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Author Topic: CNC machines running on ms dos  (Read 9636 times)

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MikeW84

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    CNC machines running on ms dos
    « on: May 13, 2017, 05:49:56 AM »
    Good morning! We have a machine here that is running ms dos. I need to make a back up of this system. I'm trying to use Acronis software but its saying no operating system is found once the backup is installed on the hard drive. Do I need to install msdos onto the hard drive first and then use Acronis to restore the image? Or am I going about this all wrong? I think its using a smaller HD than I'm using , but if I partition it to only use 2-3GB it should be fine right? Thanks for any help!

    Best regards,
    Mike Wilson

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    Re: CNC machines running on ms dos
    « Reply #1 on: May 13, 2017, 09:48:06 AM »
    Read over again the Acronis  tutorials.
    When no OS is present on a hard drive, the recovery program w\must have its own bookable media to start up the recovery process.
    Or look in You Tube for Acronis  tutorials.
    https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-iry-fullyhosted_003&hsimp=yhs-fullyhosted_003&hspart=iry&p=Acronis+tutorials.#id=1&vid=6a69b3a705e7c0f526e609d22029c441&action=click



    MikeW84

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      Re: CNC machines running on ms dos
      « Reply #2 on: May 13, 2017, 08:04:46 PM »
      Ok I'll install the o/s and try again. I will take a look at some tutorials as well. Instructions are always nice. Some background on this: I got a job as a mechanic with a company. I started noticing hard drives thrown in the back of cabinets and drawers. We have over 100 machines in this plant and maybe 15-20 backups. So I told the new engineer that we should do something about it. We did have an IT guy but he didn't want to mess with the machine backups. Most of the machines are old and are running DOS and the rest are WIN98/XP or windows embedded <~ another problem in itself.  So I'm spearheading a big operation as of the moment. I really appreciate the reply man. Have a good. Ugh this all!

         Mike

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      Re: CNC machines running on ms dos
      « Reply #3 on: May 13, 2017, 10:20:12 PM »
      Thanks for the details.
      I did not know what CNC meant. I found out.
      Computer Numerical Control (CNC) machines are automated milling devices that make industrial components without direct human assistance. They use coded instructions that are sent to an internal computer, which allows factories to fabricate parts accurately and quickly. There are many different types of CNC machines, ranging from drills to plasma cutters, so they can be used to make a wide variety of parts. Though most are used industrially in manufacturing, there are also hobby versions of most of the machines that can be used in private homes.
      (Years ago I worked in Machine Automation software, but never go into CNC.)

      Some things  you need to know. This applies to older computers make before about 2006. After that year changes were made to the BIOS as dictated by Intel.
      MS-DOS was created long before hard drive had gigabyte capacities. So MS-DOS could not make partition larger than 2 gigabytes and could not read anything above 32 gigabytes.  Partitions are also called volumes. Up to four primary partitions are the limit. One of these could be make into an extended partition, allowing logical drives to be made.
      All hard drives used on DOS and Windows were marked a s type MSDOS. Most windows users never think about this, it matters to UNIX people. A raw drive might not be usable until a utility marks it as a MSDOS type.
      Early version of DOS can NOT read FAT32 partitions.
      Also, DOS and Windows require a drive to have at least one primary partition set as the active partition.
      Sometimes a old drive can be 'reactivated' by having the active partition , the boot partition, away for the first part of the disk. Sometimes the first part of the dis is badly worn and will cause failures. So you avoid using the fist 100 mega bytes of the disk. That often works. MSDOS had a scan disk utility that could mark bad sectors.  or weak hard drives you had to do this once in awhile.
      Do this machines have floppy drives? MS DOS has utilizes that can be used to initialize a hard drive by booting  from a floppy with the utilizes.
      From archives:
      https://www.computerhope.com/overview.htm
      Here are just some of the commands you should know:
      attrib
      cls
      copy
      date
      debug
      defrag
      dir
      edit
      fdisk
      fdisk /mbr
      format
      help
      qbasic
      print
      ver
      rename
      setver
      scandisk
      sys
      time
      xcopy

