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Author Topic: Windows boot files on a seprate Hard drive  (Read 4305 times)

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Frankie

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    Windows boot files on a seprate Hard drive
    « on: October 21, 2017, 05:01:00 AM »
    I've just noticed that someone installed the Windows 10 Pro, boot files on a separate Harddrive. I want to take this drive out and have my windows boot files on the same drive as the rest of the windows files which is on C: drive. The boot files are currently on the i: drive and I don't want them there, so how do I get them onto the C: drive with the rest of windows? Please can someone give me an easy solution to this problem. Thank you

    DaveLembke



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    Re: Windows boot files on a seprate Hard drive
    « Reply #1 on: October 21, 2017, 06:33:30 AM »
    Far easier to backup your data and perform a clean install of Windows 10... Its a nightmare in moving windows from one drive to another without loss of data when you have data spanned between multiple drives. Here are the steps I'd do if reinstall of Windows is not an option.

    Get a 3rd Internal hard drive ( assuming this is a desktop computer that can support 3 hard drives connected ). Use the 3rd drive and copy an image of the Windows installation drive and all of its partitions to that 3rd drive and hopefully just a single partition on the other drive containing your data so you end up with 4 partitions. The 3 that Windows 10 requires + the 4th with your data from that other drive, so your merging 2 drives drives 1 and 2 into drive 3. Windows 10 will have hidden partitions that need to come over. One of the hidden ones is 100MB, the other will be a recovery partition and varies in size.

    If the other drive is broken up into multiples of partitions you have a great big mess on your hands and should just backup all important data to an external or cloud storage and then perform a clean install. Then bring your data back to a clean build.

    Here are some links that can get you into trouble if you dont know what your doing:

    https://www.pcworld.com/article/3050495/windows/windows-10s-hidden-hard-drive-partitions-how-to-find-them-how-to-remove-them.html

    https://superuser.com/questions/368173/what-is-the-maximum-number-of-partitions-that-can-be-made-on-a-hard-drive

    https://knowledgebase.macrium.com/display/KNOW/Cloning+a+disk

    Be sure to backup your data to an external drive or cloud storage before making any changes or playing with imaging software.

    Also if it works, you could always just use it as it is. I had a SSD that I started running out of space on and I ended up spanning to an HDD so that everything looked like it was at C: but symbolic links were used to span to another drive. It creates a mess if I ever wanted to back up multiple drives, but I backup my data so I will just perform a clean install next time and to a larger drive than a 90GB SSD.

    https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/16226/complete-guide-to-symbolic-links-symlinks-on-windows-or-linux/

    BC_Programmer


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    Re: Windows boot files on a seprate Hard drive
    « Reply #2 on: October 21, 2017, 07:29:25 AM »
    What "Windows Boot files" are on this drive? It may be a recovery partition.
    I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

    patio

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    Re: Windows boot files on a seprate Hard drive
    « Reply #3 on: October 21, 2017, 07:53:56 AM »
    The PC wonuldn't boot without boot files in proper location on C:\...
    " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

    Frankie

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      Re: Windows boot files on a seprate Hard drive
      « Reply #4 on: October 21, 2017, 01:33:43 PM »
      When I try to take out the i: Drive Windows 10 will not boot, so the boot files for Windows 10 are on the i: Drive, while the rest of the Windows files are on the C: Drive. I have attached a pic of the Disk Management on this computer

      @Patio - I know and this is why it won't boot when I take out I: drive, because the boot files are on the i: drive not on the C: drive. I'm asking how I get the boot files onto C: drive, so I can boot into windows when I take out the i: drive.

      @Dave - Would I have to perform all that just to fix this? Isn't there an easier way? Thank you



      [attachment deleted by admin to conserve space]
      « Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 01:49:58 PM by Frankie »

      DaveLembke



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      Re: Windows boot files on a seprate Hard drive
      « Reply #5 on: October 21, 2017, 03:35:36 PM »
      @Dave - Would I have to perform all that just to fix this? Isn't there an easier way? Thank you

      Looking at what you have... you dont have enough free space to do anything. Cant even shrink the I: volume to squeeze C: onto the same drive as I: and how I: became the drive for a Windows install...... How did all of this start?

