Win 7 vs Win 7 with SP1

[artbuc]

Need to buy for a clean install on a new HD on my S-I-L's old HP Pavilion 753n rig. It came with Win 7 Home Edition. HD is failing and was too late to image. Macrium Reflect gave it the good ole college try but it would not work. I assume the 753n can handle SP1 but I do not know pros/cons or if it even matters? Thanks. 

[patio]

If you are doing a clean install on the same PC and you have the COA code no need to buy Win7 again...
You can DLoad a version from Digital River and use your liscense key to activate...
Completely legit to do so.

[patio]

P.S. the Editions have to match...

[camerongray]

As patio said, as long as you have a valid licence and key you can just download the media to install it - http://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/14709-Windows-7-Digital-River-direct-links-Multiple-Languages-X86-amp-X64/page59?p=470600&viewfull=1#post470600

That said, I would never consider buying a new copy of Windows 7 for that machine, you would be looking at spending $100 on Windows after already spending $60 on a hard drive, this is simply not at all worth it for a machine that old.  There is a time when a PC is simply too old that you start wasting money trying to keep it going, For $160 you could easily find a second hand PC that would be much newer and more powerful.  I felt that $60 for the hard drive was already more than the machine was worth, throwing another $100 at it would be silly.

To answer your original question, like any Windows update you should have SP1 installed as it provides a lot of security and other patches to the OS.

[artbuc]

Thanks Cameronguy but my S-I-L wants this machine fixed up, no if's and's or but's.

[artbuc]

If you are doing a clean install on the same PC and you have the COA code no need to buy Win7 again...
You can DLoad a version from Digital River and use your liscense key to activate...
Completely legit to do so.

Where would I find the Product Code? I wonder if it is on the outside of her tower? I think mine is.

[camerongray]

It would be stuck on the tower on a sticker or in a box with the DVD which you don't have, this is of course assuming the original copy was genuine.

Thanks Cameronguy but my S-I-L wants this machine fixed up, no if's and's or but's.

Just ensure she does realise that she could easily get a much better machine for the same if not less money, a lot of people don't realise this and think that fixing their existing one will work out cheaper.

[artbuc]

It would be stuck on the tower on a sticker or in a box with the DVD which you don't have, this is of course assuming the original copy was genuine.
Just ensure she does realise that she could easily get a much better machine for the same if not less money, a lot of people don't realise this and think that fixing their existing one will work out cheaper.

It came installed on the machine which she purchased new from a reputable company so I assume all is legit. She does not care too much about the money angle, she primarily wants to keep everything the same as long as she can. If $60 buys her one more year, she will be happy. Where could she get a much better machine for $60 or less?

[artbuc]

P.S. the Editions have to match...

Does this mean I can download only Win 7 and must later add SP1? I will have to check her machine. Would her original Win7 install have been automatically updated to Win 7 w/SP1 as part of routine updates?

[camerongray]

In that case the company would have included a sticker on the case which will have the product key printed on it or would have included a DVD with the product key in the box.

Where could she get a much better machine for $60 or less?

eBay has quite a lot of used Core 2 Duo machines for under $60 but I was more thinking about the $160 if you ended up buying  a copy of Windows as well which could easily get you a Core 2 Quad or even better machine with Windows 7.

[artbuc]

Thanks again Cameronguy. I would not have a clue about buying a used machine...chances are pretty good I would end up in a worse position, lol.

[SuperDave]

Look here for direct downloads of Win 7. Click here for good buys on refurbished computers.

[artbuc]

Ok, now I will show you how computer dumb I am. How can I download Win 7 onto a new hard drive? I will not have a browser to connect to the internet. Do I have to download it to a different external storage device? How do I then get it onto the new hard drive? Thanks.

[SuperDave]

If you go down to the third page you will find the ISO images which can be downloaded using the computer that you're presently using to post here. Next, you will need to burn the ISO image to a disk. You can use this ISO burner. Finally, you boot your computer with the the disk in the drive and install Windows 7.Just make sure you download the correct version for your computer.

ISO burner can be found here.

[Geek-9pm]

Ok, now I will show you how computer dumb I am. How can I download Win 7 onto a new hard drive? I will not have a browser to connect to the internet. Do I have to download it to a different external storage device? How do I then get it onto the new hard drive? Thanks.

You need a second computer to make the DVD with Windows 7 on it.
Or get friend to help you.

[artbuc]

Finally, you boot your computer with the the disk in the drive and install Windows 7.Just make sure you download the correct version for your computer.

ISO burner can be found here.

Ok, I use the DVD disk I will burn with my computer to boot-up the computer with the brand new hard drive, right? Will the DVD disk have the image of the entire Win 7 OS? By version, I assume you mean Win 7 Home Edition. IOW, Win 7 Home Edition is the same version as Win 7 Home Edition with SP1. Finally, will the ISO image be current or will I have to install a lot of updates?

