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Author Topic: ComputerHope System Tray Program  (Read 38142 times)

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Zylstra

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ComputerHope System Tray Program
« on: January 01, 2007, 03:17:52 AM »
As some of you may remember, there was someone who came to ComputerHope quite a few months ago asking users opinions on a ComputerHope system tray program.
Unfortunately, not enough input was given.
If we can supply enough input about this program, and come up with some neat and realistic ideas, the idea of the program may turn to reality.
All you need to do is post your ideas

To do so, all you need to do is click the wonderful “Reply” button on the bottom of this post, and begin typing your ideas, thoughts, and suggestions. Then, once completed, simply press the POST button. Its really that simple.

And no, I am definitely not a Spam bot.

Some of the features that may be seen include:

    * Instant access to Computer Hope; no need to startup a browser, type in the website or fiddle with favorites or bookmarks.
    * Instant search of all Computer Hope web pages.
    * Built in access to the Computer Hope online chat room for real-time communications.
    * Managing of chat room nicknames, passwords and registration.
    * Instant computer-term (jargon) dictionary lookup.
    * Spyware, malware and virus free; it comes directly from Computer Hope so you know you can trust it!
    * All of this immediately accessible through a system tray icon near your clock, in a small, efficient, unobtrusive program.
    * Other features requested by Computer Hope users! Just tell us on the forum and see how many others would like to have it.
    * Easy download, install and uninstall; there are no nag screens and the program only opens when told to do so.
    * Runs on Microsoft Windows 98 and above (98, 98SE, ME, 2000, XP)

« Last Edit: January 01, 2007, 03:22:07 AM by zylstra555 »

Calum

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Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2007, 03:08:31 AM »
I think you are a spam bot really, just a clever one ;)
Seriously, I think it sounds like a great idea.
Especially the chat being integrated into the program, then more people might use it.
Another good idea might be a small popup when there is a new post?
Then you wouldn't have to keep refreshing your browser.
Just my two cents here.

dl65

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    Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
    « Reply #2 on: January 08, 2007, 02:59:58 PM »
     Calum....
    Quote
    Another good idea might be a small popup when there is a new post?

    How about using the Email [highlight]notification[/highlight] button ..........
    That will let you know .

    dl65  ::)
    If you don't know the answer, it isn't a dumb question.

    WillyW



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    Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
    « Reply #3 on: January 08, 2007, 03:55:49 PM »
    Quote
    Calum....
    Quote
    Another good idea might be a small popup when there is a new post?

    How about using the Email [highlight]notification[/highlight] button ..........

    I do.

    Quote
    That will let you know .

    dl65  ::)


    Except it stopped working.      :(






    .

    .



    Calum

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    Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
    « Reply #4 on: January 09, 2007, 07:46:53 AM »
    Quote
    Calum....
    Quote
    Another good idea might be a small popup when there is a new post?

    How about using the Email [highlight]notification[/highlight] button ..........
    That will let you know .

    dl65  ::)
    I meant in the system tray.
    Then my email inbox doesn't get cluttered up.
    And you have to subscribe to notifications - I meant any new post, not just ones I ask for notifications of.
    And maybe it could be configured to only notify new posts in certain sub-boards as well?
    Do you get what I mean now?
    « Last Edit: January 09, 2007, 07:49:12 AM by Calum »

    unlovedwarrior



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      Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
      « Reply #5 on: January 25, 2007, 09:33:46 AM »
      who is doing this??


      ill be a beta tester before it gets released to the public.

      unlovedwarrior

      Zylstra

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      Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
      « Reply #6 on: January 30, 2007, 08:58:31 PM »
      A person who is a programmer of the C and D programming languages is doing this

      unlovedwarrior



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        Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
        « Reply #7 on: January 31, 2007, 08:50:08 AM »
        Quote
        A person who is a programmer of the C and [highlight]D[/highlight] programming languages is doing this
        ??

