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[04:29] <+camerongray> [12:22:23] <CH_Chat_Helper> I do run xp pro black version , this I will not deny point is , is the smoothest os out there[04:29] <+camerongray> [12:22:57] <CH_Chat_Helper> camerongray:[04:29] <+camerongray> [12:23:04] <camerongray> So, a dodgy, pirated copy probably crammed with malware, that's the way to go![04:29] <+camerongray> [12:23:16] <CH_Chat_Helper> crud[04:29] <+camerongray> [12:23:32] <camerongray> is XP blask edition an official release?[04:29] <+camerongray> [12:23:35] <CH_Chat_Helper> cleanest OS there is[04:29] <+camerongray> [12:24:09] <camerongray> It's a dodgy pirated copy[04:29] <+camerongray> [12:24:36] <CH_Chat_Helper> is a pure artisans release , ahacked out real windows[04:29] <+camerongray> [12:25:07] <camerongray> "Hacked out real Windows" - Exactly, someone has modified it, could have done whatever the *censored* they wanted to it![04:29] <+camerongray> [12:25:12] <camerongray> And being XP SP2 as well - Must be full of security holes[04:29] <+camerongray> [12:25:39] <CH_Chat_Helper> camerongray: dodgy is in the head of the operator[04:29] <+camerongray> [12:26:17] <camerongray> No, using a copy of an OS that someone has mucked about is is dodgy, you have NO idea what they did to it![04:29] <+camerongray> [12:26:54] <CH_Chat_Helper> beewn using black ver for 12 years is stable and is adaptable[04:29] <+camerongray> [12:26:55] <camerongray> Running XP SP3 in 2013 is bad enough, running SP2 is even worse, and running an unofficial, pirated release is insane![04:29] <+camerongray> [12:27:41] <CH_Chat_Helper> sp3 is vista prelude is <censored>[04:29] <+camerongray> [12:27:46] <camerongray> No it's not![04:29] <+camerongray> [12:27:58] <camerongray> It's a bunch of incremental security patches and bug fixes![04:29] <+camerongray> [12:28:11] <camerongray> You don't even see the difference when using it![04:29] <+camerongray> [12:28:13] <CH_Chat_Helper> excactly![04:29] <+camerongray> [12:28:29] <camerongray> Except that it patches security holes![04:30] <+camerongray> [12:28:38] <camerongray> Which is kinda important, especially on somehting as old as XP[04:30] <+camerongray> [12:29:38] <CH_Chat_Helper> all of a sudden win team saw they had created the best OS so they went and <censored> it up[04:30] <+camerongray> [12:29:49] <camerongray> In your opinion[04:30] <+camerongray> GOLD![04:30] <+camerongray> Oh, should have warned you to stop drinking anything![04:32] * Joins: CH_Chat_Helper (HOSTMASK)[04:32] <CH_Chat_Helper> yo[04:32] <+camerongray> hey[04:33] <+camerongray> Do you honestly think that an OS that was last updated 9 years ago is still secure?[04:35] <CH_Chat_Helper> yes[04:35] <+camerongray> How can that possibly be the case?[04:35] <&BC_Programming> pirated 'black' editions come with malware and rootkits. Usually it makes the victim machine part of a botnet using custom software. usually piggybacks on framedyn.dll[04:36] <CH_Chat_Helper> thing is about black ver is , it is the code basic of all win vers[04:36] <+camerongray> With the malware and rootkits added[04:36] <CH_Chat_Helper> crap[04:36] <+camerongray> Why else would they release it?[04:37] <CH_Chat_Helper> was not released[04:37] <&BC_Programming> XP Black isn't made by MS, it's a 'aftermarket' pirated version created by others[04:37] <CH_Chat_Helper> yes it was [04:37] <+camerongray> Why would the "crackers" make it then![04:37] <&BC_Programming> CH_Chat_Helper: no. It was not[04:37] <&BC_Programming> did you download it from MS?[04:37] <+camerongray> XP Black is NOT a release from MS, nor is it any sort of unreleased version - It's a version modded by crackers![04:37] <CH_Chat_Helper> was the coders for MS that wrote black[04:38] <+camerongray> NOPE![04:38] <+camerongray> Any proof for that![04:38] <&BC_Programming> CH_Chat_Helper: no it wasn't. pirates/sceners[04:38] <CH_Chat_Helper> is the basis of all post 98SE OS[04:38] <+camerongray> I don't see any reason to run XP nowadays - We moved from XP Pro to 7 at work in 2011 or so - Never had a single problem, and everyone here prefers it![04:38] <+camerongray> What is the basis of alll Post 98 OSs?