Brainstorm (or brain fart?). Why can't I use my Win 7 w/SP1 OEM disk to install and then activate with her Prod Code?

[artbuc]

Good Morning folks! Since my last post with many questions, I have been googling away trying to find my own answers because I do not expect to be spoonfed. However, the more I read, the more confused I get. I understand (roughly) how to download/make a Win7 install DVD from DigitalRiver. But, I am looking for an easier way. My question boils down to:

Is it legal and doable to use my Win7 w/SP1 Home Edition OEM disk to do a clean install on another PC that came with Win7 Home Edition and then activate with the original COA? I do not understand the difference between install files and the OS itself. Also, it seems to make a difference if the original Win7 install was OEM or retail.

I am not trying to do anything fishy. Just looking for the easiest way. Thanks.

Will someone please explain what paragraph 1b means?
http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Desktop-Operating-Systems-Software-Recovery/How-to-Install-Windows-7-Without-the-Disc/td-p/2598505

[artbuc]

Ok, I will yield on this one. While I think I can use my OEM disk with my S-I-L's COA Product Key, I am not 100% sure. Therefore I will buy blank DVD and burn the ISO image as you have suggested.

I still hope someone answers my question about versions. What defines the same version? 32 vs 64 bit? Win7 Home Edition vs Win7 Home Edition w/SP1? Home Edition vs Professional Edition? Some combo of these. I ask because her PC came with Win7 Home Edition w/o SP1 and I would like to (maybe have to?) install SP1.

[Geek-9pm]

Windows 7 Home and Windows 7 home SP-1 are the same for the license. The same product key is for both. But you may not use both at the same time. Orly one instance is allowed.
When you activate windows 7, it connects to a Microsoft server and verifies the product key with a  database. Any attempt to have the system active on two different computers with the same key is not allowed.

If you come to a problem and the system tells  you the key is not valid, you have to call Microsoft on the phone and talk to an agent. They will determine if what you are doing is allowed or not. But for OEM versions they will tell you to contact the maker of the computer.

The current retail cost of a legal copy of Windows 7 is rather high. That is why Super Dave mentioned the purchase of a refurbished PC. The companies that repair old computers and resell them get a special feral from Microsoft. Such PCs are sometimes sold for just a title more over  the cost of the retail Windows 7 DVD.
Examples from eBay:
-----
Windows 7 Ultimate 64 Bit Full Retail Version
    $99.99
-----
Dell Optiplex FX160 Mini PC With Stand , Windows 7 Pro, Office 2010
   $119.99

As you can see, if you are thinking of buying Widows to repair a PC that may have other issues, you need to think carefully. Do you really know the Operating System is all you need to fix the old computer?  One must check and see if the refurbished computer has a useful  warranty.  If so, it would be the safer choice. IMHO.

[artbuc]

Geek, here is the problem as I understand it. The hard drive (the original 80GB) is beginning to fail. It will not defrag, it is making a lot of weird noises and Macrium Reflect can not make an image of it. So, when I install the new hard drive I have to do a clean install of Win 7. I have copied/pasted all of her docs/files onto an external hard drive. She does not have recovery disks. I have an OEM Win 7 w/SP1 disk I used on my PC to upgrade from XP. I have not personally checked yet, but I assume she has a valid COA Product Key from the original purchase. With this valid Product Key, I can download an ISO image of Win7 and burn it onto a DVD for install. I just hate to spend $10 for a pack of 10 DVD's, 9 of which will never get used. That is why I asked if I could use my OEM disk with her original Product Key to get Win 7 installed and legally activated. Seems like this should be easy to do and very acceptable to MS. There may be other things wrong with her rig but it seems to be working fine except for the failing hard drive. Right or wrong, she feels like spending $60 to keep her PC going is worth it, even if only for another 6-12 months.

[patio]

Even with a valid COA the OEM may or may not hiccup on the installl...depending on whose it is as some are wired to look for the original hardware and will stop if they do not see it...

However it's well worth a try...all you'll lose is 20 minutes of your life...

[artbuc]

Even with a valid COA the OEM may or may not hiccup on the installl...depending on whose it is as some are wired to look for the original hardware and will stop if they do not see it...

However it's well worth a try...all you'll lose is 20 minutes of your life...

Interesting. We both have HP Pavilion's so maybe that increases the chances for success. I did buy the DVD's today but will not open the box until I try my OEM disk first. I am not worried because I finally feel like I have a good understanding of the ISO image download. I did a test download and it worked great. As soon as the download was complete, I was automatically prompted to burn the DVD (Windows DVD Maker). I do not even have to download 3rd Party DVD burn software.

PS My old rig is running better than ever. 3GB RAM, new LG DVD/CD drive, almost new WD SATA HD and GT610 graphics card were well worth it IMHO. She could go belly-up any day but I am enjoying her while she lasts!

