PC won't POST with New RAM! Getting Desperate, Would Appreciate Help!!

[BHogervorst]

Hello Everyone from Computer Hope!  I'm so glad you guys exist and I hope I can get some help!  I'm new here so please don't hesitate to guide me.

Firstly, I apologize for my lengthy description but pretty much all the facts related to what happened are important so PLEASE at least read

I've been posting on TomsHardware.com for a few weeks about a BSOD problem which i'm suspecting is an issue with my RAM.  They're great over there but only one person is responding to my posts and I was kind of running into dead ends everywhere with no solutions.
So i've come over here just to see if I can get any more help.  I really love computers and this is my first desktop build ever (Built the system December 2015) but I have a very limited budget, so please understand if my parts are not very great.  None the less, I depend on this computer and having it down is really not an option.

Of course, here's my parts list on pcpartpicker.com: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/tbn3cf
(If you're wondering, I don't have a dedicated GPU, at least at this point in time)

I'll give some background and describe my problem:

It's been about 1 month since I've started to battle the problem and I haven't come across any fixes yet!  So the first thing I noticed was an occasional BSOD which annoyed me.  Then I started to get Random freezes and a few times my screen went completely red.  This worried me but not too much since I've dealt with problems like this before on other systems.  What did start worrying me though was when it started happening more and more when I was doing anything intensive.  At that point, I went to the tomshardware.com community to see if they had anything to say.  They said check the RAM so I tested both 4GB sticks in every practical configuration.  In the end, I found that one of my sticks was corrupt.  When I had it in the system would POST and run fine until I did anything graphically intensive, then it would crash.  I took it out hoping to run the system on 4GB until I could RMA the sticks and buy some new ones off of Amazon.com.

Fast forward about a week and a half and I hadn't had any problems running the one 4GB of RAM stick other than the fact that 4GB isn't very much and it made things a little slow.  But I still hadn't bought the new set of RAM.  To keep the system up and running, my plan was to buy a set of HyperX Fury 2x8GB 1600Mhz sticks then install those and RMA the supposedly bad G.Skill sticks.  I thought my plan was going to work great and I was going to be back on my feet again in no time.

Fast forward another few days.  I had finally bought the RAM and had it ready to install in the computer.  I took out my 4GB stick and put in the two new 8GB ones, then attempted to start the PC, but the system would not POST which was a huge disappointment since the RAM was brand new and just out of the casing.  I tried tons of different combinations but most of the time the system wouldn't POST.  The only time the system POSTed was when the one stick of good G.Skill RAM was installed, and when it POSTed, the system would display both sticks as "Installed" but only the G.Skill one would be "Enabled".  See the BIOS screenshots I attached.

I can also note that when I took out the two HyperX sticks that wouldn't POST and I put the working G.Skill stick back in, when I booted up the computer, Windows 10 (which I recently reinstalled on a new SSD about a month ago) gave me a BSOD with the error "IO1_INITIALIZATION_FAILED".  I tried everything possible from a recovery disk to sfc/sannow in CMD to linux bootable CDs to restore points but nothing worked.  Since then, I've been able to recover all my data and reinstall Windows 10 on the SSD but I'm going to have to assume that the Windows problem might have come about as a result of the RAM corrupting my data...maybe?  I really can't think of any other explanation for that.

I've also heard from people that since the memory controllers for the system are on the CPU, sometimes bent CPU pins can cause weird RAM problems while still allowing the CPU to seem to run normally.  I took the whole system out of the case however, to see if maybe some CPU pins were bent or broken, or maybe I had a motherboard or other PCB short.  I looked over everything multiple times, and I found nothing. 

It's also worth mentioning that I've tried BIOS optimized defaults, clearing the CMOS, booting with nothing but the essential components, Running Memtest86 and other diagnostic tools, and even upping the DRAM voltage by 0.07v but none of those things have worked either.

