Windows Vista Keeps Freezing/Crashing

[psufootball]

Alright so I have a problem with my laptop.  It's a Dell Inspiron 1545 with Windows Vista Home Premium, 3 GBs of RAM, and 134 GB of hard drive space (62.8 GB free).  It's just over a year old, I got it last June.  And wouldn't you know, I only got a 1-year warranty and it was perfect up until about a week ago.

So here's the thing, it still runs flawlessly.  As fast as ever, does everything I want it to.  But then if I leave it idle for a bit and come back like a half hour later, I'm screwed.  It will have not been touched for half an hour, I come back, move the mouse, click on Firefox or whatever, and that's it.  Everything just freezes.  Sometimes I can still move my mouse (of course clicking it does nothing) but sometimes I can't move it.  None of the keys do anything.  The only thing I can do is either unplug the power and take out the battery or hold down the power button for 6 seconds for a manual shut down.  Also, when I re-boot it and it brings up the desktop, I gotta make sure I'm there when it loads up because it seems if after the desktop and everything loads if I'm not there in like 5 minutes it'll crash/freeze when I get there and try to open a program.

It's not just Firefox that is causing the crashing.  If I press the button that makes the start menu pop up after leaving it idle, that will make it freeze.  If I click My Computer after leaving it idle, that will make it freeze.

I have already gone to Control Panel >>> Mobile PC >>> Change When Computer Sleeps and set it to Never sleep or Hibernate, but that didn't solve the problem.

I know some people might say it's a virus or whatever but I really don't think it is.  I have lots of protection on my computer, Norton, Avira, MalwareBytes, Ad-Aware, and I think a few other things to. 

When I first had this problem about a week ago it was just freezing randomly while I was using it.  Then I did a system restore and now it's freezing after I leave it idle.

This is just so frustrating because it still runs perfect (I'm typing this from it right now!) but I can't go on like this.  I just don't know what to do anymore.  In the past few weeks my car has had issues, the furniture on my back patio has gotten ruined and my microwave has, literally, burst into flames.  I don't have the money to take it somewhere to get it fixed right now and I need it fixed ASAP. 

[JJ 3000]

I know some people might say it's a virus or whatever but I really don't think it is.  I have lots of protection on my computer, Norton, Avira, MalwareBytes, Ad-Aware, and I think a few other things to. 

You're running two anti-virus programs. Two can be just as bad, if not worse, than none at all. You need to remove either Norton or Avira. I'd suggest dumping Norton.

[psufootball]

I knew someone would say that.  Look, I know you're trying to help but I'm not interested in discussing my anti-virus options now.  I've had both for a while with no problems but this freezing/crashing started like a week ago.  I don't know why having two anti-virus problems would cause it to crash/freeze when left idle, after months of having them work fine.

And I'm not going to dump Norton, which was paid for (1-year free) for Avira (free version).  I hate Norton too but it was free, after the 1-year subscription to it is up I'm switching to Kaspersky.

[Allan]

1) Having two AV's running resident simultaneously utilizes an unnecessary amount of system resources. This can cause any number of issues, including freezing - especially if they run simultaneous scans. It is also possible for two resident AV's to conflict with one another.

2) You don't get to pick and choose the advice you receive. If you don't like it, you can ignore it. But don't tell us what you are and are not willing to hear. More important, it's easy enough to disable one simply as a test even if you choose to keep both running after the test (though I assure you, that would be a mistake).

[psufootball]

Alright I'll try uninstalling Avira and see if that helps.

My apologies for being rude in my previous post, if it's any compensation you have a great avatar. 

[Allan]

You don't need to uninstall it - just disable it from starting with the system. And send my regard to Joe Paterno.

[psufootball]

You don't need to uninstall it - just disable it from starting with the system. And send my regard to Joe Paterno.

Actually it had been annoying me in a couple different ways so uninstalling it probably was the best thing.  I'll leave it idle for like half an hour to see if it worked.