[SuperDave]

You could always use the other DVD's as storage devices so it's not a total loss.

[patio]

As soon as the download was complete, I was automatically prompted to burn the DVD (Windows DVD Maker). I do not even have to download 3rd Party DVD burn software.

You may want to test to see if that DVD is bootable and works properly...an ISO cannot simply be burned...

[artbuc]

You may want to test to see if that DVD is bootable and works properly...an ISO cannot simply be burned...

What? I thought the whole purpose of using the Digital River download was to get a bootable DVD?

[patio]

It is...however i fear all the windows app does is copy the ISO...it needs to be unpacked properly and made bootable...
I use a freebie called IMGBurn for this step...

[artbuc]

It is...however i fear all the windows app does is copy the IOS...it needs to be unpacked properly and made bootable...
I use a freebie called IMGBurn for this step...

Nuf said. Thanks so much!

[artbuc]

Ok. IMGBurn installed. I set the Win DVD Maker app so it will default open IMGBurn. Was that the correct action?

[patio]

Not necessary...just Open IMGBurn...point it to the ISO...select create bootable DVD and proceed...

[artbuc]

Not necessary...just Open IMGBurn...point it to the ISO...select create bootable DVD and proceed...

I will try but when I did my test download and the Win DVD maker app automatically opened, I did not have a choice to save the downloaded ISO image. When I declined to burn a DVD I lost the image. However, based on your advice, I do not anticipate a problem. Thank-you for walking me through this.

[patio]

Just DLoad a fresh copy...however i suspect the ISO is there somewhere...probably in your DLoad folder...

[artbuc]

It came installed on the machine which she purchased new from a reputable company so I assume all is legit. She does not care too much about the money angle, she primarily wants to keep everything the same as long as she can. If $60 buys her one more year, she will be happy. Where could she get a much better machine for $60 or less?

Time to abort? I just realized this rig was purchased years before Win7 was launched so it must have come with XP. My S-I-L's ex son-in-law (too many in-laws!) took care of the PC as my S-I-L and her hubby do not know or care anything about PC's. I assume the ex son-in-law installed Win7 at some point and I have no idea if it is legit or not.

Also, just saw a great 2 part Youtube video of a guy who inherited a HP 753n from his grandfather's estate. He seemed to know a lot about computers. He said in the early 2000's it was unusual for PC's to have recovery partitions and HP came out with them sooner than most. Also, some came with hidden recovery partitions. If this rig has a recovery partition it much be hidden. Makes sense because available space on C and D is only 70GB on an 80GB HD. Of course, restoring to XP as it was in 2004 would not be much help. He also commented that if the power supply went out he would have to get a new case.

Finally, I just read a MS article which said a downloaded ISO image could only be used to install on the same PC. This article was talking about ISO images purchased from the MS store. Maybe ISO images downloaded from Digital River are differential. I think her machine can play but not burn DVD's.

I am beginning to think the view is not worth the climb on this one, especially as Cameronguy already pointed out, if she has to buy a new OS.

[patio]

Look up the procedure for accessing the hidden Recovery Partition...
Then we'll go from there...

[artbuc]

Look up the procedure for accessing the hidden Recovery Partition...
Then we'll go from there...

Yes, I know how to do this based on the YouTube video (he did a destructive recovery) plus I read a HP article. With the damaged hard drive who knows what will happen plus days of post recovery updates.

[patio]

Your choice...keep us posted.

[artbuc]

Your choice...keep us posted.

I'm back...had to leave in a hurry. I need to ascertain if the currently installed Win7 is legit and has a COA Prod Key that can be used for a clean re-install. If not, I hope I can convince SIL to go another direction. Depending on what SIL's ex son-in-law did, I wonder if the original XP COA Prod Key could still be valid and used to legitimately upgrade to Win7?

[SuperDave]

You can use this program to recover the key.

[camerongray]

The best trick I know to see if a copy of Windows is genuine if there is no COA is to recovery the key using the tool that SuperDave mentioned above then type the key into Google.  If the key is genuine then you shouldn't get any real results, however if it is a pirated key you will get loads of links to dodgy pirate websites that mention the key that is in use.

[artbuc]

The best trick I know to see if a copy of Windows is genuine if there is no COA is to recovery the key using the tool that SuperDave mentioned above then type the key into Google.  If the key is genuine then you shouldn't get any real results, however if it is a pirated key you will get loads of links to dodgy pirate websites that mention the key that is in use.

Thanks. I will do that. I also sent an email asking how he installed 7 and if the disk was new or used and, if used, did the previous owner deactivate so it could legally be used to activate on another PC. Considering the nature of the questions and the amount of time he has been out of the picture, I do not expect an answer. I assume the disk is not OEM because it is not labelled as such. Why can't I just go into System Properties and see the key? I hope to get to the PC today or tomorrow and will let you know what I find out.