So here's some problems I've ruled out:
- Software issues, at least in Windows.  The system still has problems without any storage devices plugged in.
- PCI-e Card issues.  I don't have any PCI-e cards plugged in
- Heat Issues.  my system is properly cooled by tons of case fans and a Hyper 212 EVO.  It averages 35c in the BIOS.

So here's some things I suspect might be causing the problem:
- Dead RAM.  This is doubtful though since the one G.Skill stick always works in any slot as long as it's installed alone.  But since i have two sets of RAM that are completely different brands, speeds, and sizes, could they both have been dead?  The chances of that happening to one person are astronomically small.
- Incompatible RAM.  I noticed that the HyperX Fury kit I bought says "UDIMM" on the front not "DIMM".  I don't know much about the difference between UDIMMs and DIMMs but I think they are different. So did I just buy incompatible RAM and one of the G.Skill sticks is bad, leaving the one G.Skill stick that works fine?
- The CPU.  I'd really hate it if this is the problem, but suppose it could be something I just physically can't see.
- The motherboard.  This is what I suspect second to the RAM since it is directly related.
- The PSU...maybe?  I had suggestions that maybe my PSU was bad, but that seems doubtful.  I've got leads on a PSU to borrow and test with though.
- Something else.  Those things above are basically all I had plugged in to test things out with (other than like the keyboard, mouse, display, and power cable) so I don't know what else it could be...maybe a corrupt BIOS?  My motherboard has a Dual-BIOS though so it could repair itself and it would say so.

So at this point, other than trying to get my hands on that PSU to test my system on, I really don't know what to do next.  I might talk to Gigabyte support though and see what they say.

Man, I'd just really like to thank anyone who read this far!  I feel so bad writing to much but I have nothing better to do and i'm really frustrated
Thanks a ton in advance!  I much appreciate any help I can get.
- BHogervorst
 

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[Geek-9pm]

A general observation.
Some builders have years of experience and have found what to look for.  Overall, most DIY people have to have some extra parts on hand to test stuff. A spare PSU and an motherboard are almost a necessity.
You must have the hardware in perfect shape before you make big changes to software. If you suspect either the OS or the hard drive, try using one of the  'live Linux CD' to see if the hardware is OK.
Windows has a limited ability to 'fix' hardware problems.  It can make corrections to some kinds of hard drive errors. But not massive failures.

If you can get a Linux CD to run in the demo mode, your hardware is likely working alright. But the Linux c demo does not require the hard drive to be in good condition, it runs just in RAM.

It seems unlikely that RAM from a good render would be DOA. Check you documentation very carefully to make use you did order the recommend chips for that motherboard. It matters.

Hop this might help. 

[BHogervorst]

Thanks for responding to my post Geek-9pm!

I see what you mean about having spare parts around, however, this is my first PC build and i'm also on an extremely tight budget so the only parts I have lying around are really old ones.

About running a Linux disto, I've done that to backup my files and I've also been able to use the system 100% perfectly on that one G.Skill RAM stick.  But the exact same problems persist outside of the whole software aspect of this system with no storage devices hooked up.  The problem is always either the system failing to POST or not all the RAM showing up in the BIOS.

Thanks for your help!  I'm really happy that at least someone is willing to help me 
- BHogervorst

[BC_Programmer]

The borrowed PSU seems like the most reasonable diagnostic step going forward, that will at least save you money if it turns out to not be PSU related. Though given you don't experience the issue with one RAM stick I can't really think of how it may be involved.

I suppose perhaps It could be an issue with certain voltage rails that aren't used by SSD/HDDs and are used primarily by the CPU and RAM- I believe the 3.3V Rail isn't typically used by peripherals, though I'm not certain.

The BIOS results are incredibly odd, I could see those results with the G.Skill in the first slot and the Hyper-X in the second, (the Hyper-X could feasibly be not enabled because it is faster) but with only the G.Skill RAM installed it is almost as if there is some sort of "memory" (uh, if you'll pardon the pun) of the RAM from failed boot attempts, which doesn't make any sense since If I understand correctly, it never actually booted.

