Windows 2000 NT Freezing....

[dahlarbear]

1.  Apparently when you want to make a bootable CD from an ISO image, the CD burner program must be told to treat it as an "image burn" not a "file burn", otherwise you're just saving another file to CD.  Lots of tutorials on web thru google, but this post thread gave me some quick insight:

    http://forums.majorgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=106429


2.  Test Memory Modules and Slots.  If you get memory errors during the test runs, record the locations.  Then run the memory test again.  If you don't get the same "bad" memory locations, the problem is probably outside of your memory module.  Start with just one memory module, the 512MB.  You might want to try it in different slots.  After you have completely tested it (possibly verify all three slots are working if motherboard allows it), pull it out, and test the new 1GB memory module.  Then if both modules test good, test them together to see if they're compatible with each other.  Put larger one in front of smaller one.  If that doesn't work put smaller one in front of larger one.

If you get the same bad memory locations each time, that module is probably bad or incompatible with your motherboard.


3.  If system doesn't stay up long enough to test, I would look elsewhere for the problem, but continue to use the memory test to verify future changes have resolved the problem.  If it's hanging on the memory test, your Windows operating system software and drivers were not the problem.  I'd look to heat, bad/loose connections, and bad hardware (I'm not sure about power).  You can either start with nothing and add on or start with everything and take off components.


4.  Since it usually boots up, I'd start with power supply, motherboard, CPU, one stick of memory (probably 512MB), video card, monitor, keyboard, mouse, and floppy drive.  There's also your BIOS configuration in CMOS.  If you can't run in a minimal configuration you might want to reset your BIOS to its factory default settings.

5.  Heat.  I believe there are heat sensors on your motherboard that you may be able to read during CMOS setup.  See what the temperature readings are.  Generally if you remove heat sink/fan from CPU you need to reapply a thermal compound/paste between the connecting surfaces to help draw heat off CPU.  Are all your fans supposed to be working?

6.  IDE Cable.  If you're using the newer PATA hard drives that operate at 66/100/133 (something?), you should have an 80-wire flat ribbon cable with a 40-pin connector.  At those higher throughput speeds the old 40-wire cable won't cut it (will cause problems).

7.  Hard Drive.  What shape is your hard drive in?  Most hard disk drive manufacturers have diagnostic programs on their web sites that you can download and run to check the integrity of the drive and its disk surfaces.

[TxOutlaw]

Thanks again for all the help. I will complete these steps later. Yes all fans do work with the exception of one case fan. One fan was locked up when I went searching for the problem initially.

I don't think its heat related, I can have the computer unplugged all night then turn it on and it can freeze instantly. I will read up on burining it as an image.

Thanks again!

[TxOutlaw]

OK, so I am still running memtest and its showing one read bar with 8 errors so far... says ecd917fe is bad, ecd907fe is good... Thats all its reading thus far...

I did move the 512K DDR around and it didn't change much.

Guess I will post more when the memtest is done...

Thanks again!

[TxOutlaw]

ok 48hours and still running... still showing the same thing with alot of errors... whats my next step???

Thanks!

[dahlarbear]

1.  Memtest86 v3.3 Documentation.  The best source for interpretating the test results is the "readme.txt" file for the test program.  I got it from the floppy diskette version of the download and ran it thru Microsoft Word to add explicit <CR><LF> to end of each line so it's readable by "notepad.exe".  Let me try to attach it to this post.  If it attaches successfully, read it; especially numbered paragraph 8.


2.  I wasn't expecting "alot" of errors.  Are these different memory locations or the same one (or few) repeatedly testing bad.  How many "different" memory locations are testing bad?

If you're getting errors you don't have to test for 48 hours.  Normally you test overnight only to ensure the memory is good (i.e. you're not getting "any" errors).  Hit the "Escape" key to terminate the test.

Record the "bad" memory locations and as much information about them as you can.  If you rerun the test and get the same "bad" memory locations, the module is probably bad.  If you get different "bad" memory locations then those locations are not necessarily bad (problem may originate elsewhere, e.g CPU, cache L1, cache L2, motherboard).


3.  If you've tested with 512 MB memory module and gotten errors, I'd reseat that memory card in the same slot and test again to see if it repeats with the same "bad" memory locations.

Then I'd remove it, plug in the 1 GB memory module in its slot, and test it.  If you get errors, record them and try to analyze what's happening using the "readme.txt" documentation for the test.  Repeat the test to see if you get same bad memory locations each time for 1 GB stick.