[04:39] <+camerongray> With the exclusion of ME, the base of them is NT[04:39] <&BC_Programming> NT 3.1->NT 3.51->NT 4->Windows 2000->Windows XP[04:40] <CH_Chat_Helper> ok win98 ws the open OS , intended to be any users[04:40] <CH_Chat_Helper> was*[04:40] <+camerongray> 98 was also made in 1998![04:40] <+camerongray> Times have changed![04:41] <CH_Chat_Helper> crud code is still the same basic path , somewhat glorified , same code path[04:41] <&BC_Programming> Many windows versions have aftermarket "editions" that hack the boot logo to change it. Windows XP Black does this (presumably). It does include the Royale Noir theme I assume, but you can install that on a legitimate XP installation as well with a uxtheme patch. Thing is if they patched that, no way to know if they didn't also patch other files. From my recollection framedyn.dll didn't match the legitimate framedyn.dll and was set to load with all applications, which raises questions[04:42] <CH_Chat_Helper> is <censored> windows[04:42] <+camerongray> What makes you think "XP Black" is a legitimate release?[04:42] <CH_Chat_Helper> techno make billions win code[04:43] <&BC_Programming> what?[04:44] <CH_Chat_Helper> is not is a black version isa microcruds internal coders answer to the giga billions path that gates took[04:45] <+camerongray> Yeah... Internal coder...[04:45] <+camerongray> Not some script kiddie hacker?[04:45] <CH_Chat_Helper> no[04:45] <&BC_Programming> how do you know this?[04:45] <+camerongray> There's no reason in 2013 to be running XP, Even if you have legacy software, Windows 7 Pro provides "XP Mode" free of charge for running them![04:46] <CH_Chat_Helper> xp black came from micro crap staff[04:46] <+camerongray> Any proof of that?[04:46] <+camerongray> How do you know?[04:46] <&BC_Programming> No, it came from these guys: http://www.zone54.com/[04:46] <CH_Chat_Helper> yes but will not offer it[04:47] <+camerongray> Why won't you offer it? Because it doesn't exist?[04:47] <CH_Chat_Helper> um been using xp black for yonks[04:48] <+camerongray> And what does that have to do with anything?[04:48] <&BC_Programming> nothing at all[04:48] <+camerongray> My granny has used her Dimension 2400 for years, doesn't mean it's still a great PC![04:50] <CH_Chat_Helper> am not gonna give it away , gezze dude ,is just that I am saying when xp support is ended , black ver will still be active[04:50] <+camerongray> Why the *censored* wouldn't you give a link?[04:50] <&BC_Programming> wooow[04:50] <CH_Chat_Helper> no [04:50] <+camerongray> Is it because the link is possibly to a dodgy pirate site?[04:50] <&BC_Programming> CH_Chat_Helper, XP support ending in 2014 won't cause currently activated installations to suddenly trigger WGA[04:50] <CH_Chat_Helper> goog;e it ![04:51] <&BC_Programming> already did, came up with link I already posted[04:51] <+camerongray> I did - All links are dodgy pirate versions made by script kiddies and full of malware![04:51] <CH_Chat_Helper> oops google*[04:52] <CH_Chat_Helper> ok camerongray [04:52] <+camerongray> So lets see what we have here...[04:52] <CH_Chat_Helper> not right now[04:52] <+camerongray> Running XP in 2013 is dangerous[04:52] <&BC_Programming> "Zone 54" are the sceners responsible for the XP Black Edition.[04:52] <CH_Chat_Helper> but will send you a limk[04:52] <+camerongray> Not keeping an OS updated (Running SP2) is dangerous[04:52] <+camerongray> Running an unofficial hacked version of an OS is dangerous[04:53] <+camerongray> So you've basically taken those three things, and added them together![04:53] <&BC_Programming> XP "Black" Edition has a trojan'd framedyn.dll set as an appinit_dll. makes the system part of a botnet[04:53] <CH_Chat_Helper> geeze camerongray you are back passage retentive[04:54] <+camerongray> And what's that meant to mean?