PS. If the Prod Key is legit, do I have to deactivate it on the old hard drive before using it for a clean install on the new hard drive? Since the clean install will be on the same PC, I am thinking it does not have to be deactivated?

[patio]

What exactly does it say on the CD ? ?

[artbuc]

What exactly does it say on the CD ? ?

I don't remember as I just glanced at it. At that time I did not realize the significance. I know it said Win 7 Home Premium. It was a color (yellow?) whereas my OEM is silver. Of course my disk is much newer with SP1 and Win Anytime Upgrade. Mine also says "Intended for distribution with a new PC."

On my PC, at the bottom of System Properties is info re System Activation. It gives links to a lot of good info about how to determine if your OS is legit. One thing I learned is that MS checks your OS when you get updates. Don't have genuine OS, don't get updates. So another thing I will check is the status of updates.

I tried Cameronguy's suggestion with my Prod Key and got no hits. Did not expect any as I personally bought my disk from a reputable supplier plus MS validated my key when I did the upgrade.

[patio]

Find the CD and tell us what it says on it...

[artbuc]

Find the CD and tell us what it says on it...

Will do plus will post a picture if I can figure out how.

[artbuc]

Find the CD and tell us what it says on it...

Good news! Just got off the phone with ex son-in-law. He purchased the Win 7 Home Edition himself from BestBuy. He said at the time MS allowed it to be used on multiple PC's (he could not remember for sure but thinks it is 3 or 5). He has it installed only on his PC and my SIL's PC. Must have been the now defunct Family Pack. He also told me he had to upgrade RAM to 1 GB. That rings true because I believe that PC did come with just 1 512 stick and only has 2 slots. Both Crucial and HP say this rig can only take 1 GB of RAM. He attempted to recover to the as purchased state but could not do it because of the failing hard drive. When I get my hands on the PC I will describe the Win7 disk and see if the Prod Key has been activated and validated. UPS just delivered the WD HD so we are getting close to show time. 

[patio]

Family Pack allowed 5 personal installs...so yer good to go...

[Geek-9pm]

Why did Windows 8 remove the family pack upgrade?  

That is because Windows 7 had the family pack upgrade and a lot of people didn't like it when they took away the Windows 8 upgrade Family Pack.

[artbuc]

Family Pack allowed 5 personal installs...so yer good to go...

Not so fast! I freaking forgot to ask him what the Prod Key is! I did a test drive with ProduKey on my PC and it worked so hopefully it will work on SIL's. I did shoot him another email to see if he still has the key. I did not realize that the number listed in System Properties is just the Product ID.

PS. Pretty sure it was 3, not 5. Looks like you can still buy on Amazon for a small fortune.

http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Windows-Premium-Upgrade-Version/dp/B002MV2MG0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1407893204&sr=8-1&keywords=windows+7+family+pack

[artbuc]

EUREKA!! I have the Product Key in hand. Will probably install new HD this weekend. The Win 7 disk is from 2009. Does anyone have any idea how long it will take for Windows to update? I have a pretty fast Verizon FIOS internet connection but 5 years worth of updates? Like we discussed earlier, I could try to install my Win 7 disk but it has SP1 and I am not sure SIL's rig can handle SP1.

[artbuc]

Ok....did a clean install of 32 bit Win7 with SP1 & Anytime Upgrade onto a new 160GB IDE HD. Product Key was right and MS validated install. Successfully installed updates and pasted back documents and files. Everything seems to be working ok EXCEPT the install has some differences which do not seem right. Eg, I no longer have the option of specifying how long before PC goes to sleep. The display is different too. Eg, when I have IE open and open Internet Options, the dialog box is so big I can not see the bottom Apply button so I can not make changes.

Why am I seeing these differences? Driver (or lack thereof) issue? I hope someone can help me. Thanks.

PS I did copy the System32 driver folders onto an external HD except I do not know how to make them available to the new install.

[artbuc]

My wife says I talk to myself, lol, so here I go again! Looks like both problems were solved by getting the right graphics driver installed. The Device Manager said the Display Adaptor driver was up to date but I made it search in the driver folders I had copied/pasted onto my external HD. Windows found and installed. After restart, the sleep option was there and I could properly size icons and dialog boxes. I found the solution simply by googling. Turns out these are very common problems.

Now, what should I do with the copied/pasted driver folders? Think I will rename them and copy them in the System32 folder. That way the previously installed drivers will be available if I need them. I think I have to rename them because apparently you can not overwrite or merge system files, right?

[patio]

No need to rename them....you don't wanna put anything in the System32 folder BTW...

[artbuc]

No need to rename them....you don't wanna put anything in the System32 folder BTW...

Just put them in a Documents Library folder for potential future use?

[patio]

That should be fine...you could burn them to CD as well...