A CH Social Chatroom

[Zylstra]

ComputerRuler just reminded me of an idea I had a while back, a social chatroom for ComputerHope users.

We are thinking about adding a live chat to ComputerHope. This is just an idea right now, but, with everyone's help, it can be much more.

The idea seems to be fine with Nathan, and I was given the okay to post a topic collecting user feedback to find out how many people would actually be interested.
So, the questions:
What do you think? Would you use it if it existed?
(Please vote in the poll as well)

Tell us what the cons that you see are, and the pros.

I was discussing with Calum about it, and we determined that some sort of IRC network would probably be best. A web interface for IRC can be included as well.
We could use a larger network, such as Blitzed.org or Freenode.net, or if we have a few members who know how, we could construct an IRC network out of a few makeshift servers (mine is capable, but I wouldn't want just one server running alone. I think at least three would be necessary)

Since this is about development of the ComputerHope community, I think it can be outside of the "Off Topic" section.

[kpac]

I would definitely use it.

Look at this:

http://www.saviourpc.com/forums/index.php?action=chat

Actually... Never mind. You have to be registered to use it.

[Zylstra]

I know SMF has the ability to have a built in PJIRC like chat client, which automatically logs you on with your nickname being your forum username. I think that would work extremely well, but it would require attempting to add a package to the forums. Since ComputerHope forums are so big, some packages dont work properly, especially since a board converter was used. Board converters have a habit of causing problems.

Still, this could be a very probable option if Nathan would be willing to try such a package when he is able to test it.

[evilfantasy]

How about trying out a shoutbox?

[kpac]

The chat on the link I gave you mightn't be powerful enough if there are a couple hundred users on it.

You would need mutiple rooms in the chat, and a moderator in each room. That raises another issue: If the moderators are monitoring the chat, you would need to hire extra moderators for the forum.

There will be quite a few things like that coming up, in my opinion, and you will have to come up with something else to counteract them.

Good luck, I say.

[Zylstra]

I think one room would be fine. I dont see need to have various rooms unless people want to discuss different topics, its moreover a general chat.

As for Moderators (called "Ops" or "Operators" in IRC) I dont think we need to worry about that unless it becomes an issue.
Chances are, a bot will be put in place with a few presets such as, kick on flooding or excessive language.

How about trying out a shoutbox?

Shoutbox is moreover a Comment system, and isnt exactly live chat.

You might be wondering why we are steering towards IRC:
One major reason is that people can use their own clients, and therefor, it can be run in a separate program, or in a web interface.
The only problem with IRC, specifically if you are using an advanced client, is that quite a bit of it is command line based. However, if a modification were to be installed for the forum, then the forum would greatly assist with the login process.

Most services like Blitzed.org and Freenode have an excellent uptime, and are fairly simple to operate. It would be more complicated for a few CH Members to make our own IRC network to host the CH Chat off of, but, it could be worthwhile. We are still looking into this as a possible option (however, it wouldent be hosted on ComputerHope's servers, since most web server hosts do not allow IRC Servers to be run due to resource restrictions. Basically: We need an expert before we can consider using our own servers.)

[kpac]

I think one room would be fine. I dont see need to have various rooms unless people want to discuss different topics, its moreover a general chat.

I said you might need multiple rooms, because if you have, say, 200 people chatting at the one time.... You won't be able to read what people are saying because it will be scrolling so fast...

The only problem with IRC, specifically if you are using an advanced client, is that quite a bit of it is command line based.

One more problem with IRC, well actually two, but basically the same: malware, and hacking.

[Zylstra]

I see what you meant by "Multiple Rooms", and I think I can agree, but, I dont think that we will have too many users online at once, specifically since we wont offer support at this chatroom.

Malware is only a problem if you accept DCC file requests... I think that can be disabled, but, we will see...

As for Hacking, thats usually an issue related to phishing, eg: trying to get people to reveal their information
Perhaps you can include more insight on these matters to help us determine? Is it moreover a matter of people who dont have a FireWall (in that event, listing your IP publicly is just a bad idea) and that have certain ports wide open.

I noticed someone voted that they would not use it. Could you tell us why? (Eg: Just, your not a chat fan, etc?)

[!~*:.Pink Floyd.:*~!]

I would use it..

[computeruler]

the newegg eggxpert has one and i always use it but on saviour pc im always the only one in that chat lolol i like chats

[stevejohnson1958]

Personally...

If you're looking for a low-cost program, FlashChat should be something you may want to look at.

True...there are times when there is no one in chat at Saviour PC, however...we don't have thousands of members, either.

Integration into SMF is relatively easy...with the option for AI (bots)...if you choose.

It would be better if the rooms were moderated by actual people...since I haven't met a bot, yet, I couldn't recognize.

