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Author Topic: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine  (Read 24405 times)

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Annon

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US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
« on: August 30, 2008, 04:35:34 AM »
Large Hadron Collider


The most powerful atom-smasher ever built could make some bizarre discoveries, such as invisible matter or extra dimensions in space, after it is switched on in August. But some critics fear the Large Hadron Collider could exceed physicists' wildest conjectures: Will it spawn a black hole that could swallow Earth? Or spit out particles that could turn the planet into a hot dead
lump? Ridiculous, say scientists at the European Organization for Nuclear Research, known by its French initials CERN - some of whom have been working for a generation on the $5.8 billion collider, or LHC.

"Obviously, the world will not end when the LHC switches on," said project leader Lyn Evans.

David Francis, a physicist on the collider's huge ATLAS particle detector, smiled when asked whether he worried about black holes and hypothetical killer particles known as strangelets.

"If I thought that this was going to happen, I would be well away from here," he said.

The collider basically consists of a ring of supercooled magnets 17 miles in circumference attached to huge barrel-shaped detectors. The ring, which straddles the French and Swiss border, is buried 330 feet underground.

The machine, which has been called the largest scientific experiment in history, isn't expected to begin test runs until August, and ramping up to full power could take months. But once it is working, it is expected to produce some startling findings.

Scientists plan to hunt for signs of the invisible "dark matter" and "dark energy" that make up more than 96 percent of the universe, and hope to glimpse the elusive Higgs boson, a so-far undiscovered particle thought to give matter its mass.

The collider could find evidence of extra dimensions, a boon for superstring theory, which holds that quarks, the particles that make up atoms, are infinitesimal vibrating strings.

The theory could resolve many of physics' unanswered questions, but requires about 10 dimensions - far more than the three spatial dimensions our senses experience.

The safety of the collider, which will generate energies seven times higher than its most powerful rival, at Fermilab near Chicago, has been debated for years. The physicist Martin Rees has estimated the chance of an accelerator producing a global catastrophe at one in 50 million - long odds, to be sure, but about the same as winning some lotteries.

By contrast, a CERN team this month issued a report concluding that there is "no conceivable danger" of a cataclysmic event. The report essentially confirmed the findings of a 2003 CERN safety report, and a panel of five prominent scientists not affiliated with CERN, including one Nobel laureate, endorsed its conclusions.

Critics of the LHC filed a lawsuit in a Hawaiian court in March seeking to block its startup, alleging that there was "a significant risk that ... operation of the Collider may have unintended consequences which could ultimately result in the destruction of our planet."

One of the plaintiffs, Walter L. Wagner, a physicist and lawyer, said Wednesday CERN's safety report, released June 20, "has several major flaws," and his views on the risks of using the particle accelerator had not changed.

On Tuesday, U.S. Justice Department lawyers representing the Department of Energy and the National Science Foundation filed a motion to dismiss the case.

The two agencies have contributed $531 million to building the collider, and the NSF has agreed to pay $87 million of its annual operating costs. Hundreds of American scientists will participate in the research.

The lawyers called the plaintiffs' allegations "extraordinarily speculative," and said "there is no basis for any conceivable threat" from black holes or other objects the LHC might produce. A hearing on the motion is expected in late July or August.

In rebutting doomsday scenarios, CERN scientists point out that cosmic rays have been bombarding the earth, and triggering collisions similar to those planned for the collider, since the solar system formed 4.5 billion years ago.

And so far, Earth has survived.

"The LHC is only going to reproduce what nature does every second, what it has been doing for billions of years," said John Ellis, a British theoretical physicist at CERN.

Critics like Wagner have said the collisions caused by accelerators could be more hazardous than those of cosmic rays.

Both may produce micro black holes, subatomic versions of cosmic black holes - collapsed stars whose gravity fields are so powerful that they can suck in planets and other stars.

But micro black holes produced by cosmic ray collisions would likely be traveling so fast they would pass harmlessly through the earth.

Micro black holes produced by a collider, the skeptics theorize, would move more slowly and might be trapped inside the earth's gravitational field - and eventually threaten the planet.

