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Author Topic: Pwn2Own hack topples Firefox on Windows  (Read 17553 times)

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Quantos



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Re: Pwn2Own hack topples Firefox on Windows
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2010, 09:53:08 AM »
When FreeBSD is used by people without something to prove let me know.
I use a copy of it as a coaster, it works great for that.
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Re: Pwn2Own hack topples Firefox on Windows
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2010, 09:55:22 AM »
I use a copy of it as a coaster, it works great for that.

Wait... why would you need to burn something to a disc to use it as a coaster, anyway?
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

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Re: Pwn2Own hack topples Firefox on Windows
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2010, 09:57:06 AM »
Wait... why would you need to burn something to a disc to use it as a coaster, anyway?
It's all in the details BC.  It just shows a lack of preparation if you use a blank disc.
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Re: Pwn2Own hack topples Firefox on Windows
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2010, 09:58:51 AM »
It's all in the details BC.  It just shows a lack of preparation if you use a blank disc.

ahh

well, I heard that some coaster company called "AOL" was giving away free coasters for quite a number of years.  ;D
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Re: Pwn2Own hack topples Firefox on Windows
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2010, 06:19:29 PM »
Interesting article on the "coaster" company.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AOL_CDs

Quantos



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Re: Pwn2Own hack topples Firefox on Windows
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2010, 06:23:41 PM »
ahh

well, I heard that some coaster company called "AOL" was giving away free coasters for quite a number of years.  ;D
Yes indeed, I had a whole selection of them.  They actually lasted a lot longer than my OS/2 Warp coaster set did.
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Re: Pwn2Own hack topples Firefox on Windows
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2010, 10:19:51 PM »
When they can hack through a secured firefox on a hardened BSD system, let me know.
Or on a Linux system.

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Re: Pwn2Own hack topples Firefox on Windows
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2010, 11:05:37 PM »
Or on a Linux system.

hardened, of course. the defaults on Linux (and I presume, [Free/Open]BSD) are a lot more secure then most windows installations. MS is certainly doing better since XP SP2 with proper selection of defaults. They finally realized, "hmm, maybe everybody doesn't need to have terminal server running by default" and other silly services that most people would never need or use, but were a security risk.

On the other hand, Windows Vista and 7 can still run nearly any properly written Win32 program; AFAIK Linux (and Mac OS) are less forgiving in that regard. There is certainly some leeway there as well, though.

It's not just backward compatibility of public interfaces that Windows provides, either. Sometimes application developers rely on totally undocumented behaviour. Since, inevitably, a program that worked fine with a previous version of windows suddenly not working on a new version (when the windows developers so foolishly think they can change the undocumented internals) is blamed on the new version of windows, it usually falls to MS to fix it (since the program developer already has the customers money in most cases).

Now, that being said, there is no such thing as an undocumented function in Linux or FreeBSD, since, at the very least, the source is available. On the other hand, that doesn't mean that such functions won't change in future versions; but when that happens it usually falls to the programs original creator  that was calling the function to fix the issue (which is alright, since it was almost certainly free, so the developer doesn't "already have their customers money").

So I guess, in a way, Microsoft, while basically saying "don't use this function" for a lot  of stuff, will "fix" the issues that arise of somebody does if that somebody's product is popular enough; if Wordperfect, for example, crashed catastrophically when tested on 98 but worked fine on 95, MS would usually fix the problem, not Corel- simply because the problem, in many users eyes, was the new version of windows.

It's really more a religious issue in a lot of ways; as can be illustrated easily via the comments on the blog post I linked to. Each Operating System, (Mac, Linux & BSD and variants, Windows) subscribes to a different paradigm, and these paradigms clash on a lot of issues- including the backward compatibility one illustrated in the blog post. It is these paradigm shifts that drive a wedge between devotees of each sub-culture.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

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Re: Pwn2Own hack topples Firefox on Windows
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2010, 03:29:45 AM »
I use a copy of it as a coaster, it works great for that.

Chances are you have no experience using any BSD system.

Using it as a coaster will make it stick to your coffee table or desk and ruin it.
I take it that you failed physics.

hardened, of course. the defaults on Linux (and I presume, [Free/Open]BSD) are a lot more secure then most windows installations. MS is certainly doing better since XP SP2 with proper selection of defaults. They finally realized, "hmm, maybe everybody doesn't need to have terminal server running by default" and other silly services that most people would never need or use, but were a security risk.

