Connection Method, Bans and Lostcoast

[immental1200]

Hello,

I was recently banned from #computerhope for 'flaming' as it was put. This was a ban that I deserved, and I have now served.

Upon messaging Lostcoast to check that I could safely return without being accused of ban-evasion, I was informed that I wasn't allowed to use IRC Cloud to connect.

--
Private messages between myself and Lostcoast
--
Wednesday, September 18th, 2013
16:43:33 <Immental1200> Hi
16:43:39 <Immental1200> Am I not due to be unbanned?
16:43:41 <Immental1200> Thanks.
16:47:57 <lostcoast> yes but return without irccloud
16:48:13 <Immental1200> Why am I not allowed IRCCloud?
16:51:45 <Immental1200> There's currently 3 people in #computerhope using IRCCloud.
16:54:00 <lostcoast> back in a few hours
--
Friday, September 27th, 2013
21:21:09 <Immental1200> Hello lostcoast. Can we continue our discussion please?
21:24:07 <lostcoast> I'll end it now...you use a service to flame the channel then you lose that right.
21:25:23 <Immental1200> Surely, the service I used which gave an unchangeable hostmask without me creation a new account, which goes against IRC Cloud's terms, is better than my home ISP which has an IP that changes every 24-48 hours?
21:25:27 <Immental1200> I at least stay banned then.
21:25:38 <Immental1200> creating*
21:26:05 <Immental1200> Not to mention the fact that I'd rather use this than any other client, which means if I'm not at home, I'm still banned.
--

I've not received any message since, and I feel that his argument of disallowing me access to a service such as IRC Cloud because I was banned on it once is ridiculous. As I stated in the private messages, it's actually more pain for me to change my IRC Cloud hostmask than it is to pull up another client and connect with my ISP IP, thus bypassing any bans in place anyway!

I've seen it mentioned before that users of IRC Cloud aren't welcome in the channel, despite this no action has ever been taken against other users that I can see.

The user 'BattleCam' is running off IRC Cloud, and right now there are two users in the channel connected via IRC Cloud.

So, I ask you Lostcoast - what are you doing? I feel as if this is prejudice.

I'm sure there will be other people who agree with me that the IRC channel has gone 'downhill' lately, and that the ban rate has increased, as well as the new 'rules' that are being enforced, yet only in some situations and are undocumented.

When I first started using the chat, it wasn't like this, users were treated relatively equally and it was simple, be banned, leave for the time period, return and nothing more was said. My IRC Cloud hostmask is still banned.

[patio]

Maybe the other Users of IRCCloud don't create as much of a fuss as you do...did you consider that option ? ?

[Salmon Trout]

Sounds like a classic example of a "user we don't want".

[kyle_engineer]

Not that I feel any need to explain anything really, but there is a reason that lostcoast and the rest of us do no want many people using IRC Cloud. Primarily, because it mashes hostmasks to one given domain (imo). This has created problems for me when I try to kick a dude normally, and can't because he is sharing with a HOP who is immune to /kick or whatever. Don't get me wrong, there are ways around this... but it's really annoying.

I use IRC Cloud, mibbit and various other clients, and I don't see any reason that a person would need to stay attached to IRC Cloud.

Anyway, that is the simplicity from my POV. IRC Cloud accounts can hinder/annoy HOPs and OPs from doing their job properly and smoothly. Therefore, they are not something desired in the channel.

[immental1200]

Not that I feel any need to explain anything really, but there is a reason that lostcoast and the rest of us do no want many people using IRC Cloud. Primarily, because it mashes hostmasks to one given domain (imo). This has created problems for me when I try to kick a dude normally, and can't because he is sharing with a HOP who is immune to /kick or whatever. Don't get me wrong, there are ways around this... but it's really annoying.

I use IRC Cloud, mibbit and various other clients, and I don't see any reason that a person would need to stay attached to IRC Cloud.

Anyway, that is the simplicity from my POV. IRC Cloud accounts can hinder/annoy HOPs and OPs from doing their job properly and smoothly. Therefore, they are not something desired in the channel.