Ellis said doomsayers assume that the collider will create micro black holes in the first place, which he called unlikely. And even if they appeared, he said, they would instantly evaporate, as predicted by the British physicist Stephen Hawking.

As for strangelets, CERN scientists point out that they have never been proven to exist. They said that even if these particles formed inside the Collider they would quickly break down.

When the LHC is finally at full power, two beams of protons will race around the huge ring 11,000 times a second in opposite directions. They will travel in two tubes about the width of fire hoses, speeding through a vacuum that is colder and emptier than outer space.

Their trajectory will be curved by supercooled magnets - to guide the beams around the rings and prevent the packets of protons from cutting through the surrounding magnets like a blowtorch.

The paths of these beams will cross, and a few of the protons in them will collide, at a series of cylindrical detectors along the ring. The two largest detectors are essentially huge digital cameras, each weighing thousands of tons, capable of taking millions of snapshots a second.

Each year the detectors will generate 15 petabytes of data, the equivalent of a stack of CDs 12 miles tall. The data will require a high speed global network of computers for analysis.

Wagner and others filed a lawsuit to halt operation of the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider, or RHIC, at the Brookhaven National Laboratory in New York state in 1999. The courts dismissed the suit.

The leafy campus of CERN, a short drive from the shores of Lake Geneva, hardly seems like ground zero for doomsday. And locals don't seem overly concerned. Thousands attended an open house here this spring.

"There is a huge army of scientists who know what they are talking about and are sleeping quite soundly as far as concerns the LHC," said project leader Evans.

Official Website
http://aliceinfo.cern.ch//

Soviet_Genius

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Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2008, 10:32:02 AM »
It's gonna be another black mesa  :o

!~*:.Pink Floyd.:*~!

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Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2008, 09:23:45 PM »
when are they going to turn it on?

Annon

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Carbon Dudeoxide

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Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2008, 04:01:48 AM »
Well it looks cool.
(i've seen this before)

Aegis



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Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2008, 09:49:03 AM »
Yes, watch as the United States, first users of atomic weaponry, file a lawsuit to stop the supercollider.  Watch as the United States does not file the lawsuit while this is in the planning stages, but waits five minutes before the system is to be turned on.

"Hey, Rocky!  Watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!"
"That old trick, again?"
"Nothin' up my sleeve..."


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Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2008, 09:51:08 AM »
"Hey, Rocky!  Watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!"
"That old trick, again?"
"Nothin' up my sleeve..."

Wolf! Wolf!      :P

Annon

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Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2008, 03:03:54 AM »
Its human nature, sadly things are often not taken seriously until it’s too late.

Global warming for example.

Annon

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Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2008, 08:43:10 AM »
It was turned on today at 9.30 BST - 5pm AEST

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7604293.stm

fireballs



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    Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
    « Reply #9 on: September 10, 2008, 08:50:01 AM »
    well i'm still here and im closer to france than the US is.....

    FB
    Next time google it.

    Carbon Dudeoxide

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    Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
    « Reply #10 on: September 10, 2008, 08:50:41 AM »
    http://www.computerhope.com/forum/index.php/topic,65846.0.html

    According to my sources, it will still be on for another four hours.

    Annon

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    Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
    « Reply #11 on: September 10, 2008, 09:02:44 AM »
    It will be left on until winter; read the article supplied ;)

    typhoeus



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      Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
      « Reply #12 on: September 10, 2008, 09:03:18 AM »
      Its human nature, sadly things are often not taken seriously until it’s too late.

      Global warming for example.


       ::)

      If you listen to fools, the Mob Rules.

      We worship Jeff, the god of biscuits.

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      Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
      « Reply #13 on: September 10, 2008, 03:36:22 PM »

      Its human nature, sadly things are often not taken seriously until it’s too late.


      Yeah, like Y2K. Remember that catastroph... Oh wait a minute, nothing happened. Oh yeah.


