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Author Topic: Suggestions for CH (And some reasons as to why we suggested these)  (Read 15917 times)

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Raptor

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Discussed & compiled by me and CBMatt.. What are your thoughts?

SUGGESTIONS:

1. Hardware/software details have to be filled out when registering.  Omitting this data is not an option.  If a user is unsure of how to obtain said information, they may be directed towards a tool such as SIW or Everest.  If possible, a good method would be the ability to save information for multiple computers. Then, when somebody posts, they can choose which computer they're talking about. Much like the billing plans on a site such as Amazon.

2. A FORCED spellcheck before posting. (It doesn't have to come out clean, just force people to go through the words that the speller thinks are misspelled.)

3. The option to provide an area of specialization/skill/hobby and the possible existence of papers to prove this.  This information will be available in your profile to help everyone recognize your level of knowledge/understanding.

4. A system where a poster's problem is ranked and the most skilled person is chosen for the job. One on one service; but other members can leave comments. (Comments should be smaller than forum posts and not in the actual topic, but rather on another page as can be found on Wikipedia.)

5. Some sort of three-strikes system. If someone is unable to comply to the rules, they get one (maybe two) warnings. And if they continue to provide inadequate information or make incoherent posts, then they're automatically banned.

6. There should be some sort of time limit. If the OP doesn't respond within two days (or whatever specified amount of time would be appropriate), then they are notified and/or their post is deleted. It's tiresome seeing threads where people will post suggestions for a week but the OP is long gone. There should also be some sort of limit on new threads (perhaps a grace period) to help cut down on multiple postings.

7. Postcounts should be hidden from the general public. Or at least only viewable in a user's profile. It seems like people tend to wear it as a badge, which causes some of the younger members (and older immature members) to post blindly in hopes of reaching some sort of status.

8. Perhaps users' posts could be categorized under the different computers on their profile. Instead of seeing all of their posts, we get a list of their computers on file, then choosing one will list the posts pertaining to that computer. Perhaps there could be several ways of filtering the posts. Such as seeing only that user's past software issues or hardware issues or whatever.


---------------------------------------
ARGUMENTS:
1. The forum is not making any progress. We're constantly repeating ourself and the way the forum operates is not very efficient. We should take a more professional/corporate approach to solving problems, like the live-chat function ComputerHope has.  We do this to help people, not to repeat ourselves as many times as possible each week and one-on-one help is a lot better than having people post random comments or things completely irrelevant to the situation.

2. The Off-Topic section is a mess. We can use the Computer News section and post all of the news messages there, which can turn out pretty much off-topic, but at least the discussions there would be semi-productive and not completely random, redundant, and irrelevant, as is the case now in Off-Topic and Forum Games.  Lately, it's causing a MySpace-like atmosphere and the off-topic discussion is overflowing into other discussions.

3. ComputerHope could be more efficient if the forum was handled in a more strict manner through software, not just rules. As people don't pay attention to the rules anyway. A filtering systemóike having to fill out your hardware when you register an accountórevents people who have the attention span of a goldfish to come and annoy the h**l out of everyone.

Sure, CH aims to help everyone, but we'd rather aim to help out those who truly deserve it and really couldn't find an answer to their problems instead of those who choose us over Google, even though they're going to have to learn some time.

For every 10 people with a lack of an attention span, there is one good person. And the quality of help suffers because of these 9 others. It's better to reduce that number or do away with it entirely.  Much like corporations wouldn't answer people who do not buy their products but have questions about a product in general, we shouldn't answer people who are A) Incoherent B) Wasting our time C) Just plain ignorant.

Free help doesn't mean we have to put up with some of the things people would want us to put up with here.

M1CH431



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    I'd have to agree with suggestions: 1,2,5,6 and 7. I also agree with the arguments, definitely some good points in the suggestions and arguments.

    CBMatt

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    Well, I'm glad someone at least partially agrees with us.  I'd like to know what everyone on here thinks, but the board appears to be a bit dead tonight.  I'm wondering how many stones will be tossed our way.  Heh.
    Quote
    An undefined problem has an infinite number of solutions.
    óRobert A. Humphrey

    soybean



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    I also think Iíd vote for 1,2,5,6, and 7.   

    #3 may be a bit too much; it seems to kinda overlook practical experience.  If I understand it correctly, some good past contributors could actually be barred from participation due to lack of formal certification. 