Kyle, if you're not aware IRC Cloud gives a unique user identification followed by the hostmask. So for example, [email protected] - this number doesn't change.

[patio]

So the Op/Hop's should have to do more work because you choose to use it ?

Twisted logic.
Bottom line...become a productive Member of the Chat community and stop being high maintenence.

[kyle_engineer]

Alll rules are put in placce to avoid potential problems and/or harm.

Yes, I know that the UID that IRC Cloud generates is unique and static, however, the overall hostmask method that the use is also unique. So if someone goes to ban a user that is using IRC Cloud using the regular ban method, they ban all IRC Cloud users in stead. That is a "potential problem."

Here's a real life example of the same:

Say I own a sports car that I'd designed to be completely safe going 120 mph. Say I even have professional race training that makes me a safe driver going 120+ mph. This is all cast aside if a cop stops me for going 95 mph in a 55 zone.

The fact is, the rule is there to govern the many and avoid potential problems and damage. If you don't like the laws of the channel, then just as in the real world, you have the freedom to find another channel/country that does not have the same laws.

BTW, I do want to say that you have been a good helper in the past, and I believe even I have gotten some help from you. So we do greatly appreciate that.

[BC_Programmer]

Yes, I know that the UID that IRC Cloud generates is unique and static, however, the overall hostmask method that the use is also unique. So if someone goes to ban a user that is using IRC Cloud using the regular ban method, they ban all IRC Cloud users in stead. That is a "potential problem."

That's only a "potential problem" if the person banning hasn't a clue how IRC works. And if that is the case, why do they have permission to make those sorts of changes such as banning people?.

Your previous mention that they might be "immune to kick" is complete nonsense and could only come from somebody who doesn't have the first clue about AOP lists; or somebody trying to influence and justify actions to a set of people that they don't think would understand how demonstrably false the claim is.

Here's a real life example of the same:

Great, a car analogy.

Say I own a sports car that I'd designed to be completely safe going 120 mph. Say I even have professional race training that makes me a safe driver going 120+ mph. This is all cast aside if a cop stops me for going 95 mph in a 55 zone.

This is not analogous. By your own admission the 'rule' is in place because the OPs don't know what they are doing- First you make demonstrably false claims such as "[try to kick] and can't because he is sharing with a HOP who is immune to /kick or whatever." Which show that AOP lists are beyond one's grasp. AOP lists are what Gives people H/OP- notice how it only gives you +h/+o/etc if you have identified? Yeah that's called 'nickserv working as intended'. And people using the same Cloud server are NOT going to suddenly be immune from kick or ban because they are on the same server as another OP unless the people performing th ban have no clue how to create a banmask- which seems to be the case by your own admission where you say 'using the regular ban method'

That makes sense since the 'regular ban method' is usually *!*.<hostmask>...

However is it not a HOP/Op's job to understand the basic workings of what they are dealing with? Why is the blame for not understanding ban masks suddenly Immental's 'problem'? Why is it so hard to use /mode +b nick!user@*.* (replacing user with the IRC Cloud userID ) or even using a wildcard on 'nick', as in *!user@*.*?

I can only think of two reasons.

The first is that the people with the ability to ban have no basic understanding of how IRC hostmasks and ban masks work and have decided to move the burden by creating arbitrary rules that serve only to make them be able to avoid actually understanding the tech they are using. This is possible but I'm not really convinced it is the case. Far more likely, it's just a unnecessary, pointless reason created to justify Immental's banning- justification which was never needed anyway, because it's IRC. I mean people have been banned for having Nicknames that one of the h/ops doesn't like, so it's not like there is some elaborate ruleset being followed- it's just whim as it would be on any IRC channel.