      I can still remember wishing I could see the looks on the faces of all those people saying we'd be eating human flesh by valentines day.
      I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

      Dead_reckon

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      Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
      « Reply #14 on: September 11, 2008, 10:08:11 PM »
      Oh wonderful, whats next? Research into the ability to zombify people? I have a sudden urge to grab an AK-47, a lot of ammo, MRE's, and hide in one of the bunkers around here that's left over from the cold war.

      and lol@



      "Rise and shine Mr. Freeman... Rise and.. Shine.. Not that I wish to imply you have been sleeping on the job.. No one is more deserving of a rest.. And all the effort in the world would have gone to waste if.. Until... Well lets just say your hour has come again... The right man in the wrong place could make all the difference in the world... So wake up Mr. Freeman... Wake up and smell the ashes...."

      HL2 Intro

      Annon

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      Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
      « Reply #15 on: September 12, 2008, 12:33:57 AM »

      Its human nature, sadly things are often not taken seriously until it’s too late.
      Yeah, like Y2K. Remember that catastroph....

      Y2K was a joke, this is messing with physics and energy of which the likes the human race has never toyed before; I do think the befits out way the risks, but I am certainly not trying to compare this with Y2k.

      Aegis



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      Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
      « Reply #16 on: September 12, 2008, 12:49:17 AM »
      ::: sigh :::

      The collider exists in order to concentrate the large amounts of energy into the small spaces it takes to "bring out" the class of particle s for which physicists are currently searching.  Fermilab, in Batavia, IL, had its accelerator upgraded a few years ago, and I believe it was used to find one of the missing quarks in the current model.

      Nobody complained about that.

      I'm no physicist, but black holes are a product of mass -- extremely large mass occupying extremely small space.  Yes, while the LHC uses great amounts of energy, and we know that energy and mass are equivalent, the energy is being "poured into" causing these particles to be generated via the collisions in the...collider. 

      The LHC is not about generating mass.    ???


      "For you, a thousand times over." - "The Kite Runner"

      Annon

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      Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
      « Reply #17 on: September 12, 2008, 01:04:38 AM »
      They are trying to figure out what mass is beyond or current understanding, it is theorized one we now what mass is we can recreate it, this turning one apple into two apples :)

      As for your question.

      By recreating the searing-hot conditions fractions of a second after the Big Bang, scientists hope to see new physics, discover the sought-after "God particle", "I belive this is what you mean by S particles" uncover new dimensions and even generate mini-black holes.

      The Higgs is nicknamed the God particle because of its importance to the Standard Model, the theory devised to explain how sub-atomic particles interact with each other.

      The 16 particles that make up this model (12 matter particles and 4 force carrier particles) would have no mass if considered alone.

      Hope this helps.





      Aegis



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      Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
      « Reply #18 on: September 12, 2008, 06:24:30 AM »
      ...but it's not beyond our current understanding.  Consider that Einstein's work began a bit over a hundred years ago.  In "The Elegant Universe," author Brian Greene talks about string theory and particle physics.  He says we still have a long way to go, but that the exciting thing is that the results of experiments and tests done so far so closely mirror mathematical predictions made so far.


      "For you, a thousand times over." - "The Kite Runner"

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      Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
      « Reply #19 on: September 13, 2008, 09:37:36 AM »

      Its human nature, sadly things are often not taken seriously until it’s too late.
      Yeah, like Y2K. Remember that catastroph....

      Y2K was a joke, this is messing with physics and energy of which the likes the human race has never toyed before; I do think the befits out way the risks, but I am certainly not trying to compare this with Y2k.

      I wasn't comparing it to Y2K, but rather the overreaction it was met with. People started MAKING STUFF UP about what can happen, simply because using the short date format on SPECIFIC programs MIGHT cause entries like 5/5/00 to be in the year 1900 rather then 2000. But No, this simple problem obviously would cause airline computers so suddenly GROW consciousness and logically deduce that planes didn't exist in the year 1900 and thus they should be crashed into the ground.

       Warranted, schedules could be screwed up, but Airlines don't require entry of years, and when they do it is a full four digits rather then 2.


      Also, they've performed experiments with particle accelerators for ages, why this flux of interest? because they say it's possible the earth could be destroyed? probably more chance of me opening my refrigerator and finding a bear.
      I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

      Aegis



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      Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
      « Reply #20 on: September 13, 2008, 09:39:29 AM »
      Quote
      probably more chance of me opening my refrigerator and finding a bear.