    #4 also seems a bit far-fetched.  Choose the most skilled person is chosen for the job?   Uh, hold on here.  Letís remember this is a volunteer community.  This suggestion seems to impose a responsibility on the most skilled person chosen for the job to be available when needed.  Again, this is a volunteer community.  And, I donít think that calls for the level of commitment implied in this suggestion.

    Regarding the arguments, I donít agree that the Off-Topic section is a mess.   Why does it matter if discussions there are not ďproductiveĒ?  They donít need to be productive (in terms of computing topics); indeed, the Off-Topic section was, in a sense, created for non-productive discussions, created to provide an area specifically for off-topic discussions.

    Regarding the implementation of some or most of these suggestions, Iím sure the feasibility of doing so depends on whether the SMF forum software is designed to accommodate such ideas, and I doubt that it is so designed.

    dl65

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      hummmmmmmm........
      Quote
      Discussed & compiled by me and CBMatt.. What are your thoughts?
      Under suggestions...... There are several things mentioned that make sense. The remainder, appear to be a little intrusive.

      Under ARGUMENTS.....
      Quote
      The forum is not making any progress
      How are you defining progress........... Perhaps ask a few of the visitors and or members, who have come here looking for a solution to some issue and it has been resolved, what they think.

      Quote
      The Off-Topic section is a mess
         If memory serves me , it was the members who lobbied to get a off-topic section.

      Quote
      ComputerHope could be more efficient if the forum was handled in a more strict manner
      Ah ...... do we mean, 1 spelling error (a warning), 1 poorly worded sentance. (a warning), posting in the wrong place........  oops that 3 your banned.......... get a grip people.

      Quote
      Sure, CH aims to help everyone, but we'd rather aim to help out those who truly deserve it and really couldn't find an answer to their problems instead of those who choose us over Google, even though they're going to have to learn some time.
      ........ Who decides who truly needs help?

      Quote
      For every 10 people with a lack of an attention span, there is one good person. And the quality of help suffers because of these 9 others. It's better to reduce that number or do away with it entirely.  Much like corporations wouldn't answer people who do not buy their products but have questions about a product in general, we shouldn't answer people who are A) Incoherent B) Wasting our time C) Just plain ignorant.
      ......... Again everyone is differant ........ thats just the way it is as frustrating as it may be.

      Quote
      Free help doesn't mean we have to put up with some of the things people would want us to put up with here.
      ...... Again, clearly the posters who ask for those items such as how to make a virus or how to fool WGA do not know that Computer Hope doesn't offer this type of information.

      I understand your frustration, however people arrive at Computer Hope usually because they have some sort of issue. These people may be from anywhere in the world and may not have a good understanding of the english language ........... Hows your Hindi , Cantonese or Polish.

      Cheers,

      dl65  ::)

      If you don't know the answer, it isn't a dumb question.

      Carbon Dudeoxide

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      A lot of good points from Raptor and Dl65.

      I think 1 and 3 are really good, share your hobbies and knowledge without using the Off-Topic forum.

      Quote
      Quote
      ComputerHope could be more efficient if the forum was handled in a more strict manner
      Ah ...... do we mean, 1 spelling error (a warning), 1 poorly worded sentance. (a warning), posting in the wrong place........  oops that 3 your banned.......... get a grip people.
      Yeah, and if a newbie doesn't post enough information about their system, what will happen? We all make mistakes.

      CBMatt

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      Quote
      #3 may be a bit too much; it seems to kinda overlook practical experience.  If I understand it correctly, some good past contributors could actually be barred from participation due to lack of formal certification.
      Like Raptor's post says, this would be optional.  Neither of us have any formal certifications either; it would just be a nice option to have for profiles.  Notice that "hobby" is also mentioned.  Other words, that would be your area of interest, for those of us who don't have any official papers.

      Quote
      #4 also seems a bit far-fetched.  Choose the most skilled person is chosen for the job?   Uh, hold on here.  Let’s remember this is a volunteer community.  This suggestion seems to impose a responsibility on the most skilled person chosen for the job to be available when needed.  Again, this is a volunteer community.  And, I don’t think that calls for the level of commitment implied in this suggestion.
      Point taken.  As this was more Raptor's suggestion, I'll let him give a rebuttal if he wishes to do so.