IMO weaving complete fabrications and demonstrably false information about how IRC works in order to somehow justify a ban on somebody by deciding that the tech they were using- shared by many others who are in fact in that channel still- is worse than just saying "he was banned because we do not want him in the channel". Is it that hard to say that? It's not like you really NEED a good reason to ban a person from an IRC channel to begin with, so the fact that there are people scrambling to confabulate such reasons doesn't make any sense. Why do you need to make up this senseless and obviously fabricated nonsense in order to convince stupid people who don't understand the basics of IRC and how banmasks work that the ban was somehow justified when the only real reason he was banned was because you don't like him there? And I can identify with that personally because I've been tempted to kick/ban him as well but then there would have been explanations... but at least I would have been forthright in saying "I don't want him here because he sometimes annoys the piss out of me" rather than fabricating some elaborate set of contrived "reasons" that don't stand up to basic scrutiny.

The fact is, the rule is there to govern the many and avoid potential problems and damage. If you don't like the laws of the channel, then just as in the real world, you have the freedom to find another channel/country that does not have the same laws.

Except that speed limits are on signs. They aren't made up on the spot by the police officer when they decide they don't like the guy they pulled over, while other users speed by at the same high speeds. The difference here is that unlike a Police Officer IRC operators are well within their capabilities to kick and ban people for whatever reason they choose, as long as they can answer for those decisions with their fellow Operators.

I'd say the confabulating of information to create justifications is the silly part. If somebody is annoying, ban them because they are annoying, not because of some fabricated rule. I find the rantings and ravings of the "victims" (And I put those in quotes for a reason) to be a bigger pain in the *censored* because they somehow feel IRC should be fair. If they knew they were banned because everybody found them annoying rather than for some made up reason they might actually decide to stay away on their own accord, rather than act indignant about filling Nathan's inbox with pointless complaints. That's the part I never understood. They get banned, feel that they were "unfairly treated" (Hello, it's IRC, Move on) And then somehow decide, "you know what will get me unbanned and get their respect? If I threaten them by going over their head to  somebody who has already demonstrated almost total apathy towards me! Yeah this cannot possibly go wrong!" Except it does. Because it just means more animousity towards  that user who they already didn't like very much and now reasonably have an even greater reason to dislike. I mean, is being able to go into a single computer help IRC channel important enough for you to disrupt the other helpers? I mean just go on some other one. If you don't agree how a IRC channel is run- go to another one. If you don't get on with one of the OPs in a Computer Help channel- go on a another one. Is this so hard? A person get's banned and all too often they feel like a martyr for some idiotic 'war' that exists only in their head- and yet they continue to want to go there? What kind of sick individuals would WANT to keep going to a channel where they feel they are 'unfairly treated'?

[kyle_engineer]

BC_Programmer,

While I admitedly do not know all of the ins and out of the functions of IRC, I do know that I have not been able to kick/ban players for some unknown reason (at the time). It may have had to do with their hostmask being shared, maybe not. Honestly, I could have had the command scripted wrongly in the past. Nonetheless you are missing a crucial point - this is MY opinion based on MY experiences.

While I may not know all of the ins and out of the framework of IRC, I think this is the lowest importance qualifier for a HOP. Respect, morality and a sense of fairness is far more important. It is obvious that you find it acceptable to kick/ban because you don't like a person - I do not. I believe the truth is that, just as in the forums, a person should be granted a degree of civility and respect in how they are treated. Just because IRC is another method of communicating does not mean that the same basic rules of civility do not apply. Respect begets respect. I personally want people to recommend CH to their friends and family when they are in a bind - and that will not happen if we had the same ideas as you have expressed.

The simple point I'm expressing is that IF a hop does not see that a person is using a cloud account, and the use the regular method (which I personally have set to a single-click button) then pop goes all IRCCloud clients. Just as (since you don't like car analogies) IF you were to play with fire, you could get burned.

And, while a speed limit sign may be posted, that does not cover wreckless endangerment (which is completely up to the discretion of the officer. Nor do MANY laws require a posting. Take Jay Walking, as an example - no damage, no signs prohibiting it or showing limitations - yet you get a ticket all the same. Same with curfew laws (which almost every state has for people under 18).