      So, how's that bear tasting?  Nummy, I bet!   ;)


      "For you, a thousand times over." - "The Kite Runner"

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      Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
      « Reply #21 on: September 13, 2008, 09:46:04 AM »
      Quote
      probably more chance of me opening my refrigerator and finding a bear.

      So, how's that bear tasting?  Nummy, I bet!   ;)

      If I was to engage in the act of attempting to consume a bear, I would first try to take a bite, resulting only in a mouthful of fur. At this point the bear would be very confused, it had suddenly appeared in a refrigerator, the door opened, and some strange person is now trying to eat him. Then the bear would realize that it was him against the world and he would go on a rampage, until the conservation officers finally filled him with tranquilizers. THEN FINALLY I can begin my meal.

      Officer 1:OK, the bears down. Whew, that one was pissed off.

      Officer 2: You bet. Say, whos that going towards the bear?

      Officer 1: Hmm, he's wearing a bib.

      Officer 2:looks like he's trying to eat the bear.

      Officer 1:did you say eat the bear?

      Officer 2:yes, yes I did.

      Officer 1: most interesting.

      Officer 2: indeed

      Officer 1: quite.
      I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

      typhoeus



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        Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
        « Reply #22 on: September 13, 2008, 09:48:43 AM »
        Nice one BCP.  ;D

        Quote
        probably more chance of me opening my refrigerator and finding a bear.

        So, how's that bear tasting?  Nummy, I bet!   ;)

        I have a possum in mine.  Yum yum.  :)

        The alarmist attitude is also coming into play with global warming.  While there might be some small amount of global warming, very little of it is human-made.  Humans may be able to stop a little bit, but the majority of the small amount is natural, and we are unable to affect it.
        If you listen to fools, the Mob Rules.

        We worship Jeff, the god of biscuits.

        Aegis



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        Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
        « Reply #23 on: September 13, 2008, 09:54:16 AM »
        That may be true, T, but we should do what we can.  We've been pumping hydrocarbons into the atmosphere since Britain industrialized in the late 1800's.  We should err on the side of caution.


        "For you, a thousand times over." - "The Kite Runner"

        kpac

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        Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
        « Reply #24 on: September 13, 2008, 10:02:14 AM »
        It's not just the UK. All first world countries aren't helping in any way.l

        typhoeus



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          Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
          « Reply #25 on: September 13, 2008, 10:02:43 AM »
          That may be true, T, but we should do what we can.  We've been pumping hydrocarbons into the atmosphere since Britain industrialized in the late 1800's.  We should err on the side of caution.

          I could agree with you if your methods of "doing what we can" aren't more harmful than helpful.  But I do like the idea of erring on the side of caution.  Also, I'm glad you haven't been duped like so many others by Al Gore and others who know nothing about global warming yet advise conservation despite the fact that they drive big limos, fly private jets, and own big houses, which they're not in most of the time.  And the methods they advise are usually too expensive for average people.  But they blame us for hurting the environment, while somehow their money donations to various causes alleviate any guilt which should be attributed to them.
          If you listen to fools, the Mob Rules.

          We worship Jeff, the god of biscuits.

          BC_Programmer


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          Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
          « Reply #26 on: September 13, 2008, 05:41:16 PM »
          I still want to know what caused global warming in the mesozoic era. I'm fairly sure there weren't any industrialized "nations" then.

          Is it just me or is it kind of strange that oil and coal (created from vegetation from the mesozoic, a very hot period) is now being held partially responsible for "global warming" today.


          And Al Gore, I love when people actually read his "book", a tome of propaganda, they somehow think he actually can tell his @$$ from a hole in the ground, forgetting that he is a politician, and almost everything a politician does is in their own interest.
          I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

          typhoeus



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            Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
            « Reply #27 on: September 13, 2008, 06:15:19 PM »
            Right on, BC_Programmer.  ;) :)
            If you listen to fools, the Mob Rules.

            We worship Jeff, the god of biscuits.

