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Author Topic: RAID Problem  (Read 17465 times)

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Maksim

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    RAID Problem
    « on: December 06, 2008, 07:49:00 PM »
    I enabled Intel RAID Controller, in the BIOS and created a Array of 4 Hard Drives and each are 1 TB. The BIOS sees the 4 hard drives, the windows sees the RAID Controller in the Device manager, and Also The Inel Matrix Storage Console Software that comes with Intel's RAID driver. Sees them and also displays the array of 4 hard drives and that they are in RAID 5. After Initializing them in Intel's software i cannot see them in My Computer, Or the Disk Management, Like they are dissapeared. AFter deleting the Array of 4 hard drives computer sees them as individual hard drives. And i can use them. After i create the RAID 5 in the controllers BIOS, like before boot it says press CTRL + I and enter the configuration window. I create a RAID 5 array and cannot see the array of RAID 5 in the Disk Management. That being said here is a simple version of all of that. After creating a RAID 5, windows doesnt see them as indivudial hard drive so i can use them. After deleting the RAID 5 Array windows can see all 4 hard drives are individual drives. So could someone help. How to make it work, to make RAID 5 so i can use it in widnows. Ill be here everyday, and if you have questions. Ask. The Motherboard is DFI LanParty LT x38.
    « Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 08:46:57 PM by Maksim »

    Maksim

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      Re: RAID Problem
      « Reply #1 on: December 11, 2008, 08:37:55 PM »
      WOW, notihing? Must be a rare, rare problem

      JJ 3000



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      Re: RAID Problem
      « Reply #2 on: December 11, 2008, 10:40:03 PM »

       . After Initializing them in Intel's software i cannot see them in My Computer, Or the Disk Management, Like they are disappeared. That being said here is a simple version of all of that. After creating a RAID 5, windows doesn't see them as individual hard drive so i can use them. After deleting the RAID 5 Array windows can see all 4 hard drives are individual drives.

      That's how its supposed to work. RAID 5 distributes data and parity info, evenly, across all four of your hard drives. Raid 5 will effectively use one drive's worth of space for parity. If you have four 1TB drives, then the effective storage space should be 3TB. What does windows see as you're drive's capacity?

      Hardware based RAID is invisible to the operating system. If you wanted to do a software based RAID array, then you could use disk managemet to set it up. However, hardware RAID is a lot more reliable and easier to configure.
      « Last Edit: December 13, 2008, 03:55:03 AM by JJ 3000 »
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      Maksim

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        Re: RAID Problem
        « Reply #3 on: December 12, 2008, 05:13:23 PM »
        Thank you for the tip. I did configure it as a RAID 5 and the Intel RAID BIOS sees all 4 hard drives and after creating RAID 5 it says 3 TB is avaliable that we got covered. The hardware side of the computer sees the hard drives and even Intel BIOS configuration says they are in RAID 5 mode then i exit. With the RAID 5 created in the Intel RAID BIOS chipset, i go into windows and windows does not see the RAID at all i got to disk management I cannot see the RAID 5 it doesnt even show up. Like I have created a RAID 0 at home and it works, i nitialized under Disk Management it and created a new parition as NTFS, and walla it works, but at church it isnt working.

        Ok here is the simplified version. I installed the hard drives, with sata i enabled the RAID in the BIOS after restart of the computer it gave me option to enter Intels RAID Chipset configuration, I entered the setup and created a RAID 5 with my 4 1TB hard drives, after creating it, i exit the configuration window, system restarted and i went into windows, Windows did not say anything like found new hardware or nothing. I went to disc management and the RAID does not show up. I went to Device Manager and under ACSI and RAID there it says Intel ICH9R RAID ....... I dont remember, i opened it up and it says The device is working properly. Intel has its own software, Intel Matrix Storage Console, i open that up and it says RAID 5 everything is working ok. The software sees the RAID but windows does not.

        So baslicaly BIOS sees the Raid 5 Array but windows does not. All the chipset drivers are installed. We followed the manual and nothing came up. 

        Any help is greatly appriciated..

        BC_Programmer


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        Re: RAID Problem
        « Reply #4 on: December 12, 2008, 08:19:33 PM »
        that's what JJ said. If you set up RAID in hardware (BIOS), Windows will not see it.

        Hardware based RAID is invisible to the operating system. If you wanted to do a software based RAID array, then you could use disk managemet to set it up. However, hardware RAID is a lot more reliable and easier to configure.
        I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

        JJ 3000



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        Re: RAID Problem
        « Reply #5 on: December 12, 2008, 11:10:29 PM »
        Do want to have different partitions on that computer? I dont understand what the problem is.
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        Maksim

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          Re: RAID Problem
          « Reply #6 on: December 13, 2008, 11:49:48 AM »
          JJ then why is the point for hardware raid? How are you supposed to use it if JJ's answer stays true. You make hardware RAID and windows should see it as one hard drive, and then you can initialize it with windows. But i can't Windows does not see it. Software is ok, i tried it and it works. But what happens if windows crashes do I keep my info? or is it all lost.

