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Author Topic: New to Networking  (Read 11214 times)

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overthehill

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New to Networking
« on: May 29, 2012, 04:05:58 PM »
Hi Folks looking for help with my networking.

I just recently had DSL installed (wasn't available previously in my area.) Then, just the other day I had my ISP return to install a router. (Kids idea, birthday present.) I have absolutely no experience with a router.
(The router probably knows more about me than I know about it.) So you get the idea, I need help.
I have many assumptions in this post, so please feel free to correct those that require correcting.

Here are my concerns;
a) as my laptop (wireless)  gets further and further from the router the bandwidth speed decreases, (probably normal). It gets to the point (especially when running on internal power) that at approx. 70 ft. I experience some buffering when watching on-line videos etc. When checking speeds on the connected desktop the speeds typically run around 6.5 Mbps download, 0.70 Mbps upload.. The laptop when close to the router, runs at approx. 5.0 Mbps down. When used in my bedroom approx. 70 ft. away with external power I achieve 2.50 – 3.5 Mbps. With internal power (battery fully charged) some speeds observed as low as 1.7 Mbps.

So my question is; if I was to hardwire the laptop to the router, would my speeds improve? I would like to have both(wired and wireless) if this is conceivable. I’d like to run the laptop either wired (when required) or wireless when closer to the router.
If the wired option is possible do things have to be configured or is it a simple plug- in?
Oh !. If the wired option will work , I have approx. 100ft. of cat5e cable left by my previous ISP and it wouldn't be very difficult to install. I'm assuming that the cat5e cable could act as an Ethernet cable?. If so, would it be RJ-45 connectors that I would require? I ask this because I have a Ethernet cable that connects easily to the router. On the other hand the connector that I cut off of the cat5e cable does not appear to fit into the router?.
       
b) second concern is with the printer. When the ISP tech. was installing the router I asked about connecting the laptop to the printer. His answer was if the printer is not a wireless printer then it couldn't be done. Since then I've seen info. in some of the threads here (or links provided) that most printers can be setup to run from a wireless connected PC. No ports on the printer provided for this.  So, I'm wondering?
         
         Thanking you in advance for your help, overthehill


Laptop (Win XP) - TravelMate 2420

Desktop (Vista)  -  Dual Core Intel Pentium D, 2800 MHz

Printer - HP Office Jet J4580

Router - Actiontec GT724WG  4 LAN Ports.  Only (# 2 ) presently in use.


             

truenorth



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    Re: New to Networking
    « Reply #1 on: May 30, 2012, 11:22:06 AM »
    Well there is quite a bit in your post so i hope i'll hit all the bases.Yes you can run both wireless and wired connections to the router.The distances you are mentioning re the wireless efficiency issues are appropriate (unless compensated for by additional hardware--which is possible). What you are actually experiencing is signal loss over distance.If you don't have an issue with wired that will solve it. Your Ethernet connection on your computer and the router should be the same and a cat5 cable should work for both. You can make the non wireless printer capable of becoming wireless with additional hardware and even share the printer with more than one computer if so desired. There are optional signal booster antennae available to improve the signal strength over greater distances.There are also WI-fi reception antennae with software that can be added to the usb ports of computers to increase the signal reception of computers. I have used such a device on a laptop for years when traveling and accessing public WI-fi sites with very acceptable results. Did i cover all your points?truenorth

    Computer_Commando



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    Re: New to Networking
    « Reply #2 on: May 30, 2012, 11:35:08 AM »
    ...
    Here are my concerns;
    a) as my laptop (wireless)  gets further and further from the router the bandwidth speed decreases, (probably normal). It gets to the point (especially when running on internal power) that at approx. 70 ft. I experience some buffering when watching on-line videos etc. When checking speeds on the connected desktop the speeds typically run around 6.5 Mbps download, 0.70 Mbps upload.. The laptop when close to the router, runs at approx. 5.0 Mbps down. When used in my bedroom approx. 70 ft. away with external power I achieve 2.50 – 3.5 Mbps. With internal power (battery fully charged) some speeds observed as low as 1.7 Mbps.

    So my question is;

    1.  if I was to hardwire the laptop to the router, would my speeds improve?
    2.  I would like to have both(wired and wireless) if this is conceivable. I’d like to run the laptop either wired (when required) or wireless when closer to the router.
    3.  If the wired option is possible do things have to be configured or is it a simple plug- in?
    ...
    4.  I'm assuming that the cat5e cable could act as an Ethernet cable?.
    5.  If so, would it be RJ-45 connectors that I would require?
    6.  I ask this because I have a Ethernet cable that connects easily to the router. On the other hand the connector that I cut off of the cat5e cable does not appear to fit into the router?.
           