On the other hand, Windows Vista and 7 can still run nearly any properly written Win32 program; AFAIK Linux (and Mac OS) are less forgiving in that regard. There is certainly some leeway there as well, though.

It's not just backward compatibility of public interfaces that Windows provides, either. Sometimes application developers rely on totally undocumented behaviour. Since, inevitably, a program that worked fine with a previous version of windows suddenly not working on a new version (when the windows developers so foolishly think they can change the undocumented internals) is blamed on the new version of windows, it usually falls to MS to fix it (since the program developer already has the customers money in most cases).

Now, that being said, there is no such thing as an undocumented function in Linux or FreeBSD, since, at the very least, the source is available. On the other hand, that doesn't mean that such functions won't change in future versions; but when that happens it usually falls to the programs original creator  that was calling the function to fix the issue (which is alright, since it was almost certainly free, so the developer doesn't "already have their customers money").

So I guess, in a way, Microsoft, while basically saying "don't use this function" for a lot  of stuff, will "fix" the issues that arise of somebody does if that somebody's product is popular enough; if Wordperfect, for example, crashed catastrophically when tested on 98 but worked fine on 95, MS would usually fix the problem, not Corel- simply because the problem, in many users eyes, was the new version of windows.

It's really more a religious issue in a lot of ways; as can be illustrated easily via the comments on the blog post I linked to. Each Operating System, (Mac, Linux & BSD and variants, Windows) subscribes to a different paradigm, and these paradigms clash on a lot of issues- including the backward compatibility one illustrated in the blog post. It is these paradigm shifts that drive a wedge between devotees of each sub-culture.

The code has to be submitted and tested. The 32bit Windows applications are a different set of system calls, dependencies, and other general functions. This is for emulation. As for using older programs and binaries on a nix system, install the required components.
There are 32 bit system libraries for 64 bit systems; but, this is only for x86/64 systems. You want something else such as sparc on powerpc or mips  on arm, then use qemu.

Development is open and the results are published to the public. If there is change, all can see it.

You are talking about a function but such term does not exist. If something is broken in the FreeBSD ports tree, it won't build.
If a security flaw is found, it is published.
If it's OpenBSD, it is made to be more secure.
The other two beasts are their own monsters.

You should give FreeBSD a spin.
Downside is you will have to follow a console install at first.
Upside is that you will learn a system from using it.


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Re: Pwn2Own hack topples Firefox on Windows
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2010, 03:50:28 AM »
You should give FreeBSD a spin.
Downside is you will have to follow a console install at first.
Upside is that you will learn a system from using it.

I downloaded a DVD ISO the other day... don't have a spare system, but I'm installing it in a VM as I type this  :).
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Re: Pwn2Own hack topples Firefox on Windows
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2010, 09:14:31 AM »
You should give FreeBSD a spin.
Downside is you will have to follow a console install at first.
Upside is that you will learn a system from using it.
I'm very interested in trying FreeBSD. Does the console us BASH commands like Linux? If so I shouldn't have  too many problems. And I hardly ever see software available for it, or can it use Linux software (.debs)?

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Re: Pwn2Own hack topples Firefox on Windows
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2010, 11:33:53 AM »
I'm very interested in trying FreeBSD. Does the console us BASH commands like Linux?

you can install BASH as the shell... as far as I can tell that's the default.

Quote
And I hardly ever see software available for it, or can it use Linux software (.debs)?

Don't know about the package type it takes, but there isn't any shortage of software.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

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Re: Pwn2Own hack topples Firefox on Windows
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2010, 03:57:28 PM »

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Re: Pwn2Own hack topples Firefox on Windows
« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2010, 04:16:08 PM »
Chances are you have no experience using any BSD system.

Using it as a coaster will make it stick to your coffee table or desk and ruin it.
I take it that you failed physics.


Wrong on both counts.  This one's for you.

[recovering disk space - old attachment deleted by admin]
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Re: Pwn2Own hack topples Firefox on Windows
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2010, 07:32:27 PM »
Quantos.... seriously, how is that productive...
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.