          JJ the problem is, after creating a ARRAY of 4 hard drives in the Intel RAID BIOS, the status of RAID everything is normal. When booting into windows, windows should recognize all 4 hard drives as one hard drive and you can create a NTFS filesystem, but in my case it doesnt.
          The RAID is onboard if that helps.

          BC_Programmer


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          Re: RAID Problem
          « Reply #7 on: December 13, 2008, 03:30:47 PM »
          so when you've set up raid, you see no hard drives at all?

          reasons to stay away from software RAID is mainly performance. Any benefit from a striped set is essentially offset by the extra work the file-system driver has to do writing to multiple drives.

          hardware RAID, on the other hand, is done at the hardware level(not surprisingly).
          I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

          killerb255



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            Re: RAID Problem
            « Reply #8 on: December 13, 2008, 05:54:53 PM »
            Actually, we have two different issues here:

            1) RAID
            2) The dreaded 2 TB MBR limit.

            Let's address them separately

            1) RAID
            As everyone has said, Windows does not see the drives as individual drives.  It sees it as ONE. BIG. DRIVE. That's what RAID is: one big drive.

            RAID 0: Two drives acting like one big one.  For simplicity sake, if you had one pr0n video, half of it would be striped to one drive, the other half to the other (actually, it's more complicated than that, but I'm trying to keep it simple.  If one drive dies, all the data is gone.  Total usable capacity is the size of both drives.  So two 80 GB hard drives in RAID 0 = 1 160 GB RAID 0 array.

            RAID 1: Two drives acting like clones of each other, but seen as one big drive by Windows.  If one drive dies, the other drive has a copy of your data, and you can stick another drive in place of the dead one and rebuild the "mirror."  Total usable capacity is the size of one drive.  So two 80 GB hard drives in RAID 1 = 1 80 GB RAID 1 array.  The other 80 GB is a "cover your ***" drive.

            RAID 5: A minimum of three drives acting a lot like RAID 0 (striping your pr0n) and a little bit like RAID 1 (one drive dies, put another one in its place and you're safe--just hope that two drives don't die at the same time or the data's toast).  Total usable capacity is the size of all drives MINUS ONE.  In this case, four 1 TB hard drives in RAID 5 = 1 3 TB RAID 5 array.

            2) 2 TB MBR limit.

            In this case, we have another problem.  MBR disks have a limit of 2 TB.  Some RAID controllers will only allow you to make 2 TB arrays. 

            What do you do about this?

            If you're using Windows XP or anything older, not much.  You're going to have to partition and make sure one of your partitions don't exceed 2 TB. 

            If you're using Server 2003, Vista, or Server 2008, then you can format your drive array as a "GPT" disk.  GPT disks have the following caveats:

            1) Older operating systems can't see them.  They'll only see the protective MBR on the disk and read it as an unreadable 2 TB drive, even if it's more than 2 TB.

            2) You cannot BOOT to a GPT disk without a special motherboard.  Even with that special motherboard, Server 2003 can't boot to a GPT disk.  Vista and Server 2008 can, though.

            What I mean by "special motherboard" is a motherboard that doesn't have a BIOS.  It has what's called an "EFI":
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extensible_Firmware_Interface

            Only an EFI can boot to a GPT partition.

            ...and no, you can't have an MBR partition and a GPT partition on the same drive/array.  If your RAID controller allows you to create "virtual disks," then you could create one MBR virtual disk and one GPT virtual disk.
            Quote from: talontromper
            Part of the problem is most people don't generally deal with computer problems. So for most they think that close enough is good enough.

            BC_Programmer


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            Re: RAID Problem
            « Reply #9 on: December 13, 2008, 06:12:20 PM »
            GREAT info, killerb! I learn something new everyday  ;D
            I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

            killerb255



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              Re: RAID Problem
              « Reply #10 on: December 13, 2008, 06:40:43 PM »
              GREAT info, killerb! I learn something new everyday  ;D

              Thank you. :)

              Unfortunately, I learned the GPT info the hard way while setting up what the OP was trying to set up myself: four 1 TB drives in RAID 5.  It was for a new server for a client.  16 GB of RAM and Server 2003 Enterprise x64 as well.

              Eventually, we had to settle with a 2 TB partition for their ginormous SQL database and deal with GPT when we can slap four more drives in it and create a separate array.
              Quote from: talontromper
              Part of the problem is most people don't generally deal with computer problems. So for most they think that close enough is good enough.