If either memory module tests clean, run the test overnight to make sure.  Then I'd run with that one to see if your system is now stable running Windows operating system.

Memory module replacement method works best if you're using known good compatible memory (and we're not).


4.  You know about the dangers of Electro Static Discharge (ESD) right?  There should have been some installation instructions with that new memory module you bought.


5.  When troubleshooting basic system failures you probably should be using the factory default settings.  You don't want to be overclocking anything.  Work within the normal settings.  So if you continue to have problems you'd want to check your motherboard and BIOS settings for everything.

[getting disk space - attachment deleted by admin]

[dahlarbear]

I only see the "attached" documentation for Memtest86 v3.3 in my previous post if I am logged in.  If you can't see it, TxOutlaw, when you are logged in (or otherwise) let me know and we'll have to make other arrangements.  The file size is approximately 36 KBytes, too large to include "inline" as single post (Forum has 10 KByte limit on posts). 

However, I will include numbered paragraph 8:

------------------------------------------------------------------

Trouble-shooting Memory Errors
================================
Please be aware that not all errors reported by Memtest86 are due to
bad memory. The test implicitly tests the CPU, L1 and L2 caches as well as
the motherboard.  It is impossible for the test to determine what causes
the failure to occur.  Most failures will be due to a problem with memory.
When it is not, the only option is to replace parts until the failure is
corrected. 

Once a memory error has been detected, determining the failing
module is not a clear cut procedure.  With the large number of motherboard
vendors and possible combinations of simm slots it would be difficult if
not impossible to assemble complete information about how a particular
error would map to a failing memory module.  However, there are steps
that may be taken to determine the failing module.  Here are three
techniques that you may wish to use:

1) Removing modules
This is simplest method for isolating a failing modules, but may only be
employed when one or more modules can be removed from the system.  By
selectively removing modules from the system and then running the test
you will be able to find the bad module(s).  Be sure to note exactly which
modules are in the system when the test passes and when the test fails.

2) Rotating modules
When none of the modules can be removed then you may wish to rotate modules
to find the failing one.  This technique can only be used if there are
three or more modules in the system.  Change the location of two modules
at a time.  For example put the module from slot 1 into slot 2 and put
the module from slot 2 in slot 1.  Run the test and if either the failing
bit or address changes then you know that the failing module is one of the
ones just moved. By using several combinations of module movement you
should be able to determine which module is failing.

3) Replacing modules
If you are unable to use either of the previous techniques then you are
left to selective replacement of modules to find the failure. 

4) Avoiding allocation
The printing mode for BadRAM patterns is intended to construct boot time
parameters for a Linux kernel that is compiled with BadRAM support. This
work-around makes it possible for Linux to reliably run on defective
RAM.  For more information on BadRAM support
for Linux, sail to

       http://home.zonnet.nl/vanrein/badram

Sometimes memory errors show up due to component incompatibility.  A memory
module may work fine in one system and not in another.  This is not
uncommon and is a source of confusion.  The components are not necessarily
bad but certain combinations may need to be avoided.

I am often asked about the reliability of errors reported by Mestest86.
In the vast majority of cases errors reported by the test are valid.
There are some systems that cause Memtest86 to be confused about the size of
memory and it will try to test non-existent memory.  This will cause a large
number of consecutive addresses to be reported as bad and generally there
will be many bits in error.  If you have a relatively small number of
failing addresses and only one or two bits in error you can be certain
that the errors are valid.  Also intermittent errors are always valid.

All valid memory errors should be corrected.  It is possible that a
particular error will never show up in normal operation. However, operating
with marginal memory is risky and can result in data loss and even
disk corruption.  You can be sure that Murphy will get you if you know
about a memory error and ignore it.

Memtest86 can not diagnose many types of PC failures.  For example a
faulty CPU that causes Windows to crash will most likely just cause
Memtest86 to crash in the same way.

[TxOutlaw]

Ive got the 1gig in now and so far no errors... The computer just freezes in windows quicker with the 1gig in. I am REALLY considering parting the computer out!!! lol

[TxOutlaw]

Test passed with a 1 gig in.....what should I run or do now?   

[TxOutlaw]

OK assuming I have the correct memory (1 gig tested fine) where should I look next? Should I run a boot disk? What will I do with that? I will leave the 512K mem out for now.

[dahlarbear]

1.  1 GB Memory Module.  If the test passed, sometime in the near future you should run it all night or longer to ensure it and the basic memory subsystem is solid.  You want to be sure the memory is "good" before you decide to keep it.  Having said that, you should run with the memory that is "good".

