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Author Topic: Why am I using Vista?  (Read 14235 times)

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Accessless

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Why am I using Vista?
« on: August 12, 2009, 01:53:31 PM »
Just had a passing thought of why in the <censored> am I using this god awful OS? Let me just go though pros and cons:

Pro:
1. DirectX 10
2. Better file management (files become less fragmented)

Con:
1. Higher resource demands
2. Increased User optimisation (now even harder to find anything)
3. "revised & optimised" Document layout
4. Networking designed to be more difficult than Win98
5. Reduced Stability
6. "Improved" start menu (now harder to use than ever before)
7. non functional system defrag
8. Renamed system files (Add Remove Programs - Programs and Features)
9. Reduced backwards compatibility
10. Emulated DirectX 9 crashes
11. 2 or 3 times OS size (compared to XP)
12. Stupid aero themes (ooo I can see through my windows wooww)
13. IE 8 (increased exploitability)
14. Decreased user streamlining (browsing function now even harder (loss of window tabs))

Now typing that list has just made me relies that I 'tolerate' Vista. Please correct me by the way in case I missed anything. Is Windows 7 my salvation?

Why is the biblical word for the place for damned souls <censored>?
Back on good old fashioned Air cooling again.

hot dog

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Re: Why am I using Vista?
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2009, 04:48:31 PM »
Believe it or not, there are some advantages to using Vista, more than what you stated... but like everything it does have cons as well.

Other than the Pro's you listed (with the exception of better file management, which is a very general term), Vista includes Bit Locker, which enables you to encrypt your entire hard drive, as opposed to only being able to encrypt certain folders.  Only thing is, you'll need to buy either Ultimate or Enterprise edition to get it...

Vista also has the auto. search feature located in the Start menu..which is in all versions of Vista.

Parental controls, built into Vista...

Shadow copy, where Vista makes periodic backups of system files.. If you overwrite a file and don't have a backup copy of that file, you can right click on the existing file and select "restore previous versions", to get the old file back..

If you like aesthetics, Vista's got the Aero glass..  provided you've got the hardware capabilities to use it...........although it does put a toll on your battery life, for laptop users..

Vista has a double-sided firewall........XP has only a single sided..

All version of Vista include NTFS permissions, where on XP, only the the "professional" edition includes ntfs permissions


for starters, those are some more advantages...

smeezekitty

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Re: Why am I using Vista?
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2009, 05:10:17 PM »
i hate most of those features and disable them
i kind of like the start menu search though

hot dog

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Re: Why am I using Vista?
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2009, 06:33:46 PM »
i hate most of those features and disable them
i kind of like the start menu search though

Apparently, Windows Defender is another advantage, but I keep it disabled because I find it virtually useless...    Even when I've got it set to inform me when/if it finds something, I never hear a peep out of it...  ;)   Not to mention, that I've never once found any spyware with it running manual scans

patio

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Re: Why am I using Vista?
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2009, 06:35:23 PM »
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2. Better file management (files become less fragmented)

I'd like to know what this means...
   
 
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Re: Why am I using Vista?
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2009, 09:25:26 PM »
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1. Higher resource demands
Almost as if it was a new version of windows... strange!

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2. Increased User optimisation (now even harder to find anything)
have no idea what this means. I rather like the new Search feature... running cmd as admin has become a few quick keystrokes. Windows key, "cmd" Application key, down arrow, enter. Additionally I've always opened explorer windows directly with the run dialog (as in, Windows key+R, "explorer D:\vbproj\vb\bcfile\bcsearch" or whatnot), and that still works with Vista.

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3. "revised & optimised" Document layout
this sounds more like it's referring to Office 2007. That's not a Vista Feature.
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4. Networking designed to be more difficult than Win98

Umm... ok.... I had my vista laptop networked with my old PC and it had NT 3.51 installed... It's rather easy to use, IMO. At least now there is a progress bar for network.
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5. Reduced Stability

complete and utter lie. my laptop has now been on for over a month without a reboot, and no problems. my older XP machine, while fairly reliable, seems to encounter video issues after about a week or so. Obviously the claim will be to "blame the display driver"... why blame other stuff in XP but the OS in Vista?
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6. "Improved" start menu (now harder to use than ever before)

OMG! It's different! Same tired old argument from XP's introduction. Point made even more blunt by the fact that this "improved" start menu can be reverted to classic just as XP's before it. But of course the XP start menu didn't get criticized at all! don't be ridiculous!
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7. non functional system defrag
works fine here.
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8. Renamed system files (Add Remove Programs - Programs and Features)

this is a con? please, your grabbing at straws here. Why no gripes about how XP changed the name of "network neighborhood"? Oh of course. that's XP.
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9. Reduced backwards compatibility
personally I think this is a plus. programs that don't work because of this are simply badly programmed. Blame the developers, not the OS that decided that enforcing a rule that is explicitly stated in the API documentation was a good idea.
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10. Emulated DirectX 9 crashes

I'm starting to think your PC is having problems... not Vista...
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11. 2 or 3 times OS size (compared to XP)
compare XP (around 1.5 GB) to Windows 98, or Windows 95. same relationship. same tired old argument. same lack of any real point.
Quote
12. Stupid aero themes (ooo I can see through my windows wooww)
yes, the "fisher-price" luna theme was SOOOO much better. Of course it was. XP can do no wrong just as Windows 98 could do no wrong before it.
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13. IE 8 (increased exploitability)
True... but I'm trying to figure out what this has to do with vista. IE8 will install on XP too. Does that make it a con for XP? of course not. It's XP.
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14. Decreased user streamlining (browsing function now even harder (loss of window tabs))
haven't a clue what you mean here.


In summary, your really just echoing the exact same things windows 98 users griped about XP. OMG... look at that awful blue taskbar. Of course just as you have conveniently forgotten that Aero is easily disabled so too did they not realize that the windows Classic theme is easy to get to.

I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

patio

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Re: Why am I using Vista?
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2009, 09:29:07 PM »
Nicely Done...and thorough.

          8)
   
 
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BC_Programmer


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Re: Why am I using Vista?
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2009, 09:31:39 PM »
I'll admit I was premature in some of my early posts before I had even used Vista...

Reading about it definitely made it seem Evil... but using it was altogether different. Of course in my case my hardware was actually reliable so I didn't get "Dx9 emulated crashes"... although I'm pretty sure that the crashes were real, rather then emulated.

In either case... DX9 isn't "emulated" on Vista. That's why you literally need to install DX 9.0c for a DX 9 or earlier program to run.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

patio

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Re: Why am I using Vista?
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2009, 09:36:41 PM »
Well the point you made months and months ago about Vista bashers rings true every time i hear this sad old tale...
I believe you stated those that hate Vista used it less than a month and walked away...