            Aegis



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            Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
            « Reply #28 on: September 13, 2008, 06:46:46 PM »
            I was on the bandwagon for a while, but was fortunate to hear debate from both sides.  I still think we should curb our emissions where we reasonably can do so.  Gore's no saint, but he's help raise awareness.  We shouldn't go on acting like pollution is no big deal.

            What scares me more than the LHC is that some fool's gonna figure out what to do with zero point energy, and at least in that theory, there are definite thresholds to which we need to pay attention!


            "For you, a thousand times over." - "The Kite Runner"

            BC_Programmer


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            Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
            « Reply #29 on: September 13, 2008, 06:56:12 PM »
            I was on the bandwagon for a while, but was fortunate to hear debate from both sides.  I still think we should curb our emissions where we reasonably can do so. 


            But of course! even if pollution weren't to cause a doomsday, it still isn't exactly healthy for anybody, and it surely can't do anything positive.
            I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

            typhoeus



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              Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
              « Reply #30 on: September 13, 2008, 07:01:01 PM »
              I was on the bandwagon for a while, but was fortunate to hear debate from both sides.  I still think we should curb our emissions where we reasonably can do so.  Gore's no saint, but he's help raise awareness.  We shouldn't go on acting like pollution is no big deal.

              Pollution is a big deal, but I don't think global warming is.  Perhaps Gore has helped; even the smallest microorganisms contribute to the big picture.  I'm glad you listened to both sides Aegis, and jumped off the Bandwagon.  The most important thing to remember when forming an opinion is that the majority is not always right.  And curbing emissions when possible is an great idea, its just not that contributory to global warming.   ;)
              If you listen to fools, the Mob Rules.

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              patio

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              Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
              « Reply #31 on: September 13, 2008, 08:33:04 PM »
              Take a look at Gore's house and then tell me he's not a hypocrite...
              " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

              typhoeus



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                Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
                « Reply #32 on: September 13, 2008, 08:34:14 PM »
                My point exactly.  Hypocrites are a pet peeve of mine.
                If you listen to fools, the Mob Rules.

                We worship Jeff, the god of biscuits.

                Aegis



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                Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
                « Reply #33 on: September 13, 2008, 09:01:02 PM »
                Agreed.  I want to knock on doors and ask these people why their opulent homes aren't shingled with solar panel shingles from which they could power the whole house most of the time -- heck, people with them sell their excess power back to the grid!


                "For you, a thousand times over." - "The Kite Runner"

                typhoeus



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                  Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
                  « Reply #34 on: September 13, 2008, 09:07:48 PM »
                  Agreed.  I want to knock on doors and ask these people why their opulent homes aren't shingled with solar panel shingles from which they could power the whole house most of the time -- heck, people with them sell their excess power back to the grid!

                  Good one.  If we had been researching solar panels from the time they were first brought up, in the 70's, average people might be able to afford them by now.  Instead we're still stuck with fossil fuels, whose price is going up daily.
                  If you listen to fools, the Mob Rules.

                  We worship Jeff, the god of biscuits.

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                  Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
                  « Reply #35 on: September 13, 2008, 09:30:36 PM »
                  Agreed.  I want to knock on doors and ask these people why their opulent homes aren't shingled with solar panel shingles from which they could power the whole house most of the time -- heck, people with them sell their excess power back to the grid!

                  Good one.  If we had been researching solar panels from the time they were first brought up, in the 70's, average people might be able to afford them by now.  Instead we're still stuck with fossil fuels, whose price is going up daily.


                  and yet their price is almost 80% tax... I've never quite understood that. Why so many taxes?
                  I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

                  typhoeus



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                    Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
                    « Reply #36 on: September 13, 2008, 09:34:12 PM »
                    Because of all the debt.
                    If you listen to fools, the Mob Rules.

                    We worship Jeff, the god of biscuits.

                    BC_Programmer


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                    Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
                    « Reply #37 on: September 13, 2008, 09:37:36 PM »
                    Because of all the debt.

                    what do you mean? debt to whom?
                    I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

                    typhoeus



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                      Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
                      « Reply #38 on: September 13, 2008, 09:39:54 PM »
                      I was referring to the USA, and our enormous debt to various countries.

                      Typhoeus out.
                      If you listen to fools, the Mob Rules.