Furthermore, I feel that your response was highly generalized and quite unecessarily critical. I'm not sure why you got so worked up so as to write an article attemptedly riping MY pov to shreds, but it is quite rude and I don't appreciate it. It'd do you some good to try being a little more respectful of others.

So the Op/Hop's should have to do more work because you choose to use it ?

Twisted logic.
Bottom line...become a productive Member of the Chat community and stop being high maintenence.

I think that sums it up pretty well.

P.S.

BTW, I do want to say that you have been a good helper in the past, and I believe even I have gotten some help from you. So we do greatly appreciate that.

In case you missed that point.

[lostcoast]

Using a service to flame the chat and getting banned from using that service any longer in the chat...wow what a complicated concept...LOL

And those who don't abuse the service can stay...  so simple ...bans over, use your home ISP or a different service..not allot of thinking needed.

[immental1200]

Using a service to flame the chat and getting banned from using that service any longer in the chat...wow what a complicated concept...LOL

And those who don't abuse the service can stay...  so simple ...bans over, use your home ISP or a different service..not allot of thinking needed.

So, you've just told me that use of a service is fine, so long as it isn't IRC Cloud.

If I go and use another BNC, there would be no difference... I'd be connected 24/7 and have a static hostmask, exactly the same.

So why can't you just unban IRC Cloud?

Your argument has no basis, logic or reasoning to it.

[Calum]

IRC Cloud is not banned...several regulars in the chat use it.
I agree that the reasoning given in this thread appears to make no sense at all, perhaps there's another explanation...

[BC_Programmer]

I missed the reply before.

It is obvious that you find it acceptable to kick/ban because you don't like a person - I do not.

It's IRC. LostCoast is the only Op, so, essentially, in that domain of the channel he is god and HE determines what is acceptable. and I mean that without sarcasm. The fact that many HOPs might NOT find a ban of such whimsy acceptable is the reason they have to weave such ridiculous reasons to try to fit it into their own ethics.

I believe the truth is that, just as in the forums, a person should be granted a degree of civility and respect in how they are treated.

You hang out in the wrong channel then, since that seldom seems to be de juere.

Just because IRC is another method of communicating does not mean that the same basic rules of civility do not apply.

I'm not the one that decided to ban a channel just because he didn't like some of the people that also hung out there. I'm also not the one that continues to make stupid Jokes about it in CH. I'm also not the one who is now visiting that channel at least once every few days to tell us the people in that channel are pathetic, then run back to the channel on which we are banned and say how we are all cowards because we won't face them... forgetting of course that we aren't going to be bothered to jump through the hoops that have been laid out that make joining the channel a pain in the *censored* but still ridiculously easy.

I find it a strange coincidence also that suddenly, after this, we are suddenly getting at least one person per day visiting our channel asking for serious help. I find that too much of a coincidence considering the Channel Topic doesn't say anything about being a Computer Help Channel and the site that might lead them to it has been dead since Jan 2012. The fact that on at least one occasion somebody "looking for help" had the same hostmask as a member who frequented the CH chat and almost certainly had more experience than their questions indicated doesn't make any sense.

I personally want people to recommend CH to their friends and family when they are in a bind - and that will not happen if we had the same ideas as you have expressed.

Question then. Right now, I cannot join #computerhope.

Why am I banned? I didn't do anything that I'm aware of to get banned. What exactly does it accomplish to require me to /part another channel before joining it? it just means i need to use another server connection. It literally changes nothing, all it does is make a statement about how vacuous and arbitrary the decisions about how the channel is run can be. I'm saying 'that's Fine' since at this point it is a Channel almost entirely disconnected from the Forums, considering there are some huge discrepancies in advice (eg. the Chat recommends Registry Cleaners and Privacy-invading Driver Search software, whereas the forum has posts by myself and others showing they are without merit

The simple point I'm expressing is that IF a hop does not see that a person is using a cloud account, and the use the regular method (which I personally have set to a single-click button) then pop goes all IRCCloud clients. Just as (since you don't like car analogies) IF you were to play with fire, you could get burned.

