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Author Topic: booting failure  (Read 24579 times)

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denisaf

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    booting failure
    « on: October 09, 2012, 06:00:20 PM »
    Windows 98SE. I have had the occasional booting failure on my other desk top computer. A screen with detail of the booting process in white on black appears with instructions to press keys: doing that and nothing happens. About five minutes later another white on black screen appears. It has 'DISK BOOT FAILURE, INSERT SYSTEM DISK AND PRESS ENTER'. I then turned it off and left it over night as previously the new booting would work. In the morning the first screen appeared but later the booting completed. I then did some EXCEL edit but later this froze so I turned the PC off. When I then tried to reboot, it got to the second screen again. Is this anything I can do to remedy this intermittent booting failure as it now seems to have got a lot worse?

    ninjatex



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    Re: booting failure
    « Reply #1 on: October 09, 2012, 06:03:46 PM »
    Why in the world are you using Windows 98se? That system hasn't received security updates in years from Microsoft, you're lucky the system ran up until now -- it's vulnerable to every computer virus that's come out since about the turn of the millenium.
    Senior Technician at Call The Ninja Computer Repair
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    denisaf

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      Hopeful

      Re: booting failure
      « Reply #2 on: October 09, 2012, 06:28:37 PM »
      I only use the Windows 98 PC for editing my writing in Word and for my Excel spreadsheets. This PC has Windows 7 and I use it for the Internet and all new writing and spreadsheets.

      ninjatex



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      Re: booting failure
      « Reply #3 on: October 10, 2012, 12:33:40 AM »
      It sounds like you might have hardware problems and the disk certainly looks suspect. Why don't you just edit them on the Windows 7 machine? If you're having troubles importing the old docs into MS Office, you might want to try OpenOffice.
      Senior Technician at Call The Ninja Computer Repair
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      denisaf

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        Hopeful

        Re: booting failure
        « Reply #4 on: October 10, 2012, 02:31:05 AM »
        Thanks ninjatex for that comment. I have never used OpenOffice so I will have to go through a learning process with the aid of Help.

        BC_Programmer


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        Re: booting failure
        « Reply #5 on: October 10, 2012, 06:19:27 AM »
        Seems like the Hard Drive is on the way out on that machine. It might just be taking longer to spin up, so you might try letting it warm up a bit at the error screen and then resetting it with Control-Alt-Delete. I'd also suggest running scandisk with the Surface scan option selected. This will take a very long time so make sure you won't need the machine in the meantime.
        I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

        denisaf

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          Re: booting failure
          « Reply #6 on: October 10, 2012, 12:11:04 PM »
          Thank you B_C_Programmer. I did what you suggested and it booted. Do you recommend I stop using that Windows 98PC. It is physically on the Home network through a Dlink router but the file sharing does not work.

          BC_Programmer


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          Re: booting failure
          « Reply #7 on: October 11, 2012, 12:22:49 AM »
          Do you recommend I stop using that Windows 98PC.
          if it still works for what you need, I don't see a reason to stop. However, If the hard drive is on the way out you should make sure to store anything you want to keep on a removable drive. With a USB Flash drive Windows 98SE is usually pretty finicky but with aftermarket packs like the Unofficial Service Pack for 98SE you can get some nifty features that we take for granted in later OS versions.

          Quote
          It is physically on the Home network through a Dlink router but the file sharing does not work.
          With Windows98 you can share a folder, but in order for Vista or later to access it, it cannot have a password.

          Revisiting the common issue that people bring up (and has been brought up here as well) about Windows 98 Security. There is a point to be made there, however:

          Quote
          it's vulnerable to every computer virus that's come out since about the turn of the millenium.
          Pretty much every piece of malware in the wild simply will not run on Windows 98. Windows 98 is not secure, but it is also no longer targeted.
          I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

          denisaf

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            Re: booting failure
            « Reply #8 on: October 11, 2012, 04:18:11 PM »
            I continue to use the 98 PC to work on my spreadsheets and for editing of my old writings. I use the 7 PC for the Internet and for new writings. I have now purchased a 32GB USB Flash Drive for storage of 98 PC files. This will replace the CD backup system I have used for years. Thanks for that suggestion. I would still like to be able to share files and print between the two PCs.