        Zylstra

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        Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
        « Reply #8 on: January 31, 2007, 09:16:38 PM »
        The D programming language is fairly new, and not very common yet, nor do many people know about it, and tha also leads it to being hard to research.


        Neil



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          Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
          « Reply #9 on: February 02, 2007, 05:39:35 PM »
          Who exactly is this person, and what is his motivation? The admin will probably want to see the source code to ensure it is "clean" before endorsing it... would this person be willing to share his source code?

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          Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
          « Reply #10 on: February 02, 2007, 05:50:04 PM »
          He's endorsed. He's actually a friend of Computer Hope and I'm sure would have no bad intentions. He really just wanted to do a programming project for Computer Hope and thought this would be something users may be interested in. Right now however, he's working on a different project for Computer Hope. But if their is enough interest for something like this I'm sure he could do this as well.

          Wish he wasn't so shy and would come on to the forums and talk... Think he was scared away when he made his first post. ;)
          Everybody is a genius. But, if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.
          -Albert Einstein

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            Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
            « Reply #11 on: February 02, 2007, 10:30:48 PM »
            Sorry... we thought he was a bot. :(
            "The geek shall inherit the Earth."

            Zylstra

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            Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
            « Reply #12 on: February 10, 2007, 08:51:01 PM »
            Come on people, what do you want in this program? There has to be something.
            What would you want to see in this program? What do you think it should look like, and how would you use it? How does it work with ComputerHope? How does it interact with the Forum? Should things be tabbed like the Windows Display settings are organized? Should it link to the website and take you into your default browser, or should the program open it for you? What features should it have?

            Blackberry



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              Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
              « Reply #13 on: February 13, 2007, 11:55:57 AM »
              Have a favourite page-button and a follow-page button
              Favourite to list a page on the computerhope forum on your favourites (same idea as in a browser) and follow-page button a button to c if there is a new post in a topic (same idea as with the email)
              Everybody knows you can't click here. But I know you will try it :)

              Saviour

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              Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
              « Reply #14 on: March 13, 2007, 04:19:55 AM »
              Instead of a system tray program...why not just go to www.conduit.com and design a Computer Hope toolbar and let your users choose whether or not they want to install it.

              I currently have one on my website...no this isn't a spam post.  Several users have installed it and think it's fantastic.  Works with IE5+ and Firefox.

              If I were you...I'd look into that, first, before I spent a lot of time on a system tray program.

              Calum

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              Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
              « Reply #15 on: March 14, 2007, 10:05:27 AM »
              You know, that's a good idea.
              Might be worth a look at least, the Saviour PC toolbar is pretty useful.

              ntrealemail

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              Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
              « Reply #16 on: March 21, 2007, 03:35:37 AM »
              perhaps it could be something like an archive of questions asked with solutions from previously asked questions with various possible responses getting rid of the pointless answers.  If your question isn't archived then you can click on a thing to go to the website and it automatically logs you on.  Basically your search engine placed in it but to eliminate responses that were not helpful.

              Zylstra

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              Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
              « Reply #17 on: March 21, 2007, 08:45:15 AM »
              Quote
              perhaps it could be something like an archive of questions asked with solutions from previously asked questions with various possible responses getting rid of the pointless answers.  If your question isn't archived then you can click on a thing to go to the website and it automatically logs you on.  Basically your search engine placed in it but to eliminate responses that were not helpful.
              You mean  like a Google Site Search?
              http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-26%2CGGLJ%3Aen&q=CD+ROM+Try+will+not+eject+site%3Acomputerhope.com
              Where it just looks at all the topics what whatnot... (the only problem is that it does index some useless information)

              Raptor

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              Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
              « Reply #18 on: March 21, 2007, 04:50:44 PM »
              Quote
              I meant in the system tray.
              Then my email inbox doesn't get cluttered up.