And I'm glad someone understands the PSU, are you a grad?

[Allan]

Not from there, no.

[psufootball]

Alright so after uninstalling Avira and restarting my computer I let it sit for like 30-45 minutes.  I came back, clicked the start button (or whatever they call it now in Vista) and it froze/crashed.  Anyone have any ideas of what I should do now?  I can provide any details you might need.

[Allan]

Okay. We need to do a clean boot to see if the problem is hardware or software related. You have two choices. The easiest way is to boot to safe mode and see if the problem occurs there. Alternatively, you can use msconfig to do a selective startup (disable everything from loading) and reboot and let it sit. If the problem still occurs, it's almost certainly hardware related. If not, it's probably some process loading with the system.

BTW, my guess would be hardware - most likely ram. Have you done a diagnostic on the ram?

[coastie65]

OK. He said he had Avira, Norton ( A known resource hog ), AdAware " And I think a few other things Too" ( I am assuming that Malewarebytes is on demand only, which is fine). AdAware should go as that thing isn't all that great either. As an example, I have Avast! installed for my A/V and Webroot Spysweeper as my antispyware, which are running real time. I have Malewarebytes and SUPERantispyware as on demand scanners and they do not run actively. As has been stated, you can have too much of that stuff installed ( you should only have 1 Anti Virus app running actively ). Another thing that comes to mind is what is the lappy sitting on? There could be a temp issue ( cooling pad is preferred ).

[Allan]

First of all, there's no such thing as "too much stuff installed". It doesn't matter what's installed, only what's running. As for Ad Aware, that's old school and is essentially useless - I agree.  And please, stop with the "known resource hog". Norton products have made huge advances in recent years and are no longer the excess baggage they used to be.

[psufootball]

Okay. We need to do a clean boot to see if the problem is hardware or software related. You have two choices. The easiest way is to boot to safe mode and see if the problem occurs there. Alternatively, you can use msconfig to do a selective startup (disable everything from loading) and reboot and let it sit. If the problem still occurs, it's almost certainly hardware related. If not, it's probably some process loading with the system.

BTW, my guess would be hardware - most likely ram. Have you done a diagnostic on the ram?

Alright I'll try booting in safe mode.

And I'm sorry but I don't really understand what you mean by doing a diagnostic on the RAM?

OK. He said he had Avira, Norton ( A known resource hog ), AdAware " And I think a few other things Too" ( I am assuming that Malewarebytes is on demand only, which is fine). AdAware should go as that thing isn't all that great either. As an example, I have Avast! installed for my A/V and Webroot Spysweeper as my antispyware, which are running real time. I have Malewarebytes and SUPERantispyware as on demand scanners and they do not run actively. As has been stated, you can have too much of that stuff installed ( you should only have 1 Anti Virus app running actively ). Another thing that comes to mind is what is the lappy sitting on? There could be a temp issue ( cooling pad is preferred ).

If uninstalling Avira didn't stop it, I don't think getting rid of Ad-Aware is going to make much difference but I'll close it anyway.  And it's sitting on a cooling pad...

[psufootball]

Okay so I booted in safe mode, waited a bit, wiggled the mouse and it did not freeze.  Just to make sure I waited a bit longer, then came back and it still worked without freezing.

So what does this mean, some of my software is causing it to crash?

[Allan]

Open msconfig and on the startup tab choose "selective startup" (disable everything) and reboot. If the problem does not recur start adding items back one or two at a time, rebooting after each, until the problem recurs and you'll have identified the offending process. It's time consuming, but it should work.

[psufootball]

Alright thank you very much!

Any ideas on what things to add back first?

[johngetter]

Ok knowing that 2 antivirus programs are running can
bogg down your computer over time more than you know it. But your specs are well and should able to handle it but i dont understand

[johngetter]

Open msconfig and on the startup tab choose "selective startup" (disable everything) and reboot. If the problem does not recur start adding items back one or two at a time, rebooting after each, until the problem recurs and you'll have identified the offending process. It's time consuming, but it should work.