              Maksim

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                Re: RAID Problem
                « Reply #11 on: December 13, 2008, 11:46:16 PM »
                Thanks for the help,

                so when you've set up raid, you see no hard drives at all?

                Yes BC Programmer, When I set up RAID 5 Windows does not see the hard drives at all, except when you go to Device manager, and expand disk drives list. And Intel's software matrix storage console 7.5 can see them but windows does not see them, therefore i cannot make a partition.

                Thanks a lot killerb, I took note about the 2 TB MBR
                MBR disks have a limit of 2 TB.  Some RAID controllers will only allow you to make 2 TB arrays 


                I tried making a RAID 10 which is (RAID 0+1) of all 4 hard drives, making them strip and mirror each other. Which from 4 TB it made a 2 TB hard drive. I went into windows and disk management and to my amusement, windows recognized them. I created a partition and it works.

                But see now I'm wasting 2 TB. So taking note of the 2 TB MBR max capacity. I restarted my computer and went into the Intel's RAID BIOS and created a RAID 5 and used only 3 Hard Drives  this time which meant it will be 2 TB using 1 TB as a spare. Actually creating them was like 1.863.0 MB. Not yet 2 TB. So I took one of the hard drives out of the array. Which made a 2 TB RAID 5 array. I booted into windows and went to disc management windows did not see them, except the hard drive i left out the 1 TB.

                So when creating a RAID 10 (RAID 0+1) using all 4 hard drives it made a 2 TB and Windows sees them in disk management and I can partition it, when creating a RAID 5 using only 3 Hard Drives, windows does not see them. So this is where we are right now.

                Also killerb I wanted to clarify. you said that if we install windows vista ultimate, i should be able to make a GPT? and use all 4 hard drives and make a RAID 5 and have 3 TB .  I just wanted to get that clear.

                By the way we have our operating system installed on a Raptor Hard drive 10,000 RPM Maxtor, so we are not going to boot a hard drive containing GPT.
                « Last Edit: December 14, 2008, 12:09:09 AM by Maksim »

                killerb255



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                  Re: RAID Problem
                  « Reply #12 on: December 14, 2008, 04:20:29 PM »
                  It sounds like you'd be safe with your array being formatted as GPT, since your boot partition is not on that array.

                  So yes, you would need Vista (any flavor--doesn't have to be Ultimate) to format as GPT and have 3 TB.  Remember, XP won't be able to read the data on the array, though.
                  Quote from: talontromper
                  Part of the problem is most people don't generally deal with computer problems. So for most they think that close enough is good enough.

                  Maksim

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                    Re: RAID Problem
                    « Reply #13 on: December 14, 2008, 06:27:40 PM »
                    Thanks killerb, for the information. What if we install XP x64. Will it be ok?

                    Also how do you format it as GPT? through disk management right?

                    Maksim

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                      Re: RAID Problem
                      « Reply #14 on: December 18, 2008, 12:21:04 AM »
                      Hello, Just an update. Thanks to all the information from killerb255 and other users. I thank you very much. What we have done is, we took killerb's advice. We installed Windows Vista Ultimate and formated the RAID5 with GPT under windows vista. It works, and we have to deal with the older software we use for our production, causing a few bugs. But other than that, it all works. Thanks again killerb255.

                      killerb255



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                        Re: RAID Problem
                        « Reply #15 on: December 18, 2008, 02:59:24 PM »
                        No problem. :)

                        BTW, XP x64 can see GPT as well:

                        http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/storage/GPT_FAQ.mspx

                        Sorry I didn't mention that earlier.  My experience with XP x64 is rather limited (I shouldn't be surprised, either, since XP x64 is actually a nerfed Server 2003 x64...)

                        Either way, I'm glad you got it all worked out!
                        Quote from: talontromper
                        Part of the problem is most people don't generally deal with computer problems. So for most they think that close enough is good enough.

                        patio

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                        Re: RAID Problem
                        « Reply #16 on: December 18, 2008, 07:55:47 PM »
                        So what are the imaging options on a GPT drive ? ?
                        I was unaware that Acronis hates it...
                        And i've been singing their praises awhile.
                        " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

                        killerb255



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                          Re: RAID Problem
                          « Reply #17 on: December 19, 2008, 09:39:30 AM »
                          Until Acronis catches up, we're pretty much limited to Symantec Ghost Solution Suite 2.5 (Ghost 11.5).

                          http://eval.symantec.com/mktginfo/downloads/GSS_2.0_Vista_FAQ_Partner.pdf

                          Vista/Server 2008's ImageX might be another option.  I haven't played around with it yet, though...

                          http://www.globalknowledge.com/training/whitepaperdetail.asp?pageid=502&wpid=241
                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Imaging_Format
                          Quote from: talontromper
                          Part of the problem is most people don't generally deal with computer problems. So for most they think that close enough is good enough.