              Why are you more concerned about saving 15kb of HDD space than 2mb of memory space.. ?
              « Last Edit: March 21, 2007, 04:51:02 PM by Raptor »

              ntrealemail

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              Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
              « Reply #19 on: March 21, 2007, 09:49:54 PM »
              I dont mean a google search site im just saying something that you can download that already has everything archived and put in order according to what the question is about of all the old questions and responses already on your pc so that you don't end up asking a question that was asked say 6-7 months ago.  With a search utility in the program to search itself for similar questions.   Not on the web but already stored on your pc.  Like you know how windows has a help and support kind of thing something based off of something like that but with the questions that are already on here.  Another person mentioned a chat thing as well which could be integrated?  I don't know i am just throwing things out there.  
              « Last Edit: March 21, 2007, 09:52:50 PM by ntrealemail »

              Calum

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              Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
              « Reply #20 on: March 22, 2007, 02:58:00 PM »
              Quote
              Quote
              I meant in the system tray.
              Then my email inbox doesn't get cluttered up.

              Why are you more concerned about saving 15kb of HDD space than 2mb of memory space.. ?
              I'm not.
              It's just that I have enough emails already, I'm not short of space or RAM (far from it, I use Gmail and I also have 1Gb of RAM) but I don't want hundreds more emails.
              What I meant was having it pop up, or change colour, when a new post is made.
              It was just a suggestion it may not be feasible, I don't know.
              « Last Edit: March 22, 2007, 02:58:31 PM by Calum »

              ntrealemail

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              Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
              « Reply #21 on: March 23, 2007, 08:32:32 PM »
              Are there any other ideas out there about what should be integrated?  lol I really cant think of any i mean the site is what it is and i mean really what else does the site need ?

              Carbon Dudeoxide

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              Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
              « Reply #22 on: March 29, 2007, 02:50:41 AM »
              A program connected to ComputerHope Forums that sits next to your system clock on you toolbar would be really cool. It could tell you like what new posts there have been since you last booted your comptuer or since you last checked. With that program you can also manage your account and go to the website and stuff. It would be really cool.

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              Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
              « Reply #23 on: April 14, 2007, 08:53:46 AM »
              I'd like a tool to make Windows less *censored*.

              patio

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              Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
              « Reply #24 on: April 14, 2007, 09:55:54 AM »
              I'd like a tool to make Windows less *censored*.

              Great Idea !

              This may take some time, however....

               ;D
              " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

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              Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
              « Reply #25 on: April 14, 2007, 11:15:38 AM »
              I'd like a tool to make Windows less *censored*.
              Linux?

              Raptor

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              Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
              « Reply #26 on: April 14, 2007, 12:35:12 PM »
              I'd like a tool to make Windows less *censored*.
              Linux?

              It'd have to run from my system tray!

              Calum

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              Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
              « Reply #27 on: April 14, 2007, 12:40:21 PM »
              I'd like a tool to make Windows less *censored*.
              Linux?
              It'd have to run from my system tray!
              Within Windows?
              That could be a problem.
              What about VirtualPC?
              LOL, best I could find.

              jackpkmn

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              Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
              « Reply #28 on: April 15, 2007, 05:41:08 PM »
              a system tray icon sounds like a great idea however there are some major tasks to overcome fist.

              some of the forum software will need a MOD in order to notify people of new replys in threads that they wanted to keep updated on

              chat program shouldent be difficult to write

              mabey somthing like a list to alot of helpfull FAQs for people who are new to the computer world or mabey need a refresher on a certian pice of overclocking infor before they blow thier prossesor's brains to the moon ;)

              i would say that its a go but it needs a compiled list of features to present to the programmer and find out what he can and cant do. some of these things would be complicated.

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              Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
              « Reply #29 on: May 10, 2007, 08:00:21 AM »
              I have to reply because jackpkmn has been named next to this thread for the past month and every time I come to the Other board, I see his name and it makes me think of Pokémon and it's been really bugging me for some weird reason.  I've finally cracked!