If the memory test doesn't freeze then I would look elsewhere for the problem:

    o  Hardware (devices, cables, connections)
    o  Software (application, operating system, device drivers)
    o  Motherboard and/or BIOS configuration


2.  Let's start with the software.  Start by minimizing your Windows environment.  Safe Mode loads a minimal set of basic device drivers to allow you to troubleshoot and fix your system.  If your system freezes running this minimal set of drivers, then it's not your third party drivers.

Boot your system into "Safe Mode" (the regular one, not with networking or comand prompt only).  Let it set for awhile.  If no freeze, then exercise the operating system and some of its utilities.  Still no freeze, exercise your security software ensuring only one is active at a time.  If system freezes, try to identify what you were doing and what software was active at the time of the freeze.  Still no freeze, then add your second security product concurrent with first.  Still no freeze, then add your third security product if you normally run them all concurrently.

You may want to disconnect from internet before testing in Safe Mode because your security software will not automatially start in this mode (although I guess if you're not running Safe Mode with Networking it wouldn't matter).

3.  Potential Software Issue (don't address these yet - background info only):
     a.  Application.  One or more of it's files may be corrupt.  Uninstall, reboot, and re-install the application (possibly download new installation file).  It may also be incompatible with other software.  This is relatively common for security software that operate at low levels within the system.

     b.  Operating System.  One or more of your operating systems files may be corrupt.

     c.  File System.  May want to check the integrity of the file system and possibly the surface of the disk.

     d.  Device Drivers.  One or more of your device drives may be corrupt, bad, or incompatible with your system.

[patio]

If the 1G stick checked out OK then just re-boot to Windows ...run the machine thru it's paces and see if the freezing is gone.
If so you have found the culprit...

[TxOutlaw]

Finally gave up and took it in... They called and basically said the motherboard was shot... I couldnt find another Abit SR7 - 8X so I guess im computer shoppin... Im not sure weather to buy another tower or to get a laptop. I use my cpu for work email, maps and microsoft office things... Any suggestions for me under 1000.00???

Thanks

[dahlarbear]

Finally gave up and took it in... They called and basically said the motherboard was shot... I couldnt find another Abit SR7 - 8X so I guess im computer shoppin... Im not sure weather to buy another tower or to get a laptop. I use my cpu for work email, maps and microsoft office things... Any suggestions for me under 1000.00???

Thanks

1.  I cannot advise on a computer purchase as I don't follow the market that closely.  I have strong bias toward desktops as I believe maintenance/repair is cheaper and easier.

2. Motherboard Shot.  Anything's possible.  How did they determine the motherboard is shot?  Who determined it was shot?  Geek Squad?

3.  Does your system freeze when you're running MemTest86 v3.3 against a single 1 GB module?  MemTest86 is designed to run forever until you terminate with "Escape" key.

Test passed with a 1 gig in.....what should I run or do now?  

So the 1 GB tests OK with "no errors".  How many "passes" did the test complete and/or how long did you run the test? (I'm trying to get some data on the stability of your system.  Test passed because... no errors were reported; it ran for several hours and complete passes; and you manually terminated test with "Escape" key; it did not terminate via freeze.)

4.  Hard Drive.  What shape is your hard drive in?  Most hard disk drive manufacturers have diagnostic programs on their web sites that you can download and run to check the integrity of the drive and its disk surfaces.

5.  IDE Cable.  If you're using the newer PATA hard drives that operate at 66/100/133 (something?), you should have an 80-wire flat ribbon cable with a 40-pin connector.  At those higher throughput speeds the old 40-wire cable won't cut it (will cause problems).

6.  Does your system freeze when you boot and run it in Windows "Safe Mode"?

Safe Mode loads a minimal set of basic device drivers to allow you to troubleshoot and fix your system.  If your system freezes running this minimal set of drivers, then it's not your third party drivers.

Boot your system into "Safe Mode" (the regular one, not with networking or comand prompt only).  Let it set for awhile.  If no freeze, then exercise the operating system and some of its utilities.  Still no freeze, exercise your security software ensuring only one is active at a time.  If system freezes, try to identify what you were doing and what software was active at the time of the freeze.  Still no freeze, then add your second security product concurrent with first.  Still no freeze, then add your third security product if you normally run them all concurrently.

You may want to disconnect from internet before testing in Safe Mode because your security software will not automatially start in this mode (although I guess if you're not running Safe Mode with Networking it wouldn't matter).

7.  I can't tell you it's not the motherboard, but there are other things that may cause a freeze.