    7.  second concern is with the printer. When the ISP tech. was installing the router I asked about connecting the laptop to the printer. His answer was if the printer is not a wireless printer then it couldn't be done. Since then I've seen info. in some of the threads here (or links provided) that most printers can be setup to run from a wireless connected PC. No ports on the printer provided for this.  So, I'm wondering?
             
             Thanking you in advance for your help, overthehill


    Laptop (Win XP) - TravelMate 2420

    Desktop (Vista)  -  Dual Core Intel Pentium D, 2800 MHz

    Printer - HP Office Jet J4580

    Router - Actiontec GT724WG  4 LAN Ports.  Only (# 2 ) presently in use.
    Your distance/speed issue could be due to WiFi connection being 802.11g instead of 802.11n .  Most new routers are b/g &n.  Many DSL combo modems/routers are b/g only, so there is nothing you can do about the WiFi speed.  802.11n has much greater range & speed.

    1.  I believe so.
    2.  Yes.
    3.  Just plug it in.
    4.  Cat5e cable is one type of ethernet cable.
    5.  Yes, but you can't use the old connectors you cut off.
    6.  The cat5e cable you have sounds like a telephone/DSL cable, 4 or 6 conductor instead of 8 conductor.
    7.  Your printer is USB.  You would need a print server to convert the USB to ethernet

    overthehill

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    Re: New to Networking
    « Reply #3 on: May 30, 2012, 12:46:37 PM »
    Well there is quite a bit in your post so i hope i'll hit all the bases.Yes you can run both wireless and wired connections to the router.The distances you are mentioning re the wireless efficiency issues are appropriate (unless compensated for by additional hardware--which is possible). What you are actually experiencing is signal loss over distance.If you don't have an issue with wired that will solve it. Your Ethernet connection on your computer and the router should be the same and a cat5 cable should work for both. You can make the non wireless printer capable of becoming wireless with additional hardware and even share the printer with more than one computer if so desired. There are optional signal booster antennae available to improve the signal strength over greater distances.There are also WI-fi reception antennae with software that can be added to the usb ports of computers to increase the signal reception of computers. I have used such a device on a laptop for years when traveling and accessing public WI-fi sites with very acceptable results. Did i cover all your points?truenorth

    Thanks truenorth
     
    Yes you answered my questions. I now have a better understanding. I realize there was a lot of questions but I thought that I'd throw them all out there instead of a number of posts. ;)  overthehill


                 

    overthehill

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    Re: New to Networking
    « Reply #4 on: May 30, 2012, 01:25:12 PM »
    Your distance/speed issue could be due to WiFi connection being 802.11g instead of 802.11n .  Most new routers are b/g &n.  Many DSL combo modems/routers are b/g only, so there is nothing you can do about the WiFi speed.  802.11n has much greater range & speed.

    1.  I believe so.
    2.  Yes.
    3.  Just plug it in.
    4.  Cat5e cable is one type of ethernet cable.
    5.  Yes, but you can't use the old connectors you cut off.
    6.  The cat5e cable you have sounds like a telephone/DSL cable, 4 or 6 conductor instead of 8 conductor.
    7.  Your printer is USB.  You would need a print server to convert the USB to ethernet

    Thanks CC. I like the way that you sorted my questions out.

    Between truenorth's input and yours I now know many of my  options.

    From your reply I now have another router question though. If I understand properly my ISP could have set-up a 802.11n
    combo modem/router instead of the 802.11g. Do I understand properly?

    The Cat5e cable that I have is actually a 4/pr cable. What I found interesting though was as I mentioned. The cut off end ( I do realize these are a one time only crimp) does just not fit(for some reason) into any ports in the router. It did come out of the port on my PC so that was the reason I asked whether or not I required RJ-45 connectors?.

    Think I'll just print from my desktop.

    Thanks again.overthehill


                 

    Computer_Commando



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    Re: New to Networking
    « Reply #5 on: May 31, 2012, 07:17:54 AM »
    ...
    From your reply I now have another router question though. If I understand properly my ISP could have set-up a 802.11n
    combo modem/router instead of the 802.11g. Do I understand properly?

