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Author Topic: Let's Go Back to the Dongle  (Read 3717 times)

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Geek-9pm

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Let's Go Back to the Dongle
« on: August 28, 2017, 02:31:10 AM »
This is from dictation.
Let's go back to the dongle. Years ago software companies controlled the distribution of their products by the use of dongles. You could not use the software unless there was a dongle plugged into some type of interface port of your computer. Users hated it because it was a nuisance to have to remember to plug the dongle in when you wanted to use a piece of software that had a very strong copyright restrictions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dongle

But I think the time has come to go back to using the dongle.
Here  explains why I say this. It is because today both individuals and businesses have more than one computer used for everyday tasks. But the piece of software that is used for a specific task is never used on both computers at the same time. That is because there is only one individual in the home or business that uses that particular software. Here or she would like to really use it on either computer. But if the software is installed on both computers, it becomes a violation of the end user license agreement. That license agreement says that the software must be installed only on one computer unless another licenses is purchased for the second computer. For many users that is absolute nonsense.
Two computers are needed because there are are other people that need to use computers in the same environment. But only one user needs to use the special software that is covered by a very strong copyright restriction. This is one of the reasons people want to go over to using free software or public domain or other software that does not have draconian restrictions on installation on several computers. However, there are some programs that  are so good in what they do that you need the commercial version, not the free version that is supported by some group of people that like to create free software. This can happen not just in a business situation, but also even a home user may find there is a specific program her or she needs for some specific purpose and that specific purpose is not satisfied with any the free programs out there.
So, it's time to bring back the dongle. The dongle would look like a small USB thumb drive. What it does is give an encryption code that identifies the license for a specific installation of a copyrighted software product. The dongle cannot be duplicated without violating the law. It not  built in such a way that you cannot just simply read it and write an image of it to a similar device. Every time the thing is red there is a new encryption process that is identified by the software program and thus insurers that any counterfeit dongle will not work. Well, if somebody wanted to do a very intensive reverse engineering, they could probably figure out some way to duplicate the dongle. But that require more equipment than what most people would have at hand. And even in that case there could be legal remedies the software company could take if they found out that somebody was mass-producing images of software keys.
The reason I say this is because I find sometimes that I have to use Windows 7 for certain kinds of things I need to do. But the software I  like to also use at  the same time is currently installed on my XP installation. Now it is possible, with a great amount of work, to uninstall the software from XP and then inform the support department that I have uninstalled the software and then I can reinstall it again on Windows 7  That is a real pain in my lower back. If I had a dongle, I could just unplug it from the Windows XP machine and plug it into the Windows 7 machine. Or better yet, with Windows XP and Windows 7 both installed on the same machine, I would never have to move the dongle and all.
Does anybody understand what my rant is about? I think the software companies would get more happy users if they would allow the users to have a dongle instead of going through this insane un- activation and  re-activation process any time you want to move your expensive software to another computer.
Now I would have written this rant and communicated it with the support crew of  the company I am thinking about, but it is very hard to communicate with them at all. Insteadm,  I would put it here and have other people read it. And besides,  more than one company could benefit is they were to go over to this idea of using a dongle instead of having people go through the insane idiotic process of activation of their product and then trying to figure out why didn't activate and calling up the support people and all that kind of stuff. Just use a dongle.  8)

End of rant.  :)

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« Last Edit: August 28, 2017, 02:41:35 AM by Geek-9pm »

strollin



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Re: Let's Go Back to the Dongle
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2017, 06:48:16 AM »
All copy-protection schemes have their pros and cons, none of them are perfect.

Dongles can get lost, broken or just plain fail.  I personally dislike dongles with a passion.


Mark.



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Re: Let's Go Back to the Dongle
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2017, 07:01:58 AM »
and the little buggers aren't cheap to replace either.
then factor in the lead time to get the replacement delivered !!!

I've had quite a few get slammed by a wayward leg or chair.


but as stated, pro's and cons for any system.


for me, dongles are (slightly) more negative than positive.

camerongray



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Re: Let's Go Back to the Dongle
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2017, 07:41:39 AM »
Yeah, Dongles are a complete pain, perfect thing to lose, especially if you are needing to carry it around with you!