      There are many experts here on MS-DOS. So come back and ask questions anytime.
      How far did you get with Acronis today?   :)

      EDIT: Here is more about fdisk /mbr
      https://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000175.htm
      « Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 10:32:05 PM by Geek-9pm »

      MikeW84

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        Re: CNC machines running on ms dos
        « Reply #4 on: May 15, 2017, 07:30:06 AM »
        Good info! I think I got the hard drive backed up and copied. I have an old desktop computer I've been using to test these hard drives on but the computer has to talk to a controller on the machine before I know for sure if it's 100%. They're running production right now so I have to wait until 3pm to go try it. Really appreciate the wisdom.
           Best regards,
                MIke

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        Re: CNC machines running on ms dos
        « Reply #5 on: May 15, 2017, 12:03:28 PM »
        You are welcome.   ;)

        MikeW84

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          Re: CNC machines running on ms dos
          « Reply #6 on: May 20, 2017, 02:39:34 PM »
          So the hard drive was a no go. The program starts up (with some errors in German which I've been told is normal) but as soon as you hit f11 to log in it clears the bottom login screen and if you hit another key it stops the software and goes to dos command kind saying abnormal end. A guy at work told me to backup the hard drive again and just drag and drop the files into the new hard drive instead of letting acronis do it. Worth a try. Starting to learn a little more. Got to learn how to make an batch auto copy file for a USB to back up some program files. Neat stuff.

          patio

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          Re: CNC machines running on ms dos
          « Reply #7 on: May 20, 2017, 04:58:12 PM »
          Actually if it's a DOS PC you should use Ghost opposed to Acronis for the clone...
          " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

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          Re: CNC machines running on ms dos
          « Reply #8 on: May 20, 2017, 05:58:53 PM »
          http://www.oldversion.com/windows/norton-ghost/
          Quote
          Norton Ghost Popular Version
          Norton Ghost 6.03

          MikeW84

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            Re: CNC machines running on ms dos
            « Reply #9 on: May 20, 2017, 07:28:04 PM »
            Ok that makes sense. Most of the backups were done by a previous engineer. Our new engineer is not involved with any of this. He has ALOT of ghost backups. I will def look into this.

            patio

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            Re: CNC machines running on ms dos
            « Reply #10 on: May 20, 2017, 08:09:16 PM »
            Then if he used Ghost all those backups are good...
            And no need to re-install...just select the latest and clone the new HDD...

            If i remember they are .gho files...
            " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

            MikeW84

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              Re: CNC machines running on ms dos
              « Reply #11 on: May 21, 2017, 02:47:32 AM »
              They are good but there hasn't been a backup on these systems for at least 1-2 years. A lot of the programs have been modified so we want the most current changes. We have added a lot of new tooling so the parameters and info on these systems are very different. If worse came to worse we can use these.

              MikeW84

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                Re: CNC machines running on ms dos
                « Reply #12 on: May 21, 2017, 06:08:35 PM »
                I got one going. I guess I was trying to format as FAT and it needed to be FAT32. Once I did that it loaded right up. Still used Acronis for this one.

                Now I have another issue. I know this is simple stuff and I have been researching and trying to get this figured out on my own(I see I have much to learn 8) ) I have an old Conner hard drive that is completely blank. It saying can't initialize on my windows system. So I tried loading dos 5.0 on it but command.com and one other file wouldn't load so I skipped. But windows still won't recognize the HD. I'm gonna keep plugging away at it though. Appreciate all the replies so far. A guy at work gave me a pocket msdos command book. Good stuff in there too.

                patio

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                Re: CNC machines running on ms dos
                « Reply #13 on: May 21, 2017, 06:36:11 PM »
                Which Connor HDD ? ?...some needed propietary controller cards...
                " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

                MikeW84

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                  Re: CNC machines running on ms dos
                  « Reply #14 on: May 22, 2017, 03:23:16 AM »
                  I'll post the exact model shortly.