for both Linux and Mac, and to say that they got their info through sheer trial and error is ridiculous.

If this was any other company for any other reason, people would be outraged. the EU says "no IE for the european union" so thy remove IE and release Windows 7 E (I believe Vista and XP had similar versions). But even though that was exactly what the EU asked for, apparently they decided to fine them again for not providing the obvious ballot box selection screen that was so obviously implied.

And of course, the whole "undocumented API" bull crap.

Basically, some douche takes dumpbin and looks at the output from a few system files. If there are functions that aren't fully documented, then... "It's undocumented and being used for MS gain".

For example, in windows 3.1, there was a entirely undocumented function in the "user" module. The function was called "BOZOSLIVEHERE" Obviously MS is using this for their exclusive benefit! And there were functions like "BEAR1" and "BEAR2" and "PIGLET1" and "PIGLET2" and "BUNNY1" and so forth. OBVIOUSLY because these exports are undocumented they MUST be being used by MS for competitive advantage! OH THE HORRORS!

The truth is actually quite the opposite. "BOZOSLIVEHERE" for example is an older version of the Edit Control Windows Procedure. Apparently with Windows 3.0 some developers decided to call right into this undocumented function (which at the time didn't even have a name) rather then call the DefWindowProc() Function. When MS found that people were doing this, they simply gave the function a less then flattering name, made the new procedure elsewhere, and let people decide for themselves wether they were bozos.

the BEAR, PIGLET, and BUNNY functions are all essentially unit testing routines. They were probably conditionally compiled and don't have anything in them.

And all the BS about the "undocumented Shell functions" is just that. I mean, 80% of those "competitive advantage" functions are basic string manipulation functions. the reason MS didn't document them is not for "competitive advantage" but rather because they assumed that programmers could write some basic utility functions. Heck, half of the bloody functions have direct equivalents in the C Run-time and the run-time of most languages.

Most of this "undocumented" talk simply comes form lazy programmers, who see the Commandbars in office and say "that's probably a windows control" and when they cannot find it documented they assume it is a windows control that isn't documented, without actually figuring out that it's a part of Office, not windows. If you want a commandbar/commandbars, you can write one yourself. It's not hard. Or, you can just purchase/download one of a number of libraries that allow you to create commandbars.

A Lot of MS programs have UI widgets that people think should be documented so they can use them. How about you stop being lazy and write them yourselves. The ListBar in Outlook, for example, was written by the developers of Outlook For Outlook. And it's not that hard to reproduce.

In fact, nearly every UI widget that MS has left "undocumented" can be recreated in Visual basic and half of the controls available there are simply wrappers around the already documented windows control (listview, treeview, etc)

Quote
And yes, it was important to MS to destroy Netscape. You may not think so, but MS sure wanted to do just that and they did. Read your history!

It's called, "The Price of capitalism" If you prefer democracy over communism or fascism then you better get used to it. better to have one or two monopolies in a free market then to have government sanctioned monopolies in things like Car Insurance and Natural Gas. The "government Sanctioned" part makes it perfectly legal, too.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2010, 11:00:09 AM »
The EU makes their living doing stuff like this. They don't care what MS or the people do as long as they are doing something they can get involved in.
What on earth? The EU is well within it's rights to defend the intrests of it's members
OK. I got it now.
 The British are bullies and that has nothing to do with IE.
They would be bullies even if IE did not exist. Is that right?  :P
Highly questionable.



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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2010, 11:16:45 AM »
What on earth? The EU is well within it's rights to defend the intrests of it's membersHighly questionable.


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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2010, 11:17:58 AM »
Quote
What on earth? The EU is well within it's rights to defend the intrests of it's members

right...

So when are they going to send you your cheque from the fines they collected?
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2010, 11:19:41 AM »
Any organization made up of lawyers always has the people at heart...

Yea, OK.

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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2010, 11:22:08 AM »
So when are they going to send you your cheque from the fines they collected?

And those fines are going to be passed on to the consumer one way or another.

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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2010, 11:25:03 AM »
And those fines are going to be passed on to the consumer one way or another.

So they're going to reduce the taxes on the consumer?

Because really I cannot see what they would be used for aside from some other crusade. Like, for example, against Google.

I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2010, 11:41:39 AM »
right...