This system is also a good one to be able to create multiple and private rooms...so, it would come in handy if someone wanted to have a private conversation...or just wanted one-on-one support.

I see you have CraftySyntax installed.  I did, too, at one time.  However, it's not all it's cracked up to be.

Definitely look into FlashChat...I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

[computeruler]

can i become a mod to help moderate the chat if you use real people cause it was my idea???

[!~*:.Pink Floyd.:*~!]

could I help manage? Pllleeeaasee?

[computeruler]

i asked 1st

[Zylstra]

can i become a mod to help moderate the chat if you use real people cause it was my idea???

Thats a discussion that will have to be taken up with the moderation committee. Chances are, its mainly going to be moderators that have operation abilities.
It could include a wider spectrum of members since there will be less operators on the chat than the forums, but who knows.

Steve, the chat you are talking about seems based moreso towards support. Were just looking for a community chat, how would a flash application like that work for a social chat?
IRC has the ability to have one-on-one chats quite easily, as well as the ability to create your own channels if you wanted to. Theres a variety of things to be considered, thats for sure.

[CBMatt]

I'm pretty much against chats.  I've always seen it as a bad atmosphere; they tend to bring out a certain attitude and flame wars are often in abundance.  And if we wanted the chat to follow as closely to the forum rules as possible, we would need moderators available at peaks times (everyone and their grandma knows how to get around bots), which isn't really ideal.  And if it's going to use the existing mods, you can count me out.  Heh.

The chat on Saviour PC has a great interface and I have had to use it a few times for certain discussions.  If you're going to have a chat feature, that's probably one of the best ones to use.  But I'm still quite anti-chat.

If you think it would benefit the forum, then go for it, but I really don't see the need for it.  Personally, I think it further promotes the idea of this being a social forum, which brings in a lot of useless members who don't contribute.  And even worse, some of these members try to contribute when they are completely incapable of doing so.  This sort of nonsense has increased significantly since the induction of the Off Topic forum and I think it would continue to increase with the addition of a chat.

[Zylstra]

Chris, I think that you have a point about non-contributing members.
Do you think problems would occur with posts outside the Off Topic board? Or do you think it would just encourage more off topic activity?

I went to check out Steve's chatroom, he invited me to go see it, and he showed me some of the features.
I showed him a chat that handles IRC, which in some ways was similar to the Flash chat he had. There were some things I did not like about SaviourPC Chat Room:
* It is flash, and that can mean resources. Also, not all users use flash, some people choose to disable it.
* The interface was a little iffy... I clicked something and suddenly all the windows separated and started covering up half the chat, I did eventually get it back. The interface nearly went beyond my screen, and I cant imaging what it would be like on an 800x600 screen, but, then again, it might re-adjust itself too.
* I thought that figuring out how to enter and exit rooms, and private chats was difficult to some extent, but, after a while, I did get the hang of it.

Pros of his chat that I saw were:
* It had a very IRC like interface, in fact, I had to test it to see if maybe it was actually IRC (which it was not).
* For the most part, if you are just chatting in one place, its relatively easy to use.

I'd like it if everyone could visit this address:
http://chat.tufat.com/flashchat5/stateless/
Just enter a random username, no password, and click the Login button. Take a look around, try some things out.

After that, visit www.computerhope.com/zero/
Click the "Your name or alias" box, and enter something random, and press "Enter" (feel free to talk to Zer0, he's a public bot, but please don't abuse him or swear)
I personally like this chat interface, since its CGI so you dont need any extra "addons" or "ActiveX" programs, and it is very simple. Also, since its IRC, you can download any client you choose, and use it to connect to the chat.

Another great client that is web based is PJIRC.
See it here:
http://www.pjirc.com/demo.php
You can check out the different versions of PJIRC, on ComputerHope, it would be possible to have a selection of clients that you could use. Personally, I think that PJIRC is one of the best clients, its very easy to use, and supports right click on usernames, and is also a clean interface.


Mibbit is a more aestetically appealing web based IRC program, check it out here:
http://embed.mibbit.com/?server=irc.blitzed.org&channel=%23zero&noServerNotices=true&noServerMotd=true&forcePrompt=true


What do I mean by "You can install your own client"?
IRC is a protocol like HTML in a way. Its like how you can have more than one browser to use the Internet, which way do you like it? FireFox or Internet Explorer?
There just happens to be a FireFox IRC Chat addon called "ChatZilla" which is a great IRC client.

I feel like I am having an allergic reaction to something.

[CBMatt]

Hmm, I've never experienced any problems with the FlashChat, but I have also only used it a few times.  You have some valid concerns, so perhaps it's not the best for what you want.  I do still think it's quite handy, though.

Chris, I think that you have a point about non-contributing members.
Do you think problems would occur with posts outside the Off Topic board? Or do you think it would just encourage more off topic activity?