              And I'm also wondering what the current status is on this program.
              Quote
              An undefined problem has an infinite number of solutions.
              —Robert A. Humphrey

              Carbon Dudeoxide

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              Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
              « Reply #30 on: May 10, 2007, 08:03:52 AM »
              I have to reply because jackpkmn has been named next to this thread for the past month and every time I come to the Other board, I see his name and it makes me think of Pokémon and it's been really bugging me for some weird reason.  I've finally cracked!





              And I'm also wondering what the current status is on this program.
              Lol, pokemon.....it was fun but now I think back and realise how much time i have wasted....
              I actually have the games on the computer :P

              I had a dream about the program, that is REALLY sad.

              Raptor

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              Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
              « Reply #31 on: May 10, 2007, 09:09:55 AM »
              Quote
              I had a dream about the program, that is REALLY sad.

              Don't worry, if it was about Sally it was perfectly normal.

              if it was about Ash and Brock or any of the Pokemon in question 'd be worried.

              Zylstra

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              Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
              « Reply #32 on: May 10, 2007, 01:59:44 PM »
              The last time I heard, the program is coming along, but very slowly.

              (Lets wait for the Administrators report)

              Jonas Wauters



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                Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
                « Reply #33 on: May 10, 2007, 02:46:29 PM »
                Actually I like the Idea of a incon at the system tray but the toolbar...
                It would be a really good thing if you could see the latest post on when you just click it and the idea to see if there is a reply is also a good one.
                I think this is going to be a super tray incon.  :D

                Jonas ;)
                « Last Edit: May 12, 2007, 12:28:35 PM by Jonas Wauters »

                ultimatum



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                  Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
                  « Reply #34 on: May 12, 2007, 12:25:37 PM »
                  The system tray program is a great idea, sounds similar to metacafe's programs. Although, it would be nice to have the live chat with other members that way you won't have to wait as much for a reply and it would instant messenging, way faster to solve problems. Already probably mention here, to have some kind of icon appearing on new posted topics/posts instead of email notification (just like the one on this forum at the top "Show new replies to your posts") but without actually having to click it there would be an icon or a star, something to represent a new post. May be an area or a window for top/most popular topics.
                  Its not what you know, its what you can do that counts!

                  Carbon Dudeoxide

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                  Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
                  « Reply #35 on: May 12, 2007, 09:30:17 PM »
                  Live chat could get out of hands though........

                  ultimatum



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                    Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
                    « Reply #36 on: May 12, 2007, 10:30:49 PM »
                    Live chat could get out of hands though........

                    Thats why there are moderators.
                    Its not what you know, its what you can do that counts!

                    Carbon Dudeoxide

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                    Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
                    « Reply #37 on: May 12, 2007, 10:33:54 PM »
                    Live chat could get out of hands though........

                    Thats why there are moderators.
                    But moderators aren't on all the time...

                    ultimatum



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                      Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
                      « Reply #38 on: May 12, 2007, 10:39:09 PM »
                      Live chat could get out of hands though........

                      Thats why there are moderators.
                      But moderators aren't on all the time...

                      A number of them from different countries with different time zones will do or language filters I suppose. Also, people on this forum don't look like they would cause trouble since you don't see any happenning on right now.  :-\
                      Its not what you know, its what you can do that counts!

                      Carbon Dudeoxide

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                      Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
                      « Reply #39 on: May 12, 2007, 10:40:20 PM »
                      Yeah true

                      Calum

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                      Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
                      « Reply #40 on: May 13, 2007, 05:41:31 AM »
                      We already have a live support chat, and people can only talk to operators, meaning it's always one on one chat(not for the operator, they may be talking to any number of people) but it's not open to abuse, the admin chooses the operators.
                      We used to have an IRC channel instead, but it was closed down because it kept cashing out, as I recall there were too many users across the network so people couldn't join.

