Vista install review

[patio]

Just recently installed Vista Ultimate 64bit and thought i'd pass along some findings on the initial install process and impressions while things are still fresh.
Keep in mind i've heard and read as much as any of you that may read this ahead of time but i also set out to try and be as un-biased and open minded as i can.

First i'll explain that for testing purposes this wasn't exactly a conventional install..in other words because i was looking at all features and non-features i didn't simply slap the DVD in a drive and select install. This was on my newer benchtest machine  Specs Here  that was completed about 6 months ago. Although this rig is a multi-boot setup (4 Os's) i decided at the last minute to leave that out of the equation since after testing it will be getting a clean Vista install in that enviornment. So for these purposes the other drive was disconnected and Vista exists for now on it's own drive.
That being said...

The initial install was what i thought relatively smooth/no nonsense procedure. The initial black and white screen was a tad shocking...didn't even Win98 have a colored background ? Maybe they forgot. At any rate here is where Vista both shone and stumbled at the onset.
Most prompt screens are gone and have been intuitively automated...i think the only prompt you will remember from old flavors of Windows is the Time Zone choice. Since i run most of the time on the Admin account i chose that and 2 dummy accounts to test User and Admin seperation. Smooth as glass so far.
It automatically detects any other Windows installs and lets you select where it should land (NTFS only). There is also a prompt for migrating settings from another install but it didn't apply here so i clicked past.
Driver detection was the longest section and after that the file copying seemed to really fly...much quicker than i had expected.
Approx. 20 minutes later it stated it would re-boot a few times and Vista would be installed.
Upon re-boot (2 or3 i forgot to note) Bingo i'm seeing a nice green haze background for 20 seconds and then the Vista Welcome Center loads. Minimising this right away i start to dig into the innards.
Here's where it gets interesting......                                             continued

[patio]

My initial reaction was.....where is everything ?
From the Start menu most of the usual suspects are still there but they have also added Admin Tools,Music.Docs,Network and on all pinned to the right of the Start Menu.
They then take the liberty of filling the left side up with more mostly Windows based apps...all this easily customised.
So i open my old buddy Control Panel and it is completely different...mostly good but different. They have a Tour like window the first few times you use a component and then it reverts to whatever settings you choose. So far again so good.
Windows Explorer ...my 2nd stop on the journey is a bit more perplexing. Although the left pane/right pane layout is still the same the file menu is......Gone ? ? More on this later.
By default they again overthink what they think you want to do and prioritise Docs, Music,Pictures, Desktop, Games,Contacts,Links,Videos, Saved Games.....oh....there's my hard drives at the bottom. Perplexing.
Next stop the Web.
In my rush to get things going i had grabbed the latest FireFox build and threw it on a flash drive. Plug it in and it's instantly recognised and the ugly Autorun choice menu pops up. I go to Windows Explorer and wade thru (see List above ) everything and load FireFox. I get to meet a new buddy called UAC (User Accounts Control) which warns me of the dire consequences of installing something on my own machine and do i want to etc ?  Clik Yes
                                                      You Sure ? Clik Yes
                                                      Are you sure you're sure ? Clik Yes.     Sheese
Needless to say after i connect which by the way was seamless (very impressive) the first thing i did was hit the google bar in FireFox for instructions on dis-abling the UAC mentioned above. Following the instructions i click on Admin Tools on the Start menu and it takes me to ....the Admin applet...guess where...in Control Panel.
I'm starting to get this now...they're doing all my thinking for me and what i want to do and in trying to oversimplify things have moved me 3 mouse clicks away from anywhere i want to get to...More on ths later also.
So the web is fine and browsing seems a bit perkier and then the hammer falls ...BAM Windows Updates...
So i go along for the ride and jump thru the hoops and after about 600MG of DLoads (not all at one location) i re-boot.

Disk Boot Failure.
So i read the cryptic message and press the restart button
Disk Boot Failure
This happens twice more and after calming down with an Adult beverage of my choice i take stock of the situation. The only variable that has changed since i had already removed the DVD was...the flash drive.
Power down ...remove the flash drive and power up....Disk Boot Failure.
Repeat power down/up and....it boots as if nothing ever happened...more on this later.
                                                                                                    continued

[patio]

So i'm back in and tooling around checking things out and .. BOOM Windows Updates rears it's ugly head again....go figure. I thought 600MG would keep it happy but i guess there was a stray 1482kb lyin around somewhere that they felt i needed.