I did a bit of research on the board and the RAM. the Board lists "Support for DDR3 2400(OC)/2133/1866/1600/1333 MHz memory modules", and also lists that the maximum module size per slot is 16GB, So it's not that, either.

For UDIMM, it means Unregistered DIMM. The counterpart, Registered DIMM, is primarily used for server systems. All the RAM you've got there is almost certainly unregistered so I don't think that is the issue.

Here's a thought: What happens if you boot with no RAM installed at all? You should get a series of beeps. Though come to think of it, I wouldn't know what it points at if it doesn't!

[BHogervorst]

Thanks for helping me BC_Programmer!

I will look into the PSU issue and try and get another one to test with.  I still doubt it would be my PSU though.  Could it maybe be that having multiple RAM sticks takes more power than having one?  But that still wouldn't make sense because the other G.Skill Stick doesn't work by itself.

About the RAM speeds, don't all RAM sticks run at the lowest speed of the slowest RAM stick if you have different types of RAM?  If so, would that really lead to compatibility issues?  Also, I can rarely get the G.Skill Ram stick to boot with the HyperX stick so that wouldn't make sense anyways, what I'm having trouble with I guess is getting the two identical HyperX sticks to work at all. 

I have noticed though, that there seems to be one HyperX stick that always at least allows the system to POST with the G.Skill Stick even if it doesn't register in the BIOS, while the other HyperX stick wont ever POST the system while running with the G.Skill stick. 

One other thing that makes me think it's a motherboard problem is the fact that sometimes when that HyperX stick I was talking about is able to POST the system in the DDR3_2 slot with the G.Skill stick in the DDR3_1 slot (theoretically dual channel), if I switch the HyperX stick to the DDR3_3 slot (right next to the G.Skill stick) the system won't post.  But like I said before, the main working G.Skill stick always POSTs and works 100% in all slots every time....which is just so darn confusing.

About the UDIMM vs DIMM, the guy over on tomshardware.com pointed that out too me (which was a real bummer in some ways cause I was kinda hoping it was the problem).  So tell me if i'm wrong, DIMM is a general term for UDIMMs and is also just the generic RAM name and UDIMM is just the manufactures being very specific and listing everything...maybe right?

Oh, for starting the board with no RAM, I've done that on accident but since my board has no beeper or error code display I won't know what it's telling me.  However, there is a little 4-Pin Speaker header in the front panel connector area.  I don't have any beepers on hand, but could I maybe use an LED?  and if so, which of the 4 pins would I use?

Anyways, thanks a lot for your help!
- BHogervorst

[DaveLembke]

I don't have any beepers on hand, but could I maybe use an LED?  and if so, which of the 4 pins would I use?

If your interested in the LED method for seeing a Beep Code, i would put a LED in series with a 470 Ohm resistor. Then match the polarity of the LED and resistor in series with the + and - for speaker on the 4 pin header. It will be the 1 pins at either corner of the 4 pin. *Be sure this is the speaker header and polarity is correct. If you get polarity backwards it will just no light the LED, and the 470 ohm resistor will protect you from burning up the audio driver since 470 ohms is greater resistance than the speaker coil.

The longer leg on a brand new LED is the anode and that is + the shorter leg is the cathode and -. The 470 ohm resistor can be connected to either leg in series. Series means that its like if the components were people they would only be joining hands at one hand each and the other free hand would go to + and - of each. You do not want to collect this parallel as for that will place a load on the speaker audio header that may be less than 8 ohms and fry the driver = smoke show possibly.

Here is a schematic that shows in series and correct polarity.

