iTunes clipping/skipping during playback

[tank03]

I've recently updated to the latest iTunes and find that during playback there is a slight delay every 5 to 10 seconds.  It's a very minute hesitation/hiccup in the playback but it is noticiable enough to make listening not worthwhile (and annoying as *censored*).

The song files play smoothly with Windows Media Player and Audacity, so I'm guessing that there is something about iTunes that's causing it.  I uninstalled the updated iTunes (ver eight) and reinstalled my original version (ver. 5) and found that the skip remains.  I've tried the very few suggestions found at the Apple site (update drivers, max hardware acceleration, etc) but nothing seems to help.

Anyone have any suggestions?   It's frustrating as heck since I had no playback issues with the previous version of iTunes, and now neither the old or the latest version plays smoothly.

System specs: Dell Dimension 3000, Win XP (service pack 3), 2.8 gh Intel Pent 4, 1 gb RAM, 40 gb and 160 gb Hard drives, SoundMAX Integrated Digital Audio.

[Zylstra]

Have you tried updating your sound card?

Also, did this machine previously have Vista on it, that you might have downgraded to XP?

Possible solutions/causes:
The sound card is out of date, try updating the sound card driver

Windows Update updated you to a sound card driver that was meant for Vista (though, the stubborn manufacturer didnt take the time to make sure Microsoft had the different XP and Vista versions), rolling back to the day before this happened in System Restore (or two days) may resolve this.

Another system change occurred. System Restore might be the solution to just going back, and then we can figure out what it did from there.

[tank03]

Thanks for the reply.

I've tried updating the sound card but I apparently have the latest driver installed already.  This machine was always an XP (it's five years old) and never had Vista loaded.

I used System Restore and went back a couple of days to when I knew things were stable.  It didn't make a difference; the annoying clipping is still present when playing iTunes.

As far as other system status, I did defrag the drive recently, though that didn't seem to have an effect on playing music at the time; it's only since I updated iTunes that I've had issues.  As I've said it's annoying because everything plays smoothly through other apps (Windows media, Audacity, etc.).

Should I be looking to buy a new sound card?

[Zylstra]

No, I dont think a new sound card would help you at all.

If anything, switching to Windows Media Player (or using something besides iTunes) would be better, still, I am sure you use iTunes for a reason, and thus, I shall continue to troubleshoot.

How much RAM does this computer have?
First, lets start up iTunes (no need to play music quite yet),
Press CTRL+ALT+DEL, and start the task manager. Click the Performance tab. Write down what is under Physical Memory, and your page file.

Not having enough RAM is a common cause of iTunes not being able to play songs correctly, iTunes is a very resource intensive program, and quite a hog of RAM from what I hear.


If its a RAM issue in specific, we can look into RAM upgrade options, and options for reducing the amount of programs running when your computer starts up so there is more free RAM.

[BC_Programmer]

another thing: I haven't used itunes, but with WMP on my old computer, it would play perfect- but, if I enabled the WOW effects, or other DSP effects, then I would experience the symptoms you've described (or worse).

perhaps you have some sort of DSP enabled?

[tank03]

Zylstra:
I have 1GB of RAM (updated from 512MB last year).  There seems to be adequate memory but since I'm ignorant about how to interpret the information provided by the Task Manager I've included a screen shot taken while iTunes was up and running.

Additionally, I've recently used Glary Utilities to manage the start-up options and I thought that was optimized.

If I haven't already done so, thanks for the replies and the effort to help sort me out.


BC_Programmer:
I apologise for my ignorance, but I have no idea what a WOW or DSP effect is, therefore I can't tell if I'm running any.  Thanks for the input though.

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[Zylstra]

Glary Utilities! Run Away!

Glary Utilities are a known, well, not exactly adware... not exactly good either.

What they do is lie about their software, Glary Utilities do little to nothing and call it good.

Free programs for managing startup items:
Click Start> Run> Type MSCONFIG press ENTER, and click the "Startup" tab, you can manage it there, or an easier interface and other utilities that really do work are available here:
www.ccleaner.com


But, I dont think Ccleaner would be able to fix anything right now, unless you wanted to go through startup items again, but, you have about 50% of your RAM free, which is fine.