It would most definitely encourage more Off Topic activity, I have no doubt about that.  And that's just fine.  Although I do not really like the Off Topic section much, I understand why Nathan wants it available to us.  However, having these social outlets seems to promote off-topic conversation and maybe it's just me, but it seems like these conversations and obscure references leak out into the other sections more and more.

And it has become a spawning ground for certain members (I won't name anyone) who think that just because they've been accepted in the forum games, it gives them some sort of power on the forums.  One user in particular (still not naming anyone) has at least 2000 or so posts and has contributed nothing.  But because of his high post count, he seems to think he's capable of helping out users in need when he shows little or no knowledge in computers and can barely put a sentence together.  I have yet to read one post by this member that made any sense, and all he does is confuse the people who are coming here for help.

I'm seeing more and more members like this each week.  They have just as much right to be here as we do, but they have the wrong idea about this forum and how it works.  We're not all experts and it's understandable for someone to have a lot to learn.  But it's not understandable for them to continually try to help with issues when they still don't know anything about it!  I know very little about Apple and Linux, so I rarely try to help in those sections because I know it should be left to someone with actual experience.


Anyway...sorry, that's the end of my rant.  I got a little off-track there, but it is a strong concern of mine.  We were hoping that the Off Topic forum would greatly reduce the amount of off-topic conversation in the help forums, but I honestly don't feel that it worked out that way.  I feel like it has created a certain mentality among some users, and I worry that it may be worsened by a chat.  But hey, it could just be me.  I'm not going to boycott or go on a hunger strike (yeah right!) if a chat room is added, but I was asked about my concerns and this is what they are.  And yes, I know I'm just a crotchety prude.

[Carbon Dudeoxide]

I haven't read all the other posts in this topic, only part of CBMatt's last post (i'm busy now, not at home) but I think maybe users with over like 300-600 should have access to chat, maybe one for 1000+ too, I don't know. Just an Idea.

[CBMatt]

Well, I don't think that will change anything in regards to my concerns, but it may be a good idea to have some sort of restriction like that.  I have no idea how easy/hard it is, but I do believe it can be done.

[Zylstra]

Well, I don't think that will change anything in regards to my concerns, but it may be a good idea to have some sort of restriction like that.  I have no idea how easy/hard it is, but I do believe it can be done.

I would guess that if we went of a PJIRC client built into ComputerHope, it would be possible, but, anyone who had the link could join.

I dont think it would be a very good thing to just restrict people, we do have a lot of contributors who will ask a question, and then validly answer quite a few more questions to even it out. If its someone causing problems, it is possible to just switch, in your mind, to a "read only" mode on them.
But, I do see what you (Chris and Carbon) mean.

[kpac]

Zylstra: You asked to give you info on what I said about the IRC chatrooms being exposible to hacking and malware... Try these links:

http://software.silicon.com/security/0,39024655,39116592,00.htm
http://www.builderau.com.au/news/soa/Pillow-talking-bots....
http://www.hackinthebox.org/modules.php?op=modload....

You might find some info in there....

That public bot is very smart, by the way...

[Carbon Dudeoxide]

Back at home now, but one thing I want to mention before reading this loooing topic, we should have a Mini-Bar, if you know what I mean 

[Carbon Dudeoxide]

Ok. I've read it.

I don't think we need multiple chatrooms as Zylstra said, it's just general chat.

I said you might need multiple rooms, because if you have, say, 200 people chatting at the one time.... You won't be able to read what people are saying because it will be scrolling so fast...

Here is an idea, what about we have say thee chatrooms. If one chatroom starts to fill up to about 70%, the second chatroom opens and there will be a notification in the current chatroom saying it has been opened.
If the activity in the chatrooms fall below 30%, they could be merged into one chatroom.



As for my idea as restrictions, it will also help to prevent Spamming and abuse.
For example, someone could register into the forums and creating havoc on the system.

I like that thing someone brought up about a month ago with the new SMF Style or something, where Mods can mute a user.
I forgot the details.



About IRC's.....I know my Nintendo DS has a Homebrew app to get on IRC's.

[JohnK]

For those of you concerned about hacking on IRC, that's not a problem.
If the IRC server you connect to is running Unreal (like mine does), then your hostname is cloaked, so instead of this:
66-191-101-87.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com
you see this:
rnd-B9B3226A.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com
The only way someone could possibly get ahold of your IP is if you accepted a DCC. And that's not a good idea unless you trust the person.
So don't worry about hacking.
And yes, i would most definitely use one if we had one!
Oh, and Zylstra wanted me to mention that I run an IRC network.

[kpac]

For those of you concerned about hacking on IRC, that's not a problem.

Are sure about this? I disagree. I found a website that shows you how to do it, but I'm not posting it.

[JohnK]

For those of you concerned about hacking on IRC, that's not a problem.

