Computers a NEED in a classroom?

[computeruler]

i no people on my msn that always im me from school lol they are always on during school

[jill8beans2]

I agree teaching students how to use computers is a valuable tool, but it's not everything - there is a lot of education to be taught above and beyond how to maximaze the use of a computer.  Also, if student's education focused on the  use of computers, it would cause students to get lax on knowing how to do things manually, for example math, or spelling. 

I believe a laptop for every student would be a waste of time and money.  If the school is providing computers, it should be desktops in the classroom for which it is needed.  This would allow more students to be able to use them.  Plus, if each student had their own, it would encourage gaming and emailing during class time.  With classroom computers, the software on them is moderated.

If parents had to supply, it would put a lot of pressure on parents and cause segregation.

[Carbon Dudeoxide]

10,000 points to Jill8beans2.

Oh, and Welcome to ComputerHope.

[BC_Programmer]

So we're tied then?

[Carbon Dudeoxide]

You only have 1,000 points. 

[BC_Programmer]

oh yeah. darn.

[liambiscuit]

Sorry I havn't been able to check back in a while... Computer has been in a state of... inoperability. What if these computers we're filtered (which I know the ones at my school are going to, plus, as far as i know, no MSN on Macintosh's without third-party software)

i no people on my msn that always im me from school lol they are always on during school

But anyways.... My school is currently building a 4.7 million (bugeted) dollar gym. They can afford 1,200 MacBooks for 400 (current high-school count) students.

And when in the heckleson did Algebra become a separate course? I'd always had it integrated with Math 8, Math 9, Math 10, Math 11, and Math 12.

Not anymore, then. We call Math 8 "Eighth grade math" or sometimes "Pre-Al."  After that it goes Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2, and... crud forgot what the last one was... Think it's Trig. Not sure.

I agree with soybean.
My old school (secondary school) had 6 computer rooms, for IT lessons and for general use (maths, making graphics, English, typing essays, etc).  They would never have been able to afford a laptop for each student, and I wouldn't expect them to.
I think giving out laptops to students is a waste of money myself.  A few computer rooms (or labs, as everyone else seems to call them) are, "necessary" - not absolutely necessary for everyday use, but in an increasingly technology-based world, definitely a very useful resource.

What if your school IS able to afford that? Our IT/Webmaster says there's 500 Mac's in a storage room somewhere on the grounds.

I agree, the labs ARE necessary. There is a list of who has the... I believe four... computer "labs" during the day. First come-first serve applies to the teachers when booking the labs. Problem is by the end of monday, all the labs are booked until Friday. One time, before the whole idea of buying the Mac's was thought up, we we're writing an essay about a time when you were stranded in the middle of nowhere... but that doesn't matter. The essay had to be typed or it wouldn't be accepted for a grade. I typed mine at home, which wasn't a problem, but it was for some of my classmates that don't own a computer. It took four days once we we're *ALL* finished writing for a whole 45 minutes in a lab.

The school pretty much didn't have enough labs for the amount of teachers/students needing to use the labs. (I think it adds up to 150 or so COMPUTERS STUDENTS CAN USE in the whole school. THat means Elementary, Jr. High, and High all have to compete. [The buildings are side-by-side and have halls connecting, so it's pretty much one building])

Then all these classes are competing for only FOURTY-FIVE MINUTES. That is *Hardly* enough, if not enough at all.

If we had more labs (or more computers in the labs) I would agree with many of you. What do you think now in this situation? Are LAPTOPS, Not necessarially Mac's, a necessity?

[Calum]

Hey ... my old school, with 1000 students, had about 100 desktop computers, in total, for students to use.  We got by just fine.

[liambiscuit]

wow. Lol

[Calum]

I really don't see why that's so amazing.
Yes, as I have said, computers are useful to have.  They are not the meaning of life, or education.

[liambiscuit]

EH. I was bored when I made this and I thought it would make a good topic. Plus the poll is a tie between "Windows XP, it's a need" and "It isn't a need"

[BC_Programmer]

The one time I submitted an Essay typed up- I was suspected of plagarizing. When I wrote the entire thing (well, paraphrasing it really) out by hand without looking at it, I think I convinced my teacher .

So I didn't write-up another essay on the computer until I was out of school.

And when in the heckleson did Algebra become a separate course? I'd always had it integrated with Math 8, Math 9, Math 10, Math 11, and Math 12.

Not anymore, then. We call Math 8 "Eighth grade math" or sometimes "Pre-Al."  After that it goes Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2, and... crud forgot what the last one was... Think it's Trig. Not sure.

I'm in Canada. we learn Algebra in Grade 7, polynomials in 9, (or was it 10?) and I can't remember 10 really- but 11 and 12 was mostly graphing calc BS- what was funny was I got an A and all I had was a scientific most of the semester. I had two laptops during this time, but the only time they ever came out was during Info-Tech classes, and even then only for retrieving data that I had copied there for some reason.

But anyways.... My school is currently building a 4.7 million (bugeted) dollar gym. They can afford 1,200 MacBooks for 400 (current high-school count) students.

I'm trying to see the logic here, but I just don't. It's like saying, "I can afford this, so I can afford more" without taking into account any balances or anything. Even in the case that they can easily afford it- how does it benefit education?

Basically- I myself got by until grade 10 without a computer, and both 11 and 12 without a laptop, and still managed to make the honour roll while, IMO, coasting through the courses. So it becomes clear that even in courses oriented towards using a computer, one can easily get by without, if one has the proper initiative.

