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Author Topic: installing/using Linux  (Read 15372 times)

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Linux711



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Re: installing/using Linux
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2011, 05:33:26 PM »
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It's come far but it still hardly compares UI wise to even windows 95

Not true at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QokOwvPxrE

Other than that
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BC_Programmer, This is one of those times I agree with you.

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IMHO, you really should start with Puppy Linux.

Puppy Linux is good, but I would try something more up to date like Ubuntu or Kubuntu (the KDE version of ubuntu (just look it up)).

I think the two most major differences (or things you may not like) when switching to Linux is the structure of the filesystem and the inability to play 3D windows games on it. I mean it is possible to play games on it with some emulators, but you won't get the level of performance you would with windows. So if you are a gamer, probably best to stick with windows. If you're just someone who likes to check e-mail, surf, youtube, etc. then yes, I think you should try it out.
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BC_Programmer


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Re: installing/using Linux
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2011, 06:00:21 PM »
Not true at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QokOwvPxrE
This is a joke right?

I meant usability wise, not crazy fancy useless crap-wise.

I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

mrlmohan

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Re: installing/using Linux
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2011, 12:23:31 AM »
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everyOS needs to be properly secured by the user or whomever installed it
This is true but crackers will find loopholes in everything no OS is entirely secure.If not what is the need of updating

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Re: installing/using Linux
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2011, 12:33:58 AM »
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I was arguing against your FUD that Linux is "safer" which implies that it is inherently more secure, which it isn't.
LINUX IS SECURE THAN WINDOWS http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/202452/why_linux_is_more_secure_than_windows.html

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Re: installing/using Linux
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2011, 12:36:18 AM »
This is true but crackers will find loopholes in everything no OS is entirely secure.If not what is the need of updating
Your use of the term "hacker" is not well received by many. Those e who make it their objective to spread malicious software are vandals and criminals.
Their is a lot of evil gain made by compromising the security of personal computers. It is easier than stealing automobiles and  greater profits can be realized. Windows is a popular target because so many people use it.

This information is old, but the problem has not become lessor.
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Cost of Malicious Software Attacks Tops $11 Billion — Interhack
http://web.interhack.com/news/n2001/malcost
Cost of Malicious Software Attacks Tops $11 Billion .....

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Re: installing/using Linux
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2011, 12:50:25 AM »
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Your use of the term "hacker" is not well received by many
I think I used the term crackers...not hacker.There is a big difference between the terms hacker and a cracker.http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html#what_is

BC_Programmer


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Re: installing/using Linux
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2011, 01:02:08 AM »
LINUX IS SECURE THAN WINDOWS http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/202452/why_linux_is_more_secure_than_windows.html
This is a joke right?

This is true but crackers will find loopholes in everything no OS is entirely secure.If not what is the need of updating

they are called "exploits" and oddly enough Linux's track record is worse than Windows in that regard; a quick check of Secunia makes this abundantly clear.  For exploits, security and securing a system is really only a tertiary concern- to reduce the surface area (eg: if you don't run a httpd, you won't be vulnerable to exploits in the httpd). Which is applicable across all platforms. not running a httpd (or similar services) also means that those services don't need to be properly locked down, since they aren't running (thus less chance for human error during configuration).

Your use of the term "hacker" is not well received by many.

he said "cracker".... you even quoted it that way.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

mrlmohan

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Re: installing/using Linux
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2011, 01:23:39 AM »
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This is a joke right?
Why are you always saying this?? really do you think its a joke?If you cannot accept the truth, then you start to say "This is a joke right?" and "This is a joke right"?
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they are called "exploits"
so what? exploits are used in vulnerabilities and loopholes.
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he said "cracker"
he said "hacker". I said "cracker"
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Linux's track record is worse than Windows in that regard
I don't agree.It may be true in the case of servers.but when it compare with the usage of an average person,It is not correct.

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Re: installing/using Linux
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2011, 02:20:37 AM »
Yes, he said cracker.  :-[

As to why one OS is more better than another, a lot depends on the implementation.