Are sure about this? I disagree. I found a website that shows you how to do it, but I'm not posting it.

It's possible. but what are the odds of it happening? I've been using IRC for 3 years now, and I've never once run into anything like that.

[Zylstra]

For some reason, I feel slightly overwhelmed all the sudden (not by this post, but from everything around me) So bare with me as I ramble on and on about things that dont make a lick of sense.

Being how IRC works, its easy to create another chatroom.
I really dont think that it would be necessary, but, it still could be done. Since we wont be accepting support in this chatroom, I doubt that we will have problems with overloads of users.

Well, we have 6 people that would say they would use it. If you know anyone on ComputerHope who has not seen this topic, go ahead and feel free to give them a link and ask them to vote.

What this website suggests:
http://www.builderau.com.au/news/soa/Pillow-talking-bots-latest-Russian-malware-threat/0,339028227,339284439,00.htm
Is that the bot convinced people to give out their information. Its like those stupid spam emails you get, with the hot guy there asking you for your home address, phone, and name.
Do you reply to those emails? Of course not! The same thing could happen via. PM on CH Forums. You just have to ignore it.

All methods of stealing information over IRC is capibile of happening via Email, other web chats, and messenger. Its always a matter of: "Do I really tell them? Or not?"

[JohnK]

EXACTLY! Thank you, Zylstra.
Really, any hacking that could go on on IRC requires user intervention.
Or, using an older IRCd that doesn't cloak hostnames.

[kpac]

User intervention maybe, but they mightn't know it's going on....

Look at what some viruses can do:
http://www.threatexpert.com/report.aspx?uid=ecb1f877-d43c-4ee9-8c57-e8baacf1fafa
http://www.threatexpert.com/report.aspx?uid=ad2fcf72-2bf3-480b-afc0-9bfe1d9c9711
http://www.threatexpert.com/report.aspx?uid=57ba898d-e16c-49e6-8d89-476a2db8d863
http://www.threatexpert.com/report.aspx?uid=c65ee866-5b26-4a10-b5e2-d1469c96e565

[JohnK]

Isn't it common sense NOT to accept files from someone you don't know?
Edit: I've been using IRC since i was thirteen years old.
I've been in some very busy channels.
I haven't heard of a single person I know getting any kind of virus from it.

[Zylstra]

User intervention maybe, but they mightn't know it's going on....

Look at what some viruses can do:
http://www.threatexpert.com/report.aspx?uid=ecb1f877-d43c-4ee9-8c57-e8baacf1fafa
http://www.threatexpert.com/report.aspx?uid=ad2fcf72-2bf3-480b-afc0-9bfe1d9c9711
http://www.threatexpert.com/report.aspx?uid=57ba898d-e16c-49e6-8d89-476a2db8d863
http://www.threatexpert.com/report.aspx?uid=c65ee866-5b26-4a10-b5e2-d1469c96e565

The point still remains: In order to get infected over IRC, you have to purposely accept a file from a person over IRC via DCC  (which, you can disable in your client if you want. I dont think any of the web interfaces are capable of sending IRC DCC, which is primarily what CH would be using if we went IRC)
If you dont know the person you are talking to, or dont know them very well, its the same as downloading a file they send you in an email or over messenger. Do you think it could be something bad, do you think they might do something like that? Then dont accept it.

[JohnK]

Exactly. The point I'm trying to make is, IRC is no more inheriently dangerous than MSN messenger or AIM.

[stevejohnson1958]

Personally...I think the thread has gone a little "off topic"...since the OP's original post was directed at whether anyone would use it or not.

I know he also wanted reasons, but I feel hacking or malware shouldn't be a reason.  Heck...do you know how many times your PC is attacked from the moment you turn it on?

Me...I'd use it...though it may be infrequent.  I also feel it would be a great addition to Computer Hope...hopefully keeping the "crap"  off the forum boards and out of sight...where it should be.

I've seen way too many threads go way off topic...and feel if a person needs to have a personal conversation with a buddy they met at CH...there are other ways to chat other than deface the forums with nonsense.

So whatever you guys decide to do...I'm behind you 100%.


Keep us posted, Zylstra!

[CBMatt]

I've been using IRC for 3 years now, and I've never once run into anything like that.

But have you been using it on a popular site like Computer Hope that has thousands of members?

Isn't it common sense NOT to accept files from someone you don't know?

Take a look at the Off Topic forum and some of newer and/or technically unsavvy members...  I don't know about you, but I severely doubt the common sense of many of these people, especially when it comes to computers.



I'm not trying to feed into the argument or anything, but security issues are a valid concern, especially on a popular site like this.  Many people are familiar with us and we do make enemies now and then.  I'm certainly not saying that any of these things will happen, but they certainly could, and IRC does make it a bit easier.  It shouldn't stop the development of a chatroom (if it's decided that there should be one), but I think proper precautions need to be taken.