[04:54] <CH_Chat_Helper> read it [04:54] <+camerongray> I know what you said, not sure what you mean by it![04:54] <&BC_Programming> Anally retentive probably[04:54] <+camerongray> I'm stating you have managed to combine the three most dangerous things you can do with your OS into one![04:54] <&BC_Programming> because you know not wanting to be part of a botnet is being picky[04:55] <CH_Chat_Helper> draw your own conclsions[04:55] <&BC_Programming> I did more than draw a conclusion, I also coloured it in[04:55] <+camerongray> Oh god, just saw the PC on my desk at work, it's running Windows 7!06[04:55] * +camerongray takes it, chucks it in the cupboard and digs out one of the old P4 machines with XP[04:55] <+camerongray> There, much more secure![04:56] <&BC_Programming> but camerongray you actually work with computers, you don't just fiddle with them and suffer from a serious case of Dunning-Kruger[04:56] <+camerongray> lol[04:56] <+camerongray> Right, I need to move to another job - They aren't only running Windows 7 - It's Windows 7 Service Pack 1![04:57] <+camerongray> And it's the genuine OEM install from Dell, I better install a hacked version![04:58] <+camerongray> Uh oh...[04:58] <&BC_Programming> I like the idea that there were 'internal coders' creating the black edition. As if we can actually trust the people that made it at their word.[04:58] <+camerongray> lol![04:58] <&BC_Programming> particularly since a quick web search finds the sceners responsible for it[04:58] <+camerongray> My work PC (Optiplex 980 SFF) has a 235w PSU - Shouldn't it have at least 1200w, I mean, there's an i5 650 in there![04:58] <&BC_Programming> I like how they state the license as GPL, that's a nice touch[04:59] <CH_Chat_Helper> camerongray: sarcasm a fine track or path . point is , i run a low ram machine and suffer no grief , can you say the same[04:59] <+camerongray> Yep![04:59] <&BC_Programming> hmm[05:00] <+camerongray> And I'm not malware infested![05:00] <&BC_Programming> XP Black appears to include SP3 anyway[05:00] <CH_Chat_Helper> crap[05:00] <&BC_Programming> yeah I did this thing called reading the description[05:00] <CH_Chat_Helper> black is sp2[05:01] <&BC_Programming> *link to torrent for said 'MS' release*[05:01] <+camerongray> I'm sure a cheapo 1200w unit will last way longer than the really high quality 235w one Dell fitted![05:01] <&BC_Programming> says SP3[05:01] <CH_Chat_Helper> sp3 is pseudo Vista[05:01] <+camerongray> HOW![05:01] <&BC_Programming> also if you've been running it for 12 years, then you haven't been running SP2 because SP2 was released in 2004, which was 9 years ago[05:01] <+camerongray> It't incremental security updates![05:02] <&BC_Programming> I think maybe SP3 resets some UI options as a side-effect of the update, so maybe CH_Chat_Helper had ironically confused the standard XP control panel setup as a psuedo Vista when he installed it or used it or something[05:02] <+camerongray> lol yeah[05:02] <&BC_Programming> or maybe he has never even used it and instead prefers to pretend that he knows what he's talking about when there is no factual basis for any of the claims being made[05:03] <+camerongray> That makes sense![05:03] <&BC_Programming> in fairness, pretending you know what you are talking about seems to work wonders in some places[05:03] <+camerongray> lol[05:03] <CH_Chat_Helper> BC IN YA OWN DREQAMS[05:03] <&ChanbotVII> CH_Chat_Helper : Warning: You've triggered caps flood protection, release your caps. [05:04] <+camerongray> I honestly find it scary that you advise people and fix other people's PCs, yet believe this![05:04] <CH_Chat_Helper> in ya own dreams[05:04] <+camerongray> What does that mean?[05:04] <&BC_Programming> it means he has no evidence to present[05:04] <&BC_Programming> beyond the anecdotal, presumably[05:05] <CH_Chat_Helper> camerongray: like for several years here i provided drivers and controllers , what did you do?[05:06] <&BC_Programming> provided competent advice that wasn't pulled from a position of deep ignorance, I imagine[05:06] <CH_Chat_Helper> BC_Programming: you?