For example; Compare a spots car to a leopard. Which is faster?
Well, the sports car must have a good surface for to run on.
What wail the leopard be given to even up the advantage?
The fast leopard

Next, a more serious consideration.
Why Linux Is More Secure Than Windows -PCWorld
The reasons he gives are not what you may have thought.

BC_Programmer


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Re: installing/using Linux
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2011, 02:25:40 AM »
Why are you always saying this?? really do you think its a joke?If you cannot accept the truth, then you start to say "This is a joke right?" and "This is a joke right"?
Because it isn't the truth. I actually had a long diatribe on how utterly ridiculous the effects showcased in the youtube video Linux711 linked, how they don't add actual usability and in fact just add pointless graphical effects that have absolutely no positive impact on usability (which is fine in moderation, but the video is loaded with them) I mean, really- what intrinsic value does having a dock show as cubes provide? Nothing. It's a pointless effect. Same can be said with the window close animation where it dissapears in a puff if smoke. again, useless for usability purposes.


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so what? exploits are used in vulnerabilities and loopholes.
Yes. very good. That's exactly what I said. My point is that properly securing a system is not done with exploits in mind; only potential exploits; and the thing is potential exploits exist in all Operating systems (as you implied) and the OS chosen has absolutely no bearing. But, when you look at the histories and still unpatched exploits in each OS (again, source being Secunia) it paints a picture that ought to alarm any Linux zealot who things that the "thousand eyes" approach actually finds and fixed exploits and bugs faster (it doesn't).

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he said "hacker". I said "cracker"
That's what I was pointing out.

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I don't agree.It may be true in the case of servers.
You just said that Linux was more secure than windows. You didn't say anything about "except on the server". You've moved the goalposts twice now.

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but when it compare with the usage of an average person,It is not correct.

No. Again, Linux is not safer. It only provides a visage of safety, because it's not a target. If it ever becomes a target, those same people who are supposedly "safer" because they use Linux will be in just as much danger, and the fact is it doesn't matter what OS you use, one should learn some safe computing habits. You can't just hope to abstract those away behind either UAC or a Graphical sudo prompt. And if you know some basic safe computing habits- the 'security' of an operating system becomes irrelevant. It's not operating systems that make or break security, it's users.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

mrlmohan

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Re: installing/using Linux
« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2011, 02:59:54 AM »
"According to Forrester Research, Microsoft fixes its security problems faster than the Linux vendors. That's a good thing, since Windows tends to have more severe security problems than Linux."
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It only provides a visage of safety, because it's not a target
It is a myth that Windows only gets attacked most because it's such a big target, and if Linux use grew then so would the number of attacks. Attacks are of course aimed at Windows because of the numbers of users, but its design makes it a much easier target, and much easier for an attack to wreak havoc.Windows' widespread (and often unnecessary) use of features such as RPC meanwhile adds vulnerabilities that really need not be there. Linux's design is not vulnerable in the same ways, and no matter how successful it eventually becomes it simply cannot experience attacks to similar levels, inflicting similar levels of damage, to Windows.Windows is harder to secure than Linux. It is the simple truth. Many IT professionals including RHCEs and MCSEs believe that Linux is more secure than Windows.I am not saying Linux is fully secure.As you see both Windows and Linux administrators requires same levels of skills. Linux is secure by design i.e. Linux is inherently more secure than Windows. Linux designed as a multi-use, network operating system from day one. For example IE / FF bug can take down entire windows computer. However, if there were the same bug in FF it won't take down entire Linux computer. Under windows almost any app level bug can be used to take down the entire system and turn into a zombie computer. No operating system is secure Both Linux / Windows admin requires same level of skills. By default Linux is more secure than Windows, but it is also open to attack.You can just make attackers job hard.Remember, security is an on going process and nothing is secure once connected to network, period.I’ve almost always been of the crowd that has thought that Linux was far more secure than Windows. This is because as an end user you only see desktops being compromised. :)

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Re: installing/using Linux
« Reply #26 on: October 06, 2011, 03:39:15 AM »
It is a myth that Windows only gets attacked most because it's such a big target, and if Linux use grew then so would the number of attacks.
False dilemma. How can both be true?