You must be carefull when you disable start-up items. I disabled all start up services and it crashed and I lost 250GB of personal Data. I wouldnt disable them all. Disable the ones you know,

[killerb255]

Alright thank you very much!

Any ideas on what things to add back first?

Nope, just pick one, add it back, test, and confirm.  If it crashes your PC, then it's probably the suspect.  If not, then add another one.

[psufootball]

Ok knowing that 2 antivirus programs are running can
bogg down your computer over time more than you know it. But your specs are well and should able to handle it but i dont understand

Well now I'm only running Norton and MalwareBytes anyway, although we've pretty much established that's not the problem here.

You must be carefull when you disable start-up items. I disabled all start up services and it crashed and I lost 250GB of personal Data. I wouldnt disable them all. Disable the ones you know,

Well when I disabled all of them it did in fact slow down, and was "Not Responding" for like 30 seconds or so but then it got them all.

Nope, just pick one, add it back, test, and confirm.  If it crashes your PC, then it's probably the suspect.  If not, then add another one.

Alright well I've gotten through like 4 right now, still no crashing.  There's like 25 or so total.  Fun, fun, fun. 

So basically my goal here is to find the culprit and then uninstall or disable it.  But what if the one causing it to crash is something important like part of the OS or something, must I re-install Windows?

[killerb255]

Alright well I've gotten through like 4 right now, still no crashing.  There's like 25 or so total.  Fun, fun, fun. 

Welcome to our world.   Imagine doing this for a living!

So basically my goal here is to find the culprit and then uninstall or disable it.  But what if the one causing it to crash is something important like part of the OS or something, must I re-install Windows?

We'll cross that bridge when the time comes.

[Allan]

Ok knowing that 2 antivirus programs are running can
bogg down your computer over time more than you know it. But your specs are well and should able to handle it but i dont understand

Ignore this genius.

[Allan]

You must be carefull when you disable start-up items. I disabled all start up services and it crashed and I lost 250GB of personal Data. I wouldnt disable them all. Disable the ones you know,

Ignore this too.

[psufootball]

Alright I've found the culprit.  The full title is-

Microsoft .NET Framework NGEN v4.0.30319_X86

Just to be sure I enabled everything again but disabled the .net framework one and then left it idle.  Came back and it didn't crash.  I messed around with it a few other ways to and it was always this one that was the key to whether it crashed or not.

Now the thing is... I really have no idea what it is.  I know the other day I needed to update it to run an application but I downloaded the update right from Microsoft. 

So I guess now what I'm wondering is what is it, what important functions do I use it for, and how do I fix it.

[Allan]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=what+is+.net+framework&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS312US316&ie=UTF-8&aq=0&oq=what+is+.net+

[psufootball]

Alright that's 2/3. 

Lastly, how do I fix it, must I reinstall?

[Allan]

You can uninstall Microsoft .net framework using Add/Remove. Then download and install the latest version from here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/netframework/aa569263.aspx

[psufootball]

Alright thank you very much for your help over the past few days. 

[Allan]

You're very welcome. Stop back and let us know how things work out.

[BC_Programmer]

You can uninstall Microsoft .net framework using Add/Remove. Then download and install the latest version from here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/netframework/aa569263.aspx

There are several versions of the .NET framework and they are all independent- that is, they are not cumulative.

there is .NET 1.0, .NET 1.1, .NET 2.0, .NET 3.0, .NET 3.5, and .NET 4.0. These correspond to various released of Visual Studio starting with the initial release of Visual Studio .NET (Visual Studio 7) through to the most recent version, 2010.

In order to run a program compiled with Visual Studio 7, you need the .NET Framework 1.0 installed. (I think they might run with 1.10) but having version 2.0, 3.5, 4.0, etc installed doesn't let it run- you must have 1.0 or 1.1 installed.

