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Author Topic: Does Anybody Care About Anything?  (Read 3167 times)

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Geek-9pm

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Does Anybody Care About Anything?
« on: January 14, 2009, 01:05:20 PM »
Does Anybody Care About Anything?

When warnings about present and future dangers are given,
it seems nobody cares and just go on with livin'.

Example:

Quote
...there is no user intervention that has to occur
before machines can be hacked.

This was buried in today's news. If I were to post this in the right place on this forum it would be ignored or somebody who say it is just not possible.

Yeah, being positive is OK. But to denial or ignore danger?

Anybody care?   >:(

BC_Programmer


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Re: Does Anybody Care About Anything?
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2009, 03:17:02 PM »
it's called sensationalism. It's not that nobody cares, it's that everybody knows otherwise.

The fact that you insist that every computer is susceptible to hacking from all angles isn't debated. What's debated is how it's any different then saying "YOU COULD GET STABBED ON YOUR WAY TO WORK!". It's possible, but the probability is so unlikely as to be null.


hackers don't actively scan IPs looking for vulnerabilities. and those that do are 2-bit command prompt script kiddies who could see a vulnerability in a open door.

And even those hackers that do actively scan IPs (not personally, but usually with the help of a program) won't get an ICMP response from any windows machine with a firewall enabled, (not even windows firewall). as such, to them, the machine is invisible.

The thing is, there aren't hackers looking to perform identity theft. It's because people gave them an open opportunity to do so, OR, because the person was the victim of a phishing scam that took their information.

first, you didn't even post the source of the information, nor did you provide any part of the story that jives with the headline. Are we supposed to blindly believe everything in a newspaper even without the actual article? They may as well just publish the headlines, and we simply accept each one as fact. The thing is: the news is a product. a product they are trying to sell. publishing articles that go directly against what people think or believe is how they do that successfully, because people want to read it to see if perhaps they should change the way they do things. But half the time it isn't even factual information, it's confirmation bias at work, which I keep seeing over and over.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

soybean



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Re: Does Anybody Care About Anything?
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2009, 04:14:54 PM »
Quote
This was buried in today's news.
What publication?  ???

Geek-9pm

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Re: Does Anybody Care About Anything?
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2009, 05:52:29 PM »

Thank you for your well written response. BC. 

My concern is that people do not even look to see if the threat is real or not. Why is that?

It is hard for me to write. So I am going to give another partial quote for Network World that is along the same line
Quote
Eric Schultze, who served as a founding member of the Trustworthy Computing team at Microsoft and was a security director for the vendor, says the MS08-068 patch that Microsoft released as part of its monthly Patch Tuesday announcement closes a flaw he first tested at Microsoft in 2001.

“Back in 2001 there was an exploit tool released called SMBRelay and a gentleman by the name of Sir Dystic wrote it,” says Schultze, CTO for Shavlik Technologies. “I was at Microsoft and I tested it and said ‘holy crap, this works.’ I addressed it with Microsoft but they buried their head in the sand. But it looks like they may have finally fixed it.”

You can go to the Network World web site and find information about the last patch Microsoft put out.

http://www.networkworld.com/

What  Eric Schultze states is a serious matter.
Either he is just promoting his own company
  -- or  --
Microsoft has not shown much interest in security.

Thanks again for your reply. I would be happy if everyone would just read this and then make an informed decision about how they will surf the net.

BC_Programmer


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Re: Does Anybody Care About Anything?
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2009, 07:17:31 PM »
I'm not sure I found the exact article you speak of, Geek- I searched that site, and found "Internet Explorer Flaw bigger then expected"- not sure if that's what you mean, but it is recent.

EDIT: I think I found it-
"Microsoft patch tuesday has three on critical list"


the way I see it, although all the version from 5 through IE8 beta were affected, it hadn't been exploited in that time period, UNTIL microsoft released a patch for IE7 that documented the problem; then some adventurous fellow tried the same exploit in the older versions, and lo and behold it worked!



I stopped using Internet Explorer ages ago, but I used to defend it when I did use it for some reason, which is why I can understand some people reluctance to switch browsers. But IE has been subject to these types of flaws for ages, which is why I stopped using it.