    The Cat5e cable that I have is actually a 4/pr cable. What I found interesting though was as I mentioned. The cut off end ( I do realize these are a one time only crimp) does just not fit(for some reason) into any ports in the router. It did come out of the port on my PC so that was the reason I asked whether or not I required RJ-45 connectors?...
    DSL & cable have different tiers (speed plans) of service.  Depending on your tier 802.11g may be more that adequate.  In my area, we have AT&T & I can see all the modem/routers in my area from my wifi laptop.  DSL's are easy to spot because all are 2Wire & have a name like 2Wire1234 & all are 802.11g.
    Your modem/router is a 'g'.  http://www.actiontec.com/products/product.php?pid=39
    Almost all DSL modems contain a router.  Almost, if not all, cable modems do not contain a router.  It is a separate box.
    Cable is much faster than DSL, by the nature of shielded cable having more bandwidth than unshielded twisted pair (UTP).  Peel back the insulation on the ethernet cable & see the twisting of the individual pairs.  This is how the speed is determined.

    Fiberoptic is a completely different beast.  It's called FIOS:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verizon_FiOS
    Light has much greater bandwidth.
    See Internet speed tiers:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT%26T_U-verse
    Cable is still faster:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOCSIS

    Telephone uses RJ-11 connectors, ethernet uses RJ-45 connectors.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Registered_jack
    Router LAN ports are RJ-45.  Sometimes they are a very tight fit.  I've had some that were so tight, they would not release without pliers.  Any cable that is that tight, I throw away.

    overthehill

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    Re: New to Networking
    « Reply #6 on: May 31, 2012, 09:33:37 AM »
    DSL & cable have different tiers (speed plans) of service.  Depending on your tier 802.11g may be more that adequate.  In my area, we have AT&T & I can see all the modem/routers in my area from my wifi laptop.  DSL's are easy to spot because all are 2Wire & have a name like 2Wire1234 & all are 802.11g.
    Your modem/router is a 'g'.  http://www.actiontec.com/products/product.php?pid=39
    Almost all DSL modems contain a router.  Almost, if not all, cable modems do not contain a router.  It is a separate box.
    Cable is much faster than DSL, by the nature of shielded cable having more bandwidth than unshielded twisted pair (UTP).  Peel back the insulation on the ethernet cable & see the twisting of the individual pairs.  This is how the speed is determined.

    Fiberoptic is a completely different beast.  It's called FIOS:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verizon_FiOS
    Light has much greater bandwidth.
    See Internet speed tiers:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT%26T_U-verse
    Cable is still faster:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOCSIS

    Telephone uses RJ-11 connectors, ethernet uses RJ-45 connectors.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Registered_jack
    Router LAN ports are RJ-45.  Sometimes they are a very tight fit.  I've had some that were so tight, they would not release without pliers.  Any cable that is that tight, I throw away.

    Thanks once again C_C. 

    So from your info.   
    1) because I have DSL I'll be content with my 802.11g
    2) I'll attach the RJ-45 connectors and run out the cable to test my laptop to see if the speeds increase before the actual install.
    3) Because now I'm sure, I too will throw out any RJ-45 connector that gives me a problem.

    But I still have another questionI came across this. 568A vs 568B . 
    Which conductor sequence do you suggest or does it matter?.

    568A, uses the following manner from left to right: white-green, green, white-orange, blue, blue-white, orange, white-brown and brown.

    For standard cat 5 B connections, 568B, uses from left to right: white-orange, orange, white-green, blue, white-blue, green, white-brown and brown.

    overthehill


                 

    truenorth



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      Re: New to Networking
      « Reply #7 on: May 31, 2012, 04:30:57 PM »
      Just before we leave the modem/router references. In my case the DSL provider (Distributel Canada) provided a dsl modem which would require a wired connection to a computer. Since i wanted to be able to access the service from many computers (up to 7) i wanted the ability to do so simultaneously and wirelessly from various locations in the house. Thus it was my dime and necessity to purchase a router capable of transmission to the various computers. Because some computers were beyond good reception distance i then upgraded the provided antennae that came with the router to a more powerful one. My laptops had internal wi-fi capability built in but my desktops all required the purchase and installation of wireless adapters (also referred to as dongles). In the case of the laptop i took when traveling i found i could vastly improve the range and signal strength reception by adding a usb wi-fi extender antennae to the laptop. Just to give you the additional knowledge in case some of this may fit your circumstances and how they can be addressed. truenorth

      overthehill

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      Re: New to Networking
      « Reply #8 on: May 31, 2012, 06:30:37 PM »
      Just before we leave the modem/router references. In my case the DSL provider (Distributel Canada) provided a dsl modem which would require a wired connection to a computer. Since i wanted to be able to access the service from many computers (up to 7) i wanted the ability to do so simultaneously and wirelessly from various locations in the house. Thus it was my dime and necessity to purchase a router capable of transmission to the various computers. Because some computers were beyond good reception distance i then upgraded the provided antennae that came with the router to a more powerful one. My laptops had internal wi-fi capability built in but my desktops all required the purchase and installation of wireless adapters (also referred to as dongles). In the case of the laptop i took when traveling i found i could vastly improve the range and signal strength reception by adding a usb wi-fi extender antennae to the laptop. Just to give you the additional knowledge in case some of this may fit your circumstances and how they can be addressed. truenorth