[Zylstra]

I think we will take the development of this idea in steps.
This topic is in fact for developing interest, "Would people use it if it were made?"

Chris, most of the people who might not understand the concept of accepting files over IRC will be using the web client, and not their own client. The web clients do not accept DCC file transfer, as well as many other features possible/available over IRC. Advanced features would be available to advanced users who understand how to install/work an advanced IRC client.

ComputerHope has in the past had an IRC network for support, and we never had problems with it. The chances of someone sending a virus over IRC are about the same as someone uploading one to ComputerHope in a ZIP file and saying its a log of some sort. (We once had a scare like that...  but the good point is that its only happened once.)

I think its fine that users ask questions about security, but, I can personally say:
I have been using IRC for a very long time, as well as JohnK, and millions of other people. IRC is very secure. In order to get a virus via IRC, you need to purposely download a file. In order to have your identify stolen, you have to purposely give out information. I think it will be important that we include an information alert when a user joins remind them to never download files from people who they do not trust, and to avoid giving out your personal information (including over personal chats) over the public internet, and also to REPORT users who do this.

But, for now, lets just get down to: Would you use it?
And security concerns can be discussed later when we come up with how this whole thing is going to work.

[kpac]

Isn't it common sense NOT to accept files from someone you don't know?
Edit: I've been using IRC since i was thirteen years old.
I've been in some very busy channels.
I haven't heard of a single person I know getting any kind of virus from it.

Sorry... We have a misunderstanding.

I don't mean getting the virus over IRC.... Did you look at the virus reports? They create bots on an IRC channel, which in turn try to dismantle the moderator bots.... Who knows what they could do after that is done?

[!~*:.Pink Floyd.:*~!]

I dont think there will be many people in it I mean come on

Theres only about 20-30 of us that are active and keep in touch socially between each other.

[Carbon Dudeoxide]

That's enough. I know I will use it when I'm bored.

[JohnK]

Isn't it common sense NOT to accept files from someone you don't know?
Edit: I've been using IRC since i was thirteen years old.
I've been in some very busy channels.
I haven't heard of a single person I know getting any kind of virus from it.

Sorry... We have a misunderstanding.

I don't mean getting the virus over IRC.... Did you look at the virus reports? They create bots on an IRC channel, which in turn try to dismantle the moderator bots.... Who knows what they could do after that is done?

You're missing my point. I've been using it for three years. I've been in channels with literally thousands of people. So many users that they had to overflow to a backup channel. I've never, in my entire life, seen anything like that. It exists, but what are the odds of it happening? I'll answer my own question. Slim to none. I know people who have been using IRC for over ten years. Have they seen anything like that either? No.
And IRC networks are run by people. If there's a problem, you find an IRCop, and you get them to deal with it.
I've been running a small personal network for over a year and a half. Trust me. I know my stuff.

Also, to quote zylstra,

ComputerHope has in the past had an IRC network for support, and we never had problems with it. The chances of someone sending a virus over IRC are about the same as someone uploading one to ComputerHope in a ZIP file and saying its a log of some sort. (We once had a scare like that...  but the good point is that its only happened once.)

-John

[!~*:.Pink Floyd.:*~!]

Agreed^

Lets just get something set up and in the mean time relax.

[Carbon Dudeoxide]

Yeah, ComputerHope Chat Beta.

If it doesn't work, we can take it down.

To quote my Geography teacher:
If someone doesn't make a move, change will never happen.

[!~*:.Pink Floyd.:*~!]

Yeah, ComputerHope Chat Beta.

If it doesn't work, we can take it down.

To quote my Geography teacher:
If someone doesn't make a move, change will never happen.

Dont you mean alpha?

lulz anyways. Freewebs has something like a chatroom I was browsing through google today.

[kpac]

Okay, JohnK.....

Well don't say I didn't warn you.... Just incase anything happens...

[JohnK]

Okay, JohnK.....

Well don't say I didn't warn you.... Just incase anything happens...

What about IRC is so scary for you?
Seriously?
Have you even really ever used it or are you just petrified of the unknown?
I'm going to repeat this one more time. I've been using it for THREE years. And i have NEVER seen or even heard of anything like that. So go ahead, be blindly afraid of something, don't listen to what I have to say.

[!~*:.Pink Floyd.:*~!]

I used to listen to Wcradio And they had a IRC chat channle for each show on there and like JohnK there were no problems with it.

[Rawkfist85]

Okay, JohnK.....

Well don't say I didn't warn you.... Just incase anything happens...

*Thinks kpac is an idiot*

[stevejohnson1958]

Okay, JohnK.....

Well don't say I didn't warn you.... Just incase anything happens...