Personally, I'm growing tired of the amount of protection software companies are putting into their software to stop piracy, none of it seems to work.  All that it seems to do is irritate and inconvenience people who have actually bought the software, I'm currently having an absolute nightmare trying to reinstall a machine with Windows 10 using an 8.1 key after replacing a failed motherboard.  It would be interesting to see how much the current systems work to stop piracy, especially for software designed for business use since legitimate businesses tend not to pirate software anyway!

patio

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Re: Let's Go Back to the Dongle
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2017, 07:47:45 AM »
If 10 was installed to the failed MBoard then it'll be in the database...
Call them they will issue a new key for the replaced MBoard....
" Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

DaveLembke



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Re: Let's Go Back to the Dongle
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2017, 08:01:14 AM »
Back when I worked for a small Food Store chain we had Parallel Port Dongles for software on POS Servers as well as Membership Card Printer computer. Without these the software would error. Hardware Keys aka Dongles have been around for a while. A few clients of mine have them for high end software they use. One of them asked if there was a way to share a dongle between 2 computers and I was like... wow... this person has no clue WHY the dongle is being used in the first place. When I made them aware that the dongle is a hardware key and its suppose to only work on one computer at a time and that running multiples through some sort of communication trickery to share between 2 computers was illegal they were like OH WOW! I didn't know that.  ::)

The Parallel Port type weren't that much of a burden as for most of them allowed for still a parallel port printer or other devices to communicate through them. But the USB type are a danger for any computers where the USB dongle can get bumped.

With bandwidth ever increasing, I'm just waiting for the day that Windows for example becomes a monthly service and we connect to it as thin-clients. Piracy of Windows would be pretty much gone. PXE Booting though a roku type of box that hosts a local PXE service and maintains a secure connection over the internet with secure encrypted tunneling to MS Servers that host the terminal sessions to host Windows for the many users. With the increased bandwidth and computer processing power, the mainframes that serve up the OS wouldnt be that heavily loaded as for while its sort of a traditional thin-client type of connection, the processing power of the session could be local and only user data passed back to their servers so say you launch excel, well excel is downloaded on the fly to your computer and it opens, it then through your cloud connection with microsoft gives you all your folders etc as well as local folders with some local storage options for people who might still need to work offline. And just like some of the game providers like steam has, you can sign out a game for offline use through the steam client well you could then do the same with microsoft hosted products. Then when you reconnect your data sync's. It would be a major cash cow forcing all modern Windows users over to a pay-per-use system. No longer that one time fee of $139.99 for an OS that you can run for 5 or 6 years or longer, but now $4.99 a month ( $59.88 per year ) or $54.99 a year if paid for 1 year in advance, so it continually brings in revenue. Software like MS Office could be added to this like the cable companies do with channel selections. The more royalty based software you want the more expensive your experience. You can jump in and out of higher tier services such as your kid goes off to college, well they jump into a college option and get access to all software necessary for their institution etc, and they are paying say $19.99 a month etc which is for Windows + All Software they would ever need that is offered by Microsoft. $19.99 a month is not bad at all and over a 4 year college thats likely more money than microsoft would otherwise make on the students at an additional $180 per year above the $59.88 per year if paid monthly vs annual discount offering when paying for 12 months in advance.

Other thing with this comes cheaper computers. You no longer are buying a new computer with the cost of Windows bundled into it, so you see computers for say $50 lesser price tags etc. These computers can be used for any OS of choice. And Linux can still run on these as well as Apple also gets on board with making their OS and Apps a paid for service so any computer can run their OS. * Well that last part is wishful thinking i guess. Apple would take a hit if they got out of the Mac Computer Business and left it up to other computer manufacturers.  ;D Buts its one way that Microsoft would have a one up on Apple in the fact that they dont have people hardware locked to their platform and any computer able to run as a thin client that meets the minimum processing power can suddenly run the latest version of Windows and security updates are all done server side so your always hosted the most secure version available.

To help shove people out of older computers and force planned obsolescence they can make their software processing heavy to force the hand of people to have to upgrade so computer manufacturers dont get hurt by suddenly computers that people arent upgrading due to OS obsolescence. If computers were given an OS that evolves people would be less likely to upgrade unless specific games etc didnt run on its specs. So they could set it up by design for a just about forced hand to upgrade computers every 5 years if they want to keep with the Windows service. Most would probably upgrade after the 3 to 5 year period especially if they are gamers.

patio

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Re: Let's Go Back to the Dongle
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2017, 08:03:23 AM »
Quote
With bandwidth ever increasing, I'm just waiting for the day that Windows for example becomes a monthly service and we connect to it as thin-clients.