                      We worship Jeff, the god of biscuits.

                      BC_Programmer


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                      Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
                      « Reply #39 on: September 13, 2008, 09:44:56 PM »
                      I was referring to the USA, and our enormous debt to various countries.

                      Typhoeus out.

                      ok, other countries have debt to, Canada of course being no exception. But why are the taxes only applied to gasoline?  WOuldn't it be more democratic to raise the GST instead?
                      I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

                      typhoeus



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                        Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
                        « Reply #40 on: September 14, 2008, 12:06:03 PM »
                        I was referring to the USA, and our enormous debt to various countries.

                        Typhoeus out.

                        ok, other countries have debt to, Canada of course being no exception. But why are the taxes only applied to gasoline?  WOuldn't it be more democratic to raise the GST instead?

                        Democracy has nothing to do with it.  Stupidity has everything to do with it.
                        If you listen to fools, the Mob Rules.

                        We worship Jeff, the god of biscuits.

                        BC_Programmer


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                        Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
                        « Reply #41 on: September 14, 2008, 07:21:35 PM »
                        Stupidity has everything to do with it.

                        80%, actually.
                        I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

                        Dead_reckon

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                        Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
                        « Reply #42 on: September 14, 2008, 08:01:24 PM »
                        That may be true, T, but we should do what we can.  We've been pumping hydrocarbons into the atmosphere since Britain industrialized in the late 1800's.  We should err on the side of caution.

                        That's a little over two hundred years, that's a split second to the earth. We are just like a bad case of flea's on the earth, when the time comes, things will circle around and the earth will shake us off. Its a simple matter of time, that's all. If you think I'm driving a Prius because people want to blame themselves for earths climate change, your nuts. I couldn't FIT in a Prius sized vehicle if my life depended on it. I'm more of the type to drive a full sized car from the 80's than a Prius.

                        The whole fuel efficiency thing is a crock. My father drives a 1986 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser with a 307 big block Oldsmobile V8. The engine came stock in the car, he's removed the emissions and removed almost everything tied in with them except the distributor and carburetor. He still has to find the parts to replace them to the 1980 model with no computer/emissions. Anyway, the point of this is, the wagon weighs roughly 4,600lbs with him in it, and all his tools and such, yet it gets almost 20MPG in town, and about 22, or 24MPG on the highway. Not bad considering the vehicle, the point being, global warming is a marketing scheme.

                        Emission controls where one of the many marketing schemes that rolled cars up into the confusing mess of plastic electronic crap they are now. Where if they break, your screwed unless you invest a good chunk of what you paid for the car to have it fixed. Its about making crap cheaper and calling it "Eco-Friendly" then selling it for way more than its worth. Whats with all these 40MPG vehicles that a couple years ago got half that? Explain that, I already can, its marketing, everybody that's rich gets richer, everybody that gets poor gets poorer, and they don't care. What do you think the the Hadron Collider is for? To the scientists, its about finding out what Mass is, but I'm sure someone funding them is looking to eventually find a way to become richer. Think about it, the ability to create things from nothing, think if you controlled that. Just think about it, sounds crazy, but its highly plausible.

                        BC_Programmer


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                        Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
                        « Reply #43 on: September 14, 2008, 09:45:46 PM »
                        That may be true, T, but we should do what we can.  We've been pumping hydrocarbons into the atmosphere since Britain industrialized in the late 1800's.  We should err on the side of caution.

                        That's a little over two hundred years, that's a split second to the earth. We are just like a bad case of flea's on the earth, when the time comes, things will circle around and the earth will shake us off. Its a simple matter of time, that's all. If you think I'm driving a Prius because people want to blame themselves for earths climate change, your nuts. I couldn't FIT in a Prius sized vehicle if my life depended on it. I'm more of the type to drive a full sized car from the 80's than a Prius.

                        The whole fuel efficiency thing is a crock. My father drives a 1986 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser with a 307 big block Oldsmobile V8. The engine came stock in the car, he's removed the emissions and removed almost everything tied in with them except the distributor and carburetor. He still has to find the parts to replace them to the 1980 model with no computer/emissions. Anyway, the point of this is, the wagon weighs roughly 4,600lbs with him in it, and all his tools and such, yet it gets almost 20MPG in town, and about 22, or 24MPG on the highway. Not bad considering the vehicle, the point being, global warming is a marketing scheme.