The same applies for applications compiled to run on the other frameworks. You pretty much need the same version installed on your machine.

Windows XP came with 1.0 installed (or, at least, it came with the installer for 1.0 on the CD). Windows Vista has 2.0 pre-installed, and Windows Server 2008 comes with either 3.0 or 3.5 depending on the release date.

Of course you can install even the latest version into Windows XP. Some versions can even be installed in Windows 9x.

The way I've always tended to think of it is similar to how Java is. a Java program is compiled into an otherwise useless class file that contains what is called "java bytecode" this java bytecode is interpreted by the java runtime which emulates a virtual "java" CPU. This allows the actions of the program to be monitored every step of the way and appropriate blocks and exceptions to occur when it tries to do anything it shouldn't. With Java, when you install the Java runtime, it installs two things: the runtime "program" and plugins themselves, as well as the Java Class library, which provides the base set of functionality for all java programs.

Equally, .NET programs are compiled to something called IL (Intermediate Language). The idea is to allow the programs to be optimized based on what CPU it is running on- so if you run Program X on a Super speedy hyperthreaded machine, the CLR (the Common Language Runtime) can compile the program to optimized machine code  Specifically for that processor. The same goes for nearly any other processor- the best optimizations are performed based on the current environment. The .NET Framework installs the CLR (the actual virtual machine) as well as the .NET framework classes themselves, which provide the base functionality for .NET programs.

returning to the problem at hand, "NGEN" is the "native image generator". Therefore, my guess is that the background process detects whenever a .NET program runs and compiles it from IL to native machine code on the spot and then places it in the global assembly cache. If this is the case, it is absolutely safe to remove it from your startup list, as the function it performs is purely optional.

[psufootball]

You're very welcome. Stop back and let us know how things work out.

I certainly will, and I plan to remain active on this forum. 

There are several versions of the .NET framework and they are all independent- that is, they are not cumulative.

there is .NET 1.0, .NET 1.1, .NET 2.0, .NET 3.0, .NET 3.5, and .NET 4.0. These correspond to various released of Visual Studio starting with the initial release of Visual Studio .NET (Visual Studio 7) through to the most recent version, 2010.

In order to run a program compiled with Visual Studio 7, you need the .NET Framework 1.0 installed. (I think they might run with 1.10) but having version 2.0, 3.5, 4.0, etc installed doesn't let it run- you must have 1.0 or 1.1 installed.

The same applies for applications compiled to run on the other frameworks. You pretty much need the same version installed on your machine.

Windows XP came with 1.0 installed (or, at least, it came with the installer for 1.0 on the CD). Windows Vista has 2.0 pre-installed, and Windows Server 2008 comes with either 3.0 or 3.5 depending on the release date.

Of course you can install even the latest version into Windows XP. Some versions can even be installed in Windows 9x.

The way I've always tended to think of it is similar to how Java is. a Java program is compiled into an otherwise useless class file that contains what is called "java bytecode" this java bytecode is interpreted by the java runtime which emulates a virtual "java" CPU. This allows the actions of the program to be monitored every step of the way and appropriate blocks and exceptions to occur when it tries to do anything it shouldn't. With Java, when you install the Java runtime, it installs two things: the runtime "program" and plugins themselves, as well as the Java Class library, which provides the base set of functionality for all java programs.

Equally, .NET programs are compiled to something called IL (Intermediate Language). The idea is to allow the programs to be optimized based on what CPU it is running on- so if you run Program X on a Super speedy hyperthreaded machine, the CLR (the Common Language Runtime) can compile the program to optimized machine code  Specifically for that processor. The same goes for nearly any other processor- the best optimizations are performed based on the current environment. The .NET Framework installs the CLR (the actual virtual machine) as well as the .NET framework classes themselves, which provide the base functionality for .NET programs.

returning to the problem at hand, "NGEN" is the "native image generator". Therefore, my guess is that the background process detects whenever a .NET program runs and compiles it from IL to native machine code on the spot and then places it in the global assembly cache. If this is the case, it is absolutely safe to remove it from your startup list, as the function it performs is purely optional.