[05:07] <+camerongray> Same as me I'd imagine[05:07] <+camerongray> Drivers aren't hard to find in the majority of cases![05:07] <CH_Chat_Helper> what did you sdo to attain this authoritarian precipice?[05:07] <CH_Chat_Helper> do*[05:08] <+camerongray> What?[05:09] <&BC_Programming> See that's the problem. Now you are trying to say that the only thing that would make a person correct would be authority; when the opposite is true. I'm not saying you are wrong because I am in some authoratative position, I'm saying you are wrong because all the evidence indicates you are[05:09] <+camerongray> There's also no real "authority" in this channel, we are all on the same level really[05:09] <&BC_Programming> thus the request for additional evidence that supports your claims, which I've been unable to find[05:09] <CH_Chat_Helper> is true camerongray but the outside of normal drivers/ contollers those i can find[05:10] <+camerongray> And where do you find them?[05:10] <&BC_Programming> any examples?[05:10] <+camerongray> Reputable sites I hope[05:10] <&BC_Programming> and what constitutes "outside normal drivers"... what is a "not-normal" driver, exactly[05:11] <CH_Chat_Helper> well I got open accfess to 212gb of drivers and contollers . what you got?[05:11] <CH_Chat_Helper> acess*[05:11] <+camerongray> HAHAHA[05:12] * Joins: PCdoc ([email protected])[05:12] <+camerongray> Hey PCdoc[05:13] <PCdoc> useless electricity cut-off[05:13] <PCdoc> i hate it[05:13] <&BC_Programming> what is a software controller? controllers are hardware, either I/O controllers or bus controllers[05:14] <+camerongray> yeah[05:14] <+camerongray> PCdoc: May want to send a pm to Chanbot saying '!rerun 40' - Will give you the history[05:14] <PCdoc> !rerun 40[05:14] <+camerongray> PM chanbot :P[05:14] <PCdoc> oops[05:15] <CH_Chat_Helper> camerongray: , ignorance does not equate to innocence , it equates to the inability to percieive[05:15] <+camerongray> I'm not ignorant![05:15] <CH_Chat_Helper> wanna bet?[05:15] <&BC_Programming> yeah talk about the pot calling the kettle black[05:15] <+camerongray> hhehe[05:16] <+camerongray> I'm honestly gobsmacked that someone who advises others and fixes their PCs believes what you have just said![05:16] <&BC_Programming> CH_Chat_Helper: prove it. Provide evidence. Don't assert things and then throw a tantrum when asked for evidence[05:16] <CH_Chat_Helper> geeze dudes[05:16] <CH_Chat_Helper> like ask any I have helped[05:17] <&BC_Programming> even a stopped clock is right twice a day[05:17] <+camerongray> You haven't proven anything, you've given 'evicence' posted on torrent sites by script kiddies saying they work for MS[05:17] <CH_Chat_Helper> you's fella's are like tangental[05:18] <+camerongray> Not really, you are making no sense, making dangerous suggestions and refusing to be told otherwise[05:18] <&BC_Programming> tangential to what? how did we go off on a tangent?[05:18] <CH_Chat_Helper> guess what , you two wankers are due for a slapping[05:18] <+camerongray> yeah, of course we are[05:19] <&BC_Programming> shame you have no power to use in a corrupt fashion here[05:19] <+camerongray> To be fair, if smacking my head off my desk several times counts as a slapping - I've already done that several times during this convo[05:19] <+camerongray> While sitting at work - getting odd looks :P[05:19] <&BC_Programming> they'll think you're on reddit heh[05:20] <+camerongray> lol, or working with SiteCatalyst![05:20] <&BC_Programming> oh right... so maybe it won't surprise them at all lol[05:20] <&BC_Programming> they might have to contact their adobe representative as per the instructions :P[05:20] <CH_Chat_Helper> not because you are both dumb heads . is because you both are unable to precieve[05:21] <&BC_Programming> lol[05:21] <+camerongray> Dumb heads?