At any rate i throw in a Peter Gabriel CD while i waltz around some more checking out features and i remember i have not installed neither the MBoard drivers yet nor the EVGA/nVidia vid card drivers.
MBoard drivers first no problem. Re-boot. Upon re-start Device Manager opens and while i'm checking things IE opens and scarfs 4 missing MBoard components written for 64bit Vista that obviously were not included on the MBoard CD.
Impressive.
Sme routine for the 8800GTS card and the same result...it intuitively grabbed newer 64bit driver components...finished it's gig and prompted for re-boot.

Upon re-boot i again put the Gabriel CD in and that's when it hit me.
When WMP loaded the stunning graphics i saw made it seem as if i had gone out and grabbed a new monitor...what a difference.
I decided at this point that it was time to beat this thing up. I grabbed a sidebar gadget that monitors all 4 cores of my CPU and graphs RAM usage as well and installed it.
Loaded 10 or 15 FireFox windows started ripping a CD from another optical drive to my HDD ...nary a hiccup.
So i went to Control Panel...turned on Full Aero effects including Glass and window transparency and went back to check my usage and it was still minimal.
Threw a DVD movie in...left the other processes going and none of the cores ever got higher than 30% mostly low to mid teens.
RAM usage stayed pretty constant between 50 & 60 % but none of the tasks running including the rip to HDD ever hesitated even the slightest.
I kept all eye candy ramped up to it's fullest and still have it on today...i simply can't get this rig to even come close to a hiccup.

So i spent the rest of the evening tweaking folders and menu layouts etc. and DLoading and installing most of my critical utilities and apps and so far again so good. A few apps that i used regularly would not run in the 64bit atmosphere but this is extremely well handled with compatibility mode.  More on this later also.

Following day i powered down and re-connected my original multi-OS 500G SATA to take that through the wringer.
Booting to Vista first and logging into Disk Management everything was recognised except the Ubuntu partition. This was puzzling.
I transferred file folders of approx. 1 to 1 1/2G that were prepared ahead of time from each partition....pretty quick.
Powered down and booted to the XP partition to look at things from the other end and all looked pretty good. Booted back to the Vista drive and re-checked Disk Management and inexplicably...Ubuntu partition is now there.
Spent the rest of the afternoon installing major apps all with no hitches.
Scheduled all scans for that night with Task Scheduler including all malware scans and defrag and slept well.

Next few days was spent again basically tweaking things and getting them set to my liking ...more effort than it should be but i attribute that to everything being new.                                                                             continued

[patio]

         Conclusions and Summary

Dislikes

Major:  Disk Management. This is the only component that i can blame for the Disk Boot Failures initially after the setup and twice after that when i've disconnected/reconnected the main SATA drive. It seems that it needs to see something at least 2 or 3 times before it gets it.

            It also has a tendency to forget info it should retain...i.e. the Linux partition has gone missing again once or twice. They have changed the color scheme that designates what type of partition it is. Black=Unallocated Blue=Primary Green=Extended...these colors are so dark and close they could get confusing.

           UAC ( User Accounts Controls ) A major pain. Even after i disabled it i was still getting balloon popups that 2 more tweaks to get rid of.

           The basic layout. For someone used to Win2K or XP it takes 2 or 3 clicks to get where you used to be in one....again this can be tweaked but why should you have to do that just to work how you're used to ?

           The missing File Menu...see above.  But again why on earth would you bury a tool people have used since Win 3.1 ? ? Doesn't make sense. ( It can be added back in but this also takes a tweak )

           Indexing Service is not fully turned off even when dis-abled...i found this out the hard way. If i choose to turn something off that i don't want or need then doggone it it should turn off.

           Windows Updates.  A nag in the other flavors of Windows in Vista they become a royal pain until you get them under control. Even after installing over 700MG the first 2 days of operation imagine my suprise when SP1 wasn't even listed in my updates.

            Explorer layout. Maybe it's just me but i know where i store my Music, docs, games ad naseum etc. etc. etc. When did the world go topsy turvy and these became more important than actual file management ? ?

            Duplication of tasks/folders and data. There's about 20 different ways now to do what used to be one or 2 ways...also some apps i installed that were legacy apps wound up in both the x32 and x64 profile folders. I understand this may be neccessary for things to run properly but for someone who doesn't even get the basics of file management well i'd hate to work on their machine after about 10 months or so.
                                                                                       continued

[patio]

 
         Conclusions and Summary

Kudos

Major:  Performance. With all the eye-candy and visual enhancements they have worked into this release the crisp response time and general speed of things is indeed impressive...the memory management takes more load off of the CPU than i expected. I can run identical tasks under XP and CPU usage is anywhere from 10 to 35% higher than it is in Vista. Definitely an improvement.