*Thinks kpac is an idiot*

Rawkfist85...

Since this was your first post...do you believe your comment contributed to the theme of this thread?

I think not...

[Rawkfist85]

Okay, JohnK.....

Well don't say I didn't warn you.... Just incase anything happens...

*Thinks kpac is an idiot*

Rawkfist85...

Since this was your first post...do you believe your comment contributed to the theme of this thread?

I think not...

Actually, I have read the thread, and in kpac's opinion that IRC would be a bad idea and his reasoning for it, I feel that he/she/it is an idiot. It did pertain to the subject. However, your response did in no way pertain to the subject at hand. You could have private messaged me. One should look at the plank in his own eye before looking at the spec in another's.

I think an IRC room would be a great idea for this site. I'm sure other's would enjoy it as well.

[CBMatt]

*doesn't see Rawkfist85 staying very long*

[!~*:.Pink Floyd.:*~!]

What did Kpac do anyways He's just Giving his thoughts on the topic.

[street1 (RIP)]

Nods affirmative and agrees with Chris....Rawkfist85 short life at CH.

[computeruler]

thats for shure we dont need any mean people on this site but ya just put a chat up and see how it goes and continuasly improve it

[Zylstra]

Anyways... moving past all this sudden drama...

I might start compiling a draft of a ComputerHope Chatroom.

I think that, because Nathan knows how to use IRC quite well, and since there are so many clients available for IRC, it might be best to go IRC. There are also many networks to go by. I think that we can figure out networks a bit later, right now, I am thinking of three, if you have cons/pros to these specific networks, please feel free to comment:

randomnet.org (Which, would be a good option since JohnK partially owns the network, meaning that we could get quick support in the event that things go awry. Unfortunately, Randomnet had a bit of a meltdown, and is still being repaired. )

freenode.net (Freenode, as many of you may already know, is a very large network, used by thousands of people. This has its advantages, and disadvantages. There are many computers supporting the network, but, it could take longer to fix channel issues.)

blitzed.org (Blitzed.org is a network that ComputerHope has used successful in the past. Its well supported, though not as large as Freenode. Its a much smaller network, so channel specific issues can be fixed quickly)

One thing to keep in mind: Its easy to switch networks, so it wouldent really be a problem if one went down, or if we decided to switch for some reason.

[rajhh]

hello
hw r u

[recovering disk space -- attachment deleted by admin]

[Carbon Dudeoxide]

hello
hw r u

We're very good, thank you. 

[street1 (RIP)]

hello
hw r u

We're very good, thank you. 

and U.Is all good L8ly? LOL

[!~*:.Pink Floyd.:*~!]

hello
hw r u

I bet you 100% thats Rawkfist

So zylstra we getting anywere today?

[Zylstra]

hello
hw r u

I bet you 100% thats Rawkfist

So zylstra we getting anywere today?

Well, we have 11 users who say that they would use it.

I think thats good enough, since most of us are in the US (we will get more users later, I guarantee) we will all be online at around the same time (subtract timezones...)

[stevejohnson1958]

LOL!  So, .0004% of the registered members on this site would use it?

I would've just implemented it without asking...just to see how many would actually have found it and put it to use.

[!~*:.Pink Floyd.:*~!]

LOL!  So, .0004% of the registered members on this site would use it?

I would've just implemented it without asking...just to see how many would actually have found it and put it to use.

Its more for before who talk to the other members alot like through PM.

[Zylstra]

LOL!  So, .0004% of the registered members on this site would use it?

I would've just implemented it without asking...just to see how many would actually have found it and put it to use.

Haha, sneak attacks, I see how your forum works...

I think it will catch on quite fast... but the one thing that worries me is that new members will see the chat and think "Oh! Live support chat" not "Oh... socialization, something that its already obvious I dont do often."
Which, makes me wonder if its possible to have a post count based group so that members with, say, under 10 posts can not see the chat.

If its needed, I'm sure it can be done.

[stevejohnson1958]

I suppose the admin settings can be configured to allow use only to certain membergroups...or even have a post count limit set before use.

Here's a question...

What would happen to CraftySyntax which is currently being used for support purposes?

With the advent of the social chat you plan on implementing...wouldn't it be redundant to have such a package.  I mean...if the ability to create a private room is available with the IRC program...CraftySyntax will be redundant.  Unless someone is monitoring the stats.


Here's another question...

Does LiveHelp get used that often?  Most of the time when I visit it...and I'm on the computer 18 hours a day...there's no one ever logged in...at least there's no support.  I was just wondering.

[Zylstra]

CraftySyntax is just for support, not social chat. The chatroom we are talking about developing is mainly for social chat, not support.

The question about CraftySyntax isnt "Do people use it?" its "Do people operate it?"
We seldom have people operating. The most common operator, last time I checked (a few months ago) is Nathan.
I dont think CraftySyntax has been updated recently either.