[05:21] <CH_Chat_Helper> yes[05:21] <CH_Chat_Helper> arrogant dumb heads\[05:22] <+camerongray> All my software is genuine, official releases[05:22] <CH_Chat_Helper> crap[05:22] <&BC_Programming> CH_Chat_Helper: look, you've made claims. In order for us to "perceive" things, we need to be presented with evidence. You presented no evidence; you asserted for example that XP Black was written by former MS coders, but provided no evidence[05:22] <&BC_Programming> so why would we believe it? because you say that "you have evidence" that you refuse to share? No, of course not. if you don't present evidence, it doesn't exist. [05:23] <&BC_Programming> and if a claim has no evidence, then we have to fallback onto the null hypothesis[05:23] <+camerongray> [13:23:03] <CH_Chat_Helper> crap - What was that related to? [05:24] <&BC_Programming> if I had to guess, I'd say it was meant as a "[that's] crap" rather than a mild expletive[05:24] <+camerongray> lol yeah, was wondering which it referred to![05:25] <CH_Chat_Helper> he he black exists , whee did it come from , for crying out loud logic shows the originator of xp . are you lot <censored> wits or what?[05:25] <+camerongray> Logic doesn't shwo that[05:25] <+camerongray> Logic would show that it's a cracked copy made by a script kiddie![05:25] <&BC_Programming> XP Black is a pirate release that comes from the sceners that call themselves zone54[05:25] <+camerongray> They are all over the internet![05:26] <CH_Chat_Helper> your lack of logic camerongray that shows that[05:26] <+camerongray> My lack of logic?[05:27] <CH_Chat_Helper> crud BC_Programming is from the origional wins team[05:27] <+camerongray> My logic dictates that Microsoft would not develop a version like "Black edition" then only distribute it on dodgy websites[05:27] <&BC_Programming> CH_Chat_Helper: how do you know this? You've provided nothing but so far baseless assertions[05:28] <+camerongray> We requested proof of it being from the Windows development team, you refused to provide it![05:29] <&BC_Programming> from what I can tell, it's simply a Scener's release, no different than any of the others with various other names. I've yet to find anything independently that even claims anybody in Zone54 is or was an MS employee, I'm open to citations pointing me towards some though[05:29] <CH_Chat_Helper> hey i run a service provided black version OS sit on it ya silly buggers[05:29] <+camerongray> So, an illegal cracked copy?[05:30] <CH_Chat_Helper> nope[05:30] <+camerongray> So you bought it?[05:30] <CH_Chat_Helper> a free OS from microcrap[05:30] <&BC_Programming> XP Black is a pirate version. It is NOT made by MS. You have claimed it is. YOU have to provide the proof. You CANNOT provide baseless assertions[05:30] <+camerongray> Yeah, microsoft release a free os![05:30] <CH_Chat_Helper> crud[05:30] <+camerongray> And where was that downloaded from?[05:31] <&BC_Programming> and repeating that we don't have 'logic' or aren't perceiving doesn't change the fact that the Onus of proof is on the person making the claim, and Occam's Razor tells us that the most likely scenario, lacking evidence to the contrary, is the most probable.[05:31] <CH_Chat_Helper> was from a crew I knew at ,icrocrud[05:31] <CH_Chat_Helper> ooops microcrud[05:31] <&BC_Programming> do you have any names? I can see if I can confirm your statements[05:32] <+camerongray> Gah, I'm hungry - tempted to take my laptop out to lunch so I can continue this[05:32] <CH_Chat_Helper> BC_Programming: you ignorant or just plain arrogant?[05:32] <&BC_Programming> CH_Chat_Helper: well did you or didn't you know people at MS?[05:33] <&BC_Programming> If you did I can find out where they are[05:33] <&BC_Programming> or if they are still there even[05:33] * Joins: Rikai ([email protected])[05:33] <&ChanbotVII> wb Rikai, from your hiatus from #glitchpc of 2 minutes 2 seconds . [05:34] <+camerongray> If you ask me anything and I make a claim - I'd be happy to provide proof, your refusal to provide proof kinda shows you are making this up as you go along[05:35] <CH_Chat_Helper> i know the origional developers of firefox . am 60 years of age , I know crud you fella's will never now[05:35] <&BC_Programming> no reason to think XP Black Edition is any different from the hundreds of other "editions" of XP created as Pirate systems[05:36] <CH_Chat_Helper> bc sit on it[05:36] <&BC_Programming> CH_Chat_Helper: original developer of Firefox were teenagers, Early days of Firebird/and then Firefox were documented in the Documentary "Code Rush"[05:37] <CH_Chat_Helper> bc crud [05:37] <&BC_Programming> (good docum. highly recommended)[05:37] <CH_Chat_Helper> ff was called Remurewa[05:37] <+camerongray> No it wasn't![05:37] <&BC_Programming> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXRu-5C7fYU[05:37] <&BC_Programming> Code Rush[05:37] <+camerongray> You're making that up using the name of a local area[05:38] <+camerongray> Firefox originated from the Mozilla browser if I'm not mistaken[05:38] <CH_Chat_Helper> was a net set up in Aukland with ^ users , evolved to firefox[05:38] <&BC_Programming> CH_Chat_Helper, you are so full of it your eyes are brown[05:38] <+camerongray> Yep[05:40] <&BC_Programming> Firefox sprung from the Open Sourced Netscape code, though it went through a few name changes[05:40] <&BC_Programming> phoenix/Firebird being at least two, though it might have been called simply "Mozilla" I think[05:40] <CH_Chat_Helper> BC_Programming: so dissent is the answer you use, inability to present an honest challenge? wanker![05:41] <&BC_Programming> ? you provided no evidence though[05:41] <+camerongray> There is no info online to back up what you said![05:41] <&BC_Programming> you just asserted it was named Remurewa, and that it originated in a given location, and yet there is no information to affirm those statements[05:41] <+camerongray> Loads of stuff that goes against it though[05:42] <CH_Chat_Helper> for crying out loud , you got no faithini anothers word?[05:42] <&BC_Programming> not somebody who's clearly making things up[05:43] <CH_Chat_Helper> faith in*[05:43] <+camerongray> ^^ This[05:43] <+camerongray> I would have faith in someone's word, if I wasn't finding much more reputable evidence against it![05:43] * Joins: jacky ([email protected])[05:43] <CH_Chat_Helper> grrrrrr me wants to slap the <censored> otta ignorami[05:44] <&BC_Programming> "the project which became Firefox started as an experimental branch of the Mozilla Suite called m/b (or mozilla/browser). After it had been sufficiently developed, binaries for public testing appeared in September 2002 under the name Phoenix." You are saying this is wrong, but the commit history of FF says otherwise[05:44] <+camerongray> Hey jacky, we'll explain later... :P[05:44] <@jacky> camerongray: :)[05:45] <+camerongray> CH_Chat_Helper: We all have internet connections, anything you say can be verfied in a few seconds - And we have been unable to verify ANY of your claims![05:46] <PCdoc> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox[05:46] <&BC_Programming> http://web.archive.org/web/19981212031129/http://www.mozilla.org/ [05:46] <+camerongray> gah, i need food![05:46] <+camerongray> I'll continue this on my phone - Excuse any typos/autocorrects![05:47] <CH_Chat_Helper> crap BC_Programming was a local net called Remurewa , was evolved by John Clausin became Firefox , <censored> you are ignorant[05:47] <+camerongray> Because "John Clausin" doesn't have any real online presense[05:48] <&BC_Programming> So we're supposed to believe that there is a giant conspiracy that creates an entire alternate history?[05:48] <+camerongray> If you had said Dave Hyatt, Joe Hewitt or Blake Ross on the other hand1[05:48] <+camerongray> You know, the actual creators[05:49] <CH_Chat_Helper> he he , mmm he is called [email protected][05:49] <+camerongray> Yeah, because domain extensions without anything before them are possible![05:50] <&BC_Programming> I found a john clausen... he's a Marketing and Clinical Research Manager for Fisher and Paykel Healthcare[05:50] <+camerongray> lol[05:51] <&BC_Programming> I think he might be confusing some local BBS or ISP service with a web browser[05:55] <+camerongray> lol, sounds like it[05:57] <+camerongray> Says he surrenders, in the wrong channel of course[05:58] <&BC_Programming> heh[05:58] <&BC_Programming> actually I've been looking at the firefox/mozilla stuff in wayback, pretty cool