I'm impressed a laptop has not been re-booted in a month though...impressive at the least.
   
 
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BC_Programmer


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Re: Why am I using Vista?
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2009, 09:48:08 PM »
It's been folding the whole time. Sometimes I forget it's there... or On...

I've been using it less since the new build; so I'm not shutting off F&H at all. So I'm not folding on this machine yet, but It has indirectly increased my contribution.

And like I say- it wasn't just with Vista- The same "types" appeared with every new windows Release. If memory serves the windows 95 explorer was a complete memory hog. requiring such a vast amount of memory! (8MB) I mean, sure, it basically brought the whole concept of the "right-click" to the forefront and really paved the way for the various shell enhancements in future OS versions, but I mean- c'mon- 8MB of RAM? if I may quote from an ancient article from near windows 95's release:

"If the world is going to become one were an OS requires 8MB of RAM... I don't want to live in that world"

any guesses as to wether that person fulfilled their promise and committed suicide when 95 was released?  ;D

And of course, I was no better then they were.  I wasn't quite so vocal because I had a nagging feeling that, hmm, maybe I should try it before saying it blows...

In this instance Accessless is however using Vista, and it appears that many of the issues they are having are either easily resolvable (don't use aero, use the classic start menu) related to completely different programs (Office 2007 document layout) or probably related to driver/hardware issues (DX9 crashes).

The "compatibility" point really hits the spot though- in one of my recent posts I described in detail the particulars of how much work MS goes to- even in Vista- to get old, crappy, badly written programs to work properly. All in the name of the consumer. Some may say that the original developer should do this work- but why? They have the consumers money. On the other hand, if MS was to NOT add these compatibility fixes, then it's the New OS to blame for "breaking" the program/game, when in fact it was broken to begin with and the older API architecture was a little more lenient.

A prime example being one of my very own programs, which inexplicibly crashed in Vista. I finally traced the problem to one function call that, after reading the documentation, I had been calling wrong all along. But of course I am supposed to blame Vista.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

Accessless

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Re: Why am I using Vista?
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2009, 05:16:21 AM »
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1. Higher resource demands
Almost as if it was a new version of windows... strange!
Iím sure that resource demands could be reduced with the removal of useless features and functions
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2. Increased User optimisation (now even harder to find anything)
I have no idea what this means. I rather like the new Search feature... running cmd as admin has become a few quick keystrokes. Windows key, "cmd" Application key, down arrow, enter. Additionally I've always opened explorer windows directly with the run dialog (as in, Windows key+R, "explorer D:\vbproj\vb\bcfile\bcsearch" or whatnot), and that still works with Vista.
Yes run has always been in every Windows, but now you have to add it manually to the start bar. Increased User Optimisation, I will admit is a general moan about the reorganisation of Windowsí file system. Good for you, memorising all those file names and locations.
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3. "Revised & Optimised" Document layout
This sounds more like it's referring to Office 2007. That's not a Vista Feature.
Office 2007 is the illegitimate offspring of OS10 and Vista, raised by the evil hand of Microsoft customer support team. Itís goal in life to ruin decades of IT MS Office training around the world. But I digress, back to Vista... Iím referring to the Userís personal file layout, apparently all my pictures, videos & music are not my documents and should come under such a folder.
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4. Networking designed to be more difficult than Win98
Umm... ok.... I had my vista laptop networked with my old PC and it had NT 3.51 installed... It's rather easy to use, IMO. At least now there is a progress bar for network.
I have a laptop on Vista and a computer on Vista. Can I access files between them? No. Never have and have given up trying. I am being totally serious when I say that I have had an easier time networking ME to XP. Oh and donít get me started on the useless Vista loading bars that are about as accurate as the Windows 98 file transfer percentage bars. All they do is provide morons with a pretty green bar to look at and assume that their computer is doing something. (See reply to point ď1.Ē about useless wastes of resources).
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5. Reduced Stability
A complete and utter lie, my laptop has now been on for over a month without a reboot, and no problems. My older XP machine, while fairly reliable, seems to encounter video issues after about a week or so. Obviously the claim will be to "blame the display driver"... why blame other stuff in XP but the OS in Vista?
I never had the issue of reduced performance until a reboot is performed before (usually after programs lock up and I canít get stuff done). Iím loving the fact that program processes get stuck on and cannot be disabled. (I had this in XP as well but this is a Vista gripe not an XP gripe) XD. I agree with Patio on this you deserve a medal for that laptop.
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6. "Improved" start menu (now harder to use than ever before)
OMG! It's different! Same tired old argument from XP's introduction. Point made even blunter by the fact that this "improved" start menu can be reverted to classic just as XP's before it. But of course the XP start menu didn't get criticized at all! Donít be ridiculous!
I actually like everything about the XP start menu, although I will admit initial complaints. I also like the Vista start menu layout... until I go into programs and oh no! Microsoft has removed the flowing folders. Now folders have to be clicked on and the contents drop down filling your menu even more. Yes I have to revert to the ĎClassicí start menu, I would rather have the Vista one IF it was practically functional.
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7. Non functional system defrag
Works fine here.
I should really thank Vista for this actually because if itís defrag worked then I would never have discovered IO Bit Smart Defrag. (Download it, itís good): http://www.iobit.com/
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8. Renamed system files (Add Remove Programs - Programs and Features)
This is a con? Please, youíre grabbing at straws here. Why no gripes about how XP changed the name of "network neighbourhood"? Oh of course, that's XP.
I would like to make a point here of when did I proclaim my love of XP? Probably because the name change was minor and un noticeable, that and I donít have XP anymore. How many hours of your life have you spent looking for a file or program because Microsoft renamed it?
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9. Reduced backwards compatibility
Personally I think this is a plus. Programs that don't work because of this are simply badly programmed. Blame the developers, not the OS that decided that enforcing a rule that is explicitly stated in the API documentation was a good idea.
So your saying that programs developed before Vista are badly programmed because the developers could not see into the future and predict the alterations to the API documentation that Microsoft were going to make?
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10. Emulated DirectX 9 crashes
I'm starting to think your PC is having problems... not Vista...
No, asides Vista being rubbish it works fine (never crashes on Linux). Iím not the only one that has problems with DirectX on Vista. C&C3 has problems with it and thatís a fairly new game.
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11. 2 or 3 times OS size (compared to XP)
Compare XP (around 1.5 GB) to Windows 98, or Windows 95. Same relationship, same tired old argument, same lack of any real point.
Windows 95 Ė 350Mb (0.35Gb), Windows 98 Ė 500Mb (0.5Gb), Windows ME- 700Mb (0.7Gb), Windows XP Ė 1500Mb (1.5Gb), Windows Vista Ė 15000Mb (15Gb). So thatís:
Windows Vista Ė 15000Mb
Win95 Ė Win98 ~50% increase
Win98 Ė Win ME ~40% increase
Win ME Ė Win XP ~100% increase
Win XP Ė Vista ~ 1000% increase
Oh my god! I didnít even know that it was that bad! Iím shocked. Windows XP and Vista figures taken from: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sysreqs/pro.mspx & http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-vista/get/system-requirements.aspx respectively. Previous Windows versions from personal experience.
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12. Stupid aero themes (ooo I can see through my windows wooww)
Yes, the "fisher-price" Luna theme was SOOOO much better. Of course it was. XP can do no wrong just as Windows 98 could do no wrong before it.