The hardest part will be connecting to the pins without shorting against other pins.... I have repurposed a CD Rom drive audio cable for a purpose like this before when I needed a connector for the 4 pin header on the board for FPanel PC Speaker. I snip the one end off the CD ROM audio cable that use to be used for direct CD to Sound Card audio and wire the cable up to a speaker with correct polarity. There are 3 wires, usable pins and you just need to locate the ones that are at pins 1 and 4. But you might not have this cable to make one of these up. They stopped including them for audio years ago since the computers now can play audio on the fly through the SATA and IDE ports anyways.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c9/LED_circuit.svg/200px-LED_circuit.svg.png


PC Speaker or Piezo's are pretty easy to come by as well to connect a actual speaker too. 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2973FN4939&cm_re=pc_speaker-_-9SIA2973FN4939-_-Product

[BHogervorst]

Thanks for the help DaveLembke and BC_Programmer!

So I'm not experienced enough to have any Resistors lying around let alone tell which ones are right.  However, I was able (using a spare 4-Pin connector from something else) get a signal from an LED that I put on WITHOUT blowing out my whole system.  And yes, my system for hooking up the light is not very good, I will admit it, but I get feedback from the LED which is all I need.  So here's what I got:

- With no RAM installed:  Constant pulsating and no POST

Tests with only G.Skill RAM:
- With Good G.Skill RAM installed:  1 Flash before entering BIOS
- With Good G.Skill RAM and bad G.Skill RAM installed:  1 Flash and bad RAM not detected in BIOS
- With Only Bad G.Skill RAM Installed:  No Flash and No POST

Tests with only HyperX RAM:
- With first HyperX RAM Installed:  No Flash and No POST
- With Second HyperX RAM installed:  No Flash and No POST
- With Both HyperX RAM sticks Installed:  No Flash and No POST

Tests with Both types of RAM: 
- With good G.Skill RAM and 1 HyperX RAM Installed:  2 Flashes with 1 second delay between before entering BIOS with bad RAM not detected

So I guess I'll continue to look into borrowing some RAM for testing.

Thanks
- BHogervorst

[Geek-9pm]

So you can get it to POST? If so, then you might be able to boot a USB stick with a test program.
Some good information about memory testing is found on the Crucial.com web site. 
http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/support-memory-motherboard-compatibility

Depending on the age and purchase price of your computer, it was designed to use one of the following types of memory technology:
    SDR (single data rate) technology primarily appeared in systems manufactured before 2002
    DDR (double data rate) technology began to appear in systems manufactured in 2002
    DDR2 (second generation double data rate) technology began to appear mid-2004
    DDR3 technology began to appear in late 2007
    DDR4 technology will begin appearing in 2014

They have a free download to test  your system to probe what memory your motherboard needs.

[BHogervorst]

Yes Geek-9pm, I'm able to consistently POST the system 99% of the time with no problems using the G.Skill 4GB RAM stick that I know works and has never failed me.

I've tried the Crucial scanner before and it's great, but the one flaw is that it only shows Crucial brand memory, and I'd like to stick with something cheap - that is unless they've updated it since i last used it and it shows all major brands.

And about booting into a USB stick, yes I can do that and have done it a few times, but since I have full working Windows, why not use that.  If you mean something else like Memtest86, I've tried that but the problem is either that the system will not POST or that the RAM won't show up, either in the BIOS, or in the tests I've run.

Thanks though!
- BHogervorst

[DaveLembke]

Have you checked to see if the memory is on this support list?

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4714#memory%20support%20list