      I suggest a clean build.

      The way this is set up is as if at some point you or the prior owner of this computer might have run out of space and then started shuffling partitions around and now its scattered among 2 drives. Windows will likely not like you messing around with moving C: to a new C: partition and in order to move C: to new C: location old C: would need to be renamed like X: and then new partition on the 250GB drive after shrinking I: would be C: . To fix this you might need to use a Live Linux Distro after shrinking I: to allow for contents of C: to get moved to available area under a new partition as for Windows will not like contents of C: switching to X: and Linux doesnt care like Windows does. Then when done Windows boots and sees C: as it always has seen C: but on the 250GB HDD however that drive might be over 90% full in which performance takes a dive. But once everything important is on the single drive, install a new larger drive and macrium reflect image the 250GB drive to like a 1TB or larger drive and have the free space you need and better performance of a drive that isnt so full.

      The easiest way out of this is to backup your data and wipe the drives and start clean with a single drive in the system and install Windows to that drive alone. Then add the other 120GB drive if you want and dont shuffle partitions around.

      If it were me, Id seriously just back up your data to an external or cloud storage and  wipe the drives clean and start fresh. If its a matter of not having the Windows 10 installation media, you can download it for free from Microsoft and then use your key against it and be good to go. Then copy back to the system important data that you need on it from external or cloud.

      Geek-9pm


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      Re: Windows boot files on a seprate Hard drive
      « Reply #6 on: October 21, 2017, 04:34:30 PM »

      Pardon me. I don't understand.
      Does the OP know the system boots for the second drive? How does he know?
      If the system is working--- Why change anything?
      An OS can boot from any standard drive in the computer, provided certain things have been done that way they have to be done.
      It is not clear why the OP does not like the way it works.

      Here is a link about a HP user that wanted to boot from the second drive and how it got it to work.
      https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebook-Operating-System-and-Recovery/Can-t-boot-from-2nd-drive-by-default/td-p/4561740
      In his case, he also was booting a Linux Ubuntu.
      Nevertheless, Windows does not need Linux to boot for another drive.
      The changes can be using tools found in Winnows.



      Frankie

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        Re: Windows boot files on a seprate Hard drive
        « Reply #7 on: October 22, 2017, 06:54:05 PM »
        @Geek-9pm - I want to install a bigger HDD into this computer and the only way I can do this is by taken out the I: drive. There is only room for two drives as the tower is designed this way, it's only a small tower. The C: drive is a SSD and the i: drive is a HDD and I would like windows on the SSD and a bigger capacity HDD. I know the boot files are on the i: drive because when I remove it and start the PC, I get a message on screen telling me there is no boot etc. I know the rest of my windows files are on the C: drive, because when I reinstall the i: drive to get windows to boot again, I can then see all the windows files on the C: drive. Does that clear it up for you? Thank you

        @Dave This is a computer I purchased from someone else and I can't contact them because they were moving at the time of selling. The problem is that it says it's Windows 10 Pro, but I do not have a key for it. I'm not sure if they updated from Windows 7 to windows 10 pro and am worried I might not be able to get Windows installed again without having to buy Windows 10. I could get windows 10 Pro disc and hope it just installs on to this PC, but is there a chance it won't? I didn't think you needed a key once Windows 10 was installed on a PC, I thought Windows 10 recognised it had already been installed? Thank you
        « Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 07:07:19 PM by Frankie »