Windows 98 was alright, limited but alright. You might as well say that propeller planes could do no wrong until jets were invented. XP was bad then they fixed it (SP2). Vista is bad then they invented Windows 7. Is Windows 7 the fix to Vista?
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13. IE 8 (increased exploitability)
True... but I'm trying to figure out what this has to do with Vista. IE8 will install on XP too. Does that make it a con for XP? Of course not. It's XP.
Microsoft allowed something new on an older version of Windows? Incredible! I thought they only let the new stuff loose on the newest versions to force people to upgrade. For the millionth time I do not want XPís babies!
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14. Decreased user streamlining (browsing function now even harder (loss of window tabs))
Haven't a clue what you mean here.
Remember those lovely tabs you use to get in settings windows, like for example when you used to right click your desktop and click properties? You used to get a window with the tabs: Background, Appearance, Screen saver, etc.
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In summary, youíre really just echoing the exact same things windows 98 users griped about XP. OMG... look at that awful blue taskbar. Of course just as you have conveniently forgotten that Aero is easily disabled so too did they not realize that the windows Classic theme is easy to get to.
To repeat myself, I like the task bar (although I did gripe about the XP one at first) just not the functionality of the menus. Iíll give you the fact that I could turn the themes off and not complain about them wasting resources.


Back on good old fashioned Air cooling again.

hot dog

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Re: Why am I using Vista?
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2009, 05:20:12 AM »
oh dear,... this is gonna get nasty... ::)

Accessless

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Re: Why am I using Vista?
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2009, 05:52:54 AM »
Nah probably just very long.
Back on good old fashioned Air cooling again.

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Re: Why am I using Vista?
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2009, 06:48:36 AM »
oh dear,... this is gonna get nasty... ::)

Don't know why you would think that...they've been nothing but thorough...
   
 
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hot dog

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Re: Why am I using Vista?
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2009, 06:59:52 AM »
Don't know why you would think that...they've been nothing but thorough...

just having a little fun....

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Re: Why am I using Vista?
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2009, 10:00:05 AM »
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Iím sure that resource demands could be reduced with the removal of useless features and functions

I cannot deny that- but really, the question is- what is "useless"? many of the eye candy enhancements, obviously- and I'm sure there is a lot of other stuff, too. But what one person considers useless may be another persons main application- take the removal of movie maker- Which somebody at MS considered "useless" enough to remove- The same applies to most other features as well- Remove it- somebody will whine about it ;) That's what the options are for when you install Windows, though  :P


If I may draw another parallel, to Windows 95- it introduced a number of "new features"- namely the "3d-look" for windows themselves- but this came at a resource and performance hit. Is this feature then, a "useless" one? It really doesn't add to the function- why not just draw all windows white?

Because it isn't appealing at all, probably. They decided that the trade-off between resources and look was justified- not everybody agreed at the time- and since Vista's UI requirements- especially the use of D3D at the desktop, which makes for some interesting effects but a large amount of resources used. On the other hand- these features can be disabled. It would have been nice if they had allowed for Luna themes as the "vista Basic" type, but I suppose that might have amounted to an admittance of failure.




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So your saying that programs developed before Vista are badly programmed because the developers could not see into the future and predict the alterations to the API documentation that Microsoft were going to make?

No. that's not what I mean at all.

Microsoft Never changed the documentation- they change the functions to only allow what the documentation specifies.

To mount a specific example- Handles.

A Handle is a 32-bit integer (16-bit in Windows  3.1) that is used for almost everything- window handles for windows, buttons, listboxes, etc, file handles, and so on and so forth- anyway- the API documentation has never made any claims into the "internal Format" of the value (I mean, let's face it- it's a long integer. nothing special about that).


However, windows 9x had a quirk- although it's handles were 32-bit, it only used the lower 16-bits- after all, it was in a sense a partly 16-bit OS in many ways.

MS never documented this. it just referred to it as a handle and left it at that.

However, one day, some clever programmer observed this behaviour, and decided, "hey, I can jam my own data into the upper 16-bits!" aqnd they did so. and it worked.

And then they try it on NT... (or upgrade to XP...) and it crashes. horribly. a completely different program get's activated, window drawing occurs on random other windows... etc. "now what in the heckleson could be going on?" they ask themselves.

Well, Windows NT actually uses the entire 32-bits for storing handle data... what they basically did was overwrite part of the handle value with their own, changing it and making it refer to something completely different, or more then likely simply make the handle invalid.

Now, MS never documented this- They probably never expected that anybody would actually shove their own data into a private handle value... but they did.

Now, this is obviously referring to bygone issues, essentially relic from the switch from 16-bit to 32-bit, but programmers do some really funky stuff, and think that because it works in say, windows 95, that it'll work elsewhere.

Here are some interesting blog posts:

http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2003/12/24/45779.aspx

http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2007/09/07/4796929.aspx

Now, this isn't to say, that the compatibility issues are never microsoft fault- I cannot recall any specific examples but a few functions in some OS's didn't meet the API docs at all- and programmers (the clever little beasts) found out, for example, that they might need to cast one of the parameters to a Long, or change the function header they use to get it working.

Now- these workarounds work fine, but then, MS fixes the issue- and suddenly the workarounds are causing the issue. (although, in all fairness if MS finds a bug like that with a public function they general add (yet another) application compatibility hack, so the "workaround" programs- or at least, the popular ones - still work.