      Quote
      Regarding the arguments, I don’t agree that the Off-Topic section is a mess.   Why does it matter if discussions there are not “productive”?  They don’t need to be productive (in terms of computing topics); indeed, the Off-Topic section was, in a sense, created for non-productive discussions, created to provide an area specifically for off-topic discussions.
      My issue with the Off-Topic section is that it seems to be spilling out onto the other forums.  We all like to have a bit of fun; but since the inclusion of the Off-Topic section, the "play area" and "work area" seem to be meshing more.  Before having this designated section, I didn't notice this nearly as much.  It brings in...certain un-named members who just seem to want to goof off and talk to people.  That's what chat rooms are for.

      Quote
      Regarding the implementation of some or most of these suggestions, I’m sure the feasibility of doing so depends on whether the SMF forum software is designed to accommodate such ideas, and I doubt that it is so designed.
      We understand that many of these things would be difficult to implement.  Heck, some of them might be downright impossible.  But it doesn't hurt to bring it up for a friendly debate (and let's please try to keep this friendly, gentlemen).  If enough people agree on something and we decide that it's in our best interest, perhaps we can find some sort of workaround.




      Quote
      hummmmmmmm........
      Quote
      Discussed & compiled by me and CBMatt.. What are your thoughts?
      Under suggestions...... There are several things mentioned that make sense. The remainder, appear to be a little intrusive.
      Anything intrusive is probably Raptor.  Ha.

      Quote
      Quote
      The forum is not making any progress
      How are you defining progress........... Perhaps ask a few of the visitors and or members, who have come here looking for a solution to some issue and it has been resolved, what they think.
      Perhaps this one was overstated just a little.  Yes, there is some progress.  Personally, I feel I have made a lot of my own progress since joining ComputerHope.  I've learned a lot since coming here with my own problems.  However, as a whole, we're not making much progress.  Yes, we help a lot of people.  Yes, people learn something by coming here.  That's what's great about this place.  But it gets tiresome repeating ourselves over and over to answer the same questions that could be found on Google in a few seconds.  I understand that it's not always easy to know what to search for (I myself sometimes need a point in the right direction), but some things are just common sense.  I'm sure GX1_Man feels me on this one.

      Quote
      Quote
      ComputerHope could be more efficient if the forum was handled in a more strict manner
      Ah ...... do we mean, 1 spelling error (a warning), 1 poorly worded sentance. (a warning), posting in the wrong place........  oops that 3 your banned.......... get a grip people.
      We're not talking about being that strict.  We can't all be perfect, and that's acceptable.  But some people appear to make no real effort.  A few spelling errors here and there are fine.  But someone who provides very little or almost no information, or someone who is flat-out incoherent is counter-productive and wasting time.  The continuation of this sort of activity is what the "three-strikes rule" refers to.  And spam and multiple-postings as well, of course.

      Quote
      I understand your frustration, however people arrive at Computer Hope usually because they have some sort of issue. These people may be from anywhere in the world and may not have a good understanding of the english language ........... Hows your Hindi , Cantonese or Polish.
      We understand that there are some language barriers, and that's understandable, but some people are just plain lazy when it comes to communicating.  There are several members here whom I recently found out are American and I have to say I was very surprised to discover this.  Some people flat-out don't make an effort to make sense.

      That's part of the reason why we suggested the spellcheck.  It could really help things out if there were some sort of automated spellcheck when posting, much like some e-mail clients.  And we're not saying that it's an automatic ban if someone can't spell.  As long as I can understand what someone's saying, it's fine with me.





      Quote
      Yeah, and if a newbie doesn't post enough information about their system, what will happen? We all make mistakes.
      Being a newbie isn't an excuse for ignorance.  Even when I was totally new to computers, this stuff wasn't hard to find out.  Heck, most of the important information is printed on the front of the PC!  And something isn't, it literally takes seconds to find out on Google.  Manufacturer sites are also very useful for this (that would be the most logical approach, I think).  For the longest time, I had no idea what motherboard I have.  It isn't listed anywhere.  I found Everest and it listed it as unknown.  Well, I spent a whole five minutes on the Gateway site and got all of the information I needed (including stuff I didn't even think of).

      In my mind, there would be a large feedback form prior to registration, and it would list all of the components we need information for.  If there's somebody doesn't know something, the form can refer them to Google, SIW, Everest, etc.  It's really quite simple.  I think anyone who isn't willing to make the effort must not really be serious about their problem(s).  If they are in fact serious, they'll take the time to fill out the form.  And the best part about it is that it'll help them learn some things about their computer.  Better yet, while looking up information, they may even stumble upon a solution on their own.  I know I often do.