                      Zylstra

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                      Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
                      « Reply #41 on: May 13, 2007, 03:10:01 PM »
                      We already have a live support chat, and people can only talk to operators, meaning it's always one on one chat(not for the operator, they may be talking to any number of people) but it's not open to abuse, the admin chooses the operators.
                      We used to have an IRC channel instead, but it was closed down because it kept cashing out, as I recall there were too many users across the network so people couldn't join.
                      The IRC channel still exists, its just no one uses it anymore ( irc.blitzed.org , #computerhope )
                      The current chat room is easier for the client side, its not meant for just chatting.

                      I would love to see a recreational chatroom
                      (someone could make one, or someone could make a web portal for the chat)

                      Live chat could get out of hands though........

                      Thats why there are moderators.
                      But moderators aren't on all the time...
                      Were watching you
                      http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=eyes&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2

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                      Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
                      « Reply #42 on: May 13, 2007, 03:12:45 PM »
                      Quote
                      I would love to see a recreational chatroom
                      (someone could make one, or someone could make a web portal for the chat)

                      Yeah, with webcam access to really put the recreat in recreational!

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                      Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
                      « Reply #43 on: May 13, 2007, 06:55:16 PM »
                      The developer I had and had planned on working on this has seemed to vanish once again. So not much I can say about the status of this project. However, with the increased popularity of the post maybe it's something I can move up on the to-do list.

                      Sorry, not much of an update, but at least a reply.  :-\

                      Everybody is a genius. But, if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.
                      -Albert Einstein

                      Zylstra

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                      Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
                      « Reply #44 on: May 13, 2007, 09:01:37 PM »
                      Perhaps members of the community could put parts of it together?
                      Or even building an online web application... a lobby type chat is a fairly simple operation

                      Calum

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                      Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
                      « Reply #45 on: May 14, 2007, 09:16:22 AM »
                      We already have a live support chat, and people can only talk to operators, meaning it's always one on one chat(not for the operator, they may be talking to any number of people) but it's not open to abuse, the admin chooses the operators.
                      We used to have an IRC channel instead, but it was closed down because it kept cashing out, as I recall there were too many users across the network so people couldn't join.
                      The IRC channel still exists, its just no one uses it anymore ( irc.blitzed.org , #computerhope )
                      Really?
                      I looked and couldn't find it.
                      Maybe just me.
                      Perhaps members of the community could put parts of it together?
                      Or even building an online web application... a lobby type chat is a fairly simple operation
                      Talk to JohnK about it, he has pjIRC on his site, a web based IRC chat client.
                      That's what I'll be using when I have time to set it up.

                      Zylstra

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                      Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
                      « Reply #46 on: May 14, 2007, 01:56:03 PM »
                      Oops, I'm wrong

                      The IRC.BLITZED channel is gone...

                      linuxlover



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                        Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
                        « Reply #47 on: May 29, 2007, 07:26:42 PM »
                        perhaps a linux and mac version
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                        Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
                        « Reply #48 on: May 29, 2007, 07:52:58 PM »
                        Not so sure about a Mac version
                        (Hardly anyone here uses them, and they are way to hard to program for)

                        Linux is more common on this forum (second next to Windows) and would be much easier.

                        unlovedwarrior



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                          Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
                          « Reply #49 on: May 30, 2007, 08:52:24 AM »
                          linux lover you scared me when i saw your pic i thought you were raptor at a low post count again lol

                          Amrykid



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                            Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
                            « Reply #50 on: September 06, 2007, 04:58:09 PM »
                            ill be a beta tester. I love to test things.
                            whos doing it?
                            i can wait for it.
                            no, linuxlover's pic looks like a guy from star trek, lol
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                            Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
                            « Reply #51 on: September 06, 2007, 10:55:03 PM »
                            ill be a beta tester. I love to test things.
                            whos doing it?
                            i can wait for it.
                            no, linuxlover's pic looks like a guy from star trek, lol
                            Recent updates (well, the most recent we have) say that (And this is a few pages back) this is still only an idea, and its going to take a very VERY long time before you can expect anything.