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Yes run has always been in every Windows, but now you have to add it manually to the start bar. Increased User Optimisation, I will admit is a general moan about the reorganisation of Windowsí file system. Good for you, memorising all those file names and locations.
ahh, I see what you mean. Actually, I've always used Windows key+R, rather then the run item on the start menu, ever since win98SE, so I suppose I'm simply not affected by this change as much as others might. I've tinkered with the "search" box and found it pretty neat in some respects- having started various programs/documents with it- when the full name just wouldn't come in the run dialog. But- on the other hand, it sort of requires the indexing service and I've never particularly been fond of that. Even with this PC, where the only visible effect is the HD activity- it just feels... wrong- to have the HD being accessed so frequently. And also that it's practically invisible... same story with windows defender, took me a while to figure out exactly what was accessing the disk (I suspected malware, actually, since it was practically invisible...) but it turned out to be windows defender.

I've memorized the locations because I use them so much- D:\VBPROJ has been my Projects folder since I used windows 3.1 ;)... although come to think of it I'm not sure why I need an additional "VB" folder within that. best not to think about that.


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Office 2007 is the illegitimate offspring of OS10 and Vista, raised by the evil hand of Microsoft customer support team. Itís goal in life to ruin decades of IT MS Office training around the world. But I digress, back to Vista... Iím referring to the Userís personal file layout, apparently all my pictures, videos & music are not my documents and should come under such a folder.

I can't say I've ever used Office 2007... the ribbon is a neat idea, but I think they're trying to hard. At the very least there should have been an "old style" type option, because even if the new UI was easier to use overall after learning it- there was still the "learning it" part. And as you've said it practically through decades of Office training/learning- since likely the first word for windows- out the window, it really should have been more thoroughly planned.

But I think, I see what your referring to, is how the Pictures and whatnot folders are within the profile folder as opposed to within the "documents" folder. Really I can't say I've dealt with this whole "my documents" stuff ever. For me it's basically a bunch of empty folders that file dialogs start at, has been that way since I used windows 98. (although recently with XP I changed the "my documents" folder to point to D:\VBPROJ, which may explain the sudden appearance of "my pictures" and "my music" folders within it).. Honestly I've hated the whole idea of a "my documents" folder since it was introduced with windows 95... this change doesn't really phase me, since I've never liked it to begin with. I'll put my documents where I want to, *censored* ;D)

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I have a laptop on Vista and a computer on Vista. Can I access files between them? No. Never have and have given up trying. I am being totally serious when I say that I have had an easier time networking ME to XP. Oh and donít get me started on the useless Vista loading bars that are about as accurate as the Windows 98 file transfer percentage bars. All they do is provide morons with a pretty green bar to look at and assume that their computer is doing something. (See reply to point ď1.Ē about useless wastes of resources).
hmm, that's actually kind of weird- I had to tweak my XP install to get it networking with my Vista laptop but my new build didn't really have any problems communicating with my laptop. Although  I won't say it was a "breeze" to setup, there was definitely some guesswork involved (namely, "now *censored* did I call the workgroup again?") and the whole issue where it insisted I go through this whoel song and dance to setup a folder share (something which also existed with XP's silly little "simple file sharing" option...
as far as the progress bars in the Location bar are concerned, I've found them pretty accurate, at least for viewing network computers. Only been in a few folders with pictures and whatnot... and it was a bit jerky at times but for the most part seemed to reflect the progress. I'm not sure if comparing it to win 9x's copy progress bars is really fair :P

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I never had the issue of reduced performance until a reboot is performed before (usually after programs lock up and I canít get stuff done). Iím loving the fact that program processes get stuck on and cannot be disabled. (I had this in XP as well but this is a Vista gripe not an XP gripe) XD. I agree with Patio on this you deserve a medal for that laptop.

heh, actually I got home this morning and it had rebooted from windows update. Well there goes my world record!  :P

Come to think of it, I haven't had a PC hard-lockup on me since... well actually it was my Windows 3.1 laptop last month. I think the system board failed. heh, went to boot it it would stop right when it was about to show the prompt and say "divide error" and hang. Because that made perfect sense, lol. I have had programs crash, but for the most part it's Visual Basic, and it's my fault.

Quote
I actually like everything about the XP start menu, although I will admit initial complaints. I also like the Vista start menu layout... until I go into programs and oh no! Microsoft has removed the flowing folders. Now folders have to be clicked on and the contents drop down filling your menu even more. Yes I have to revert to the ĎClassicí start menu, I would rather have the Vista one IF it was practically functional.

hmm, definitely a point there, and I cannot say that I find that feature to be a sound UI decision. I preferred the pop-up menu idea as well, myself. I think they're just trying to encourage people to use the Search bar, since it's so much harder to find stuff on the start menu otherwise :P.

Quote
No, asides Vista being rubbish it works fine (never crashes on Linux). Iím not the only one that has problems with DirectX on Vista. C&C3 has problems with it and thatís a fairly new game.

Well, I never have. Obviously there are going to be issues on some peoples PCs various driver and hardware issues (in your case not hardware, given Linux works fine). I've personally been quite impressed with the stability of both my laptop and now desktop with Vista, (well, aside from Crysis crashing after 30-40 minutes... but I believe that's related to my graphics card). None of my older games seem to have any issues, though. Including Need for speed:High stakes :D

Quote
I should really thank Vista for this actually because if itís defrag worked then I would never have discovered IO Bit Smart Defrag. (Download it, itís good): http://www.iobit.com/

I'll admit it. I lied. I never defragment. So to say "it works fine here" was a lie. I apologize. I was making assumptions. I should have said- "it Might work fine here". But really... Dead serious... rarely defragment ever. One of the few things that we're supposed to do frequently that I practically never do. That and I often just toss files into the root directory, with the intent, "oh I'll organize them later".... 5 years later, and 4 PCs after, I still have a copy of the Duke3d "user.con" in the root folder of D:\. Hey, I'll get to it eventually. I probably should delete it... But it's a piece of history now! A heritage file.... I couldn't!  ;D

Quote
Windows 95 Ė 350Mb (0.35Gb), Windows 98 Ė 500Mb (0.5Gb), Windows ME- 700Mb (0.7Gb), Windows XP Ė 1500Mb (1.5Gb), Windows Vista Ė 15000Mb (15Gb). So thatís:
Windows Vista Ė 15000Mb
Win95 Ė Win98 ~50% increase
Win98 Ė Win ME ~40% increase
Win ME Ė Win XP ~100% increase
Win XP Ė Vista ~ 1000% increase

Obviously each PC will have a different amount- but we're forgetting windows 3.1, which generally used about 15MB- so that to windows 95 was around %2333. Although I think 350MB is a bit big for a windows 95 install. I think windows 95 could fit in around 150MB, maybe less. it was a very lean OS... well, before IE4 anyway.