           Graphics. It just handles them better period. I haven't even spent any time tweaking it in RivaTuner but i can tell you that switching back to an XP boot on the very same machine is a noticable difference. This category rates at least an A -

           New Features. From a complete System Backup (Business Pro and up ) to better Networking tools to Syncing between other PC's and Devices more intuitive Admin controls and Security there are plenty of features that have been added/improved since the release of XP. Built in encryption although i'd never use it is probably a plus for some as well. Plenty of things i've yet to play with so far...

           3DFlip. My absolute favorite new feature. A task bar icon...clik it and all windows including webpages and apps is stacked on the Desktop so you can see them all ...up/down arrows scroll you thru all of them...hit enter at the one you want and boom you're there. Excellent.

           Driver Support. Here is one area i didn't think would end up on this side of the ledger. After reading all the horror stories out there about support from vendors for 64bit Vista i was prepared to be dissappointed instead i've been pleasantly suprised. Out of all the equipment in this house and the 5 plus systems running so far there's only a 4 year old printer that has yet to not pass the driver test...and who cares. Printers are getting like BIC lighters these days...when they're empty you throw them away. I did however have a Colorado tape drive Qic80 format i haven't gotten to run. Overall i'd have to say i'm impressed.

           Overall Feel. Seems the more i use it the better it fits. Most of my gripes were cosmetic and can be remedied.

[patio]

Summary

This was intended as a primer on the initial install experience of Vista and my early observations. I guess alot more happened than i realised before i started typing. It wouldn't be either fair nor objective to judge an OS on 3 or 4 weeks of work so i'll leave this somewhat open ended.
However there's a few things i think i can state comfortably. The performance is there. Whenever i do testing i like to beat things up and see what they can take. Other than setting this up for Folding or running Prime on it i've given things at the OS level a pretty good throttling and Vista itself does not hiccup...at least i've yet to see it.
I also feel pretty comfortable saying that most of the bad things i've heard about Vista are from people who either didn't give it a fair chance...ran it under the recommended requirements or never ran it at all.

So far i like it much more than i expected and it's staying on the machine for some time to come.

Maybe those who fled initially might want to re-visit it for awhile...
Take Care.

patio.

[truenorth]

Patio, Thank you for the excellent review of your Vista O/S in your new computer. Most of my previous concerns (mainly about hardware compatibility issues and supposed never ending "do you want to?" interuptions and delays) seem to be dispelled by your account. However this "tweaking" you often refer to may be beyond the average users (me) ability to overcome as you obviously can. If i recollect you have 4GB of RAM in this new machine. That being so are you able to give an opinion as to what the minimum RAM requirement this O/S should be run with in order to enjoy both reasonable speed and efficiency. Not a bare minimum such as would allow the Vista software to run. truenorth

[patio]

Vista seems pretty comfortable with 2G of RAM.
Any more is a bonus.
It's optimisation of RAM is totally different than previous ver. of Windows prompting new users to post in forums asking " what's wrong with my machine" etc.
If it's there it will use most of it as efficiently as it can.

[Calum]

Nice review there patio.
I'm almost tempted to give Vista another chance on my machine ... it just seems odd that you're noticing the performance is great, whilst I was noticing the exact opposite.  Sure, I have a dual core and yours is a quad, but it was dog slow for me, it felt almost as if I was running with no drivers installed (which I wasn't of course).
The main problem I have is that Vista X64 doesn't like Rivatuner, because after SP1 it will not take unsigned drivers no matter what you whisper in its ear.  As that's a program that's always running for me I can't do without it.

[patio]

I've been hunting down a fix for the signed driver issue so i will definitely keep you posted on that.

Today though everything is getting wiped so i can test the built in Full PC backup feature....

Sometimes i can't leave well enough alone.

[Calum]

I've been hunting down a fix for the signed driver issue so i will definitely keep you posted on that.

Good luck with that, I searched for a few hours myself to see if I could dig up something, had no luck.  If you find anything I'd definitely be interested, one less problem I'd have.

[Broni]

You can easily bypass "Disable Driver Signature Enforcement" by installing ReadyDriverPlus from here: http://www.mydigitallife.info/2008/02/17/download-vista-tcpipsys-and-uac-auto-patcher-to-increase-tcp-connection-limit/ (half page down).
It works brilliantly. I use it, because I have modified tcpip.sys file.

[patio]

Somehow i knew you'd have something....

Which one though ?
Vista is not showing SP1 even though all updates have beeen run.

Thanx again...Great find !

[Broni]

What do you mean by which one?

[Broni]

http://www.tipandtrick.net/2008/permanently-turn-off-and-disable-64-bit-x64-windows-vista-forced-driver-signature-signing-with-readydriver-plus/
It says for 64-bit, but it applies to 32-bit, as well.

[patio]

I meant which tcp fix...there's about a dozen listed.

[Broni]

You don't need tcp/ip fix, unless you want to.
I have it, because, it makes my internet connection faster by getting rid of half-connection limitation.
You just need ReadyDriverPlus: http://www.tipandtrick.net/2008/permanently-turn-off-and-disable-64-bit-x64-windows-vista-forced-driver-signature-signing-with-readydriver-plus/
If you want to patch tcpip.sys, as well, you need to look at your tcpip.sys version, and apply appropriate patch. Patch version depends on tcpip.sys version.

[patio]

Gotcha......too much Christmas Ale last nite...i'm about as sharp as a marble right about now.
 

[Broni]

Not a problem, my friend

[patio]

Say bye for now...wiping the Vista install....

This is a test. This is only a test.
Had this been a real situation you would be happy with your existing VistaX64 install.
Are you sure you want to format ? ?

           

[Broni]

I'm sorry for your loss...LOL

[mcxeb52!]

what's the benefit of a 64 bit windows OS except for a faster system (more memory can be used by system) and they say native 64 bit programs seem to run faster on 64 bit systems.

Somehow I seem to like windows 7 for it's "look" .... don't know about its features but I like that taskbar redesign microsoft did to it.

[macdad-]

well hopefully once microsoft comes out with SP2 of Vista then the disk mangament will be better. Right now keeping my dad from buying a new computer with Vista on it, until we get a copy of XP. And he agree's(he's used XP before).

But great review Patio. especially on the in depth overview(not just the look). But im really glad that Vista is 64-Bit, since the new computer may have half-life, portal......and other memory eating games 
But i'm wondering about something, which do you think is better Vista Home Basic, Premium or Ultimate?
Or do you think that sticking with XP or 2000 is a good idea until SP2(of Vista) comes out(and has alot of fixes for the disk management)?

[Calum]

You can get Vista in 32 and 64 bit flavours, just the same as Linux and XP.
mcxeb52! - those are the benefits of a 64 bit system, all other things being equal.

[macdad-]

XP comes in a 64bit version? 
Well this is news to me! Crap i could just forget Vista entirely and goto XP.

[mcxeb52!]

Yes, XP has a 64 bit version. I have a 64 bit XP cd. But I don't go into 64 bit windows for the reason that 64 bit drivers may have issues and also the fact that 64 bit OS doesn't benefit me anyway.

[Calum]

XP comes in a 64bit version? 

It's not as well known as most other versions of Windows XP and Vista.
I believe it was designed more for workstation use than home users and was marketed as such, but with RAM getting much cheaper and especially since Vista a lot of people have migrated to it.
I'm hardcore, I was using it before Vista on my laptop, just because I could.
I'll also repeat what I've said before - on three entirely different computers with lots of different peripherals, I have yet to encounter a single driver issue, disregarding an absolutely ancient scanner that drivers for any OS were all but impossible to find.  Software issues were also limited to OS-limited programs, like XP Powertoys, some programs that integrate directly into Windows components such as explorer, and some older games.  Just like Vista itself (trying to tie this in vaguely with the actual topic of this thread) compatibility is nowhere near as bad as a lot of people make out.

[macdad-]

i guess, but atleast Vista isnt as bad as Windows ME, now that brings up alot of war stories(my old Dell rig had Windows ME on it)

[BC_Programmer]

i guess, but atleast Vista isnt as bad as Windows ME, now that brings up alot of war stories(my old Dell rig had Windows ME on it)

That's not much of a comparision; a million monkeys banging on keyboards would turn out ME in about 20 minutes. Unfortunately, monkeys don't know how to save, so by the time you get to their terminals to save the copy of windows they wrote, they've replaced it with shakespeare. But "I think the lady doth protest to much"...

[patio]

In my review of the Vista experience i intentionally set out to break things and take all it's features through their paces...
First victim was going to be the Full PC Backup built in to the OS.
I created a full backup and wiped the drive it was on and re-sized the partitions for a test.

Total failure and i'm a bit too steamed right now to finish this portion of the review....
More later.

[truenorth]

Patio, Maybe a good approach for the moment ,in order for you to ENJOY the season ,might be to just let it go until the New Year. With all the great assistance to the participants on the CH forums you continue to unselfishly provide it would pain us all to have you "steamed" at what is supposed to be a joyous time of the year. Best regards, truenorth