      This seems pretty win-win to me.  Not only do new users keep us from wasting time asking questions that should've been provided from the start; they also learn something in the process!  And isn't that what we want?



      EDIT:  A thought I had...perhaps there could be a General Help section.  Those who are serious can actually go through the registration process and gain access to the normal forums.  Those who are totally lost/clueless would be limited to the General Help.  That way, we could make progress without having to deny those who need help.  I think this is fair, and I'm sure it would be possible to set up.
      « Last Edit: May 16, 2007, 02:27:21 AM by CBMatt »
      Quote
      An undefined problem has an infinite number of solutions.
      óRobert A. Humphrey

      reaper_tbs



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      i reckon live chat is an awesome idea. the spealing mitakering thin gy (spelling mistake thingo, or spellcheck is also a good idea, an understandable one at that, which some of the others are not. i might expand on this comment another time but i really couldn't be bothered right now, i've just been on a 30 hour plane trip and i'm wondering why it's bright outside at 10:30 pm.

      so there.
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      i reckon live chat is an awesome idea. the spealing mitakering thin gy (spelling mistake thingo, or spellcheck is also a good idea, an understandable one at that, which some of the others are not. i might expand on this comment another time but i really couldn't be bothered right now, i've just been on a 30 hour plane trip and i'm wondering why it's bright outside at 10:30 pm.

      so there.
      Actually, we do have a live chat; it's just that it doesn't seem to get much use.  And from what I've seen, it also appears to be in bad shape.  I would share some examples, but I'm having trouble with getting the chatlogs to work properly for me.  The site's been giving some grief for a few days now.
      Quote
      An undefined problem has an infinite number of solutions.
      óRobert A. Humphrey

      Carbon Dudeoxide

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      Quote
      My issue with the Off-Topic section is that it seems to be spilling out onto the other forums. 
      I agree with you CBMatt, although I think the Off-Topic section is good, it is being spread onto the other forums.
      For example, sometimes after a question is solved, everyone start talking about random stuff. Somtimes it is relavent but sometimes it isnt.

      reaper_tbs



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      i also agree, but, irrelevance is the point of the off-topic forum, but the problem is when that irrelevance leaks out to other topics.
      Computer Hope

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      2k_dummy



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        Sometimes the irrelevant comments are just meant as a joke. Theres nothing wrong with that.

        "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone".

        99% of us are guilty. Who chooses the one that will be stoned?
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        Raptor

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        Sometimes the irrelevant comments are just meant as a joke. Theres nothing wrong with that.

        "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone".

        99% of us are guilty. Who chooses the one that will be stoned?

        Just because everyone does it doesn't mean it can't be changed or people don't want it changed..

        As for the off-topic section; there seem to be a lot of Myspace type of people who fill out a profile and completely disappear... The profiling should be limited to.. Your profile!

        Quote
        ........ Who decides who truly needs help?

        Those with a good attention span who manage to fill out all the details and now waste our time asking the same over and over.

        Quote
        ........ Again everyone is differant ........ thats just the way it is as frustrating as it may be.

        Yes everyone is different but some people are a complete waste of time because they're either too lazy to communicate or have other disabilities that do not allow them to function the way is required on a forum to actually make sense to others.

        Quote
        I understand your frustration, however people arrive at Computer Hope usually because they have some sort of issue. These people may be from anywhere in the world and may not have a good understanding of the English language ........... Hows your Hindi , Cantonese or Polish.

        This doesn't make sense. What does filling out a hardware form and having to click through a spell-check before posting have to do with where you are from?

        You seem to forget that my native tongue isn't English either, yet I easily pass a spell-checker. Besides that, I never said people should pass, they should just be taken through one cycle to get 'm to pay attention and fix as many words as possible. Heck, they might even end up learning something from the process.

        For example; your constant habit to spell 'differant' would soon turn into 'different' as it'd be constantly marked out..

        Besides that; let it be very clear that I have nothing against people who are not native English speakers. Dl65 seems to want to make it look different but our ideas have never been to filter out bad English speakers; they have been there to filter out those without patience or no real need for help.