Quote
Microsoft allowed something new on an older version of Windows? Incredible! I thought they only let the new stuff loose on the newest versions to force people to upgrade. For the millionth time I do not want XPís babies!

hee hee. Sorry about that. Most of that wasn't directed at you personally but rather the common cavalier attitude that basically calls out "save XP!".

Quote
Remember those lovely tabs you use to get in settings windows, like for example when you used to right click your desktop and click properties? You used to get a window with the tabs: Background, Appearance, Screen saver, etc.

Hmm, ahh, I see what you mean. really I have mixed feeling about it- at the very least they could have removed the tab from the top for each one. It's almost like their teasing us. "yeah, we could have put all the tabs here, but we'll just put one. nyah nyah."

Hmm, actually, it might be possible to show, say display properties, with all the tabs, with good ol' rundll32.





oh dear,... this is gonna get nasty... ::)

Silly Silly Blockhead- this is a discussion, not an argument or flame war. Accessless makes some very good points.

I think one thing, that I hope we can all agree on, is that microsoft is at least trying to come up with old ideas- trying to improve what they have, and really nobody can say that's bad. And some parts of Vista are a bit- well, odd. and lacking, and whatnot- but I think it was important that MS make these bold attempts to redefine their OS- XP was pretty bold in some areas, and people complained at first- but Vista revamped a LOT of stuff- some of it worked- some of it didn't.
I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

Accessless

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Re: Why am I using Vista?
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2009, 11:18:27 AM »
Right bare with me here, I'm a bit rubbish rubbish with programming. So people used to write programs and add stuff after the first 16-bits which MS left blank. (I expect to see a similar thing going from 32-bit to 64). How is it programmers fault unless MS said that they were going to use those last 16 bits and the programmers were just being short sited?

You have to admit though that MS 3.1 to 95 was a bit of a jump. I mean did 3.1 actually do anything apart from being a visual aid to what was basically DOS? Windows Vista is not that far ahead of XP, not 1000% anyway. On the other hand 3.1 to Win95 is about 6000% progress, I'm surprised that they managed to compress it that much.

I think that all my OS sizes should be the maximum install size w/o expansion packs.

Can you believe that I forgot to mention Vista's security paranoia? "Did you know that you just clicked on this program?" "Will you allow this program you just opened to proceed?" "Someone has disabled your start up items!". This was one of the first things that I disabled and replaced.

And I must admit lying about IE8. I started using Firefox when they were still on IE6. I only occasionally open IE (Internet Exploiter) to disable the many adware programs and search bars that it accumulates.
Back on good old fashioned Air cooling again.

Gen0



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    Re: Why am I using Vista?
    « Reply #18 on: August 13, 2009, 07:27:01 PM »
    UAC kinda pissed me off at first too, and I disabled it- but after  I reinstalled  (to get all the preinstalled cruft out... it was REALLY slow with all the crap toshiba thought I needed.... manufacturers may be partly responsible for all the problems many people using Vista experience... but It has, in a way, prevented several issues. Programs I download that shouldn't need Administrator access asking for it raises a red flag for me... and several times I've discovered that that program was a trojan. Of course if I used AV software I would have been warned as well, but I've never been able to swallow the hit from using Antivirus software. the main annoyance for me is getting command prompt to run as admin.... Windows-Key+R and cmd gives me a basically useless prompt. But as I said before I've gotten that down to a fairly fluid motion using the search bar, so I guess it's good for something.  ;D


    Quote
    Right bare with me here, I'm a bit rubbish rubbish with programming. So people used to write programs and add stuff after the first 16-bits which MS left blank. (I expect to see a similar thing going from 32-bit to 64). How is it programmers fault unless MS said that they were going to use those last 16 bits and the programmers were just being short sited?
    It's the programmers fault- because MS never said, "this part is always blank. use it as you want." it was never documented. Some observant nerd noticed it and, instead of using up an entire 16-bytes to, you know, allocate their own space, they decided to use the handle to store their own crap. In a way, this would be akin to if you had to forward a package of mail every month or so, and discovered that half toe package was blank- so you open up the package and shoveyour own crap in there and send it off. Then one day you find it full, so you actually remove half the contents to put your own stuff in there. needless to say the recipient has no idea where their stuff is, and why half of the box is filled with possum carcasses.  ;D It's analogous to noticing that, say, the second and third digits always appear to be 0, so why not shove our own numbers in there?  :P


    3.1 wasn't what I'd call a Full Operating System... but that's why it was marketed as an operating environment :) I think the 64-bit transition is going much smoother, since like 16-bit before it you can still run 32-bit programs in the VDM.


    Also, I wouldn't say that vista uses 15GB, I did a maximum install of Ultimate fairly recently and my windows folder is around 8GB. pretty large jump, but I think the "recommended disk space" quotes from MS take other programs into account, too. Then again, my XP Windows Folder is around 3 GB, so it's still almost double, and the XP wasn't quite so fresh.

    I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

    Accessless

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    Re: Why am I using Vista?
    « Reply #19 on: August 14, 2009, 04:14:11 AM »
    I still don't see how its the programmers fault if MS never stated that they were going to use that left over space. Although saying that I supposed it was a bit retarded not to relies that they would eventually use it.

    I've never had a company installed OS, well except the laptops but I just instantly start deleting the rubbish they send as soon as I get the things. Oh well you can't blame companies for doing this for people that don't understand that computers need programs to do things.

    I just checked my windows folder. Windows has been installed for about a year now... 22.4Gb. If I didn't have a 931Gb hard drive then I would be offended. Does anyone remember the days when you could get by on a 1Gb hard drive and 3Gb was an insane size that could never be filled?
    Back on good old fashioned Air cooling again.

    Mulreay

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    Re: Why am I using Vista?
    « Reply #20 on: August 14, 2009, 07:17:05 AM »
    I just checked my windows folder. Windows has been installed for about a year now... 22.4Gb. If I didn't have a 931Gb hard drive then I would be offended. Does anyone remember the days when you could get by on a 1Gb hard drive and 3Gb was an insane size that could never be filled?

    I had a 13gb HDD with a 450ghz CPU my boss at work said that that was a waste and what will you ever use that kind of power for. That was back in... 1999 I think.

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    Re: Why am I using Vista?
    « Reply #21 on: August 14, 2009, 09:23:46 AM »
    I still don't see how its the programmers fault if MS never stated that they were going to use that left over space. Although saying that I supposed it was a bit retarded not to relies that they would eventually use it.

    It was reserved- programmers do the same thing with function parameters that are literally called "reserved" and state "this parameter must be null"... then another version of windows might add some useful feature that takes up that parameter (this is good, because if they didn't "reserve" the parameter, then everybody would need to recompile their applications... although, come to think of it, they would probably just create an "Ex" version of the function) anyway, once it get's a use, suddenly all these programmers who were using the parameter for god knows what  can't figure out why the function does goofy things.