To check for WOW and other audio effects (I am kind of going off the top of my head...) :
Go to Start> Control Panel
On the left hand menu, click "Classic View" if the control panel is not already in classic view.
(You can change it back later if you want)

Go to Sound

Under the Playback tab, doubleclick your "Speakers/Headphones" setting
Then click the "Enhancements" tab, check: "Disable All Enhancements"

See if iTunes works now.

[tank03]

Thanks for the tip about Glary, I've dumped that from my system and downloaded the CCleaner  that you (and MANY others) have recommended.

I disabled the enhancements but it made no difference in the quality if the playback.

I did discover one thing that I gave no notice to earlier.  I was playing a song via the Windows media player and it too started skipping and clipping like iTunes.  This was a new phenomenon as I had no issue with the WMP playback previously.  After a bit of experimenting I realized the following:

-All of my music files are saved to my "E" drive (160GB).  Due to the size of my music library I can't keep it on my main (and original) "C" drive (40GB). 

-I tried playing a music file from the "E" drive library with WMP and it skipped and clipped.  I copied that file to the "C" drive (pasted it onto the desktop) and it played fine.  Should I conclude that the issue really lies in the "E" hard-drive?

The "E" drive is a 160GB (7200RPM/8 MB cache)Western Digital hard drive that I had a local store install a couple of years ago when my orginal drive started to get close to capacity.  There are times in the past when I thought the "E" drive wasn't operating as quickly or smoothly as it should.  I was told by the store that it was due to a lag time of the drive getting up to speed.  Could the drive's performance be affecting the playback?  Is there a way to test the driveto determine if it is, in fact, not performing well?

Any thoughts on this?

[tank03]

Well, I think I've confirmed that the "E" drive is the issue with the follwoing experiment:

I uninstalled iTunes from the "E" drive and reinstalled a fresh copy to the "C" drive.  I loaded a few select song files (ones that I knew were clipping previously) into the iTunes music library folder located on the "C" drive. 

When I played these songs they played flawlessly with no clipping or skipping. 

When I directed iTunes to play songs located on the "E" drive they all clipped/skipped.

I have to conclude that there is an issue with either the "E" drive itself or how it operates within my system.

I'm open to suggestions if anyone knows how I could check this.

Thanks to all for the help thus far, it's greatly appreciated.

Moderator: Since my issue is seemingly not an "Apple" related issue should I abandon this thread and start a new topic in a more appropriate forum ("Hardware" perhaps?)??

[BC_Programmer]

interesting revelation- I had similar playback problems with certain hard drives in the past- it turned out to be bad sectors on the disk (generally a sign of impending failure).


If your hard drive is SATA, I don't know if this would work...)

There is one thing you could check. Determine wether the hard disk/IDE channel is using DMA.

Control Panel->System Icon

Hardware tab; Device Manager

Open the "IDE/ATA/ATAPI controllers" node.

There should be at least two items in it- Primary IDE channel, and Secondary IDE channel. With each one, right-click and select properties. in the dialog box presented, click the "advanced Settings" Tab.

Let us know the settings within for each channel, especially if any are set to a PIO mode.

[tank03]

These are the settings I found:

Primary IDE ch:

  device 0:
     Device Type: --
     Transfer Mode: "DMA if available"
     Current T.M.: Ultra DMA Mode 5

  device 1:
     Device Type:Auto Detection
     Transfer Mode: "DMA if available"
     Current T.M.: N/A

_______________________________________ ___________

Secondary IDE ch:

  device 0:
     Device Type: --
     Transfer Mode: "DMA if available"
     Current T.M.: Ultra DMA Mode 2

  device 1:
     Device Type:--
     Transfer Mode: "DMA if available"
     Current T.M.: PIO Mode


Thanks for the help, I hope that proves useful.

[BC_Programmer]

well, from what I can tell, it appears as if your main drive is using DMA.

the secondary channel is a bit harder to figure out, since we don't know wether the store set up your new drive as a "slave" (Device 1) or the master (device 0).

This is most perplexing. The source of your issue I suspect is with that lone "PIO mode". PIO is slower because it uses the computers processor for all data transfers- DMA essentially let's the devices do more of the work for themselves.