        (And those who deserve help are the ones who are willing to fill out an hardware forum and read through database articles before coming here, which is step 2 on the Computerhope website. The first step being DIY like everyone else had to unless they really can't find an answer.. People are too quick to waste our time. And if you don't think its wasting time, then gladly respond to EVERY post each day, Don, which I haven't seen you do for ages..  )

        Quote
           If memory serves me , it was the members who lobbied to get a off-topic section.

        Doesn't mean it's not a mess.

        Quote
        How are you defining progress........... Perhaps ask a few of the visitors and or members, who have come here looking for a solution to some issue and it has been resolved, what they think.

        Progress as in constantly having to repeat ourselves. You don't have to do that as you're very selective on where you post. Some of us try (or tried) to answer to everyone and most of the time we find us repeating ourselves 10x a day because people were too lazy to mention details or do a simple google search.

        Quote
        Ah ...... do we mean, 1 spelling error (a warning), 1 poorly worded sentance. (a warning), posting in the wrong place........  oops that 3 your banned.......... get a grip people.

        Get a grip? Why are you patronizing us like this? All you've done is offer answers that we'd already seen coming. Just because you like the forum the way it is doesn't mean it's not open for improvement or tighter regulation and it doesn't mean that we're suddenly anti-Polish people or whatever.


        unlovedwarrior



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          Discussed & compiled by me and CBMatt.. What are your thoughts?

          SUGGESTIONS:

          1. Hardware/software details have to be filled out when registering.  Omitting this data is not an option.  If a user is unsure of how to obtain said information, they may be directed towards a tool such as SIW or Everest.  If possible, a good method would be the ability to save information for multiple computers. Then, when somebody posts, they can choose which computer they're talking about. Much like the billing plans on a site such as Amazon.

          this one is not a bad idea and like stated somewhere it would be a good way for ppl to get to know they computers better
          2. A FORCED spellcheck before posting. (It doesn't have to come out clean, just force people to go through the words that the speller thinks are misspelled.)
          yes  we do need this, i for one really need it, yes i'm one of the Americans that have poor english

          3. The option to provide an area of specialization/skill/hobby and the possible existence of papers to prove this.  This information will be available in your profile to help everyone recognize your level of knowledge/understanding.
          ummmm. this should be optional just so we have a little more info, but should not be important

          4. A system where a poster's problem is ranked and the most skilled person is chosen for the job. One on one service; but other members can leave comments. (Comments should be smaller than forum posts and not in the actual topic, but rather on another page as can be found on Wikipedia.)
          I'm not a real big fan on this idea, because well the op would have to wait around for the asigned helper when other members could be tring to help out like asking the simple questions, the a more experienced helper can come in and clean up like how it is now


          5. Some sort of three-strikes system. If someone is unable to comply to the rules, they get one (maybe two) warnings. And if they continue to provide inadequate information or make incoherent posts, then they're automatically banned.
          this should be for spammers(which should be more strict) and the people who post random stuff in boards that are not in the off-topic board just to increase post count

          6. There should be some sort of time limit. If the OP doesn't respond within two days (or whatever specified amount of time would be appropriate), then they are notified and/or their post is deleted. It's tiresome seeing threads where people will post suggestions for a week but the OP is long gone. There should also be some sort of limit on new threads (perhaps a grace period) to help cut down on multiple postings.
          i dont know about deleted in such a short time maybe locked like what oddjob suggested, then after maybe a week  delete it, but who is going to be the one finding them and deleteing them??


          7. Postcounts should be hidden from the general public. Or at least only viewable in a user's profile. It seems like people tend to wear it as a badge, which causes some of the younger members (and older immature members) to post blindly in hopes of reaching some sort of status.
          those member should be warned that they are spaming just to get higher rank, which is pointless because well look at oddjob his be very helpful in the virus section but he has(had) a low postcount. so should he not be taken as seriously as someone with a way higher rank that just randomly posts in a section that they know nothing about?

          8. Perhaps users' posts could be categorized under the different computers on their profile. Instead of seeing all of their posts, we get a list of their computers on file, then choosing one will list the posts pertaining to that computer. Perhaps there could be several ways of filtering the posts. Such as seeing only that user's past software issues or hardware issues or whatever.
          i like this one, but can it be done


          M1CH431



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            I'd have to agree with the constant repeating. Some new posters wont bother using the simple search function to find an answer to their problem. Instead they make a whole new topic when the same problem might have been addressed two days ago.