Ignoring for the moment that your car analogy doesn't actually involve a car, this is not the problem of the people visiting the chat. If a person is too incompetent to create a proper script or other command, that's their problem, not the visitors. That's like trying to say that Nobody should be able to wear blue jackets while visiting a club because if they get banned the bouncers might stop letting other people with blue jackets in. It's not the people with blue jackets that are the problem, it's the colour-blind bouncers. And that doesn't even cover the fact that Many users in #computerhope are still using that service. The ban was instituted because He wanted to ban Immental1200. Either the real reason was because he was an annoying troublemaker or just because he wasn't wanted to hang around, but my point is that the reason is not because he was using IRCCloud at all, so that reasoning was a post-hoc justification, and all the 'justifications' that yourself and others have tried to made are nothing more than "Post hoc ergo propter hoc".

Furthermore, I feel that your response was highly generalized and quite unecessarily critical.

That's nice. Wait till you read this one. The problem is you are trying to defend what was a completely vacuous and completely arbitrary and entirely specious reasoning to institute a ban on anybody in an entirely separate channel. This is the reason why I stopped visiting CH, since I'd just end up in the same boat as camerongray, having the sheer audacity to point out to 'established helpers' that, no, Windows Home Premium DOES have Aero, or that GeForce is not a Video card manufacturer, or that, no, Video cards to not have to be branded "BY LAW". The one debate I was in with DB was enough for me the dismiss any ability of the entire channel. if that guy is respected as actually knowing what he is talking about, the only way I'd ever fit in is if I had a map so I could find my *censored* when I go to the bathroom.

I'm not sure why you got so worked up so as to write an article attemptedly riping MY pov to shreds, but it is quite rude and I don't appreciate it. It'd do you some good to try being a little more respectful of others.

You are trying to defend, as I mentioned, a vacuous, and completely arbitrary decision by inventing even more vacuous justifications of your own. The only Justification that makes sense is pretty much that LC has the ultimate say and does what he wants. If you want to delude yourself into thinking their is some reasonable structure of rules and regulations, that's your perogative, but you're deluding yourself. Is instantly assuming based on a person's hostmask being in a given geopolitical location that they are using pirated software "respectful", for example?

[/quote]

[bacon buttie]

Now I don't usually comment or post in regards to these pointless thread's but felt that this was worth a post.

As there was a couple of help's ongoing during Immental1200's silly rant, I have edited out the parts of the log that have no relation to what Immental1200 was ranting about.


Monday, November 4th, 2013


10:18 PM <Immental1200> https://db.tt/KdduqKZ8 - click the Add button.
10:18 PM <Immental1200> Type the name where I put username - https://db.tt/n8JtUWD0
10:18 PM <Immental1200> And then click OK.
10:18 PM <Immental1200> Tick the full control box.
10:19 PM <rockets1201> this will not fix his issue, going in a loop .. repair is the soltuion
10:21 PM  → BATCH_of_cookies and Pentium (was guest_23) joined 
10:24 PM <Pentium> Hello
10:26 PM → baconbuttie joined ([email protected])
10:32 PM <Pentium> anyone need help
10:33 PM <Immental1200> Yeah, my Pentium processor exploded, what can I do about it?
10:33 PM <Pentium> exploded...
10:35 PM <Immental1200> Yeah, literally.
10:35 PM <rockets1201> pay mu bills
10:35 PM <rockets1201> my*
10:35 PM <Immental1200> Bam. Smoke. Metal bits all over the case.
10:35 PM <loonytoon> Immental1200: cut the crap, its not funny
10:35 PM <Immental1200> Must I ask why one person is connected to this channel via three usernames?
10:36 PM <Pentium> Immental1200: um just check the rest of the computers commonents for any damagee
10:36 PM <loonytoon> Immental1200: no
10:36 PM <Immental1200> I was joking Pentium...
10:36 PM <Pentium> and ull probably need to cahnge ur PSU
10:36 PM <Immental1200> I have always wondered why you need to be connected under three usernames. I've also              wondered why you are no longer in #mibbit or #help with your usual nickname.
10:37 PM <loonytoon> Immental1200: not your concern
10:37 PM <Immental1200> Then again, I've wondered why I'm the only user not allowed to use IRC Cloud... yet I'm apparently allowed to use a standard BNC bouncer...
10:37 PM <rockets1201> Immental1200: mind your own business
10:37 PM <Immental1200> I think you'll find my last point, is MY business.
10:37 PM <Pentium> ] I was recently making a new user account on my windows 8 laptop, but during the proces my laptop shut down and the user account wasnt finished. [2:30:09 PM] Everytime i turn on my computer, due to window 8 auto log in the last user feature, windows auto logs in the account taht wan't finished(no password) [2:30:18 PM] all it shows is a blanks screen Daniel:
10:37 PM <loonytoon> Immental1200: jeez,you dont know when to stop do you ?
10:37 PM <Pentium> lol sorry
10:38 PM <lostcoast> If you want to make waves go play at the beach
10:38 PM <Pentium> okay the frekin windows support guys is no help
10:38 PM <Immental1200> Why am I being talked to from two usernames by the same guy.
10:38 PM <Pentium> keeps sending premade messages
10:38 PM <Immental1200> Can you get in under safemode Pentium?
10:39 PM %loonytoon was halfopped (+h) by ChanServ