I think we can all agree it would be best to have a completely bug-free and secure operating system and programs, but the reality is it's practically impossible to write bug-free software of  anything but the most trivial kind, and a lot of security vulnerabilities come from bugs in the software (although some are mere oversights)
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

Geek-9pm

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Re: Does Anybody Care About Anything?
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2009, 07:34:37 PM »
Quote
EDIT: I think I found it-
"Microsoft patch tuesday has three on critical list"

You found it! Notice that now the news about about Steve's Jobs health has become more important the the dubious patch the Microsoft released on Tuesday.

Well, I do hope he gets better.

Now that brings up a question.
Is using Apple OS 10 safer that using any version of Windows? 

Of course, maybe Windows has more than five times as many users.

BC_Programmer


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Re: Does Anybody Care About Anything?
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2009, 07:42:08 PM »
I'd say it's safer, but at the same time, one has to look at what's possible.

Since a lot of them run on Intel, they can run x86 assembly, which could open up some dual-platform abilities if there are any clever virus writers out there.

But as you said- most people use windows, which is why it is so strongly targeted. If everybody moved to OS10 because it was safer, it wouldn't be- all the virus writers/hackers would be looking at OSX for vulnerabilities, and they would likely find some, considering there would be so many people looking for them.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

Geek-9pm

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Re: Does Anybody Care About Anything?
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2009, 08:31:21 PM »
You logic is has a good foundation.

Now let me introduce another vector here.
The concept of expansion of a system

Take any system, MS, Apple or anything related to information security.
Now what happens if you increase the number of people using the system.
Do you have to modify the design of the system to maintain security?
Many would say no. If it is secure with a few, it will be secure with many.
True? False? Maybe? If no authoritative answer comes forth, is it a non-issue?

Because nobody answers a question,
that must make it OK!
Or
It is a danger until proven safe!

Is either based in sound logic?

What I don't know can not hurt me!
Would you agree?

scrolljoe



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    Re: Does Anybody Care About Anything?
    « Reply #8 on: January 14, 2009, 09:12:19 PM »

    I care about something ! I care that the world is not appalled by a much televised  holocaust perpetrated by the Israel's might on the Palestinian people.

    How could we as a 21st century people not be outraged by this pogrom .
    How could we not realize that for a people who quite rightly tell their sons
    and their sons' sons that they must never forget the 6000000 of the holocaust
    are today doing the same thing to another group of people.

    I am left to wonder :are all men born equal , or are some more equal than others?
    PEACE :(

    BC_Programmer


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    Re: Does Anybody Care About Anything?
    « Reply #9 on: January 14, 2009, 10:09:46 PM »

    Take any system, MS, Apple or anything related to information security.
    Now what happens if you increase the number of people using the system.
    Do you have to modify the design of the system to maintain security?
    Many would say no. If it is secure with a few, it will be secure with many.
    True? False? Maybe? If no authoritative answer comes forth, is it a non-issue?

    Well the way I think it works is, because more people are using it, there are that many more possibilities to find flaws in the way the OS works when there are more people using it.

    Mac OS, for example; indisputably has flaws that nobody knows about- going with your style of questions- if nobody knows about them, are they still flaws? The thing is- if nobody knows about them, they can't be fixed, and if MS (or Apple, or whomever) releases a patch to fix it, hackers/virus writers will dissect the patch to see what they are patching, so as to take advantage of unpatched systems.

    In some cases (very few) a malware author discovers the flaw before anybody else; and thus they can take advantage of it. Usually it takes some time for anybody else to even become aware of the flaw; people complain of slowness, AV companies get involved, etc. and finally Microsoft is informed. Contrary to common opinion, Microsoft is actually fairly quick to release patches once they know about them; but how many computers will be infected before the patch is released? Some might say it wouldn't really matter, since MS will usually include it in it's next "malicious software removal tool" to remove it. The concern being, of course- if the malware was designed to do so, it could harvest information from those machines it infected.


    This is one of the reasons I have a good hardware firewall am wary of what I download. Even with AV programs- you can only detect and remove what is already known (or slight mutations of what is known)- as such it's best to keep it off the computer in the first place.
    I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.