As far as I understand the ATA specification, if any device is using Programmed I/O, then both devices must use it. If  that is the case, your secondary hard drive is also using programmed I/O. I'd suggest forcing it to use DMA, but chances are XP has defaulted to PIO mode for a reason.

everytime the computer boots, when Windows XP is loading the drivers for IDE devices, it performs a quick test to determine if the mode can be used. In this case, the test failed. I know for the fact that particular hard drive can use DMA, as I have several of that model myself-

My diagnosis is the IDE cable. While the other device is using DMA successfully, it's possible it's on the closer plug, and the defect is present between the two plugs.


doing so involves opening the computer; since you don't appear comfortable doing so (as evidenced by getting the store to install your HD) I recommend you return to the same store and ask them to install an 80-pin ATA cable for your secondary drive and optical drive. Personally I think they simply rushed through the installation and made up an excuse as to why it's a bit slow (that "spin up" stuff they told you is total BS).

If I am right (bear in mind I have been wrong before) the drive will now be using DMA, and your symptoms should disappear.

Good luck, and remember to post back on what route you end up taking!

[tank03]

If you are willing to tolerate a few more questions,  I would ask the following just for my own clarification and education:

I've removed the cover and had a look at things.  I'm assuming the IDE cable is the flat duct-tape-like wire connecting the drives to the board.

The "C" drive has it's own IDE cable and slot on the board, as does the floppy drive (shows how old the machine is that it still has a floppy drive).

The CD/ROM and drive "E" share a cable.  The CD/ROM is orginal and it appears that the store simply added the "E" drive by splicing into this IDE cable and mounting the drive into the empty bay.  I've enclosed a pic of the cable in question with the CR/ROM and hard-drive disconnected.  The CD/ROM connected with the end input (apparently drive "0"?), and the hard-drive with the midway input (drive 1?).

Am I to conclude that this is the cable you believe is flawed?  Knowing my relative ignorance about this I suspect that this isn't something I could change/correct myself?

Thanks again for the help.

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[BC_Programmer]

I've removed the cover and had a look at things.  I'm assuming the IDE cable is the flat duct-tape-like wire connecting the drives to the board.

It is indeed.

The "C" drive has it's own IDE cable and slot on the board, as does the floppy drive (shows how old the machine is that it still has a floppy drive).

technically the Floppy drive cable your notice is not as wide- but that's not what we're interested in anyway.

The CD/ROM and drive "E" share a cable.  The CD/ROM is orginal and it appears that the store simply added the "E" drive by splicing into this IDE cable and mounting the drive into the empty bay.  I've enclosed a pic of the cable in question with the CR/ROM and hard-drive disconnected.  The CD/ROM connected with the end input (apparently drive "0"?), and the hard-drive with the midway input (drive 1?).

Actually, most IDE cables come with two connectors- they merely tacked the hard drive in as a slave to the optical drive.

You're quite right that that would be the cable I believe to be flawed- if you do replace the cable, be sure to get the "80-pin ATA" variety, just as you've got there now.

My theory was actually wrong, however- the hard drive is in the middle and having problems; however, the optical drive is on the end and running normally. Although it's still possible it's a cable issue, I'm not as sure anymore.


One thing you could try however, if your comfortable with it, is to switch the positions of the two drives on the cable; you shouldn't need to move the jumpers around for them to be properly detected and used this way.


I would also like to say your almost going about this like a professional would(logically)... if this is your first time working inside a computer, your doing very well 

[Zylstra]

This could be a case of a horribly fragmented drive as well...


Go to Start> Accessories> System Tools> Disk Defragmenter
Run that on all of your drives. It may take a few hours per drive.
This is something that should be run weekly, in my opinion, though I think my computer runs it daily.

Sometimes, especially if your drive is a bit slower, when a file is so scattered around, it can take too long for the drive to seek the individual sectors where parts of the files are located.
Defragmenter puts the files all back together in the same place.

[tank03]

I replaced the IDE cable and defragged the hard-drive.

The drive is still relatively slow and in PIO mode.