                        Emission controls where one of the many marketing schemes that rolled cars up into the confusing mess of plastic electronic crap they are now. Where if they break, your screwed unless you invest a good chunk of what you paid for the car to have it fixed. Its about making crap cheaper and calling it "Eco-Friendly" then selling it for way more than its worth. Whats with all these 40MPG vehicles that a couple years ago got half that? Explain that, I already can, its marketing, everybody that's rich gets richer, everybody that gets poor gets poorer, and they don't care. What do you think the the Hadron Collider is for? To the scientists, its about finding out what Mass is, but I'm sure someone funding them is looking to eventually find a way to become richer. Think about it, the ability to create things from nothing, think if you controlled that. Just think about it, sounds crazy, but its highly plausible.

                        And drinking diet soda makes you go crazy later in life.


                        the MPG thing may be a crock, but we'll run out of oil eventually (unless they find a way to create it- hey, they did with diamonds...). THe number of miles per gallon a vehicle can get is irrelevant when there is no gasoline to fuel it.
                        I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

                        Dead_reckon

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                        Re: US lawsuit calls Large Hadron Collider a Doomsday Machine
                        « Reply #44 on: September 14, 2008, 10:41:36 PM »
                        THe number of miles per gallon a vehicle can get is irrelevant when there is no gasoline to fuel it.

                        That's my point ENTIRELY, its all irrelevant in the end, they don't want consumers to see that. Its a mass media market, you see what they want you to see unless your actually looking. Call me crazy if you want, but the way I see it, every bit of the modern society in America is designed to only a few things, those things are to subliminally control the people by slowly chopping away our rights. Same way they did in Europe, hence the EU, same way they'll do here, creating the NAU, North American Union. Of which, you can find little about, but its already in play.

                        To put it bluntly, its all just a blind stupid power struggle to decide who owns you, doesn't matter where you live, someone owns you. In the end, nothing matters, live your life to suit you and disregard those to blind to see the system the way it is. That's my way of living, call me crazy if you want, but I doubt I'll stay on the grid all my life just because of the crap that's snowballing up in the present. Point being is like I said, if you are a part of the system, your owned, your branded cattle, one of just a many in a herd. They don't care about us as individuals, they care about us as a whole group the same way a farmer cares about his flock as a whole group. They don't care about loosing one or a few, just loosing a whole lot that might affect there well being, without us, they can't be rich no more, and they can't go off doing senseless science projects like with the Hadron Collider.

                        Humans ask to much of there environment, always breaking down and analyzing, but most of us don't stop and look at whats around us, stop to think how easily all this could end. All it would take is a couple idiots doing a couple stupid things to end the way of life that we so blindly submit to. Sure, go ahead, I know most of the ones here my age are all hoping to go for the American Dream, a house, possibly kids, couple new cars, and maybe a cute puppy. The thing about the American Dream is, you have to be asleep to believe it, and most people are dreaming away.

                        I see things the way they are, simple, to the point. People are ignorant, and too self absorbed in most cases, which is why the whole world is the mess it is. Its human nature, something much like the planets cycles that cannot be changed easily. But that doesn't mean it can't be changed, look at society, its slowly getting tamer, the line between part of society and a threat to society is becoming a very sharp edge. And that's the way the people that own you want it, they want you to be a part of the crowd, part of the blind society, one of many who think as a blind whole body never seeing outside there lives. Instead of one that see's himself as one of many, one who is an individual, one who thinks for himself and one who acts on his own. One who isn't part of the crowd because he thinks outside of the box so to speak, one who will not abide by there standards and rules, and one who will not simply sit when told.

                        Take what you want out of this, my point is, people do as there told, as they are conditioned and trained to do. They obey, they sit when told, and they don't realize it. How does this relate to the Hadron Collider? That's simple, its all human nature. To explore, to question, to break things down to there simplest form, but most of all, to control the environment around them.