The problems your up against when looking over it all reminds me of a ASUS board I had a while back that was very memory sensitive. If I had memory sticks not explicitly on the support list installed it either would not post, or error on post, or would freeze up tight. Yet the memory sticks were fine in another motherboard that was less picky. Fortunately it was a system given to me and it worked with the RAM that came with it, but when maxing out the RAM with a pile of extra memory sticks I had thats when I ran into this issue. It was an old Pentium 4 board with 333Mhz DDR sticks in it.  I had other 333Mhz and 266Mhz sticks available for it and it seemed that 266Mhz DDR sticks had no problems with jumping off of the support list, but the 333Mhz DDR sticks had to be specifically on the support list or else problems with system. My guess on this system was that there may have been some on board components that were overclocked or overdriven parts really intended for 266Mhz and thats why 266Mhz was fine for all sorts of mismatch brands not on list, but when it came to 333Mhz DDR sticks even with matched timings as those on the list still not working, it had to do with timing of some sort to foul up like that. In the end I ended up for a matter of not wanting to spend any money on a Pentium 4 system just installing 1GB of 266Mhz DDR RAM as 4 x 256MB DDR266Mhz sticks and removing the 4 x 128MB DDR333Mhz sticks that it came with for 512MB. The benchmark difference was little and on a Pentium 4 that wasnt that fast to begin with at 2.6Ghz it was one way of getting my 1GB RAM needed to support a modern Linux Mint installation which needed 1GB for the version i wanted to run.

Gigabyte boards are some of the best boards, but that being said ASUS was also top of the line when the Pentium 4 board was made. It might be a picky board like the ASUS I had.

[BHogervorst]

Hey DaveLembke!

Yes, I have checked the RAM compatibility list for my motherboard and it lists a few Kingston HyperX Fury kits but not my exact model.  Does the list just need to say the generalized RAM manufacturer or should it need to specify the exact model number for each compatible kit?  In that case, my RAM isn't on the list.

Also I might note that my system is now refusing to POST with any RAM at all, so my analysis is that whatever component is dead or dying has pretty much died.  I've gotten some advice from someone I know who is experienced with computers they suggested I RMA the motherboard because it makes the most sense and it's pretty easy other than having to wait for it, so i've submitted an RMA request with Gigabyte and box is packed up.

Thanks everyone for your help, this case is nowhere near over but since there is nothing else to test, I'll just wait till I get the new motherboard so I can post my findings!
- BHogervorst

[patio]

No...ideally the exact Model # RAM should be used...

The QVL list means the RAM has been lab-tested by the MBoard manuf...

Perhaps you will be able to exchange the RAM with the vendor giving a brief description of your issues...

[BHogervorst]

Don't worry anyone, I haven't gone anywhere!

I've RMA'd my motherboard and am just waiting for them to receive it, and send me a new one.

I'll post updates once I get the new board.

Thanks all!
- BHogervorst

[BHogervorst]

I have received my "repaired" motherboard, back from the Gigabyte RMA center.  By the way, if you're looking for good customer service, don't go with Gigabyte, took them around 3 and a half weeks to get it back to me, but as long as it works, i'm satisfied.

The RAM I RMA'd to G.Skill should be coming in the mail in a day or two.  After that, I will have all the components to put the computer back together and give it a test boot!  I'll keep everyone notified on what happens!

Thanks,
- BHogervorst

[BHogervorst]

Hello all!

I Received the last of my RMA'd parts about a week ago and have since then rebuilt the system.

As you will remember, I was having RAM issues and was absolutely confused about my problem.  So I went ahead and returned the HyperX RAM I Purchased, guessing that, as odd as it seems, it might have just been incompatible with my motherboard or CPU.  Than I proceeded to RMA my G.Skill RAM and then my motherboard to be safe.  I received the motherboard back, repaired by Gigabyte and a completely new set of G.Skill RAM sticks.

After putting the system back together, everything booted fine and worked without issue, and most importantly my RAM is completely recognized and I haven't blue-screened once!

So I can confidently say that my problem is resolved.  I will never know for sure what the problem was all-round, but my theory is that the HyperX RAM was incompatible and that one of my G.Skill sticks died. 

As stressful and annoying as this was, I appreciate all the help you all gave me, I probably wouldn't have been able to figure this all out without your help.  I would be glad to come back to computerhope.com any day to ask for help or even help someone myself, and I would be completely comfortable with referring a friend.  Thanks for the great experience!

Thank you all very much, have a great day!!!
- BHogervorst