            Computer_Commando



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            Re: booting failure
            « Reply #9 on: October 11, 2012, 06:02:51 PM »
            ...I would still like to be able to share files and print between the two PCs...
            Router with USB port.  USB port can be used for shared printer and/or storage device.

            denisaf

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              Re: booting failure
              « Reply #10 on: October 12, 2012, 06:22:19 PM »
              My thanks for the suggestions which have enabled me to make decisions about how to cope with this problem. This topic can now be closed.

              denisaf

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                Hopeful

                Re: booting failure
                « Reply #11 on: October 15, 2012, 10:15:34 PM »
                The USB Flash Drive I obtained works with the Windows 7 PC but not with the Windows 98 PC. The present 98SE does not provide the driver so I will have to download the suggested Unofficial Service Pack for 98SE, after I have backed up the system using CDs.

                Computer_Commando



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                denisaf

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                  Re: booting failure
                  « Reply #13 on: October 23, 2012, 04:47:06 PM »
                  I went to the site for which Computer-Commando provided the link. Downloaded nusb33e for Windows 98SE. Clicked on nusb33e icon on desk top. List on instructions appeared. Went to Device Manager to remove listed items. There were no "drivers for USB flash drives" to remove. There were no drivers for "any USB 2.0 controllers" to remove. I did not remove "any unknown devices". Clicked on Yes on the list and it appears installation was carried out but the expected instructions on how to proceed did not appear. Put USB flash drive (San Disk Cruzer Switch) in port.  "Install-flash-player-9(2)" icon had appeared on the desk top. Clicking on that started "Adobe Flash Player Plugin Setup" but that stopped half way through. On the second try it finished. My Computer did not show the USB flash drive so I cannot use it. But Device Manager now shows "Cruzer Switch" under "USB Root Hub" with a "?" in front of it. clearly I have missed doing something!

                  Computer_Commando



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                  Re: booting failure
                  « Reply #14 on: October 24, 2012, 09:32:30 AM »

                  denisaf

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                    Hopeful

                    Re: booting failure
                    « Reply #15 on: October 24, 2012, 03:46:52 PM »
                    Thanks Computer_Commando for those links. Various Cruzers were on the list on the first link but not Cruzer Switch, the one I have. I used the Direct Link to download Cruzer 98 and then rebooted.  Nothing happened. My Computer did not show the Cruzer as being hardware. It seems that Cuzer98 is not a driver for Cruzer Switch.

                    denisaf

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                      Re: booting failure
                      « Reply #16 on: October 25, 2012, 03:23:43 PM »
                      I went to Driver Install & Fix Center and downloaded Driver Detective but it sent a message that it expected a newer version of Windows even though the download was for Windows 98.

                      patio

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                      Re: booting failure
                      « Reply #17 on: October 25, 2012, 03:38:47 PM »
                      That model is too new for a Win98 driver...
                      Most people blame MS for this ...but in reality the responsibility for writing drivers for OS's is on the hardware manuf.
                         
                       
                      " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

                      denisaf

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                        Re: booting failure
                        « Reply #18 on: October 25, 2012, 09:09:42 PM »

                        I presume patio that you were referring to Cruzer Switch when you said the model was too new for Windows 98. I have asked SanDisk whether they have a driver for that model as it is not included on their list.

                        BC_Programmer


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                        Re: booting failure
                        « Reply #19 on: October 26, 2012, 04:38:28 AM »
                        Personally, I would dump the device to avoid problems in the future, since it clearly isn't a standard Mass Storage device if the nusb driver can't use it, but that's just me.


                        That said, you can try this:


                        1. Remove all References to any installed sandisk software that you installed trying to get it working.Any previous driver software, for example.