    Actually, a better example is the reserved members of a structure, not reserved parameters.

    The thing regarding the hi-order word being empty in the 32-bit handle- is that if MS was to explicitly say, "do not use the hi order word of this value for your own purposes" they'd have to add all sorts of other idiot-proofing type of statements. Like, "do not pass a FILETIME structure to the GetSystemTime() function. You can force it, but don't. it won't work. Likewise, don't pass a SYSTEMTIME structure into the GetFileTime() Routine for the same reason."

    Also- with the handle issue, especially with hWnds (window handles) where this was used the most- they might have an excuse, if there wasn't an entire set of functions for storing extra bits of data using the handle (setProp and getProp).

    In fact, a Handle is really a pointer to a Structure, but the structure MS is referencing is undocumented, and not declared in any of the windows headers. This is actually fora very good reason- if they document it, they have to support it and make sure that future versions of windows are compatible and whatnot. Instead, they keep the internal structure undocumented, but have plenty of handy functions for accessing the data within the structure. This way they can reorganize the structure (as I'm fairly certain they will have done for 64-bit) with no ill-effects to applications.



    I used to have a 40Mhz 386 with a 50MB HD running windows 3.1. Windows 3.1 consumed about 9 MB of that space- that's around 18% of the total disk size. Now, with my 698GB drive, Windows consumes 19.8 GB... and I think that would include some shadow copies and whatnot, that's around 2%. In some ways an unfair comparison, but in other ways it isn't- consider the huge leap in CPU- (my quad core at 2.33 Ghz for each core compared to the 40Mhz 386 is, directly calculated, over 58 thousand times faster then it. it has 8GB of RAM, which is exactly 1024 times as much as the 8MB... considered to be gobs.. that the 386 had. Not to mention the leaps in video and sound hardware- namely the switch from CPU-processed graphics pushed through a fairly basic VGA adapter and beeps and boops to Video cards with the ability to paint billions of triangles in a frame -  with time left over to apply post-processing effects - and 5.1 surround sound. Now it stands to reason that at some point an OS should be designed to take advantage of this hardware- Vista is an attempt to take a step in this direction, namely with it's use of accelerated 3-D on the desktop- and Windows 7 does nothing different here. -  in addition to keeping memory from being idle with "superfetch" which in some ways is an extension of the prefetch cache used by XP.

    So In many ways it "takes advantage" of the new features in a modern, up to date PC. Unfortunately it doesn't really degrade well for PCs at or near it's minimum requirements, which is one of the things MS tried to tackle with Windows 7.
    I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

    kpac

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    Re: Why am I using Vista?
    « Reply #22 on: August 14, 2009, 09:37:13 AM »
    Quote
    Now, with my 698GB drive, Windows consumes 19.8 GB..
    My Windows folder is 11.8 GB.

    Quote
    Windows has been installed for about a year now... 22.4Gb. If I didn't have a 931Gb hard drive then I would be offended. Does anyone remember the days when you could get by on a 1Gb hard drive and 3Gb was an insane size that could never be filled?
    That's exactly the thing. HDDs are getting bigger and better, enabling Microsoft to create bigger and better OSs.

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    Re: Why am I using Vista?
    « Reply #23 on: August 14, 2009, 10:33:23 AM »
    My Windows folder is 11.8 GB.
    That's exactly the thing. HDDs are getting bigger and better, enabling Microsoft to create bigger and better OSs.


    Exactly nothing wrong with Vista I use it and well... no problems. 3yrs not one single re-install.

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    Re: Why am I using Vista?
    « Reply #24 on: August 14, 2009, 10:34:33 AM »
    hey, there's a 5 page minimum post size!  :P
    I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

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    Re: Why am I using Vista?
    « Reply #25 on: August 14, 2009, 10:36:55 AM »
    hey, there's a 5 page minimum post size!  :P

    Lol I just did'nt have that much to say...  ;D

    Wade2462



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      Re: Why am I using Vista?
      « Reply #26 on: August 17, 2009, 11:01:12 PM »
      for program compatibility seeing how xps going to go obsolete soon :(

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      Re: Why am I using Vista?
      « Reply #27 on: August 17, 2009, 11:13:09 PM »
      for program compatibility seeing how xps going to go obsolete soon :(


      ???
      I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

      Wade2462



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        Re: Why am I using Vista?
        « Reply #28 on: August 17, 2009, 11:14:53 PM »
        Xp is in extended updates now i dont see xp living much longer even though its great.

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        Re: Why am I using Vista?
        « Reply #29 on: August 17, 2009, 11:20:41 PM »
        Xp is in extended updates now i dont see xp living much longer even though its great.

         ::)

        It's going to be around for a while yet. Not sure what that would have to do with compatibility.
        I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

        Wade2462



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          Re: Why am I using Vista?
          « Reply #30 on: August 18, 2009, 12:14:27 AM »
          I hope your right
          but windows 8 is on the horizon its planned for 2012
          and having to support xp vista 7 and 8 will be a load of work

          BC_Programmer


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          Re: Why am I using Vista?
          « Reply #31 on: August 18, 2009, 12:29:49 AM »

          and having to support xp vista 7 and 8 will be a load of work

          No more then supporting windows 3.1, 95, and NT simultaneously- and XP,Vista, 7 and 8 will likely be more similar then we realize.

          right now- I can make a program Vista compatible and it will still run on XP, so for now it's more programming for the highest version, and then making selective changes for different versions- for example, some parts of my program use Vista Exclusive functions- before it tries it checks the version- and if it's not enough it calls my custom procedure that does the same thing for XP and earlier. Really it's just a matter of checking before using new features... a lot of programmers forget to, though...
          I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

          Wade2462



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            Re: Why am I using Vista?
            « Reply #32 on: August 18, 2009, 12:31:22 AM »
            right on

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            Re: Why am I using Vista?
            « Reply #33 on: August 18, 2009, 03:02:31 AM »
            As long as I am here:

            You know, your pro's and con's of Vista are very similar to what a lot of people (including myself) originally thought of XP.

            I hated XP because it was so weird. One of our old forum members (I think it was GX1_Man, who has been back on a few times recently) used to call it a "Fisher Price" theme.
            (Missed the reference? Fisher Price: http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&hl=en&sa=1&q=fisher+price&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g10&start=0 )
            Also, the newer computers were not compatible with our LTP scanners, and our old (OLD) printers.
            I have software that does not run on XP that ran on 98.