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                              Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
                              « Reply #52 on: September 07, 2007, 04:41:35 PM »
                              I have some ideas about what to put on it. But I'd like to know if the project is gonna go forward before taking the time to post them. Oh, and I think it would be a cool idea!

                              Amrykid



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                                Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
                                « Reply #53 on: September 12, 2007, 03:38:14 PM »
                                ill like to see the app come true  ;D
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                                Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
                                « Reply #54 on: September 12, 2007, 03:50:53 PM »
                                The only GUI programming I know is the simplest of VisualBasics,
                                We could just create an application that uses the API of Internet Explorer, that just access a page (or a mini-site created for the program, contained in its own directory) with a few Perl scripts.

                                No idea how to make it go into the system tray though...

                                Comp Guy



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                                  Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
                                  « Reply #55 on: September 12, 2007, 04:15:52 PM »
                                  I will know how to program when I finish school.... in about 3 years!

                                  Amrykid



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                                    Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
                                    « Reply #56 on: September 12, 2007, 05:37:56 PM »
                                    i know how to make a nofity icon (ivon in system tray for the app) appear.
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                                      Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
                                      « Reply #57 on: September 28, 2007, 11:46:19 PM »
                                      I'd love to have a Computer Hope system tray button that reads PANIC. :o

                                      gamerx365



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                                      Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
                                      « Reply #58 on: December 17, 2007, 09:00:56 AM »
                                      how about it shows you when you have a new reply to one of your posts, like a little message box pops up or sumthing... and in the box a link to that topic and a link to the new replies page. also maybe a messenger to interact with other CH users.

                                      Tranc3r



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                                        Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
                                        « Reply #59 on: March 25, 2008, 12:05:01 AM »
                                        * Built in access to the Computer Hope online chat room for real-time communications.

                                        heh Broni, Patio you guys better be ready cuz a lot of people will be lookin for you!


                                        hey also guys i've seen in other chat rooms people spamming and scripting bots to spam chat rooms, so we should keep that in mind as well
                                        Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaazzzzzzzzaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaa!!

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                                        Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
                                        « Reply #60 on: March 25, 2008, 12:11:26 AM »
                                        There is always RSS



                                        I use an add-on for Firefox called Feed Sidebar.


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                                        Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
                                        « Reply #61 on: June 02, 2008, 03:02:34 PM »
                                        To help un-clutter the top stickies of "Other" I'm un-stickying (is that even a word) this post. There hasn't been much initiative on this idea and although I think it'd be potentially useful I know I can't personally get around to it any time soon.

                                        If anyone wants to take on the task of creating a Computer Hope Tray program or toolbar they're always more than welcome too. Otherwise I think the custom toolbar / RSS ideas mentioned in this thread are some good alternatives. That can be done in any browser / platform.
                                        Everybody is a genius. But, if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.
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                                        Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
                                        « Reply #62 on: June 02, 2008, 03:12:55 PM »
                                        Free Community Toolbar - Syndicate your website directly to the browser

                                        http://www.conduit.com/Toolbar/PlatformOverview.aspx

                                        Zylstra

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                                        Re: ComputerHope System Tray Program
                                        « Reply #63 on: June 02, 2008, 08:03:26 PM »
                                        I'm not sure I would want another toolbar in my browser, personally. (Google is enough for me)
                                        Though, I did check out that website that Evilfantasy just posted, it looks interesting.


                                        It think it would be neat if ComputerHope had a general kind of "Lounge" chatroom, accessible through a web interface or client (IRC would be my personal suggestion)

                                        I'd be willing to create it.
                                        I would recommenced one of the following servers though: Freenode.net, Blitzed.org, or Randomnet.org. (I know the network admin of Randomnet. They are trying to get more users to help get their new and quite fine quality IRC network up out of the mud)