We used to have Live Help on an IRC network, we stopped this for two reasons:
1, the web application we were using to connect to IRC for clients wasnt working right, and we couldent figure out why.
2, when we had many users (usually around 12AM PST GMT -8:00) it got overly complicated, and we didnt have enough operators at that time.

[Calum]

I used to operate the support chat from time to time, but other than last month, I haven't been on it at all in a long while.
People do want to use it, we just lack operators for it.

[kpac]

*Thinks kpac is an idiot*

Rawkfist85...

Since this was your first post...do you believe your comment contributed to the theme of this thread?

I think not...

Yes... Even if you do "think" I'm an idiot, you can't just barge into the forum and say it. Have a bit of respect for other people's opinions and thoughts. Thanks Pink Floyd.

Now back to the topic....

[Zylstra]

So far it looks like this idea might take off.

I sent a rather extensive report to the Admin, who been busy recently, so that when he has time he can go through it and see what the pros/cons that I and the community (thats all of you) saw.

I did come up with an easy solution to preventing newbies from entering if we start getting a lot of users looking for support:
Create a new board, or new category with board requiring that you have a special post-count based permissions group. This way, only members with, say, 6 posts or more (this number can be easily changed) can only see the chatroom.
This might not ever be necessary... when users connect, it should be fairly easy to have a message such as: "[info] Welcome to ComputerHope Social Chat! Reminder: The Forum Rules still apply here, be respectful. Please do not ask for computer help here, this is a social chat"

[CBMatt]

Chat permissions should be fairly simple to set.  I'm sure most of you have seen the SMF Arcade?  It's in another section of the forum, and if you wish, you can set different permissions and requirements and whatnot.  I haven't actually played around with SMF yet, but I think you should be able to set up a chat in a very similar way.

[Zylstra]

SMF Arcade?

I dont believe that is a feature built into SMF, that is most likely an addon.

This wouldent integrate like an addon, which makes me question how easy it would be to set a button at the top of every forum page with "Social Chat" like the Search, Profile, and home buttons up there while implementing permissions. Theres always a creative way to go about it though.

[CBMatt]

SMF Arcade?

I dont believe that is a feature built into SMF, that is most likely an addon.

Correct, it is an add-on.

Like I said, I don't know a whole lot about SMF (I actually plan on installing it this weekend to go along with a game I've decided to start working on).  I just know that on Saviour PC, Steve has it set up so the Chat link is on every page (along with the Home, Profile, etc. links).  And although I don't know if he has any permissions set, but I'm sure it would be fairly easy to make it so only certain members are able to see/access the chat page.

Now, I don't know if you have to use a certain chat client for this (Steve might know), but I think it would be worth it to at least play around with a bit.  With a little bit of PHP and PERL knowledge, it shouldn't be hard to customize something like this.  Last I heard, Nathan was still learning PERL, but I believe he knows a fair amount of good ol' PHP.  I can't imagine it being too terribly difficult.


Even if this can't be done like an add-on, then perhaps simply setting up a link like you described wouldn't be so difficult.  Maybe it's just me, but this seems like it should be a relatively easy task.


Of course, this is all mere speculation on my part.  When I get a chance to try out SMF for myself, perhaps I'll see just how difficult everything is.

[Zylstra]

"Last I heard, Nathan was still learning PERL, but I believe he knows a fair amount of good ol' PHP."
Its the other way around 

Well, heres how it works:

Steve installed an addon that handles chat. Chances are, its possible to enter his chat without registering first, by having a link to a page that has the chat on it. Of course, if you put that page in your SMF directory, and build a PHP script, you could potentially apply a permission group to it.

The other thing about it is, what if someone wanted to invite someone else into the chat without having to register? Just sending them a link is the easiest way.
That, and if its IRC, anyone will be able to connect to it no matter what.

There is a PJIRC Addon for SMF, which could potentially be useful, but I think it would be best to just put a bunch of web-based IRC clients in one place, and let the user decide which one to use (as well as a link to an actual client, or two, for advanced users)

I will tell you this, Chris: SMF Is a blast to manage, its definitely got to be one of the better ones out there.

[CBMatt]

D'oh, I could've sworn he already knew PHP.

Anyway...like I've said, I'm against chats, but I certainly don't speak for everyone and I think a lot of our members would use it.  And really, the only way to truly find out if people will use it and if it will work properly is to actually test it out and see what happens.  You sound like you have a pretty good idea of what's going on (you certainly know more than me when it comes to forums), so I think this project is in good hands with you.  I'm sure you'll be able to figure out a way to make it work the way you would like.