Obviously, then, the laptops benefit would fit the less scholastically inclined? No- can't say that either. The laptop would just be another distraction for them, another glowing light in their periphery preventing them from focusing on the task at hand, which likely only requires any computer use whatsoever because they have become accustomed to it from the beginning. The whole "Oh, no need to do that math in my head! Just use a calculator." mantra had me steamed from the beginning, because it teaches you to take tool-dependent shortcuts. If you take woodworking, they teach you how to use a hand drill before they let you loose on the drill press, despite being able to often do the work on the drill press easier. Why? Well, aside from likely having many more drills then drill presses, it teaches you the more "manual" method, rather then just the shortcut method. only THEN do they provide you with a shortcut method. Why? Because had they shown the shorter method first- there would be no initiative to even learn the more physically labourious method.  This applies in all Scholastic subjects as well. Be they Math, English, even art.

Basically- the problems you presented that the laptops would solve can just as easily be solved by investing that same money into another computer lab or two. Heck, if they have the funds available that you've hinted, add 3!

[liambiscuit]

But anyways.... My school is currently building a 4.7 million (bugeted) dollar gym. They can afford 1,200 MacBooks for 400 (current high-school count) students.

I'm trying to see the logic here, but I just don't. It's like saying, "I can afford this, so I can afford more" without taking into account any balances or anything. Even in the case that they can easily afford it- how does it benefit education?

Wasn't saying they could easially afford it, I meant 1200$ (appearantly I didn't put the dollar sign) MacBooks. Also wasn't saying that they bettered education.

Someone -- sorry not looking back to say who, such a big thread already -- said earlier that their school was unable to afford computers, and they got along fine without them. I was saying that my school can afford them and not all schools can.

- the problems you presented that the laptops would solve can just as easily be solved by investing that same money into another computer lab or two. Heck, if they have the funds available that you've hinted, add 3!

Yeah... Nontheless.

This is... depends on how you interpet it... might be off-(thread)-topic

I plan a career in the computer industry. I know VB solidly and parts of CPP and other languages. I can deconstruct and construct a whole computer part-by-part in an hour. (LINUX FTW. Had to slide that in, even though I'm using Windows ATM. Bit hypocritical, don't you think?) and, to me and the several computer classes I plan to take NEXT YEAR, it *WOULD* be a necessity. Not even a Laptop, but a computer, period. I can stay on topic. I can have 20 computer screens in one classroom and not be distracted by them... But that really depends on the student, doesn't it?

Plus your only counting the deficiencies about the computers. Can you think of anything BENEFICIAL?

[BC_Programmer]

I plan a career in the computer industry. I know VB solidly and parts of CPP and other languages. I can deconstruct and construct a whole computer part-by-part in an hour. (LINUX FTW. Had to slide that in, even though I'm using Windows ATM. Bit hypocritical, don't you think?) and, to me and the several computer classes I plan to take NEXT YEAR, it *WOULD* be a necessity. Not even a Laptop, but a computer, period. I can stay on topic. I can have 20 computer screens in one classroom and not be distracted by them... But that really depends on the student, doesn't it?

Plus your only counting the deficiencies about the computers. Can you think of anything BENEFICIAL?

Necessity, not particularly. In grade 10, when I first started getting into good ol' batch, my Computer science teacher gave me an old server computer. an 40Mhz 80386. I managed to get windows 3.1 and DOS 6 on it's massive 50MB hard drives. Did I mention this was in 2002? Because without a timeline, one cannot hope to understand how outdated the hardware was at the time.

Over the summer I learned VB2, which was also given to me. When I returned in September- I was already better (and he said it himself) at Visual Basic then he was.

Did I need a computer at all? well, that's a matter of opinion. I probably would have survived the summer with my 286, and simply played around with QBASIC.

At any rate- I merely have to argue your use of the word necessity, under any context.

Bear in mind that many computer college courses don't have a single computer in sight, and are done by hand. And- as far as programming is concerned, it let's you see the problem in a better light, one without the stressing flourescent overhead lamps, CRT screen casting a nightmarish shadow on the wall as it displays thousands of lines of spaghetti code generated in a flurry of creative fervor. problem being it has to be rewritten for maintenance purposes anyway, and so that time would have been better spent planning it out. And no... UML programs like Visio suck for this.

Wasn't saying they could easially afford it, I meant 1200$ (appearantly I didn't put the dollar sign) MacBooks. Also wasn't saying that they bettered education.

actually, without the dollar sign- it kind of looks like you meant for each student to have three laptops each. I never noticed that the first time though.


honestly- the benefits would probably only come to students like yourself who would use them for their intended purpose.

[Calum]

I plan a career in the computer industry. I know VB solidly and parts of CPP and other languages. I can deconstruct and construct a whole computer part-by-part in an hour.

At my secondary school, I also planned a career in the computer industry.  The only things we covered at school were MS Office and Serif DrawPlus.  I taught myself everything else I know (which isn't that much, I know) from magazines, Internet articles, and forums.  If I was to start on my PC now, I could have it taken apart in a few minutes, and back together almost as quickly.  But, who's counting?  It's the quality of the job that counts.  I make my living this way, so I need to be able to do this.
Point is, until I got to college I'd never used a computer, in the way I wanted to, at school.  At college, 90% of the stuff we do I've taught myself, and the rest I could teach myself if I was given a rough guide to what I'm required to do.  I'm not bragging - merely pointing out that even if my college had no computers, I don't think it would affect me very much, if at all.
My course, for anyone interested, is a BETC National Diploma for IT Practitioners: IT Systems Support.