Win 98 and USB use

[truenorth]

I have decided to resurrect a couple of older win98 PC's. Without troubling you with all the gory details it took some time before i could sort out a number of problems on the one I'm currently trying to work on. Blank screens(black),Continuous single beep at start up as a couple of examples. However due to knowledge gained over the years from my participation in CH forums plus a bit of Google searching i seem to have everything (except one item) solved. My O/S is win98se. AMD K6. 160MB RAM. Total USB ports= 2 x2.0 ports (both on rear of tower). At some earlier time i had USB connectability on this computer as the drivers for a Trendnet USB wireless router are still on it. There are no faults in "device manager". When i was using the wireless router previously my own written instructions (obviously to avoid some kind of problem) were "never install usb router until computer fully boots" ;"always remove usb router before shutting down computer". Now i do know that often in Win98 it is necessary to go into the BIOS and ensure the USB is "enabled" as apparently the default setting is often "disabled". I have gone through all of the BIOS and there is nothing that appears as evident to USB that i can see. I have tried both the same Trendnet router and 2 different flash drives. None are detected in "my computer". I must have the ability to get on line in order to update a variety of things. No error messages. No new hardware found. Suggestions please.truenorth
P.S. In case it's relevant;flash drives do NOT illuminate,but router DOES.

[Allan]

I'm sorry truenorth, I'm have a tough time getting through your post. What exactly is the question?

[truenorth]

Allan, Tried to supply all possible factors--maybe too much. USB ports not working. Things i have done. truenorth

[Allan]

Any errors in Device Manager?

[truenorth]

Allan, That was mentioned in original post--but no.truenorth

[soybean]

You're going to need to get USB drivers for the flash drives, if you can find them.  Win 98SE simply won't automatically recognize many USB devices the way later versions of Windows will.  Visit the website of the flash drive manufacturer.  Years ago, I got a driver from PNY for a flash drive so that I could use it with Win 98SE.  But, you may not be able to get a driver for many flash drives now.  The flash drive makers just aren't supporting Win 98 anymore.

By the way, are you sure those USB ports on that box are 2.0 USB?  I'd bet they are USB 1.1.

[truenorth]

Soybean.Thank's for the input. Will look into the "drivers" issue.However remember the drivers and software for the router ARE INSTALLED and the result is the same.truenorth

[soybean]

Well, I'd bet this would solve the problem: SYBA PCI USB 2.0 4+1 shared port controller card Model SD-VIA-5U

[truenorth]

soybean, Have not had a chance yet to have a look at your link--but will soon as i post this. Since your previous i did some searching re the USB flash "drivers" issue. I found this site and verified my version as 98SE and downloaded the drivers to a floppy (obviously on another computer). Followed the instructions and installed them to the 98SE computer. Tried all 3 same USB devices. No change. Now I'm off to look at your link.truenorth
http://www.technical-assistance.co.uk/kb/usbmsd98.php

Soybean, As fate would have it i do have one of those cards sitting idle. So if no other option is brought forth by other members i shall try that route and keep you informed. truenorth

[BC_Programmer]

I cannot be certain if it will help your specific situation, but you could try the unofficial service pack for win98SE.

In either case; do you see the USB root hub in device manager?

[WillyW]

From my bookmarks:
http://www.usbman.com/win98seusbguide.htm

just in case there is some helpful info there.

[truenorth]

BC & Willy, Thanks guys. I will have a look at this Unofficial Service pack in the near future. If i go that route i will need to download it from another computer. Will it fit on a floppy (kinda doubt it as service packs seem generally to be quite large.)? While i was waiting for more input from members i decided to plug in the other win 98SE computer. Makes the one with the USB issue seem like a picnic. Oh well enough for today. I'll get back to them shortly. Thanks all for the input--i'll keep you informed.truenorth

[Computer_Commando]

AMD K6 is gonna be USB 1.1
The Unofficial Win98 Service Pack will probably not have drivers for the flash drives.
Even if the manufacturer says they have them, many times they don't work either.
3rd party drivers sometimes work better.  I've battled this issue in Win98SE, too many times to count.

[BC_Programmer]

The Unofficial Win98 Service Pack will probably not have drivers for the flash drives.

 It has a generic USB mass storage driver that works for any flash drive.

[Computer_Commando]

That may be.  However, we have 2 identical PNY flash drives, purchased at the same time, 1 works with Win98SE and the other one does not work.  Looking through the semi-transparent case, they seem to be slightly different, but they have exactly the same part number printed on the case.  None of the PNY drivers are any help.  All I'm saying is USB with Win98:  hope for the best and expect the worst.

[BC_Programmer]

The reason USB doesn't work as well as it does with 2000 and XP is simply because there was no provision for device classes; well, that's a lie... there was, but the only ones at the time were pretty much keyboards and mice- HID devices. Flash drives were pretty much just invented at the time; this is why every company pretty much has to make their own driver; there was no abstraction of a generic "Storage device" class, so it's basically just a USB device.

I believe windows ME fixed this; it is no longer up to the driver to understand the device, but the device's job to understand the driver. (turns out that almost every mass-storage device did this already with draft specs)

the Generic Mass Storage Driver (Come to think of it, I'm not 100% sure it was included in the unofficial SP, I might have downloaded separately) either way, there is one available. (maybe it was this one?

Now, of course it's not flawless, I've had issues with hot-plugging and sometimes it takes a few tries before I realize that windows 98 doesn't make the beep-boop sound like XP and open explorer myself, but aside from that it has worked quite well for me.

regarding actually getting these onto the target PC, only thing I can think of is to burn a CD-R or split the file onto floppy disks.

[Computer_Commando]

That's the one I used, too.  Worked on all devices except that one PNY.

[truenorth]

CC & BC,Thanks guys and very good input. Not very encouraging though. I have definitely come to the conclusion that this is an O/S created issue. As you undoubtedly noted from my earlier post i DID FIND a driver for the supposed "fix on 98SE" but that it did not work. However given that it is probably an O/S issue i believe that dooms soybean's alternative hardware solution to be doomed as well. New PCI usb port card will not remove the overriding issue of the O/S i would think?
BC No the USB root hub does not appear in device manager. I will try the "this one" link and see if it does anything--will advise.

[BC_Programmer]

BC No the USB root hub does not appear in device manager. I will try the "this one" link and see if it does anything--will advise.

Ahh, well there's the problem. It's not necessarily a issue with the OS but rather the fact  that the OS isn't even aware of the existence of the USB connectors.

you could try using the Add New Hardware wizard. with any luck it will detect it and install automatically.

[patio]

The Unofficial Win98 Service Pak was a 3 year project and could very well solve this.