So when are they going to send you your cheque from the fines they collected?
If a company has breached laws, they deserved to be punished. The EU have to right to sue Microsoft for breaching those laws if they are found guilty. The EU can then use that money to help other things. For example to aid people in this economic downturn. I don't see how this has got from browsers to acusing the British of being bullies, to crusading agianst the European Union.  >:(



BC_Programmer


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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2010, 01:09:50 PM »
If a company has breached laws, they deserved to be punished. The EU have to right to sue Microsoft for breaching those laws if they are found guilty. The EU can then use that money to help other things. For example to aid people in this economic downturn. I don't see how this has got from browsers to acusing the British of being bullies, to crusading agianst the European Union.  >:(

Which EU laws?
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2010, 01:19:32 PM »
Which EU laws?
It's viewed as anti-competitive and abusing their position. There are competition laws within the EU that try to stop one company from having an "unfair" share of the market to the expense of the others within that market. And your avoiding the second half of my post.



BC_Programmer


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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #34 on: February 24, 2010, 01:38:04 PM »
Quote
It's viewed as anti-competitive and abusing their position. There are competition laws within the EU that try to stop one company from having an "unfair" share of the market to the expense of the others within that market.
[citation needed] I asked, WHICH laws, I didn't ask for a broad description of what they might mean.
And your avoiding the second half of my post.



I'm not ignoring the second half, since it is pure assumption. Note the "can use" portion. Of course they CAN but <DO> they? probably not. In fact like any taxes over 50% of them probably go towards raises for themselves.

Quote
I don't see how this has got from browsers to acusing the British of being bullies

NOBODY anywhere in this thread has accused the British of being bullies.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

James1431997



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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2010, 02:01:47 PM »
NOBODY anywhere in this thread has accused the British of being bullies.
OK. I got it now.
 The British are bullies and that has nothing to do with IE.
They would be bullies even if IE did not exist. Is that right?  :P
Then again, that does appear to be a joke.
[citation needed] I asked, WHICH laws, I didn't ask for a broad description of what they might mean.
I'm a twelve year old, not a legal expert. I don't happen to know the name and content of every EU act or motion. I only know what I can pick up from the news.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 02:12:18 PM by James1431997 »



patio

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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #36 on: February 24, 2010, 05:55:46 PM »
Then learn the difference between what's been posted in a Forum as matter of opinion and what laws are...
Be prepared to defend your position if you want to come out on top of these opinionated little squabbles.

Many out there will simply state generalities such as " MS broke the Law" or "they abused their market position" etc. etc.

One cannot abuse a market position...it is earned.
When the smaller fish realise this that is where non-sensical quotes like that come from...
And usually shortly thereafter the lawsuits...

And they have little or no basis in fact.
" Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

evilfantasy

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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #37 on: February 24, 2010, 06:04:53 PM »
How would you feel if you implemented a business plan that millions/billions of people bought in to just to have an outside organization translate laws for the sole purpose of cutting into your hard earned profits?

It's not MS or Googles fault that everyone uses their product. They are building better mouse wheels and some people just aren't far enough ahead of the game or have the funding to challenge their position. So they take the fallback approach which is to call in the bloodhounds. <- This is purely my opinion. ;)

patio

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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #38 on: February 24, 2010, 06:39:41 PM »
Quote
It's viewed as anti-competitive and abusing their position. There are competition laws within the EU that try to stop one company from having an "unfair" share of the market to the expense of the others within that market

Ahhhhh...
You have fallen into the trap of discussing Socialism...
I didn't know the EU had quite made the formal switch...though i've suspected it for awhile.
" Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

evilfantasy

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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #39 on: February 24, 2010, 10:15:24 PM »
A good article on the Google case. HERE

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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #40 on: February 24, 2010, 10:51:33 PM »
A good article on the Google case. HERE
Nice catch. It is a new PCWorld article by  By David Coursey, PCWorld
Quote
With Google now in the crosshairs of a potential European Union antitrust investigation, it may be useful to remember that generally only successful companies get investigated. In that context, an anti-trust action may be the sincerest form a flattery that regulators and competitors can offer a business...
So then, maybe the attention  actually helps the big companies to have a platform to advertise new products and services.

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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #41 on: March 04, 2010, 02:47:50 PM »
I just read some interesting thoughts on this new www.browserchoice.eu website.

Look at the browser choices, which are randomized with each visit, and consider what the real choices are.

  • Google Chrome
  • Microsoft Internet Explorer
  • Mozilla Firefox
  • Apple Safari
  • Opera
  • Maxathon
  • GreenBrowser
  • K-Melon
  • Slim Browser
  • Flock
  • Avant Browser
.
Notice anything? Maybe it's that the majority of browsers shown to users to select from are Internet Explorer based. Internet Explorer, Maxathon, GreenBrowser, Slim Browser and Avant Browser are all built on the same technology as IE. Trident. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trident_%28layout_engine%29

Game point goes to MS. :rofl:




patio

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Re: MS to offer browser options in Europe.
« Reply #42 on: March 04, 2010, 02:53:21 PM »
I've never judged anyone by what browser they select.....

Toes crossed.
" Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

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