      Thanks truenorth. Great info. and something I'll keep in mind. The laptop that I currently have is outdated (but still working fine) and we don't typically travel much. I would like the capability though to be able to use my laptop throughout the house. Like I mentioned I've just purchased a number of RJ-45 connectors and my neighbor loaned me a Belkin crimper. I'll uncoil the cable and give it a trial run to see if in fact my speeds increase when I'm at the far end of my home. If this shows any significant increase in speed I'll certainly install the cable.
      Don't know at the moment either how much I'm prepared to spend on any additional hardware to accommodate an outdated PC. Before too long I'll probably be forced to bite the bullet and get something new anyway. And by then, the whole picture will have changed. For now this is by far the easiest and least expensive option.

      PS; Not sure too, what a more powerful antennae would do to my sound system. The router as it stands sends a constant clunking noise to my speakers. Enough that I'm still attempting to find proper placement.

      Regards, overthehill


                   

      BC_Programmer


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      Re: New to Networking
      « Reply #9 on: May 31, 2012, 07:10:49 PM »
      In my case, I bought a router a few months before I even got internet; planning ahead, so to speak. I knew that if I got the internet first they'd either ding me for renting some crappy wireless-G router every month, or I'd have to get one anyway. So I got a rather nice Draft-N (wireless-N was draft at the time...) router, which also had gigabit LAN. I actually ran it wired only (though others in the house used the wifi and I didn't get any complaints) for about a year, until I got the laptop I'm typing on now, which I selected to have built-in wireless-N capability. The speed was really something; particularly network transfers between machines, which could use the full speed of the router. The internet itself was I believe 50mbps download and 10 mbps up.

      PS; Not sure too, what a more powerful antennae would do to my sound system. The router as it stands sends a constant clunking noise to my speakers. Enough that I'm still attempting to find proper placement.

      You haven't really described the sound system... I guess it's wireless? If so you could probably change it to use a different frequency.

      I have interference problems, too; first, my wireless card that was in my PC would sometimes interfere with the audio card circuitry. I was able to mitigate it somewhat by rearranging the connections, but I only have a few PCI slots and both cards are PCI so I couldn't move them very far apart. More recently the wireless-N card seems to have died, and I removed it from that PC. The sound issues were far less, but they still exist. I was however able to actually trace it to the speaker system itself, which is just a 2.1 system with two speakers and a subwoofer. It has an external volume control, and moving this around would change the intensity of the interference, and covering it with a CD, tin foil, or other electrically reflective material would deaden it too.

      The applicability to your situation- first, you have to try to find where the interference is occuring (assuming changing frequencies doesn't resolve your issue). In my case that "weak point" is the weakly shielded volume control. Then you simply have to "shield" it somehow. in my case I was able to just move that control a bit.

      On the other hand, in my case I wasn't picking up interference from a nearby wireless router since it hasn't been connected in some time. I was picking up interference from other stuff, like wireless routers, USB hubs, the electric motor on a desk fan, my monitor, and my USB TV Tuner. The biggest interferer I found was with a HTC smartphone I used for tethered net access a few times, which was so loud I had to shut off the speakers for the duration. (Sticking a CD or other metallic "shield" between it and the volume control and all was silent again).



      I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

      overthehill

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      Re: New to Networking
      « Reply #10 on: May 31, 2012, 08:12:24 PM »

      You haven't really described the sound system... I guess it's wireless? If so you could probably change it to use a different frequency.


      Thanks BC_ for your input.
      Actually the speaker system is an inexpensive older wired Altec Lansing VS2421. I've been very satisfied with this system considering the cost. Actually it's had pretty fair reviews. Never had a concern with the system until the router was installed. The noise that I'm complaining about can be eliminated by moving the speakers away from the router. They're not where I would prefer but much better than shutting the speakers off or listening to that constant noise.The router though must lay flat on my desk. If I was to put it in the stand or hang it higher on the wall that's probably where I'd be ,up the wall. As I mentioned if the speakers are a distance away from (or even if they are placed higher than) the router, the racket seems to be eliminated. Actually with the way it is now the sound is quite tolerable and I should be able to make it better. But I'm afraid if I was to install a more powerful antennae I'd have to put the speakers in another room or perhaps hang them from the ceiling? overthehill


                   

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      Re: New to Networking
      « Reply #11 on: May 31, 2012, 08:53:54 PM »
      Thanks BC_ for your input.
      Actually the speaker system is an inexpensive older wired Altec Lansing VS2421.
      That is the same sound system I have. The external volume control appears to be a weak point as far as shielding from interference goes. I thought it was the speakers in my case as well, but then when I put a CD on the volume control thing for a second I noticed that the mild static dissappeared. I haven't had it close to an operating wireless router, but the wireless transmitter on my laptop seems to also cause interference (not as bad as the cellphone though). All interference seems to cease when I "shield" the volume control thing with something. If your interference is in fact between the router and speakers, you need to shield the speakers in some fashion. usually a metal component of some sort between the two would work too. If you get a better antenna it will likely be more mobile, so you could move it farther away.