            Many programs now will not work simply because the operating system version has changed, and the installation requirement detection software for the program never included future versions of Windows.
            Now, Vista does have some problems. They should have tweaked it better when they made it, and spent more time on it.

            Check into Windows 7, it's really Vista but much more worked out -- and a lot of listening to users complaints.

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            Re: Why am I using Vista?
            « Reply #34 on: August 18, 2009, 07:08:31 AM »
            If you want to run and test Win7 the RC is still available for DLoad...but you better hurry...i think there's less than a week left to do so.
               
             
            " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

            blitz



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              Re: Why am I using Vista?
              « Reply #35 on: August 20, 2009, 08:07:20 AM »
              mmmm too long for me to even reach the bottom line but hey I got a good vista here and if you wanna remove something use revo uninstaller it can destroy everything left from the uninstalled program ;Dand easy tooo
              Stupidity doesn't came because one intended but because man need to learn and try to feel how to fail

              Accessless

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              Re: Why am I using Vista?
              « Reply #36 on: August 20, 2009, 01:34:08 PM »
              Just installed Windows 7... 100% better. It's like installing SP2 on XP but better!
              Back on good old fashioned Air cooling again.

              Accessless

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              Re: Why am I using Vista?
              « Reply #37 on: August 21, 2009, 03:40:22 AM »
              How long does this trail last anyway? No one seemed to say anything.
              Back on good old fashioned Air cooling again.

              patio

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              Re: Why am I using Vista?
              « Reply #38 on: August 21, 2009, 05:15:34 AM »
              If it's the BETA you will know right away because it shuts itself off for 2 hours each day at random times...
              If it's the RC (Release Candidate) you have til May of next year until it starts doing what's described above...a month later it's completely dead.
                 
               
              " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

              Accessless

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              Re: Why am I using Vista?
              « Reply #39 on: August 21, 2009, 08:57:22 AM »
              If it's the BETA you will know right away because it shuts itself off for 2 hours each day at random times...
              If it's the RC (Release Candidate) you have til May of next year until it starts doing what's described above...a month later it's completely dead.

              Is there any way to check rather than see if I get hasled?
              Back on good old fashioned Air cooling again.

              patio

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              Re: Why am I using Vista?
              « Reply #40 on: August 21, 2009, 09:01:36 AM »
              Let me get to my machine that has it installed...
                 
               
              " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

              patio

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              Re: Why am I using Vista?
              « Reply #41 on: August 21, 2009, 09:08:37 AM »
              At the bottom of the Start menu in the search box type in winver and hit Enter...

              You can also tell by the hash #'s on the file you DLoaded if you care to post it...

              I'm still running the Beta side by side with the RC as i want to see if i can figure out where the timeout switches are and how they work...strictly for research though.
                 
               
              " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

              Accessless

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              Re: Why am I using Vista?
              « Reply #42 on: August 21, 2009, 11:37:48 AM »
              I've just discovered that MS is intentionally contributing to world pollution! Apparently they are not allowing Full keys to be used to bring 7RC up to full. So you have to uninstall your copy of 7RC, buy a new key and CD, then reinstall.
              Back on good old fashioned Air cooling again.

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              Re: Why am I using Vista?
              « Reply #43 on: August 21, 2009, 11:43:10 AM »
              *censored* them! And they STILL don't support CGA!

              it wouldn't make any sense to have a new key bring the release candidate to full. Think about it. That's like saying there should be a key for windows 95 that brings it up to windows 98.
              I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

              Accessless

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              Re: Why am I using Vista?
              « Reply #44 on: August 21, 2009, 03:35:36 PM »
              Yes but we're not talking about two completely different OS's here. It doesn't make sense that they should not make the trial version upgradable to a full version. That's like saying: "No, now that you have Vista Premium you will have to use your new CD and reinstall for Vista Ultimate.

              Bloody Vista, I've lost my curser now...
              Back on good old fashioned Air cooling again.

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              Re: Why am I using Vista?
              « Reply #45 on: August 21, 2009, 03:37:54 PM »
              Bloody Vista, I've lost my curser now...

              I think I've seen it, there was a curser heading south past the liquor store earlier.
              Do You Think When You Act Or Just Act Like Youíre Thinking?

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              Re: Why am I using Vista?
              « Reply #46 on: August 21, 2009, 03:49:16 PM »
              Access this was by design...
              The BETA and RC project was the most open in their history...millions of legal DLoads...
              Can't control that with a simple activation key.

              Anyways there are ways around the clean install ...if you need more info PM me.
                 
               
              " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

              smeezekitty

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              Re: Why am I using Vista?
              « Reply #47 on: August 21, 2009, 05:31:07 PM »
              i just thought of an awesome feature of vista
              the ability to change the volume of programs individuly
              so i can mute firefox so i dont have to listen to audio ads
              but can still listen to music

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              Re: Why am I using Vista?
              « Reply #48 on: August 22, 2009, 08:38:03 AM »
              i just thought of an awesome feature of vista
              the ability to change the volume of programs individuly
              so i can mute firefox so i dont have to listen to audio ads
              but can still listen to music

              you mean, you just found it, right?  ;D
              I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

              smeezekitty

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              Re: Why am I using Vista?
              « Reply #49 on: August 22, 2009, 11:09:05 AM »
              yes

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              Re: Why am I using Vista?
              « Reply #50 on: August 24, 2009, 10:17:13 AM »
              Access this was by design...
              The BETA and RC project was the most open in their history...millions of legal DLoads...
              Can't control that with a simple activation key.

              Anyways there are ways around the clean install ...if you need more info PM me.

              Nah it's fine, Win7 is installed on my 80Gb Test hard drive. So I would need a reinstall anyway, if not just to get my test drive back.

              Why is it called Windows 7 Anyway?

              1. Windows 1.0
              2. Windows 2.0
              3. Windows 2.1x
              4. Windows 3.0
              5. Windows 3.1
              6. Windows NT 3.5
              7. Windows NT 3.51
              8. Windows 95
              9. Windows NT 4
              10. Windows 98
              11. Windows ME
              12. Windows 2000
              13. Windows XP
              14. Windows Vista
              15. Windows 7

              *censored*? Why call it Windows 7? It's clearly number 15 unless Microsoft can only remember as far back as Win95. Even then Win2000 is part of the NT family so why count 2000 and none of the previous NT models? Unless they're counting Win3.1 instead but then they are still forgeting 4 previous versions.
              Back on good old fashioned Air cooling again.