And as for managing SMF...I've heard a lot of good things about it and I definitely prefer using SMF forums over other forums.  Now that I've got a domain/host/server, I've become a lot more interested in the different things you can do, especially since learning PHP/MySQL a few months ago.  And I've always been curious about the inner-workings of forums, so SMF seemed like the best place to start.  I plan on keeping my forum pretty simple, but I'm sure it won't be long before you see me begging for help on various add-ons and upgrades.  Heh.

[kpac]

Chances are, its possible to enter his chat without registering first, by having a link to a page that has the chat on it.

Nope.... You have to be logged in to view the chat:
http://www.saviourpc.com/forums/index.php?action=chat

It's very simple to change whether guests can view the chat. Just make a slight change to the "index.template.php" file.

[stevejohnson1958]

The chat I use was easy to integrate into SMF, as well as setting the permissions (per Membergroup).

Kpac is right...you can't log-in...if you're not a member.  Also, you can set different permissions within the chat itself.  It also syncs Admin?Moderator accounts, so they have their permissions within the chat.

The nice thing about my version of chat is the look...allowing members to set their own preferences...as well as the ability to use smileys, fonts, etc., etc.  Though it may be resource intensive...due to it being flash, it's basically not that much different from IRC.  It also blends well with the SMF default skin we use.

It also has the ability for chats to take place in private rooms, which makes it a great choice for support requests, as well.  File transfer is also available...but always remember...do you trust the person sending you the file...do you trust the file...that's where you malware protection comes in handy.

The trick is to find a chat program that can be implemented and integrated within the CH main site and/or forum.

I would've went with an IRC client for the main site (Drupal CMS), but chose to have one integrated into the forums.

I also noticed a comment about CH becoming a social network instead of a place to go for free computer help.  Based on some of the threads and posts I've seen...it's already gone there.  One of the drawbacks of having so many members...some who should be in a chat room...instead of posting on the forums...but, hey...that's me.

I look forward to Nathan's comments on this thread...and I can't wait to see where this thing goes.

[patio]

Personally i would not use it at all and don't think it would be a welcome addition to CH...

[Zylstra]

Prototype 0.1:
http://www.computerhope.com/forum/index.php/topic,63991.0.html

Please comment on the new topic with any issues you see (besides the incredible ugliness of the plain pages) and errors you may have.

[Glitch]

Don't know if this has been brought up...but guests shouldn't be allowed in chat.

Nothing but a headache.

They're looking for help when others are trying to have a conversation...and the irc is not setup for that.

It's a ball of confusion.

[Zylstra]

Don't know if this has been brought up...but guests shouldn't be allowed in chat.

Nothing but a headache.

They're looking for help when others are trying to have a conversation...and the irc is not setup for that.

It's a ball of confusion.

Right now, #computerhope is also a support channel....
I think the support channel should be separate so I can actively ignore it...  (I can operate support chat, but have always disliked it to a certain point)

[Glitch]

Problem with Support Chat is that, unless there are individual rooms for each user requesting assistance, it's just going to be that "ball of confusion" I was referring to.

Live Support Chat is always great to have, but unless you have the members to monitor it, or the individual rooms I was referring to, then it's just going to get in the way of the social chats...or just confuse the users who are looking for live support.

That's why I'm using FlashChat.  Admins/Moderators have the ability to create these private rooms..and providing live support is easy in that respect.  You'll always want to keep support and social chat separate.

I'm not sure if CH Social chat was meant for this, though.  I'm also not sure if this current chat has the ability to have one-on-one conversations between members.

Care to enlighten me?

[Zylstra]

You can create private rooms, just type:
/join #somerandomroomhere to create a new channel.

I would like to see support and social chat as two separate things. My idea in the first place was just for social chat...
I really dont like operating support chat, which is moreover a personal opinion, working one on one with a person with a PEBCAK error, sometimes even a ID 10 T error, is just a bit frustrating at times.

Still, I will help occasionally.

I will seldom help in chat if no one is there to cover for me if I might have to immediately leave due to whatever events happen on my end. There is such a variety of issues, and my knowledge isnt as broad as it needs to be to help everyone.

[!~*:.Pink Floyd.:*~!]

guys I just Rebooted after a virus scan and whenever I log in it comes to a blank room and no ones connected.

EDIT: Ill try reinstalling flash

K help I dont know what I did

It was a Malware bytes scan.

[Emiel]

I would definitely use it. I'd like to have a chat with the people who are keeping this forum alive, healthy and kick-*ss sometime!

Emiel

[Computer Hope Admin]

Thought that I'd also make this post in this thread since it was brought up in the TO-DO list thread.

My original intention of the chat was also meant as a place for people to not only talk about computers but ask about them and learn more. At this time I'd prefer to leave the chat the way it is and not confine it to the status as a "social chat". Also because there isn't dozens of people in the chat I'd also prefer that there be only one room. No point in having multiple empty rooms.