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but its design makes it a much easier target and much easier for an attack to wreak havoc.
Of course it does. See if you were writing a virus for Linux, it would only work for a few months before most distros stop using the libs you statically linked. The same things that make Windows an 'easier target' are the exact same reasons that it's so much better as a development platform- a well documented public API that covers everything, Side By Side DLL installations that actually work- generally with many other platforms you are better off to just statically link the library files, rather then just cross your fingers and hope the end user has the lib file. Or, more likely, you just throw the source on the net and let others figure it out.

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Windows' widespread (and often unnecessary) use of features such as RPC meanwhile adds vulnerabilities that really need not be there.
No worse t han having world-readable /home directory's, a program preinstalled in some later distros with the express purpose of tracking everything you do. Or how bash keeps the systems root password in plaintext in /root/.bash_history The last one might have been fixed, but the fact that it was ever in production ought to worry anybody.

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Linux's design is not vulnerable in the same ways, and no matter how successful it eventually becomes it simply cannot experience attacks to similar levels, inflicting similar levels of damage, to Windows.Windows is harder to secure than Linux. It is the simple truth.
A false truth.

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Many IT professionals including RHCEs and MCSEs believe that Linux is more secure than Windows.
Which in no way changes the fact that it's not. I'm sure plenty of otherwise smart people believe all sorts of stupid crap, that doesn't give creedence to it, it just means that they believe some stupid crap. When you have to resort to an appeal to authority to try to prove something, you've already lost. Arguments are made by facts, not by declarations of who said what and what level of education they happened to have.


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Linux is secure by design i.e. Linux is inherently more secure than Windows.
There is no such thing as "inherently secure" software. the term is meaningless. They are just weasel words spouted by FOSS advocates who understand little to nothing about the NT security architecture. Then you have ridiculous defaults like 15 minute sudo Sessions, and that fiasco with OpenSSL. The only systems that are 'inherently secure' are capability-based systems, such as EROS.

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Linux designed as a multi-use, network operating system from day one.
No. Linux was designed for absolutely none of those! It was designed because Torvalds wanted a Unix-like operating system on his 386. That's it. There was no inherent goal for security or networkability. Claims to the contrary are pure fabrications. Linux was not designed to be secure, it just inherited security from UNIX, which itself was not inherently secure since it wasn't designed to be secure from get-go either, it was designed simply to work; all other concerns were secondary, and when you have trade-offs like treating everything like a stream of bytes it's no surprise that secunia's listing for it's derivatives are so high. The thousand-eyes approach doesn't work when the thousand eyes are all fixated on some stupid window chrome.

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For example IE / FF bug can take down entire windows computer. However, if there were the same bug in FF it won't take down entire Linux computer.
This is false.

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Under windows almost any app level bug can be used to take down the entire system and turn into a zombie computer.
Also false. Again, ignorance of the NT security system does not mean you can make stuff up.

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No operating system is secure Both Linux / Windows admin requires same level of skills.

you JUST SAID it was inherently secure! Now it's pretty clear you don't know what that means. Either that- or far more likely- you simply copy-pasted a bunch of search results. The results of which contradict themselves more than I ever could, really.


I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

mrlmohan

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Re: installing/using Linux
« Reply #27 on: October 06, 2011, 04:03:44 AM »
I cannot change your mind.stick with your beliefs.that is good. :)

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Re: installing/using Linux
« Reply #28 on: October 06, 2011, 04:14:00 AM »
This thread is actually hilarious.

mrlmohan

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Re: installing/using Linux
« Reply #29 on: October 06, 2011, 04:19:07 AM »
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This thread is actually hilarious.
Yes It is