              BC_Programmer


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              Re: Why am I using Vista?
              « Reply #51 on: August 24, 2009, 10:41:00 AM »
              Quote
              1. Windows 1.0
              2. Windows 2.0
              3. Windows 2.1x
              4. Windows 3.0
              5. Windows 3.1
              6. Windows NT 3.5
              7. Windows NT 3.51
              8. Windows 95
              9. Windows NT 4
              10. Windows 98
              11. Windows ME
              12. Windows 2000
              13. Windows XP
              14. Windows Vista
              15. Windows 7


              they have two separate lines.

              windows 1,2,3.0,3.1,3.11,95 (4.0),98(4.1.1998), 98SE (4.1.2222) and ME (4.90.3000) are based off the same codebase.

              Windows NT 3.1, 3.5,3.51, 4.0, 5 (windows 2000) 5.1 (windows XP) and 6.0 (Windows Vista) are based off the NT codebase.

              Version numbers don't transcend multiple codebases.

              so in general what we have are 7 versions,of windows NT, before windows 7. however, since windows Vista is 6.0 windows 7 can easily be called version 7. (although in actuality I believe it's version number is 6.1)


              I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

              smeezekitty

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              Re: Why am I using Vista?
              « Reply #52 on: August 24, 2009, 11:06:21 AM »
              i think MS didnt count the early crap versions of nt and 2000
              and 98SE may not count because it was still win98

              Mulreay

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              Re: Why am I using Vista?
              « Reply #53 on: August 24, 2009, 11:26:59 AM »
              i think MS didnt count the early crap versions of nt and 2000

              I bet they did!!

              BC_Programmer


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              Re: Why am I using Vista?
              « Reply #54 on: August 24, 2009, 11:29:09 AM »
              All the NT versions are counted. Windows Vista is 6.0, 7 is what comes after 6.

              however the internal version I believe is 6.1, but that sounds to "techie" to some of their target market, so they needed a whole number instead. (also a lot of programs check wether Aero is available by seeing if the majorversion equals 6.. needless to say 6 is not equal to 7 and that would have caused a lot of problems across the board.
              I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

              killerb255



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                Re: Why am I using Vista?
                « Reply #55 on: August 28, 2009, 09:02:01 AM »
                If it's the BETA you will know right away because it shuts itself off for 2 hours each day at random times...
                If it's the RC (Release Candidate) you have til May of next year until it starts doing what's described above...a month later it's completely dead.

                I'm actually running the RTM version--perfectly legal, as I have a technet subscription and my employer is a Microsoft Gold Certified Partner. :)

                I must say, as much as I think Vista has come along and fixed a lot of its initial problems between two Service Packs, Windows 7, IMO, is still that much better!!

                XP Mode (XPM) is icing on the cake!!

                All the NT versions are counted. Windows Vista is 6.0, 7 is what comes after 6.

                however the internal version I believe is 6.1, but that sounds to "techie" to some of their target market, so they needed a whole number instead. (also a lot of programs check wether Aero is available by seeing if the majorversion equals 6.. needless to say 6 is not equal to 7 and that would have caused a lot of problems across the board.

                Yep.  Windows 7 is NT 6.1. 

                ...even more confusing will be if NT 7.0 becomes Windows 8...
                Quote from: talontromper
                Part of the problem is most people don't generally deal with computer problems. So for most they think that close enough is good enough.

                patio

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                Re: Why am I using Vista?
                « Reply #56 on: August 28, 2009, 09:28:44 AM »
                I think I've seen it, there was a curser heading south past the liquor store earlier.

                That was just someone swearing out loud...he's looking for a cursor...

                                8)
                   
                 
                " Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist should have his head examined. "

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                Re: Why am I using Vista?
                « Reply #57 on: September 03, 2009, 11:44:18 AM »
                No I actually lost my cursor. But all is well now because Vista died on me.
                Back on good old fashioned Air cooling again.

                smeezekitty

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                Re: Why am I using Vista?
                « Reply #58 on: September 03, 2009, 12:18:35 PM »
                All the NT versions are counted. Windows Vista is 6.0, 7 is what comes after 6.

                however the internal version I believe is 6.1, but that sounds to "techie" to some of their target market, so they needed a whole number instead. (also a lot of programs check wether Aero is available by seeing if the majorversion equals 6.. needless to say 6 is not equal to 7 and that would have caused a lot of problems across the board.

                name one app that needs areo

                Hankster58



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                  Re: Why am I using Vista?
                  « Reply #59 on: September 04, 2009, 09:53:42 PM »
                  Umm, sport, you forgot one!!! Windows for Workgroups 3.11 !!!! so isn't it 16??? LOL!!


                  1. Windows 1.0
                  2. Windows 2.0
                  3. Windows 2.1x
                  4. Windows 3.0
                  5. Windows 3.1
                  6. Windows NT 3.5
                  7. Windows NT 3.51
                  8. Windows 95
                  9. Windows NT 4
                  10. Windows 98
                  11. Windows ME
                  12. Windows 2000
                  13. Windows XP
                  14. Windows Vista
                  15. Windows 7

                  BC_Programmer


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                  Re: Why am I using Vista?
                  « Reply #60 on: September 04, 2009, 09:57:09 PM »
                  Umm, sport, you forgot one!!! Windows for Workgroups 3.11 !!!! so isn't it 16??? LOL!!


                  1. Windows 1.0
                  2. Windows 2.0
                  3. Windows 2.1x
                  4. Windows 3.0
                  5. Windows 3.1
                  6. Windows NT 3.5
                  7. Windows NT 3.51
                  8. Windows 95
                  9. Windows NT 4
                  10. Windows 98
                  11. Windows ME
                  12. Windows 2000
                  13. Windows XP
                  14. Windows Vista
                  15. Windows 7


                  No. I already covered this. You'll also notice I didn't neglect to enter 3.11 into my listing :P

                  Windows for workgroups was not an NT OS.
                  they have two separate lines.

                  windows 1,2,3.0,3.1,3.11,95 (4.0),98(4.1.1998), 98SE (4.1.2222) and ME (4.90.3000) are based off the same codebase.

                  Windows NT 3.1, 3.5,3.51, 4.0, 5 (windows 2000) 5.1 (windows XP) and 6.0 (Windows Vista) are based off the NT codebase.

                  Version numbers don't transcend multiple codebases.

                  so in general what we have are 7 versions,of windows NT, before windows 7. however, since windows Vista is 6.0 windows 7 can easily be called version 7. (although in actuality I believe it's version number is 6.1)



                  I was trying to dereference Null Pointers before it was cool.

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                  Re: Why am I using Vista?
                  « Reply #61 on: September 08, 2009, 07:02:34 AM »
                  You're right I saw my Windows version listed somewhere on my computer as 6.1
                  Back on good old fashioned Air cooling again.