Wow, just wow.  Thanks for the very detailed answer.  All I really knew before this was that it had to do with Visual Studio, and it's comforting to know that it's safe to remove it from the start-up list.

[BC_Programmer]

I have a tendency to be verbose. I think I'm rather infamous for it even. 

[psufootball]

F***!  Just starting having this problem again.  Guess it's back to typing msconfig and enabling things one at a time....

[johngetter]

Ignore this too.

I wouldnt work at bestbuy with helping people with there computer programs if i was stupid. I wouldnt even be here. Dont judge other people. It makes yourself look bad. You must be some fat pig on your computer having all the brains.

Dont judge its idiotic

[BC_Programmer]

I wouldnt work at bestbuy with helping people with there computer programs if i was stupid.

Actually at best buy that is one of the many qualifications.
most "Geek Squad" people are just salesmen with limited computer expertise - they're not there to fix your computer, they're there to fix your pocketbooks, by lightening the load. Half of the time they simply go to some free help site- you know, like <this> one, and get somebody to pretty much clean it for free, despite the fact that they are the ones getting paid to do it. Despicable.

And then there is of course the whole stealing of SysInternals tools a while back. Not a bunch I'd like to ever deal with.

[psufootball]

Off-topic but for the record I've walked into Best Buy quite a few times and known more about what I was buying than the employees.  Yeah to get hired you have to know about computers, but many employees there have minimal knowledge.

Anyway does anyone have any suggestions on which ones I should disable first this time?  I should have kept more careful records of it... ugh I feel so stupid...

[Allan]

I wouldnt work at bestbuy with helping people with there computer programs if i was stupid. I wouldnt even be here. Dont judge other people. It makes yourself look bad. You must be some fat pig on your computer having all the brains.

Dont judge its idiotic

1) 6' 3", 185 - war vet, ex football player, golfer, IQ 141. As usual, you're wrong.
2) Pretty much all of your posts are useless
3) Nice command of the English language

[psufootball]

I wouldnt work at bestbuy with helping people with there computer programs if i was stupid. I wouldnt even be here. Dont judge other people. It makes yourself look bad. You must be some fat pig on your computer having all the brains.

Dont judge its idiotic

Look dude, even if you were trying to help at first, what you're doing now is just getting in the way of me getting my computer fixed which was... you know... the reason I started this thread.  If you truly felt you were very knowledgeable about computers, you would know, as would the people around you.  You wouldn't need to prove it to folks on the internet.  The fact that you're trying to push upon us that you are some computer genius just because you work at Best Buy only makes your advice to me look more meaningless.   

Anyway, since other than going through trial and error there really isn't anything else to tell me, and this is already off-topic, what branch of the military did you serve in Allan?  I think the ex-football part is BS though, you already said you didn't go to PSU. 

[patio]

Ummmm  Ohio State has produced some pretty good football players....

[psufootball]

Ummmm  Ohio State has produced some pretty good football players....

Pffffffftt... not in this universe. 

[Allan]

I was in the army and I am an ex-football player, though certainly not professional nor PSU (and as much as you'd like to think otherwise, there ARE other possibilities ).. That's as much personal info as I'm going to reveal on this or any other forum

[Salmon Trout]

Forgive us non-Americans for yawning a lot and dropping off to sleep around now...

[Allan]

Forgive us non-Americans for yawning a lot and dropping off to sleep around now...

No problem 

[patio]

I was in the army and I am an ex-football player, though certainly not professional nor PSU (and as much as you'd like to think otherwise, there ARE other possibilities ).. That's as much personal info as I'm going to reveal on this or any other forum

So you went to UCLA then huh ? ?