And this is exactly what MS wants...
" Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

BC_Programmer


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Re: Let's Go Back to the Dongle
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2017, 08:41:56 AM »
The only plans for "Windows as a Service" are for the enterprise. The appeal in that market segment would likely be the same as the appeal behind Office 365. Always on the latest version with no deployment hassles, etc.

No, Licensing Dongles are crap.

Even if they work 100%, they can still get lost or stolen. They can still break, or be broken by accident. What if the manufacturer goes under, or they switch to a standard software key, but you don't want ot upgrade? Now suddenly these dongles aren't available. You want to add another user, but they don't even sell the hardware dongle's anymore, so your only option is to go with the new verison, but it's not compatible with the old version at all, so now you have to upgrade the others. And now those other dongles are completely useless and aren't even saleable.

Furhtermore, just because a Hardware dongle allows you to install something to two machines for use with one license, doesn't mean you are even allowed to- often doing so violates the EULA just as much as it does for a standard "Serial Key" type of install.

Even in a fantasy land where they always work and are properly detected every time, they don't actually have their own functionality, and they use up a USB Port. But as it happens, they generally don't work.

Our old software runs on an Operating System that requires a Dongle; THEOS Calls it a "Software Portal".

If it worked, it would be annoying. But half the time it doesn't work. It isn't detected. it doesn't see it for one reason or another. We receive frequent support calls as a result even though we aren't responsible for the OS itself, as it almost never sees it when it boots up, so they have to reboot their server until it is seen. Try a different port? etc.  It was the major setback in trying to get the installations onto Virtual Machines as well, because it turns out the dongle isn't really a USB device at all, so VMWare didn't otherwise have a way to forward it. we had to actually work with VMWare to get it to pass through a physical USB Port properly. And the Parallel Port Dongles? Completely useless in absolutely every way for that, even if the computer had a parallel port, becasue there was no pass-through capability.

Installing direct to the hardware left the table becasue the OS doesn't support features like SATA and is limited to some low amount of RAM like 2GB, and most customers also run Windows software of some kind so it makes no sense to have their nice new xeon-based system with 16GB of RAM used to run an OS from the 80's in a compatibility mode.

The "magical chairs" appeal of a hardware dongle falls by the wayside because the reality isn't a crystal rainbow, and the EULA usually only covers having the install on one computer per license at a time anyway.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

soybean



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Re: Let's Go Back to the Dongle
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2017, 09:10:49 AM »
I started computing in the days of Commodore 64 and I don't recall ever having a dongle for any computer software.  Based on the discussion here, I'm glad I never had to use them.

DaveLembke



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Re: Let's Go Back to the Dongle
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2017, 01:22:33 PM »
I miss my C64. I bought one at a yard sale in the mid 1990s for $20 in its original package with foam and booklet and all. I was so foolish to toss the box out and then lend the C64 to neighbor who killed it dumping a beer into it. Today they go for good money in new condition in original box back then i didnt think that it would be such a collectable. I even gave away 8088 XT and 286 systems thinking they made so many of them and there wouldnt be a future market for them. But when 99.99% of them go to recycle/trash the remaining .01% then has a good value to collectors. I even gutted some systems to make room for others and keep the good parts for other systems then tossed out all my ISA cards when PCI was the now. Now some of those ISA cards are worth good money video cards, a 4MB ISA type memory board that I used to bring my 286 to 4MB RAM via the ISA slot instead of by use of the on motherboard large layout of 16k RAM chips similar to 8088, all gone.  :'(

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Re: Let's Go Back to the Dongle
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2017, 04:06:24 PM »
Dongles weren't very commonly found in consumer software- it was more a workstation/enterprise thing. In the case I'm familiar with (THEOS Corona) I think it was probably easier than coming up with an effective software solution, too.

The basic idea was that for a company, they have, say, 80 computers, but they don't want to have to pay for 80 licenses, because they aren't going to ever use them all at once. So maybe they want 20 licenses, but uninstalling it from one system and setting it up on another is a pain.  The hardware dongles in that case help because they are used as a sort of physical key- you buy 20 licenses, you get 20 hardware dongles. Then you just have users use the dongles when they need the software.

Of course it's not perfect but before networked management of software licenses was commonplace, it made a lot of sense.

It's not really made any sense for typical consumers, though.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.