        Geek-9pm


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        Re: Windows boot files on a seprate Hard drive
        « Reply #8 on: October 22, 2017, 07:48:50 PM »
        This is from  dictation.
        Yes, your explanation of what you're trying to do does make sense then it makes it easier to give a meaningful reply to you.
        I understand you have a computer you bought from someone else and it already has Windows 10 on it and you do not know what the key is for reinstallation.
        First point. Microsoft is getting away from the use of the key as being the exclusive way to activate and installation of Windows 10. In some cases uses have been able to activate Windows 10 without actually having a product key because of a number of other circumstances. One such situation was when an update was done from Windows 7 to Windows 10. In that case a new product key was never issued. Microsoft identified the original Windows 7 installation as being valid and then activated the Windows 10 installation and assigned a code to it, but this code is not really called a product key.
        For more information you would have to talk to somebody at Microsoft support, I will admit I don't clearly understand how this works.
        Second point. Microsoft tends to lock Windows 10 into a specific computer based on its hardware footprint, or I should say fingerprint. In other words, the motherboard, the video card and the hard drive and some other details are used to identify a specific computer. Possibly there is something like a serial number inside the firmware. Or maybe they're using a serial number that comes from the CPU. As to whether not they actually use a serial number from the CPU, I cannot say. Someplace it was denied that's CPU serial number whenever be used for anything.
        Now about using a solid-state drive. Windows can and does install onto a solid-state drive. However, I have no experience with this and do not have any worthwhile suggestions.
        From my experience I am quite sure you can clone Windows 10 and the rest of your disk drive onto a new disk drive. That is not an issue. I have done this and it seems that Windows 10 tolerates the idea of being cloned to another hard drive as long as you are still using the same computer. One thing you can do, is to get the spare hard drive, even a used one, or even borrow one from a friend. Try some experiments of making a clone of your operating system onto a spare hard drive. In fact, it's not even necessary to clone the entire drive. If the operating system is on a partition and the rest of the drive is partitioned up into separate pieces, you should be able to just clone the partition that has the operating system and it should work. Of course, there are some things it might not work. On newer computers you're supposed to be using the new method of booting from firmware and not use the old MBR standard. This adds to measure of difficulty, because much of the article you might read about disk cloning and transferring operating systems has to do with the older systems that use the MBR. I'm not sure what results you might have if you have a system that insists on using the new form of disk partitioning that has been in effect for a few years.
        Now here's another thing you might want to check into. It may be that your version of Windows qualifies for USB boot support. What this means is that you can get a high-quality USB drive and install a complete Windows 10 operating system onto the USB drive and actually boot from it. That can be used in place of using an installation DVD to do adjustments and repairs on your system. There are some things you would want to do from the install DVD, but you can do it justice well from having the USB drive that contains a bootable Windows 10 system.
        When trying to create a bootable hard drive sometimes things go wrong. Windows may not be able to set the partition you've chosen to be bootable. In that case, Windows 10 will look for another partition that could be made bootable and will install some of the hidden files on that partition.
        Now what I just said should be a warning to you that you cannot tell just by looking at files whether not a partition is bootable. It might have all the files you think should be there, even some hidden files, but is still might not be bootable. If it is not bootable, you have to have it installation DVD or a bootable USB Windows 10 installation to repair the system that will not boot.
        That is about as much as I know about the subject. Two tools that will be useful to you are the ease:
        first is to have some third-party program that does a good job of resizing partitions, creating new partitions and setting partitions to be either primary or logical partitions. Also, a good partition manager can also set the partition as active and also can identify or set of drive as being compatible with Windows. This usually is only needed if somebody is taken of drive and used it on a Jan UNIX system. So that point should not apply to you. Nevertheless, it is something to be aware of that there is a special mark that has to be put on a hard drive to indicate that it is compatible with Microsoft's definition of a disk operating system.
        Another tool you need is a good program for making both clones and backups of any partition or even all of your desk.
        The preferred tool, many users here indoors. Is a tool called Maxi him reflect. Sorry about the spelling, my voice recognition program doesn't understand what I said. Anyway here is a link to the product that I just mentioned.
        https://www.macrium.com/
        End of dictation.   :)

        Frankie

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          Re: Windows boot files on a seprate Hard drive
          « Reply #9 on: October 23, 2017, 12:03:08 AM »
          @Geek 9pm - Thank you for all the info, it's much appreciated..

          patio

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          Re: Windows boot files on a seprate Hard drive
          « Reply #10 on: October 23, 2017, 07:29:47 AM »
          If your Win10 Pro was registered than MS will have the info...wether it was upgrade ver. or full does not matter.

          Worst case you're a phone call away after the new HDD and Win 10 is installed.

          Then i would invest in an external HDD caddy and you would be able to access all the data from the old HDD.
          " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

          patio

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          Re: Windows boot files on a seprate Hard drive
          « Reply #11 on: October 23, 2017, 07:34:11 AM »
          See Here...

          All you need for Win 10...
          " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "