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Author Topic: Upgrading an old Monster HP Tower  (Read 3023 times)

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comda

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Upgrading an old Monster HP Tower
« on: April 17, 2018, 09:13:29 AM »
Greetings Computerhope!

I have an old, but gold machine that I've been using for the past year and I rather hate to admit how much I like it. It was a cheap purchase that I was wondering if I can upgrade a little more. Its a old HP Z620 Workstation Tower, featuring a Second generation Xeon chip. I will list full specs below.

I would like to upgrade the aging SSD inside, as I have a feeling it might be biting the dust soon. I was suggested getting a M2 SSD as im being told they are faster and a good Future proof idea (LMAO FUTURE PROOF) but the machine doesn't have a M2 slot, so I was suggested a M2 to PCI adapter. But after doing some research I still am unsure if this machine (motherboard) will boot from PCI SSD. I have never done a PCI SSD or a M2 SSD and was wondering if I could get some feedback. Besides that I do need a GPU upgrade but im holding out a bit for when prices drop..

Specs are:
HP Z620 Tower
Xeon E5-2640 6 Core 12 thread CPU at 2.5Ghz
16gb of Registered DDR3 ram (8 GB x 2 sticks)
Micron 256Gb SSD (Super old and kinda slow ish)
Nvidia GTX 750 Ti

Would it be worth the hassle, or can I get similar speeds in a SATA SSD? Would it even work? anyone has this line up of computers that has tried it? Please let me know.

This machine is my main Tower, so I Mainly use it for some Gaming, and internet browsing. Any suggestions are accepted. Thanks

patio

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Re: Upgrading an old Monster HP Tower
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2018, 09:22:31 AM »
What MBoard ? ?

Need that to answer your main question...
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comda

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Re: Upgrading an old Monster HP Tower
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2018, 09:36:18 AM »
Im not sure how you mean, as its just the HP Z620 Motherboard.... Its not a custom build... Guess I can check the HP replacement part number when I get home..

patio

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Re: Upgrading an old Monster HP Tower
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2018, 10:39:26 AM »
Well i looked up the MBoard specs and all they provide is the dimensions...brilliant.
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comda

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Re: Upgrading an old Monster HP Tower
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2018, 07:40:26 PM »
Alright.

Ive finally had a chance to pop open the case to Reveal its a HP Z620 board number FMB-1102.

I have linked the the machine's manual below as well.

https://www8.hp.com/h20195/v2/getpdf.aspx/c04111527.pdf?ver=5

DaveLembke



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Re: Upgrading an old Monster HP Tower
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2018, 09:51:59 AM »
My thoughts on this are that the PCI slot is going to be a performance bottleneck to faster than your already getting from your SATA II controller. PCI Express might be able to get past the bandwidth bottleneck, but I have serious doubts if older PCI slot adapter will out perform a SATA II controller direct on board connected to the main faster BUS.

I am actually surprised that you said that the older 256GB SSD is slow. I myself have some early SSD's in the 60 to 120GB capacity and they all run fast connected directly to SATA II onboard. While they might not be fast in comparison to newer SSD's, the OS boots to desktop in under 20 seconds after Windows splash logo and thats much faster than systems with HDD.

Are you using this for something where there are excessive read/write processes where a faster SSD is really needed or is it just the need for speed knowing there is faster and that bothers you so you want faster?

I had an application where I needed as fast of Read/Writing as I could get for a project that built upon prior written information. It hammered a HDD hard and so i tried it with a SSD. SSD was much faster, then I read up on a RAMDrive where you can allocate a section of system RAM to act as a Drive. So I allocated 2GB of 8GB DDR3 1600Mhz and HOLY CRAP was that FAST!!!!!!!!! Benchmarked the "Virtual" Drive acting in system RAM and it was 22x faster than my fastest Crucial M500 240GB SATA III SSD in SATA II connection.

RAM Drives basically are created by you using software/ Then that software creates an image of the RAM Drive and stores that image in on a HDD or SSD. Upon shutdown it writes whatever changes happened between boot and shutdown to the image file. And upon boot it injects that image back into the allocated space of system RAM. Depending on how much data is written from HDD or SSD to RAM on boot and written from RAM to HDD or SSD at shutdown affects the initial boot process speed. I have no problem turning a computer on and waiting 2 minutes for a 2GB RAMDrive to be ready as for while the system is running after that performance is insanely fast through that 2GB RAM Drive.

You can even put games on these RAMDrives and have the game run completely from system RAM so data is direct between the CPU and RAM. It doesnt get any faster than that!!!!  ;D Unless you then start upgrading RAM or CPU for faster performance components.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAM_drive

https://www.pcworld.com/article/260918/how_to_supercharge_your_pc_with_a_ram_disk.html

Here is the product i have used before: http://memory.dataram.com/products-and-services/software/ramdisk
*Note: Older versions allowed up to 2GB for free and they have since sized that down to 1GB for free. I guess there were too many people able to get by for free on 2GB without paying. Also there are other companies selling them too. Toshiba was selling a software solution for making RAMDisk/RAMDrive's geared towards gamers. Looks like AMD now is selling towards gamers as linked below. If you only have a need for a very fast 1GB space for a game or project there is the free solution of DataRAM RAMDisk. Additionally the 1GB DataRAM RAMDisk could be used for benchmarking to see how it would speed up your systems access to information before buying into a product for a larger capacity.

Up to 24GB Drive allocation of System RAM Gamer RAMDisk https://www.amd.com/en-us/products/memory/ramdisk


Maybe maxing out your RAM and use of a RAMDisk/RAMdrive is a solution for faster performance you need of a specific application or game. For me it was C++ code I wrote that passed data to a MySQL database and the system was reading and writing information from database and building upon it. It was Read/Write intensive which for a hard drive isnt that hard on the drive because HDD's are built for heavy read/write processes however it was SLOW with HDD light on constant and CPU utilization only 60% on a Athlon II x4 620 2.6Ghz CPU. I moved it over to my SSD and I burned out a OCZ 90GB SSD where I guess I reached the maximum cell writes and killed it. I knew using a SSD for this it was going to be fast, but also it was going to wear on the drive fast and well it did, I killed that SSD after 18 months of heavy use. CPU utilization of this process shot up to 92-100% so I knew that the CPU was no longer waiting for the hard drives lag to read/write, as the SSD was faster at sending and receiving info. I then discovered RAMDriving and how RAM is even more rugged than a HDD for massive read/write processes and FASTER!!! So I went this route for speed and not battering to death SSD's which have limited cell write cycles. This put my system at 100% CPU utilization which means its running full tilt ( = maximum efficiency and at full CPU/RAM performance ) and it was able to complete so much faster than the other methods.

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Re: Upgrading an old Monster HP Tower
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2018, 10:17:08 AM »
Expansion cards don't typically require motherboard support to boot. Ever since the first IBM PC expansion cards have been able to hook into the boot process.

Standard PCI would not be worthwhile to use in this instance. It would be slower than any SATA connection; 133Mbps versus 1.5gbps.

PCIe for a NVMe or M.2 drive would be faster, but those drives come at a premium over SATA drives of similar capabilities and you have to add in the cost of the adapter.

That motherboard has 2 SATA III ports, and 4 SATA II ports. SATA III gives 600MB/s. You'd have to dig into your pockets for about the same price as a graphics card in order to find M.2 SSDs that are capable of speeds higher than that.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

DaveLembke



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Re: Upgrading an old Monster HP Tower
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2018, 10:29:06 AM »
Attached is a benchmark between SSD and RAM Drive. Your performance benchmark will depend on RAM performance.

https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/ram-drives-faster-ssds-5-things-must-know/

A RAM Drive would outperform a SATA III SSD, however your limited by how large of an allocation of system RAM you can allocate to it. Too much allocated would mean that the system would be paging more through the SSD or HDD for whatever is running that is memory intensive etc.

https://www.geckoandfly.com/21507/ramdisk-virtual-disk-memory/


comda

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Re: Upgrading an old Monster HP Tower
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2018, 01:41:19 PM »
My thoughts on this are that the PCI slot is going to be a performance bottleneck to faster than your already getting from your SATA II controller. PCI Express might be able to get past the bandwidth bottleneck, but I have serious doubts if older PCI slot adapter will out perform a SATA II controller direct on board connected to the main faster BUS.

I am actually surprised that you said that the older 256GB SSD is slow. I myself have some early SSD's in the 60 to 120GB capacity and they all run fast connected directly to SATA II onboard. While they might not be fast in comparison to newer SSD's, the OS boots to desktop in under 20 seconds after Windows splash logo and thats much faster than systems with HDD.

Are you using this for something where there are excessive read/write processes where a faster SSD is really needed or is it just the need for speed knowing there is faster and that bothers you so you want faster?

I had an application where I needed as fast of Read/Writing as I could get for a project that built upon prior written information. It hammered a HDD hard and so i tried it with a SSD. SSD was much faster, then I read up on a RAMDrive where you can allocate a section of system RAM to act as a Drive. So I allocated 2GB of 8GB DDR3 1600Mhz and HOLY CRAP was that FAST!!!!!!!!! Benchmarked the "Virtual" Drive acting in system RAM and it was 22x faster than my fastest Crucial M500 240GB SATA III SSD in SATA II connection.

RAM Drives basically are created by you using software/ Then that software creates an image of the RAM Drive and stores that image in on a HDD or SSD. Upon shutdown it writes whatever changes happened between boot and shutdown to the image file. And upon boot it injects that image back into the allocated space of system RAM. Depending on how much data is written from HDD or SSD to RAM on boot and written from RAM to HDD or SSD at shutdown affects the initial boot process speed. I have no problem turning a computer on and waiting 2 minutes for a 2GB RAMDrive to be ready as for while the system is running after that performance is insanely fast through that 2GB RAM Drive.

You can even put games on these RAMDrives and have the game run completely from system RAM so data is direct between the CPU and RAM. It doesnt get any faster than that!!!!  ;D Unless you then start upgrading RAM or CPU for faster performance components.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAM_drive

https://www.pcworld.com/article/260918/how_to_supercharge_your_pc_with_a_ram_disk.html

Here is the product i have used before: http://memory.dataram.com/products-and-services/software/ramdisk
*Note: Older versions allowed up to 2GB for free and they have since sized that down to 1GB for free. I guess there were too many people able to get by for free on 2GB without paying. Also there are other companies selling them too. Toshiba was selling a software solution for making RAMDisk/RAMDrive's geared towards gamers. Looks like AMD now is selling towards gamers as linked below. If you only have a need for a very fast 1GB space for a game or project there is the free solution of DataRAM RAMDisk. Additionally the 1GB DataRAM RAMDisk could be used for benchmarking to see how it would speed up your systems access to information before buying into a product for a larger capacity.

Up to 24GB Drive allocation of System RAM Gamer RAMDisk https://www.amd.com/en-us/products/memory/ramdisk


Maybe maxing out your RAM and use of a RAMDisk/RAMdrive is a solution for faster performance you need of a specific application or game. For me it was C++ code I wrote that passed data to a MySQL database and the system was reading and writing information from database and building upon it. It was Read/Write intensive which for a hard drive isnt that hard on the drive because HDD's are built for heavy read/write processes however it was SLOW with HDD light on constant and CPU utilization only 60% on a Athlon II x4 620 2.6Ghz CPU. I moved it over to my SSD and I burned out a OCZ 90GB SSD where I guess I reached the maximum cell writes and killed it. I knew using a SSD for this it was going to be fast, but also it was going to wear on the drive fast and well it did, I killed that SSD after 18 months of heavy use. CPU utilization of this process shot up to 92-100% so I knew that the CPU was no longer waiting for the hard drives lag to read/write, as the SSD was faster at sending and receiving info. I then discovered RAMDriving and how RAM is even more rugged than a HDD for massive read/write processes and FASTER!!! So I went this route for speed and not battering to death SSD's which have limited cell write cycles. This put my system at 100% CPU utilization which means its running full tilt ( = maximum efficiency and at full CPU/RAM performance ) and it was able to complete so much faster than the other methods.

OMG im so sorry! I did mean PCIe not PCI. So Sorry about that. I was referring to something like this:

https://www.amazon.ca/StarTech-com-PEX4M2E1-M-2-Adapter-Profile/dp/B01FU9JS94?th=1&psc=1&source=googleshopping&locale=en-CA&tag=googcana-20&ref=pd_sl_6s8qoourmv_e

Once I get home, ill load up SSD-z and show you exactly what SSD I have. It feels like the WD black I had in my AMD machine.

Expansion cards don't typically require motherboard support to boot. Ever since the first IBM PC expansion cards have been able to hook into the boot process.

Standard PCI would not be worthwhile to use in this instance. It would be slower than any SATA connection; 133Mbps versus 1.5gbps.

PCIe for a NVMe or M.2 drive would be faster, but those drives come at a premium over SATA drives of similar capabilities and you have to add in the cost of the adapter.

That motherboard has 2 SATA III ports, and 4 SATA II ports. SATA III gives 600MB/s. You'd have to dig into your pockets for about the same price as a graphics card in order to find M.2 SSDs that are capable of speeds higher than that.


I thought so too, but I read on a post that I need the NVMe support to boot from the PCIe and M2. That was my goal. Again, sorry for the confusion about PCI and PCIe. I meant PCIe.

as for the M2 SSD, I was looking at the Data M2 SSD, which claims it could do 1000mbs thats linked below.
http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=179_1229_1296&item_id=114785

patio

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Re: Upgrading an old Monster HP Tower
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2018, 04:00:38 PM »
IMHO an M2 is a waste of cabbage in this scenario...i'd choose some of the alternatives listed above.
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comda

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Re: Upgrading an old Monster HP Tower
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2018, 10:43:30 AM »
Alright. I was considering a Crucial SATA SSD or perhaps a WD SSD. This is exactly what i currently have and its rather slow. thoughts?

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Re: Upgrading an old Monster HP Tower
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2018, 12:26:49 PM »
If that SSD is giving you poor performance it is probably failing. Based  on what I can find outside of that sort of confounding factor it should perform reasonably well- 325MB/s average sequential access and 13.2MB/s Random is nothing to scoff at. I have a 1TB Crucial 1050MX in my primary desktop system, which is considered reasonably fast and it averages around 400MB/s sequential and 29MB/s random read so the Micron isn't seriously underperforming in comparison, IMO.
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comda

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Re: Upgrading an old Monster HP Tower
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2018, 10:20:39 PM »
BC_Programmer,

Perhaps. im not sure where I saw this, but I do know this thing has been written to death. Its not that it performs poorly just I notice slower boot times then other SSD's but in windows it runs decently alright. Just figured a nice storage upgrade with size and speed would be the way to go. Just unsure whether to go WD SSD or Crucial SSD haha. Appreciate all the feedback I've gotten guys.

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Re: Upgrading an old Monster HP Tower
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2018, 02:31:16 AM »
Yeah SSDz (Nice tool find btw, I'd never heard of it!) doesn't appear to be showing the Bytes Written field there, so it's hard to know how much of a beating that SSD has taken.

Between those two options I'd opt for Crucial. SSDs are, after all, effectively a type of memory technology, a business that Crucial has been in for some time. Which isn't to suggest that the WD drive would be a particularly bad choice either.
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