One thing I noticed is that the CR/ROM drive has it's jumper (after I spent some time reading what a jumper was) set to CS (for Cable Select?) and the "E" drive is set to "Slave".  Should one of these be set to "Master"?  If so, which one?  Or is this really not an issue or the cause of my issues?

Once again, the advice is enormously appreciated.  As annoying as this has been for me, I've learned quite a bit about my computer, and I thank you guys for helping out.

Cheers and Happy New Year!

[BC_Programmer]

One thing I noticed is that the CR/ROM drive has it's jumper (after I spent some time reading what a jumper was) set to CS (for Cable Select?) and the "E" drive is set to "Slave".  Should one of these be set to "Master"?  If so, which one?  Or is this really not an issue or the cause of my issues?

Ahh, that's a interesting tidbit; now we have something else to try.


"Cable Select" is usually set on both drives to configure them to assign themselves to master/slave based on their positions on the cable. The end would become master, and the middle would be Slave.

Try setting the CD-ROM drive to Master via the jumper, and see if that makes any difference.

Once again, the advice is enormously appreciated.  As annoying as this has been for me, I've learned quite a bit about my computer, and I thank you guys for helping out.

you're quite welcome. Personally, I've done the most learning in times of peril. (HD crashes) or my famous, "hmm, I wonder if it will go faster if I turn the power cable around". a loud sizzling noise, the breaker being tripped, and a smokey smell later, I discovered that it didn't.

[tank03]

Well, I've set the jumper on the CD/ROM to master and ensured the hardrive was set to slave and there has been no change. 

Additionally, I've tried all the recommedations found at the WesternDigital support site (i.e. uninstall drivers and reboot, ensure running XP service pack 3) without success.

I'm at a loss as to what to do next.  Perhaps there is no solution to my problem and it's time to pack it in? 

If anyone has anything further to suggest I'd be interested, but I'm starting to think that this may be beyond my meager abilties to solve.

[tank03]

I think I may have solved the problem.

In the interest of exploring and learning about how my machine operates, I entered the BIOS mode (never done that before) at startup and found various settings for the drives.  I noticed that on drive channel 2 the master was set to "CD/ROM" and the slave was set to "Off".  Taking a chance I set it to "Auto" and returned to Normal mode.

When I checked the properties of the IDE secondary channel using the Device Manager I noticed the current tranfer mode for the "E" drive changed from "PIO" to "UDMA 5".

I haven't yet tried the iTunes, but my "E" drive is now significantly faster than it ever was before.  It's the performance I was expecting , but never got, when I first had it installed.

Everything seems OK to me, but does anyone thinnk my solution may prove to be a bad idea in the long run?  Is there a reason it was set-up as it was previously?  Admittedly, I'm just poking around in the dark as I have no idea what any of these things really do so if you think I'm causing more harm then good, please let me know.

In the meantime, I'm off to test my iTunes and see how that runs.  I'll report back my findings.

Again, many thanks to those who have offered advice.  It was greatly appreciated.

[BC_Programmer]

hooray! looks like  you fixed it


the reason it was set was probably simply because the folks that installed it for you were slacking off. I love their little spin-up excuse though, since hard drives spin up the moment they get power (power management options notwithstanding).


Good sleuthing in the BIOS to solve your issue, though.


Not sure what the setting would mean, but if I had to guess I'd say the BIOS was basically treating it as a CD-ROM drive; why it wouldn't use a UDMA mode for a CD-ROM drive I haven't a clue.


It's nice to see threads have a happy ending

[tank03]

I'm exceptionally happy to report that everything (including the iTunes) is working flawlessly.

Apparently, that channel needed to be "turned on" via BIOS. 

Thanks for all the help, I've learned quite alot this past week.

Cheers!

[Sophie.annelies]

Hi, I'm also having this problem. I checked for answers on the Apple help forum and the only suggestion was to wait for a newer version.

I am running the most recent version of iTunes on Windows 7 Ultimate 64x, on a computer with 2gig of RAM. I assume my sound driver is up to date as I just recently reinstalled my OS.
I don't get this issue with Windows Media Player or any other media player on my computer. It also happens when I plug in speakers so yeah definitely iTunes.

I can't remember when I started having this issue, but I think it's only recently or I would've noticed earlier and done something about it. Perhaps it's the latest version of iTunes?