                        Try this: It is labelled as the driver for non-U3 drives. it will work for U3 drives too (U3 being some ridiculous new gadget-magic that nobody ever uses):
                        http://www.sandisk.com/Assets/File/Downloads/USBFlashDrives/cruzer_family/Cruzer_Family_98SE.zip

                        When you install it, do not have the flash drive plugged in. Afterwards,reboot the machine, and plug in the Flash drive. Win98 will show the "found new hardware" wizard. Choose to display a list of all the drivers in a specific location so you can select the driver you want, choose "Hard Disk Controllers", select SanDisk from the manufacturer's list, and select "Cruzer Micro USB-Flash-Drive" From the device list. It will warn you that you picked the wrong driver, but ignore that and allow it to proceed. Drive should appear in My Computer.

                        This is the method I used on my SanDisk Flash drives before I found the generic USB drivers that worked for all the brands I had.

                        I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

                        denisaf

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                          Re: booting failure
                          « Reply #20 on: October 26, 2012, 10:12:42 PM »
                          SanDisk Technical Support have just advised me that they have not produced drivers for Windows 98SE for their flash drives. Therefore there seems to be no point in trying what BC-Progammer suggested. Thanks for the suggestion. I will now obtain a USB Flash Drive that has a Windows 98SE driver so I can store files or transfer them to the Windows 7 PC from that PC in case the booting failure means that PC is on its last legs. I will use the Cruzer Switch to store files from the windows 7 PC.

                          denisaf

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                            Re: booting failure
                            « Reply #21 on: October 27, 2012, 04:40:22 PM »
                            I have details on how to set up the Windows 98SE for a Flash Drive. I now know that there are no Windows 98SE drivers for Sandisk flash drives. There are numerous sites relating to the issue of what flash drives can be installed in the Windows 98SE PC. So the next step is to find and purchase a suitable one.

                            BC_Programmer


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                            Re: booting failure
                            « Reply #22 on: October 27, 2012, 07:44:44 PM »
                            I have details on how to set up the Windows 98SE for a Flash Drive. I now know that there are no Windows 98SE drivers for Sandisk flash drives. There are numerous sites relating to the issue of what flash drives can be installed in the Windows 98SE PC. So the next step is to find and purchase a suitable one.

                            I use a Three Sandisk Cruzer Micros and a Sandisk Cruzer Mini on my Windows 98SE laptop with no issues.
                            I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

                            denisaf

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                              Re: booting failure
                              « Reply #23 on: March 03, 2014, 03:13:39 PM »
                              BC_Programmer advised
                              "Seems like the Hard Drive is on the way out on that machine. It might just be taking longer to spin up, so you might try letting it warm up a bit at the error screen and then resetting it with Control-Alt-Delete. I'd also suggest running scandisk with the Surface scan option selected. This will take a very long time so make sure you won't need the machine in the meantime."
                              some time ago. I have not used the Windows98SE since then except in the failed attempts to copy files to FlashDrive. However, I now would like to recover some of the material on that machine. The first attempted boot seemed to work in that the Windows 98 screen came up but it went no further. So I tried to boot again and the error screen came up with "Disk I/O error. Replace the disk, and then press any key" I did this and "Boot from CD: DISK BOOT FAILARE,INSERT SYSTEM DISK AND PRESS ENTER" When I do that it goes back to Disk I/O error. If I then press Ctrl-Alt-Del  after some time it goes through that error routine again

                              Geek-9pm


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                              Re: booting failure
                              « Reply #24 on: March 03, 2014, 04:36:34 PM »
                              A hard drive can often be repaired and continue  to work for years.

                              patio

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                              Re: booting failure
                              « Reply #25 on: March 03, 2014, 04:45:45 PM »
                              Try a new data cable...
                                 
                               
                              " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

                              denisaf

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                                Re: booting failure
                                « Reply #26 on: March 03, 2014, 08:09:54 PM »
                                Try a new data cable...
                                Which data cable?

                                patio

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                                Re: booting failure
                                « Reply #27 on: March 04, 2014, 06:08:15 AM »
                                Ahhh...Geek mentioned HDD...sorry jumped the gun there.
                                   