He then joins via his mobile network and quit his mibbit client

10:50 PM → simpleirc joined ([email protected])
10:50 PM ⇐ Immental1200 quit ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client
10:50 PM  simpleirc → Edwards 
10:50 PM  simpleirc → simpleirc1
10:50 PM  simpleirc1 → Edwards

10:51 PM → Immental12000 joined ([email protected])
10:51 PM <Immental12000> irc.geekshed.net - #bleepingcomputer - these people are retarded. Leave. Seriously. While they seem harmless now, they will screw you over. Majorly. lostcoast = loonytoon = battlecam = retarded. Get proper PC help elsewhere. This place is a joke. They no longer follow the rules. Lostcoast is a power controlling freak. Run. Run for your lives...
10:52 PM Channel ban set for *[email protected] (+b) by %loonytoon
10:53 PM ← Immental12000 was kicked by BattleCam ([email protected]): BattleCam

Then he returns as Edwards for a troll

10:54 PM <Edwards> what just happened
10:54 PM <Edwards> uuuh silly nick
10:55 PM Edwards → Edwards22
10:55 PM <Edwards22> who's lostcoast
10:55 PM <baconbuttie> Edwards22: why ?
10:56 PM <Pentium> Edwards22: a......mod
10:56 PM <Edwards22> why did the mental guy say hd was stuff
10:56 PM <Edwards22> he
10:56 PM <Pentium> lol the mental guy got baned
10:56 PM <Edwards22> says kicked 4 me
10:56 PM <Pentium> but the chat usually lifts it after a couple months
10:56 PM <Edwards22> months?!
10:56 PM ← Edwards22 was kicked by loonytoon ([email protected]): loonytoon
10:58 PM → Edwards22 joined ([email protected])
10:58 PM <Edwards22> what the *censored* guys
10:58 PM <Edwards22> why was I kicked
10:58 PM <Pentium> Edwards22: edward stop talkign before u get kicked for months
10:59 PM ← Edwards22 was kicked by loonytoon ([email protected]): your not fooling no one
10:59 PM → Edwards22 joined ([email protected])
11:00 PM Channel ban set for *!*@*.threembb.co.uk (+b) by %BattleCam
11:00 PM ← Edwards22 was kicked by BattleCam ([email protected]): BattleCam


11:09 PM guest_71 → Immental1200
11:09 PM <Immental1200> http://pastebin.com/s7XNMcj9 - Lostcoast, this is my final farewell to you. I've got an 18 page word document, with Nathan's name at the top of it. I'm going to let him have it for free, as a little... Christmas present. It contains a history of your abuse, your mishaps, your poor choices and your dodgy doings. It contains information on what needs fixing the Hopebot, the issues with the current halfop team and other channel related issues. It mainly focuses however, on how you're a complete idiot. With no idea what you're doing, a power hungry agenda and similar topics. Don't worry, I've given Nathan a few willing replacements to take over and repair your damage. Whilst I may not be back for a while, I'm sure that once action is taken - you'll never come back. The chat will then return to being a better place, a safe community, and a supported help environment. Where your reign of terror and abuse is non-existent. Rockets, you're a moron. Azander, you need to learn to shut up. Pentium, you're a new guy with an attitude problem, drop it. Baconbuttie,
you used to be my favourite until you bowed down to the terror that is lostcoast. For those not currently online - Db, you're a lying moron. Guitarman I wish you well. PCDoc, keep on going. Camerongray, your help was excellent. BCProgramming, you were always sensible. Thanks to the other helpers, well done to the trolls that succedded, and good on you
11:10 PM Channel ban set for *[email protected] (+b) by %loonytoon
11:10 PM ← Immental1200 was kicked by loonytoon ([email protected]): loonytoon
11:15 PM Channel ban set for *!*@*.seq.org (+b) by %BattleCam
11:18 PM Channel ban set for *!*@*.range86-189.btcentralplus.com (+b) by %BattleCam

[BC_Programmer]

Now I don't usually comment or post in regards to these pointless thread's but felt that this was worth a post.

It was, Thank you. My suppositions and mentions above were entirely off-base about him. It's clear now also that he is the person responsible for redirecting users to GPC from CH. I do like the irony of how he made that "Lostcoastisanidiot" channel and acted all proud of it, and yet when somebody made an immentalisanidiot channel suddenly it's childish.

I may not agree entirely with much of the advice given in that Channel, but it's also true that there is simply a hella-lot of people asking for help, and people getting inaccurate or even bad advice is definitely a exception rather than the rule.

Either way, that is outright trolling, plain and simple.

this is my final farewell to you. I've got an 18 page word document, with Nathan's name at the top of it. I'm going to let him have it for free, as a little... Christmas present. It contains a history of your abuse, your mishaps, your poor choices and your dodgy doings.

He is... uh... persistent, I guess. To the tone of being insane. I mean, when you write a manifesto about an IRC channel OP you don't like, that's a clear indication that you need a new hobby or two. I think I've suggested basket weaving in the past.

Don't worry, I've given Nathan a few willing replacements to take over and repair your damage. Whilst I may not be back for a while, I'm sure that once action is taken - you'll never come back.

Action will not be taken because it's not needed. Action has been taken, really- quite clearly he needed to be banned for good. No doubt he'll use this as some example of power being 'grabbed' or usurped or something.

The chat will then return to being a better place, a safe community, and a supported help environment.

Because Immental1200 has always been such a helpful member, right, and totally has never been a troublemaker before.

BCProgramming, you were always sensible.

Ignoring the fact that I could personally find more than one instance where this is entirely untrue, I don't see why he would be addressing me in a channel I'm never in. I don't exactly like becoming an unwilling participant in his little rants, nor do I like the revelation that he's been lying the entire time and has just become a rabble rouser. Come to think of it, he's probably the one using alts and joining our channel pretending to be some of you guys from CH. Suddenly the puzzle pieces are fitting together.

In any case I still think the entire affair was rather roundabout. Should have just banned him because he has been a longstanding troublemaker, and stated outright that was the reason. No doubt he'd ramble about that too, but there is a modicum of evidence in the form of these sorts of logs that show a clear pattern of unwelcome self-righteousness that shouldn't be tolerated. using half-invented reasons such as those here just serves to give him ammunition for his tirades of indignation. Banned- Reason: 'You're a pain in the *censored* and constantly causing trouble', done. Both of which would be true anyway.

The fact that he thinks his 18 page essay will actually be read is almost as cute as him thinking it will actually have any effect.