      I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

      overthehill

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      Re: New to Networking
      « Reply #12 on: May 31, 2012, 09:19:16 PM »
      That is the same sound system I have. The external volume control appears to be a weak point as far as shielding from interference goes. I thought it was the speakers in my case as well, but then when I put a CD on the volume control thing for a second I noticed that the mild static dissappeared. I haven't had it close to an operating wireless router, but the wireless transmitter on my laptop seems to also cause interference (not as bad as the cellphone though). All interference seems to cease when I "shield" the volume control thing with something. If your interference is in fact between the router and speakers, you need to shield the speakers in some fashion. usually a metal component of some sort between the two would work too. If you get a better antenna it will likely be more mobile, so you could move it farther away.

      Once again thanks BC_. I'll see what I can rig up. overthehill


                   

      overthehill

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      Re: New to Networking
      « Reply #13 on: June 01, 2012, 10:17:40 PM »
      Back again and copied the Italicized from a previous message in this thread.

      (I would like the capability though to be able to use my laptop throughout the house. Like I mentioned I've just purchased a number of RJ-45 connectors and my neighbor loaned me a Belkin crimper. I'll uncoil the cable and give it a trial run to see if in fact my speeds increase when I'm at the far end of my home. If this shows any significant increase in speed I'll certainly install the cable.)

      Well I have no explanation for what took place. I got the connectors on the cable (approx.80 ft), ran the cable outside and connected it to my laptop. While connected the speeds were quite good(for my service anyway) 4.0 - 5.2 Mbps download. Wireless (again outside) ,2.0 - 3.0 down. At this point I thought that I had it made. Wrong. I brought the cable into the house, and ran it to the far end.
      Now wired, right around .8- 1.0 Mbps download. Totally disappointed. Connected wireless to the far end (inside) the numbers were very close to what they were outside. I couldn't understand this (still can't) so I went through the whole procedure again. Exactly the same results. How is it possible that when wired it works outside but not inside. Crazy.
      Just to check the router I took a 6ft. patch cable that I had , connected it to the router/ laptop and received a constant 6.4 Mbps. The same as what I receive from my wired desktop.
      At this point the only thing that I can think of doing is to cut off the connectors, check conds. for continuity, shorts and crosses (again) and replace the connectors. I do not have a tester.
      And, I realize that I could purchase a booster or ? to extend the range, but one day I may possibly want to put a wired desktop at the far end, so a cable would be nice.
      In any case, if not what I suggested, what else could the problem possibly be? overthehill

      PS Oh! and just for info., the cable is Outdoor Cat5e grease filled and when installing the connectors I followed the 568A standard.


                   

      overthehill

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      Re: New to Networking
      « Reply #14 on: June 05, 2012, 10:37:04 PM »
      Update.
      Well I strung the cable (cat5e) and it works and it doesn't and I'm now sure that the problem is not the fault of the cable. If I remove the Ethernet cable from my desktop, use a coupler,then connect to my laptop(whether the Ethernet cable connected is 6ft. or 80 ft.) it works great. But, if the desktop is reconnected and another cable (whether 6ft. or 80 ft.) is plugged into the router(either port #1,#3 or #4) (port # 2 is used for the desktop) then connected to the laptop, speeds are less than 1.0 Mbps. I Emailed the manufacturer about this , got a response and no help whatsoever. Next I contacted my ISP support. He took met through all the hoops that he could think of and somehow finally got it to perform properly (then he quickly said good night). Not that he did anything , it was either feast or famine. Mostly famine. But as things started working properly (I'm sure a fluke) his suggestion was (should this happen again) remove the router from the surge protector, reboot the router and if the situation continues call back to (us) the ISP. So, as of now I'm not very confident that the problem has been solved?

      So to re-cap: if I remove the cable that goes to my desktop(from the router) and connect it to my laptop (no matter the length of cable) it works just fine. But if I reconnect the desktop as it was, then run a cable from another port to the laptop it's purely hit and miss.overthehill