                                 
                                " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

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                                Re: booting failure
                                « Reply #28 on: March 04, 2014, 01:25:47 PM »
                                From OP:
                                Quote
                                It has 'DISK BOOT FAILURE, INSERT SYSTEM DISK AND PRESS ENTER'. I then turned it off and left it over night as previously the new booting would work.
                                The title is booting failure
                                Somehow this got wally bugled  to Windows 98 reading a flash drive.
                                Windows 98 can boot a floppy drive and ta is how you install it.
                                HDD diagnostics can be done from a floppy.
                                A bookable Flash drive can start widows 98 hard drive having boot issues.

                                The OP has another PC that works and can be used to crate bookable Flash, CD and floppy.
                                OP, please read this:
                                http://lifehacker.com/5991848/how-to-boot-from-a-cd-or-usb-drive-on-any-pc
                                And this:
                                http://www.howtogeek.com/136987/how-to-create-a-bootable-dos-usb-drive/
                                Does that help any?





                                BC_Programmer


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                                Re: booting failure
                                « Reply #29 on: March 04, 2014, 07:14:52 PM »
                                From OP:The title is booting failure
                                It is wise to read the full thread before making a reply, if only to ensure you aren't repeating advice of others- it's also useful to prevent posting in a 2 year old thread (This one is fairly old). Even so, the OP has responded and basically brought things back to the original issue.

                                Quote
                                Somehow this got wally bugled  to Windows 98 reading a flash drive.
                                Well the original consensus was that the hard drive was failing and it was a good idea to get all the important data off the drive before it fails, which is where the USB drive came i, and the issues using it with Windows 98.

                                Quote
                                A bookable Flash drive can start widows 98 hard drive having boot issues.
                                This is a Windows 98-Era PC. Mass Storage devices weren't even ubiquitous enough to bother creating USB Class drivers for them, and they certainly couldn't boot from USB Drives at the time either.


                                Basically, the issue is that the drive was failing, and they had issues getting the flash drive to work originally and just left it be- Now they want some documents from that computer and the hard drive has gone from failing to failed.

                                I think the best option is to hook it up to an enclosure and connect it to the more modern machine. hopefully the drive is still accessible. It's likely the drive is completely hooped at this point though.
                                I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

                                denisaf

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                                  Re: booting failure
                                  « Reply #30 on: March 05, 2014, 05:27:39 PM »
                                  Thank you BC_Programmer for that summary of the situation. I tried to follow the lifetracker procedure but the screens that came up were unlike those mentioned. On pressing the start button, a white on black screen came momentarily and then was replaced by the white on black screen with the Disk I/O error, Replace the disk, and then press any key. This is a repeat of what I reported in previous post. However, "HDD S.M.A.R.T capability......Disabled" was also on this screen. Does this mean that the drive is completely hooped and nothing more can be done?

                                  patio

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                                  Re: booting failure
                                  « Reply #31 on: March 05, 2014, 05:31:26 PM »
                                  Try a new data cable on the HDD...if no joy-joy run chkdsk /r on it...let it run to completion.
                                     
                                   
                                  " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

                                  Geek-9pm


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                                  Re: booting failure
                                  « Reply #32 on: March 05, 2014, 05:51:51 PM »
                                  Quote
                                  However, "HDD S.M.A.R.T capability......Disabled" was also on this screen. Does this mean that the drive is completely hooped and nothing more can be done?
                                  Not at all. Most of  it is still working, but it is no longer reliable for general use. The drive can be repaired by a long process, but the results are uncertain. The prudent thing is to replace the drive and donate it to some recycle charity.
                                  OR
                                  If you are a hobbyist, fiddle with  it and and find some use for it. Something g not very important. Like use it for an old Windows 98 PC you keep to play old games.

                                  denisaf

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                                    Re: booting failure
                                    « Reply #33 on: March 05, 2014, 07:32:46 PM »
                                    Thank you Geek. I am not a hobbyist, just an aged user of a PC for writing, running Excel and using the internet. I will try and find someone who will take it off my hands because they can fix and use it.